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The Wii U Speculation Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country

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efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
On an unrelated note, any Endless Ocean fans here?
(preferably fans of EO2 which was all around better)

As a scuba diver as well as a fan of the games, it makes me happy that other people are excited about a third game in HD, but I fear it would be too similar to the first two unless significant changes are made to the formula.

Anyone here have good suggestions on what could be added to such a sequel to prevent it from just being a re-skin of Blue World? (aka Adventures of the Deep in Europe)
 

HylianTom

Banned
don't worry we will find out how doomed the WiiU is by next Friday
things will be back to normal by then
If the Wii U ends-up being the only semi-exciting thing at the show this year, I'm wondering if we're going to see a lot of this. Be nice to get the clicks during sweeps week, and then resume normal douchbaggery after the festivities are over.

One place where I don't see the big sites changing their tunes? Podcasts. For whatever reason (some good, some bad), they don't hold back very much then.
 
Strong Ubisoft support is nothing to celebrate about, if the Wii is any indication. There's about three good games that came from them and far too many bad ones to count.
 
If the Wii U ends-up being the only semi-exciting thing at the show this year, I'm wondering if we're going to see a lot of this. Be nice to get the clicks during sweeps week, and then resume normal douchbaggery after the festivities are over.

One place where I don't see the big sites changing their tunes? Podcasts. For whatever reason (some good, some bad), they don't hold back very much then.

oh those sites editors also award best of show don't they?
cannot wait to the podcasts after E3

don't take a drink every time you hear the word "gimmick" though you would not survive
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Strong Ubisoft support is nothing to celebrate about, if the Wii is any indication. There's about three good games that came from them and far too many bad ones to count.

looking at the actual lineup they are presenting, I think that nintendo fans should hope for their success and support them.

Assassins Creed 3, Rayman Origins and eventually Splinter Cell (rumor) could be three very good multiplatform titles developed for the system; Ghost Recon Online is a potentially good esxclusive as Killer Freaks.

If Ubi can offer both curious exclusive titles targeted also to the "core" market and their most important multiplatform titles (as AC3, for example) I really think that Wii U could be happy about them.
 

Portugeezer

Member
While it's not Wii U related, I think people are forgetting that we are most likely going to see the next entry in Zelda for the 3DS. For reference, Phantom Hourglass was shown off at E3 07, Spirit Tracks in 09.

With things shaping up the way they are, Nintendo will have their strongest showing at E3 since 2006. Take 2006's Wii reveal, buzz and game demonstrations and pair that with the 2010's game-after-game announcements. That's what to expect from Nintendo this year. Not to mention some pretty heavy hitters for the 3DS like Zelda above, New Super Mario Bros 2, Pokemon Black & White 2 (yes, I know this is for DS, but they'll posture it as something for the 3DS as well) and Nintendo's outline of its Nintendo Network implementation and partnership with a certain external developer.

It's going to be quite special.

Yeah I think Zelda for 3DS is likely.
 
I think people give Ubi a lot of shit because of the cash-ins but they are a very strong company. They have some strong IPs. If they heavily side with WiiU this generation its can only be a good thing. WiiU should be very different from Wii you can't just look at what they did for Wii and just expect the very same limitations
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Edit:
After EA got stage time last year and how they've hyped Wii U, do you think we can actually expect something good from them for Wii U ? Maybe even something surprising ?

I think Dead Space 3 is a good bellweather. If that isn't announced for Wii U, that is a bad sign for EA support.
 

HylianTom

Banned
MadelineApplauding.gif
 

Thraktor

Member
Doesn't that game have a story ? Is it even possible to just jump into the third game without having played the first two ? I suppose the same argument would immediately exclude DA3 from Wii U.

Nobody makes games under the assumption that every single person playing the sequel has played the original, it'd mean series that only ever decline in sales. There'll be some sort of prologue to get people up to speed.
 
On an unrelated note, any Endless Ocean fans here?
(preferably fans of EO2 which was all around better)

As a scuba diver as well as a fan of the games, it makes me happy that other people are excited about a third game in HD, but I fear it would be too similar to the first two unless significant changes are made to the formula.

Anyone here have good suggestions on what could be added to such a sequel to prevent it from just being a re-skin of Blue World? (aka Adventures of the Deep in Europe)
Right here!

I'm a big fan (especially of EO2, as you say, the best one), and I really want to see Arika making Endless Ocean 3 in HD.

