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[Oddduck]

3DS had facial recognition for Face Raiders (it could tell if you were a young male or female etc etc).

3DS had Suspend game and multitasking.

Also Tekken producer talked about looking at strategy guides while playing your game.

And we already saw video chat for the Wii U in a previous E3 video.

Those are very believable for Wii U.

 

[BlackJace]

IdeaMan posted some rumor info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38001100&postcount=14359

Cool thanks.

 

[MWCShay]

How is being an extreme outlier on either end a good thing? Either being underpowered like the Wii was this gen or ,what seems to be manifesting, overpowered like the "next" Xbox is looking to be?

Regardless of what MS does in Japan, it is almost guaranteed to be a joke salewise. Which alienates any Japanese developer, that wants to sell console games in Japan still. Or any other developer from anywhere for that matter.

I could see Nintendo doing it because, they make hardware to sell 1st party games. MS loves to brag about being selling 3rd party games though. How does that help 3rd parties looking to make cross platform games to cover rising cost?

Is the superior graphics pretty much going to be their trump card? Like the uPad will be what Nintendo is selling? I honestly confused about this strategy.

 

[Ormberg]

Well I only have 2 options to choose in that post but I honestly think it will be bigger.

disheartening to say the least, for a variety of reasons

 

[Plinko]

Well of course, just look at the original Wii or what Kinect did for Xbox sales. But I still want someone to just put out a stupidly monstrous system.

I don't. Developers will keep raising costs until it kills the industry.

However, I absolutely look forward to the next Microsoft system. I owned all three this current generation but am just about done with Sony's consoles. They have only one exclusive that I like (Ratchet and Clank) and I enjoy the Vita enough to say I'll be sticking with that instead. I love Kinect and look forward to seeing what MS puts in the next iteration of the peripheral.

The new super-powerful Xbox, Wii U, and my mid-range PC will be more than enough.

 

[Plinko]

disheartening to say the least, for a variety of reasons

I don't see why. The Wii to PS3/360 gap was MUCH larger.

 

[ASIS]

Well I only have 2 options to choose in that post but I honestly think it will be bigger.

I don't understand, are you basing this off an educated guess or actual info about all next gen consoles?

 

[Log4Girlz]

How is being an extreme outlier on either end a good thing? Either being underpowered like the Wii was this gen or ,what seems to be manifesting, overpowered like the "next" Xbox is looking to be?

Regardless of what MS does in Japan, it is almost guaranteed to be a joke salewise. Which alienates any Japanese developer, that wants to sell console games in Japan still. Or any other developer from anywhere for that matter.

I could see Nintendo doing it because, they make hardware to sell 1st party games. MS loves to brag about being selling 3rd party games though. How does that help 3rd parties looking to make cross platform games to cover rising cost?

Is the superior graphics pretty much going to be their trump card? Like the uPad will be what Nintendo is selling? I honestly confused about this strategy.

1. It would differentiate Microsoft, they will have the "Best" graphics.

2. It would allow developers to push PC more, seeing as how targeting a console will not adversely affect the visual quality of the game when ported to PC.

3. If not buying Nintendo games, I'm buying PC games.

4. I win.

 

[Aostia]

So, going by your and bgassassin's statements:

-360/PS3
-Low-end PC (Wii U)
- Median/High-end PC (PS4)
-High-end PC (Xbox720)

and that the gap between the Wii U and the 720 can be roughly similar to the dreamcast vs the Xbox. Thanks for the info. It is nice to have bit more precise picture on how the Wii U will compare.

.

If the gap will be wider than the one between DC and Xbox, as lherre said, Im really scared (again) for Wii U support...both for a technological issue and for a market problem. I don't know how many million users the Wii U can reach before the release of the "real" nextgen systems, so...

