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The Witness |OT|

G

GatticusFinch

Member
kAmui- said:
You should read this blog post where he explains why there is no music in the game http://the-witness.net/news/2015/11/on-music-sound-effects-story/
Click to expand...

Here's what he says:

The Witness is a game about being perceptive: noticing subtleties in the puzzles you find, noticing details in the world around you. If we slather on a layer of music that is just arbitrarily playing, and not really coming from the world, then we’re adding a layer of stuff that works against the game. It’d be like a layer of insulation that you have to hear through in order to be more present in the world.
Click to expand...

The entire point of music is for it to be complimentary. He says that ALL music, of any kind, whether now in existence or not, would not work because it would be "insulation." I just cannot possible believe that. I'm sure some minimalist, atmospheric music could enhance what is already there.

Studies have shown listening to classical music while performing a puzzle improves spatial reasoning versus sitting in silence, which would go perfectly with these types of puzzles. In that sense, it actually improves human perception, not detracts from it.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
GatticusFinch said:
The entire point of music is for it to be complimentary. He says that ALL music, of any kind, whether now in existence or not, would not work because it would be "insulation." I just cannot possible believe that. I'm sure some minimalist, atmospheric music could enhance what is already there.

Studies have shown listening to classical music while performing a puzzle improves spatial reasoning versus sitting in silence, which would go perfectly with these types of puzzles. In that sense, it actually improves human perception, not detracts from it.
Click to expand...
It's not about the type of music; it's the fact of music playing at all. For better or for worse, he has a very singular focus on the type of environment he wants, and he believes non-diegetic sound detracts from it. He's clearly opposed to anything that feels artificial piped into the environments.
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
GatticusFinch said:
Here's what he says:



The entire point of music is for it to be complimentary. He says that ALL music, of any kind, whether now in existence or not, would not work because it would be "insulation." I just cannot possible believe that. I'm sure some minimalist, atmospheric music could enhance what is already there.

Studies have shown listening to classical music while performing a puzzle improves spatial reasoning versus sitting in silence, which would go perfectly with these types of puzzles. In that sense, it actually improves human perception, not detracts from it.
Click to expand...

That's just how he felt. You may disagree but he's the one making the game. Quietude was a distinct choice and he doesn't really need to justify it. It's fine to not like his decision, but you can't act like it's objectively wrong or something.
 
B

Birathen

Member
ekim said:
2 more hours... *impatiently looking at clock*



PC version is not out yet. I'm going to play it with the Steam Controller though.
Click to expand...

Oh yea.. Im dumb, I just checked steam befor I posted, brain works kinda slow. I guess Ill go in blind and be your Steam controller-bro *brofist*
 
B

baconcow

Member
Game looks beautiful. Are there any weather or wind effects in the game? I notice the water moving, but I haven't seen any motion in any of the plant life from the few videos I've seen.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
One puzzle grid near the water right at the beginning is annoying me. It looks like
the cable just behind it should be used as he template to follow
but I've tried drawing it out about five time and it won't register.
 
V

Vexidus

Member
Makai said:
Everyone complaining about the soundtrack, I have you covered.

Robert Rich - Nest

There you go. Enjoy.
Click to expand...

Amazing album, but it has a lot of field recording ambience in it, I would imagine the two would clash. I haven't played the game yet though, but I don't think I'd listen to music until quite late in the game. Perhaps when I get the first ending and am clearing the rest, I will listen to some music.

Might I recommend Sleep, by Max Richter. I believe it would fit quite nicely!

Click to expand...

ps. I know I said I would stay clear of this thread, but I'm weak. Tiptoeing!
 
H

Hyperbole

Banned
XANDER CAGE said:
That's just how he felt. You may disagree but he's the one making the game. Quietude was a distinct choice and he doesn't really need to justify it. It's fine to not like his decision, but you can't act like it's objectively wrong or something.
Click to expand...
I agree. Plus if you really want to listen to music while you play, you can just turn on Spotify. Some nice piano music or perhaps classical orchestra would compliment nicely.
 
Xdrive05

Xdrive05

Member
Hey GAF, how is this game as a virtual couch coop with an S.O.? Or what I mean is, my wife and I were enamoured with South Park SoT, just taking turns with the story. She's interested in The Witness too.