And actually, I don't need big changes. I'm fine with the EO2 formula, with different parts of the world, no stupid limit to diving in a small area like the first game, customizable aquarium, etc. All additions will be welcome, of course, but I think the base is solid enough if you like that kind of games. Enhanced graphics, new (and bigger!) areas and an entertaining story would make it a instabuy for me.

Well, maybe the island can be removed. Out of the water I prefer only menus (moving the character on foot was slow and uncomfortable).
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I think what he's getting at is that the units can run software signed with a temporary key, but only from the disc drive. It's quite possible that whatever chip that handles security in each Wii U has a unique private public key hard-coded in it and will only run software off SD cards or hard-drives when encrypted with the corresponding public private key*, regardless of how it's signed. Hence developers can bring discs with software they've signed to E3, but SD cards or HDDs would require the software to be encrypted for an individual unit, and Nintendo may want to avoid that for the sake of simplicity (eg if any of the units break down).
* I took the liberty to correct your sentence, hope you don't mind ; )

The possibility that all wiiU versions (save for a devkit) will be able to run only software specifically signed/encrypted for the given unit off its SD/USB has two implications:

1. The consumer will never be able to update their console OS (i.e, flash their fw) unless the console was hooked to the net (where a server can sign the package with the unique key, etc), or they had the fw on an officially printed media. That can be a nuisance, but is the lesser problem by far. The bigger one is..
2. As a developer of DD content, you'll always need to burn your builds on a disk, just to be able to let your QA test what you've done. That can be a major hurdle for the development process. That is unless you had the vendor's console-specific sign keys to all your QA units. Which again turns the testing into a hurdle, albeit a smaller one ('Which idiot mixed the SDs for the QAs again?') Which takes us to the next point..


Current Wii U dev kits (outside Nintendo at least) aren't in the same form factor as the final retail units. Unless the final form factor is a big ugly box without a Blu-Ray drive, that is.
You people asked for a redesign :p
The units I liked to are development units, but not devkits. They are bog-standard units with normally two tweaks: they can read 'dev-cycle' media (i.e. non-officially printed media) and they may or may not have a bump in the memory (I don't think the wii one does). All that is done so that QAs can run early/debug builds off whatever the development-cycle temporary medium is - normally some sort of writable optical medium, but nothing precludes that that included some flash-based medium as well. The reason why they're not actual devkits is that a devkit is massively more expensive, and normally requires pairing to a PC to be able to function properly. A company may have a few devkits hooked to workstations, and dozens of stand-alone QA units that sit with the QA department and whose purpose is to run test builds - nothing more. Sometimes the press gets access to such units, which gives them the ability to run pre-release copies of games. Yes, during the start of a new gen normally devkits appear first, and then test/QA units appear later (as they're much closer to final retail hw). Whether nintendo have already prepared their wiiU QA units for release in the wild or not (possibly not), does not indicate what nintendo will bring to the show floor. Whatever it is, it will likely be functionally closer to a QA unit, and not to a retail unit (which, again, could be just a matter of firmware). So the entire argument of what a retail unit can and cannot do is nigh irrelevant to this discussion.
 

wsippel

Banned
On an unrelated note, any Endless Ocean fans here?
(preferably fans of EO2 which was all around better)

As a scuba diver as well as a fan of the games, it makes me happy that other people are excited about a third game in HD, but I fear it would be too similar to the first two unless significant changes are made to the formula.

Anyone here have good suggestions on what could be added to such a sequel to prevent it from just being a re-skin of Blue World? (aka Adventures of the Deep in Europe)
Yeah, Endless Ocean 3 would be awesome. I think Arika hasn't done a big project since EO2, so there might be a chance.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
* I took the liberty to correct your sentence, hope you don't mind ; )

The possibility that all wiiU versions (save for a devkit) will be able to run only software specifically signed/encrypted for the given unit off its SD/USB has two implications:

1. The consumer will never be able to update their console OS (i.e, flash their fw) unless the console was hooked to the net (where a server can sign the package with the unique key, etc), or they had the fw on an officially printed media. That can be a nuisance, but is the lesser problem by far. The bigger one is..
2. As a developer of DD content, you'll always need to burn your builds on a disk, just to be able to let your QA test what you've done. That can be a major hurdle for the development process. That is unless you had the vendor's console-specific sign keys to all your QA units. Which again turns the testing into a hurdle, albeit a smaller one ('Which idiot mixed the SDs for the QAs again?') Which takes us to the next point..