 

[radioheadrule83]

That kind of difference isn't a big deal if Nintendo have the warez to sell this thing for the first year, and their price advantage is good enough. I dread to think what another box nearer to bleeding edge is gonna cost. Maybe that's why they're trying out this $99 + subscription thing... I don't think the economy is gonna be particularly improved in some parts of the world next year, expensive boxes will be a hard sell. Hell, I think Wii-U will be a hard sell in this climate, even at a traditional launch price.

 

[Ormberg]

I don't see why. The Wii to PS3/360 gap was MUCH larger.

I believe that an überpöwerfül console will be bad for the industry at large. I also believe that there'll be even more doom-and-gloom articles about Nintendo. Sure, it's a step up and whatever Nintendo has cooking should be good, if not great, but we'll never hear the end of "last gen AGAIN, lol Wii U" etc.

Where PS4 is in all this, I have no idea.

Interesting, but I was hoping the gap wouldn't be so large between the three, but rather they'd focus on innovation rather than throwing POWAH on 3rd party.

 

[EloquentM]

I don't understand, are you basing this off an educated guess or actual info about all next gen consoles?

Actual info. He's a developer.

 

[ozfunghi]

Could one of the mods please change Lherre's name to partypooper?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Glorified G]

Could one of the mods please change Lherre's name to realist?

Thanks in advance.

fixed.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

To me it would seem that either they would go for actual GI/Radiosity or stick to what's used already. It would seem like a waste of transistors and silicon to have a portion dedicated to faking those things.

I don't know, to me Radiosity/GI is one of those things that makes almost any art style look better when rendered. It's one of those things that are subtle but does so much to make things feel solid, and grounded in a world. Doing real GI/Radiosity in hardware is probably still a long ways off. I would imagine, 1 the hardware doing it isn't feasible for a console, and 2 is super expensive. If you could develop hardware that could more efficiently fake ambient occlusion, and radiosity in hardware, I think that would be pretty big stuff.

I still stand by that the big next gen development needs to be better lighting. I think we've reached a point where throwing more polys at something isn't going to make things look that much better. Where yeah raising some texture map resolutions would improve things, it's not going to be that big. How ever adding some ambient occlusion, and radiosity to something, WOAH makes a big difference, at least to me.

We'll see how this gen goes though, I really think/hope that this gen will finally see the jump in lighting, that we've seen for polygons, and textures, and animation in previous gens.

 

[bgassassin]

So, going by your and bgassassin's statements:

-360/PS3
-Low-end PC (Wii U)
- Median/High-end PC (PS4)
-High-end PC (Xbox720)

and that the gap between the Wii U and the 720 can be roughly similar to the dreamcast vs the Xbox. Thanks for the info. It is nice to have bit more precise picture on how the Wii U will compare.

The analogy range for Wii U is safely in the DC to PS2 realm and I personally lean more toward the PS2 end of that spectrum.

While some of this stuff sounds cool, it also sounds like a huge huge waste of ram (the ones I highlighted). Ram that I would rather see go towards the game, than to the OS. Save some of those features for next next gen, when we're talking about systems with 8 gigs of ram and have more leeway. I don't want to see 1/4 of the systems ram going to the OS personally.

Apparently a response blu gave me jogged wsippel's memory of cube mapping, which I also forgot about. It would fit with what you were proposing.

And here are some recent demos using cube mapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLrvTyaKUSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsV9Ln_TLa8

 

[lednerg]

People are used to seeing Nintendo 1st/2nd party games on hardware that can't even run Doom 3. The jump from that to Wii U is going to make a pretty huge impression on people, and it will negate the fact that some 3rd parties won't be taking advantage of the hardware at first. Nintendo's art staff is as close to Pixar as it gets in the gaming industry, with their titles oozing polish in every frame. Sure it's the fanboy in me talking, but I have more faith in them on the Wii U than I do with most studios on unlimited hardware.

 

[BD1]

Don't we also need to consider that the next XBox isn't going to really be a a "video game" machine? At least not how we think of them today. That whatever is inside XBox 3 isn't just There for games, it's there for a wide variety of media and content features?

Where Nintendo will continue to add other media content like Hulu, Netflix, Nintendo Video, etc they will always design a system first and foremost to play games.

Microsoft is probably not thinking like that. I look at a giant banner that says "A World of Windows Connected Devices" every day at one of the accounts I call on. Everything Microsoft seems to be doing points to "Video Games-As-A-Service" and XBOX was the brilliant trojan horse to get in the living room. Do they want a system to play all the cutting edge games? Absolutely. But I think Microsoft brass is more interested in a console that runs on Windows 8, connects with Windows devices, that easily delivers movies and television and music, that is social, that is the center of the living room.

 

[Oddduck]

Don't we also need to consider that the next XBox isn't going to really be a a "video game" machine? At least not how we think of them today. That whatever is inside XBox 3 isn't just There for games, it's there for a wide variety of media and content features?

Where Nintendo will continue to add other media content like Hulu, Netflix, Nintendo Video, etc they will always design a system first and foremost to play games.

Microsoft is probably not thinking like that. I look at a giant banner that says "A World of Windows Connected Devices" every day at one of the accounts I call on. Everything Microsoft seems to be doing points to "Video Games-As-A-Service" and XBOX was the brilliant trojan horse to get in the living room. Do they want a system to play all the cutting edge games? Absolutely. But I think Microsoft brass is more interested in a console that runs on Windows 8, connects with Windows devices, that easily delivers movies and television and music, that is social, that is the center of the living room.

I think people on Gaf will be shocked at how much Nintendo will push media playing (apps, video streaming, music streaming, photos, books) and other non-gaming stuff on Wii U to sell the system to casual gamers or old people. Even ideaman has said this.

Wii U might not be a real tablet, but that won't stop Nintendo from treating it like one with lots of apps.

 

[wsippel]

Well I only have 2 options to choose in that post but I honestly think it will be bigger.

Real world, on paper or in synthetic benchmarks?

What I mean is: On Xbox360, worst case is one third of the CPU is doing audio, one third is doing IO, and only one third is doing logic, AI and physics. On Wii, you had dedicated logic for audio and IO, and Nintendo seems to be going the same route on Wii U. So unless Microsoft is following Nintendo's design approach, they kinda need a significantly more powerful CPU to achieve comparable results in real world applications - something neither theoretic specs nor synthetic benchmarks take into account. Does this difference in philosophy still apply, and did you take it into account?

 

[lherre]

Real world, on paper or in synthetic benchmarks?

Well the alpha kits that the developers have now have a huge difference in specs (real hardware but not finished), so I don't know how to put this, if real world or paper.

 

[BD1]

I think people on Gaf will be shocked at how much Nintendo will push media playing (apps, video streaming, music streaming, photos, books) and other non-gaming stuff on Wii U to sell the system to casual gamers or old people. Even ideaman has said this.

Wii U might not be a real tablet, but that won't stop Nintendo from treating it like one with lots of apps.

We don't know that.

But that's not my point. My point is Nintendo is a games company only. Microsoft is not, and wants households to be running end-to-end on a Windows ecosystem.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing for Microsoft either. I have a lot of respect for that company.

 

[Rösti]

Unless my browsers are lying to me, Nintendo has removed all of the videos from the Nintendo Network page (e3.nintendo.com) that was used for E3 2011.
The videos were available some time after the new page was introduced.
I cannot access the following videos anyway (I have the press conference stored though):

http://media.nintendo.com/e3/_ui/vid...e_English2.mp4
http://media.nintendo.com/e3/_ui/videos/HW_demo.mp4
http://media.nintendo.com/e3/_ui/videos/HW_sizzle.mp4

The press kit is still available though: http://media.nintendo.com/pressroom/E32011/index.html

Nothing big, just routine work. Though kinda strange to remove the press conference video from this site, seeing as the press conferences from E3 2009, E3 2010 and E3 2011 are readily available on the Japanese hub:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2009/webcast/index_en.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2010/report/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2011/01/index.html

Maybe the Japanese audience wasn't as confused as some members of the western audience. Ah well, if anyone wanna get some flashbacks, just click the links above. The E3 2008 presentation doesn't seem to be stored on any of Nintendo's sites.