The units I liked to are development units, but not devkits. They are bog-standard units with normally two tweaks: they can read 'dev-cycle' media (i.e. non-officially printed media) and they may or may not have a bump in the memory (I don't think the wii one does). All that is done so that QAs can run early/debug builds off whatever the development-cycle temporary medium is - normally some sort of writable optical medium, but nothing precludes that that included some flash-based medium as well. The reason why they're not actual devkits is that a devkit is massively more expensive, and normally requires pairing to a PC to be able to function properly. A company may have a few devkits hooked to workstations, and dozens of stand-alone QA units that sit with the QA department and whose purpose is to run test builds - nothing more. Sometimes the press gets access to such units, which gives them the ability to run pre-release copies of games. Yes, during the start of a new gen normally devkits appear first, and then test/QA units appear later (as they're much closer to final retail hw). Whether nintendo have already prepared their wiiU QA units for release in the wild or not (possibly not), does not indicate what nintendo will bring to the show floor. Whatever it is, it will likely be functionally closer to a QA unit, and not to a retail unit (which, again, could be just a matter of firmware). So the entire argument of what a retail unit can and cannot do is nigh irrelevant to this discussion.

Glad that this tidbit i gave about Wii U discs/sd/media situation nurtured such an interesting topic going on since a few pages, i learned a lot of things thanks to you guys :)

For the bold part, they definitively were able to play the different builds of their projects without any discs being involved, as:
1- Wii U special readers (to be plugged on the dev kits), writers, and discs, arrived very recently
2 - So they ran until at least now their projects on dev kits linked to a host pc, containing the game in HDD

I hope one day we'll know why Nintendo want studios to bring their demos at E3 2012 on optical medias.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Right here!

I'm a big fan (especially of EO2, as you say, the best one), and I really want to see Arika making Endless Ocean 3 in HD.

And actually, I don't need big changes. I'm fine with the EO2 formula, with different parts of the world, no stupid limit to diving in a small area like the first game, customizable aquarium, etc. All additions will be welcome, of course, but I think the base is solid enough if you like that kind of games. Enhanced graphics, new (and bigger!) areas and an entertaining story would make it a instabuy for me.

Well, maybe the island can be removed. Out of the water I prefer only menus (moving the character on foot was slow and uncomfortable).

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved EO2 but I need something more for a sequel.
And I'm not sure I agree about the environments being small in that game.. it would take you hours to explore every nook and cranny of the larger areas...

I was thinking one direction it could go was a slight sci-fi setting where you were a member of a team of underwater explorers with their own base of operations on the bottom of the sea, and some more sophisticated diving equipment such as
the mini-sub that drowned in EO2
or maybe other cool vehicles like in that movie The Life Aquatic. They could borrow ideas from everywhere from 20,000 leagues under the sea to Sealab 2021 :-D
 

Sadist

Member
Edit:
After EA got stage time last year and how they've hyped Wii U, do you think we can actually expect something good from them for Wii U ? Maybe even something surprising ? Did we get any indication on games that might hit Wii U ? What do they even have coming in the next months ? Medal of Honor ? A new NfS ? DS 3?

I think Dead Space 3 is a good bellweather. If that isn't announced for Wii U, that is a bad sign for EA support.

This was John Riccitiello last year on stage at the Nintendo presser:

6lqb8.jpg


He said EA would fully support (All their big releases apparantly) the Wii U and out of those franchises Dead Space, NfS, Medal of Honor and the sports games will release at the end of this year or in 2013. The sports games will be there and I believe an Austrian newspaper confirmed MoH Warfighter for Wii U. And Visceral Games had an job offer to work on a new Dead Space game targeted at the 360, PS3, PC and a unannounced platform. Unless they meant Vita, I'd say the unannounced platform would be Wii U. Remember, EA was actually working on porting Dead Space 2 to Wii(!).
 
I have no idea why this happened, but I dreamed of a Zelda game last night. It had an art style similar to Dragon Quest VIII; but it was more stylized with a much higher resolution, brigher colors, and an incredible draw distance. It looked amazing.
 

wsippel

Banned
Not really unexpected, but there's still so much room for improvement on the middleware side of things that companies like Audiokinetic slip in noteworthy optimizations even during bugfix releases. If they reached above 360 levels of performance three months ago, I wonder where they stand now. I also wonder if the recent breaking changes to the build system had any impact.
 
I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved EO2 but I need something more for a sequel.
And I'm not sure I agree about the environments being small in that game.. it would take you hours to explore every nook and cranny of the larger areas...