 

[BY2K]

I don't think that means anything, Rosti.

 

[ozfunghi]

fixed.

Could one of the mods please change Glorified G's name to partypooper?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rösti]

I don't think that means anything, Rosti.

Of course it doesn't mean anything, as I wrote it's just routine work. But with little else to discuss except for how much RAM Durango and Orbis will have, I thought I could point it out.

 

[ozfunghi]

Well the alpha kits that the developers have now have a huge difference in specs (real hardware but not finished), so I don't know how to put this, if real world or paper.

So not real world.

 

[IdeaMan]

What's to stop Nintendo from revealing EKG pulse grips on the controller at E3? Such a design would be much easier to implement given the new grips that were revealed in the patents. The accuracy of the EKG grips even improve with a little sweat..

Didn't Nintendo say they had one more big surprise for the controller, or was that just chalked up to being the NFC capabilities?

Here's a mockup..

If they have an additional surprise for the controller, then it has been kept secret from third-parties very well.

Simply put:

- Third-parties used for a long time, the DRC you saw at E3 2011 (more or less).
- They were noticed by Nintendo of several modifications that an updated model will have.
- They've waited for the supply of this new version for many months.
- They got it roughly at the same time the leaked picture appeared.

So, it's rather unlikely that they would have received a long awaited updated DRC, to learn just a few weeks after, at E3 2012, that Nintendo have a very different controller for them again, by very different i mean with a big, kept hidden feature (and this would add another problem: the time needed to implement such a feature for their projects, already well advanced now). I don't exclude the possibility though. More likely, there will be slight modifications from the latest DRC you saw, like stickers, letters engraved on/under the new buttons, maybe different materials here and there, and other things.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The most exciting thing about a high end Xbox/PlayStation next generation is that my current generation PC hardware might finally be put through its paces.

I actually enjoy buying a game knowing it will run smoothly pc hardware being put through it paces sounds like "time to get a new video card"

 

[Pocks]

If they have an additional surprise for the controller, then it has been kept secret from third-parties very well.

Simply put:

- Third-parties used for a long time, the DRC you saw at E3 2011 (more or less).
- They were noticed by Nintendo of several modifications that an updated model will have.
- They've waited for the supply of this new version for many months.
- They received it roughly at the same time the leaked picture appeared.

So, it's rather unlikely that they would have received a long awaited updated DRC, to learn just a few weeks after, at E3 2012, that Nintendo have a very different controller for them again, by very different i mean with a big, kept hidden feature (and this would add another problem: the time needed to implement such a feature for Wii U games development already well advanced now). I don't exclude the possibility though. More likely, there will be slight modifications from the latest DRC you saw, like stickers, letters engraved on/under the new buttons, maybe different materials here and there, and other things.

At what point did developers learn about the 3D capabilities of the 3DS.. wasn't it shockingly short notice?

 

[Nibel]

There was a Wii U online press kit...?

Holy crap :lol

 

[IdeaMan]

IdeaMan posted some rumor info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38001100&postcount=14359

the additional message linked in the edit is important also, to avoid any misconception. But it will be a pretty featured system, that's for sure. And it's only natural when you consider the asymmetric, dual screen (with a touchscreen tablet) setting + their recent efforts/what they are doing pertaining to OS/platforms functions on 3DS.

 

[IdeaMan]

While some of this stuff sounds cool, it also sounds like a huge huge waste of ram (the ones I highlighted). Ram that I would rather see go towards the game, than to the OS. Save some of those features for next next gen, when we're talking about systems with 8 gigs of ram and have more leeway. I don't want to see 1/4 of the systems ram going to the OS personally.