I was thinking one direction it could go was a slight sci-fi setting where you were a member of a team of underwater explorers with their own base of operations on the bottom of the sea, and some more sophisticated diving equipment such as
the mini-sub that drowned in EO2
or maybe other cool vehicles like in that movie The Life Aquatic. They could borrow ideas from everywhere from 20,000 leagues under the sea to Sealab 2021 :-D
Yes, some of the environments of EO2 were quite large. My file exceeded the 50 hours, and never got bored. But since we're asking for a sequel in a more powerful console, more extension wouldn't hurt :p (and with the fewest possible loading screens).

About adding some sci-fi, could be OK, although I like how the first two sticked to a realistic world even when the plot almost convince you that at some point some fantastic creature would rise from the depths. I think the atmosphere is half of those games, and I always tried to play in the dark and with headphones, like an horror game xD
 
Not really unexpected, but there's still so much room for improvement on the middleware side of things that companies like Audiokinetic slip in noteworthy optimizations even during bugfix releases. If they reached above 360 levels of performance three months ago, I wonder where they stand now. I also wonder if the recent breaking changes to the build system had any impact.

2012.1.3? Or is there a more recent one?
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Yes, some of the environments of EO2 were quite large. My file exceeded the 50 hours, and never got bored. But since we're asking for a sequel in a more powerful console, more extension wouldn't hurt :p (and with the fewest possible loading screens).

About adding some sci-fi, could be OK, although I like how the first two sticked to a realistic world even when the plot almost convince you that at some point some fantastic creature would rise from the depths. I think the atmosphere is half of those games, and I always tried to play in the dark and with headphones, like an horror game xD

definitely agree about the atmosphere, what other game can offer both a horror experience and rainbow colored visuals all in one sitting?
I also admire how they walked the fine line between realism and fantasy in such a way that you always knew which parts were factual and which were exaggerated and didn't exist in real life.

but for me half the fun was the joy of discovery, new environments, new species etc. They would have to have nearly 100% new content to achieve that feeling again.
 
No, that's the most recent one. It's in the changelog:

Mostly noteworthy because this is the only change that isn't a bugfix in a bugfix release.

Yeah, I saw that. Continuing optimisation is good news - any whispers as to whether this is something happening across the board?

I'd be interested to know how much of the early complaints about the system and the comparisons with the PS3/360 were down to poorly-optimised middleware...
 
Doesn't that game have a story ? Is it even possible to just jump into the third game without having played the first two ? I suppose the same argument would immediately exclude DA3 from Wii U.

Assassins Creed 3 & Darkstalkers 2 are in the same boat, & all it would take is a small cinematic to get around the problem.
 

Thraktor

Member
* I took the liberty to correct your sentence, hope you don't mind ; )

The possibility that all wiiU versions (save for a devkit) will be able to run only software specifically signed/encrypted for the given unit off its SD/USB has two implications:

1. The consumer will never be able to update their console OS (i.e, flash their fw) unless the console was hooked to the net (where a server can sign the package with the unique key, etc), or they had the fw on an officially printed media. That can be a nuisance, but is the lesser problem by far. The bigger one is..
2. As a developer of DD content, you'll always need to burn your builds on a disk, just to be able to let your QA test what you've done. That can be a major hurdle for the development process. That is unless you had the vendor's console-specific sign keys to all your QA units. Which again turns the testing into a hurdle, albeit a smaller one ('Which idiot mixed the SDs for the QAs again?') Which takes us to the next point..

The units I liked to are development units, but not devkits. They are bog-standard units with normally two tweaks: they can read 'dev-cycle' media (i.e. non-officially printed media) and they may or may not have a bump in the memory (I don't think the wii one does). All that is done so that QAs can run early/debug builds off whatever the development-cycle temporary medium is - normally some sort of writable optical medium, but nothing precludes that that included some flash-based medium as well. The reason why they're not actual devkits is that a devkit is massively more expensive, and normally requires pairing to a PC to be able to function properly. A company may have a few devkits hooked to workstations, and dozens of stand-alone QA units that sit with the QA department and whose purpose is to run test builds - nothing more. Sometimes the press gets access to such units, which gives them the ability to run pre-release copies of games. Yes, during the start of a new gen normally devkits appear first, and then test/QA units appear later (as they're much closer to final retail hw). Whether nintendo have already prepared their wiiU QA units for release in the wild or not (possibly not), does not indicate what nintendo will bring to the show floor. Whatever it is, it will likely be functionally closer to a QA unit, and not to a retail unit (which, again, could be just a matter of firmware). So the entire argument of what a retail unit can and cannot do is nigh irrelevant to this discussion.

My sentence was quite correct, thankyouverymuch. The software would be encrypted with the console's individual public key and then signed by Nintendo's private key. Even though the former is held privately by Nintendo, it's still a public key as far as the terminology of asymmetric key cryptography is concerned. Once the console attempts to run the software it checks the signature against Nintendo's public key, and then decrypts with its own private key.