I'm sure they will unlock more room for the games once their system software layer is complete. Akin to 3DS situation. It was one of my very first impression when i gathered the data, the room for improvement, the stretching factor of the Wii U capacities, just with the resources allocation between the TV and the DRC.

And maybe they will allow a "light" mode, deactivating some functions to free more ram, cpu usage, etc, for the most demanding titles that won't use such OS features.

 

[tkscz]

Another poster here claims that they got UE4 running during that tweaking phase.

A poster who didn't read my entire post before saying something. As if he'd had read it, he'd see that I said won't be running UE4.

 

[Donnie]

Iherre is a developer who has first hand knowledge on the hardware, (well, atleast with the wii u) Believe it.

lherre is also a person with as subjective an opinion as anyone else. Nobody should doubt that he's got a very good idea of the specs of WiiU and to a lesser extent PS4/Xbox3. The rest however is opinion.

I do think that a lot of people underestimate just how good of a machine Dreamcast was. Though I think the comparison will definitely fail quite a bit when it comes to feature set. DC had a DX6 level graphics chip afair, while Xbox was DX8. WiiU will be much chooser than that to the Xbox3 feature set. I also can't see the difference in geometry/lighting/AI and physics being anywhere near as big either considering on DC all of that had to be done on the 200mhz CPU. While Xbox could share those tasks over a dual vertex shader and a 733mhz CPU.

Also while Xbox3 may be some monster system PS4 certainly isn't at the moment and won't have anything even close to a DC to Xbox gap over WiiU by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Fantastical]

At what point did developers learn about the 3D capabilities of the 3DS.. wasn't it shockingly short notice?

It was way before this time in the Wii U's life. We learned about the handheld officially (including the 3D) in March 2010. I would assume developers heard about it before March. It came out in February 2011 in Japan.

 

[Smellycat]

It was way before this time in the Wii U's life. We learned about the handheld officially (including the 3D) in March 2010. I would assume developers heard about it before March. It came out in February 2011 in Japan.

right before Nintendo announced that they were making a 3D handheld device.

 

[EatChildren]

I actually enjoy buying a game knowing it will run smoothly pc hardware being put through it paces sounds like "time to get a new video card"

I, unfortunately, do not have that kind of money to burn .

 

[BlackJace]

I, unfortunately, do not have that kind of money to burn .

What do you have currently?

 

[Fantastical]

right before Nintendo announced that they were making a 3D handheld device.

Hm? They did this on March 23, 2010 according to Wikipedia.

 

[EatChildren]

What do you have currently?

i5 2500K OC'd to 4.3Ghz, 8GB RAM, and an OC'd GTX 570.

 

[wsippel]

Well the alpha kits that the developers have now have a huge difference in specs (real hardware but not finished), so I don't know how to put this, if real world or paper.

Specs are "on paper". I remember the early days of the current gen, when everyone was raving about the specs of PS360 - now that we know the bottlenecks and the IPC performance, things don't look quite as impressive anymore.

 

[dinosaur_hunter2]

i5 2500K OC'd to 4.3Ghz, 8GB RAM, and an OC'd GTX 570.

Wow, I have the same exact setup.

 

[Luigison]

This don't burn very well?

 

[AzaK]

Am I the only one that unfortunately thinks that Nintendo won't show the OS at all, basically won't show anything but games. They'll leave people speculating on how everything actually functions until their later conference before release. I mean I hope we see it but I don't know. I see E3 going down like this:

- "we have a lot to talk about today blahblahblah industry blahblahblah"
- "3DS is doing fantastic but not as good as it could be doing in other places"
- "here is what we have coming for 3DS" *cue trailers, sizzle reels, whatever*
- "now the wiiU blahblah *insert joke about power/leaks* blah controller blah"
- "online will have these features and those features, netflix hooplah blahblah"
- "trailers for games/sizzle reel"
- *on stage demo of pikmin using the controller*
- "we will have support from *insert 3rd party companies"
- *cue bigger game support, any surprise if there is one*
- *shows a lot of super cheesy commercials*
- *shows one last surprise trailer, either retro/monolith"
- "go home"

Basically my point is I don't think they'll be like "we did a brand new OS, we love it!" and spend 10 minutes showing you around, friends lists, etc...

I imagine they'll show it wrt their online integration. Your account, the Nintendo Network, maybe cross game chat or invites or whatever it is they have done with it.

And if that's the case we'll have the exact same situation as the current-generation. Nintendo will again be left in the cold by third parties.

That's what I've been expecting, though. I don't think Nintendo ever gets in the good graces of third parties again unless they team up with a major partner in their next console (Google, Apple, etc).

Not really, because a low end PC can still run the same game as a high end PC, it just doesn't look as good.

I don't see Sony pushing beyond what they are already planning.

OK, have I missed something? I thought all we had were some vague rumours about 720/PS4? Have things solidified a bit?

Ps4 is not final yet and can change a lot but Xbox 3 it's more or less clear right now and the gap is big in almost every part

Man, lherre has bummed me out to the max in the last hour or so.

I don't take it as doom and gloom, or at least not how it being discussed right now. It's just pointing out what the console should be capable of. It would be different if there were multiple people saying Wii U won't be getting PS4 and Xbox 3 ports and saying Wii U will be another Wii.
I think it's going to come down to developer effort. When I say that I don't only mean being lazy.

Yeah I know that expectations have been in check since day one from those of you in the know, and I know that a machine released a year after another is likely to be more powerful. It's just a bit sad I think that noone in these Wii U threads has been particularly excited about the tech specs of the machine. We're entering this new age, of an HD Nintendo machine. A MASSIVE jump from the Wii and still people are like "Don't get too excited". Not a particularly great feeling to start a new generation on to be honest.

I just hope like hell that Nintendo don't try to wow us graphically at E3 because they will look like fools if what you all consider to be the power-level is actually the case.

 

[Kandinsky]

Xbox vs N64 situation confirmed.

Or 360 Vs Wii, just like this gen

 

[ffdgh]

....welp may as well put my expectations at 0 or negative to be pleasently surprised or completely indifferent. =/

 

[Neiteio]

Please stop doing that. It's not funny one week away from E3.

At all.

Don't listen to this guy, that was GREAT! I don't think anyone clicking your link died from dashed expectations. I got a good laugh of it, though.

 

[Anth0ny]

Am I the only one that unfortunately thinks that Nintendo won't show the OS at all, basically won't show anything but games. They'll leave people speculating on how everything actually functions until their later conference before release. I mean I hope we see it but I don't know. I see E3 going down like this:

- "we have a lot to talk about today blahblahblah industry blahblahblah"
- "3DS is doing fantastic but not as good as it could be doing in other places"
- "here is what we have coming for 3DS" *cue trailers, sizzle reels, whatever*
- "now the wiiU blahblah *insert joke about power/leaks* blah controller blah"
- "online will have these features and those features, netflix hooplah blahblah"
- "trailers for games/sizzle reel"
- *on stage demo of pikmin using the controller*
- "we will have support from *insert 3rd party companies"
- *cue bigger game support, any surprise if there is one*
- *shows a lot of super cheesy commercials*
- *shows one last surprise trailer, either retro/monolith"
- "go home"

Basically my point is I don't think they'll be like "we did a brand new OS, we love it!" and spend 10 minutes showing you around, friends lists, etc...

I agree. Price, date and first look at the OS at the September conference.

Nice breakdown of the conference, pretty much what I'm expecting.

 

[Sendou]

Yeah the OS can wait. Now I just want to see some games in action!