Anyway, you're right about point 1, but I imagine that Nintendo don't consider download-only firmware updates to be that much of an issue, given how much they're focussing on online functionality this time around. On the second point I had imagined that the developers would be able to encrypt software for each of the QA units in their possession, and I don't think mixing up SD cards should be that much of a problem.

You're quite right about the difference between dev-kits and QA units, but my point stands that final form factor dev hardware (QA kits) don't exist outside Nintendo yet. As you say, though, the difference between these kits and the final hardware could be as little as different firmware, and if I'm right, and these cryptographic features are fixed in hardware, then even these kits would require SD and HDD software to be encrypted properly.

Besides, I'm not necessarily saying that this is the way I'd design the hardware, just that if Nintendo are requiring all E3 software to be delivered on disc (and I trust IdeaMan enough to believe he's right on that one), that this is a potential reason why they'd do so.
 
no really.....i've seen enough of the ww look for one handheld generation thx lol

Have to agree with this. Well I think the hand held games just need a revamp in every sense. Controls, look, design, all of it. Let me have an overworld again, instead of a boat or a slow ass train, let me control Link directly not through a stylus. Most of all no more stealth, run from this safe point to this safe point, and repeat this same dungeon over again crap.
 

kizmah

Member
Right here!

I'm a big fan (especially of EO2, as you say, the best one), and I really want to see Arika making Endless Ocean 3 in HD.

And actually, I don't need big changes. I'm fine with the EO2 formula, with different parts of the world, no stupid limit to diving in a small area like the first game, customizable aquarium, etc. All additions will be welcome, of course, but I think the base is solid enough if you like that kind of games. Enhanced graphics, new (and bigger!) areas and an entertaining story would make it a instabuy for me.

Well, maybe the island can be removed. Out of the water I prefer only menus (moving the character on foot was slow and uncomfortable).

I loved both EO games and a third for WiiU is on my most wanted list together with Eternal Darkness 2. Of course, better graphics are a given but I would like the overall production values to get a boost. Better and more evolved story (minor sci-fi or horror elements could work) and voice-acting would be nice. A menu system in the shape of some type of logbook would be a great fit for the new controller.

I would actually like the story to be centered mostly around photography. Seems like the perfect fit for the new controller. It could work both as the camera and a tool for photoediting. I would really love that seeing as even the limited photo-option in the Wii games was awesome.
 

Sadist

Member
I remember what they said, I'm wondering if they that's what they meant. I suppose Medal of Honor is likely, as are their sports games and maybe NfS, I can't judge how story-heavy DS3 is. However those are not really games to blow me away to be honest, though I'm really looking forward to finally getting the "real" FIFA.

Also I never really believed that they were actively working on DS2 for Wii, I always thought that was just an 'alibi job', like the two people working on online for Wii for NBA Jam. I'm much more hyped for the games Ubisoft or Capcom have, than anything I could see EA offer me, especially since there'll be no Mirror's Edge 2.
I think last years NFS the Run was available on Wii, so a Wii U release is very likely.

Dead Space has it's story, but they could include a recap for the Wii U version. Hopefully there will be one. If it's not I'll buy it on PC, but I'd like Wii U version of 3. Dead Space games are very entertaining.
 
True! I really like that about Nintendo. They usually announce games very close to their release dates! Not always though but usually

Yup, the best one was Super Mario Galaxy 2. Nobody had a clue they were working on it, they showed it at E3 and basically said it's out tomorrow lol. Might not have been the next day, I can't remember but it was released pretty soon after the announcement as far as I remember.
 

AntMurda

Member
Here's a fun fact: Nintendo have never released a 3D console without having shown off a 3D Mario game for it.

There's only been three 3D consoles before it. And GameCube unveiled without a Mario game. They showed it a few months before release at Spaceworld.
 
There's only been three 3D consoles before it. And GameCube unveiled without a Mario game. They showed it a few months before release at Spaceworld.

...though they did show off the Mario 128 (was that the name for it?) demo with the multiple Marios on a cube, didn't they?
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Nooooo way that Valve thing from CVG is true. NOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAY.

(Or I'll flip my shit like no tomorrow.)
 
Nooooo way that Valve thing from CVG is true. NOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAY.

(Or I'll flip my shit like no tomorrow.)

companies will one day understand you don't bet against Nintendo and want to partner with them to do stuff... so its not impossible we still need to know who those partners are that Iwata talked about a year ago
 
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