Does this make an intertaining couples game?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Yogg said:
It was briefly mentioned quite a while ago that The Witness would have support for 3D TVs. Is it the case for the PS4 version ? Any option or auto-detection for that in the game ?
Click to expand...

Nope


Xdrive05 said:
Hey GAF, how is this game as a virtual couch coop with an S.O.? Or what I mean is, my wife and I were enamoured with South Park SoT, just taking turns with the story. She's interested in The Witness too.

Does this make an intertaining couples game?
Click to expand...

I think it should. It can't hurt t have two pairs of eyes helping out with things.
 
B

baconcow

Member
Xdrive05 said:
Hey GAF, how is this game as a virtual couch coop with an S.O.? Or what I mean is, my wife and I were enamoured with South Park SoT, just taking turns with the story. She's interested in The Witness too.

Does this make an intertaining couples game?
Click to expand...

I plan on playing this with my wife, this evening, so I hope so.
 
L

louiedog

Member
iFirez said:
Anyone have any news if this has 21:9 support on PC? If not... we'll find out pretty soon.
Click to expand...

Looks like it probably does.

c6575343bc.png
Click to expand...
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
My brain is actually hurting.

What I don't understand about this game is how I'm supposed to know what new blocks/tiles on a board are supposed to represent.

Also, there's a set of boards early on where you're supposed to complete in order. Getting one wrong deactivates the board so you have to go back to the previous one and re-do it. I thought that was incredibly tedious. Am I missing something? Are there clues around to make it less of a guesswork?
 
G

GatticusFinch

Member
XANDER CAGE said:
That's just how he felt. You may disagree but he's the one making the game. Quietude was a distinct choice and he doesn't really need to justify it. It's fine to not like his decision, but you can't act like it's objectively wrong or something.
Click to expand...

Enough people asked that he chose to justify it.

I understand his reasoning of why he did not put music in the game. If he had said he could not come up with music that fit, I would totally understand. If he had said that music playing over the sound effects impaired the game, I would totally understand. If he said he wanted people to focus on the sound effects and not the music, I would totally understand.

Instead, what he said was that music harms human perception, which is objectively false.
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
Kyoufu said:
My brain is actually hurting.

What I don't understand about this game is how I'm supposed to know what new blocks/tiles on a board are supposed to represent.

Also, there's a set of boards early on where you're supposed to complete in order. Getting one wrong deactivates the board so you have to go back to the previous one and re-do it. I thought that was incredibly tedious. Am I missing something? Are there clues around to make it less of a guesswork?
Click to expand...

It's never guesswork.
Part of the puzzles are finding the clues

GatticusFinch said:
Enough people asked that he chose to justify it.

I understand his reasoning of why he did not put music in the game. If he had said he could not come up with music that fit, I would totally understand. If he had said that music playing over the sound effects impaired the game, I would totally understand. If he said he wanted people to focus on the sound effects and not the music, I would totally understand.

Instead, what he said was that music harms human perception, which is objectively false.
Click to expand...
Nice moving of those goalposts.

Also he never EVER says music "harms human perception". He says "If we slather on a layer of music that is just arbitrarily playing, and not really coming from the world, then we’re adding a layer of stuff that works against the game. It’d be like a layer of insulation that you have to hear through in order to be more present in the world."
 
N

NeoRausch

Member
Why is nobody making a Spotify playlist for this game?

I'm already seeing myself putting on some stupid Enya or Dead Can Dance for this...

Help me!
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
Deputy Dangle said:
It's... complicated. I've yet to play the game myself, but everything I've gathered from Blow's podcast appearances and reviews makes the story sound very esoteric in how it uses environmental clues and audio logs to communicate its ideas.
Click to expand...

People talk about uncovering mysteries and secrets and that's absolutely my jam. I feel like I need motivation for walking around an island and solving puzzles. I need a reason why. So if I'm uncovering story and intrigue with every step, I'll love it.

I'm in a precarious position because I don't want spoilers and have to be careful what I read. But I also want more information than I currently have. It's a delicate balance.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
Kyoufu said:
My brain is actually hurting.

What I don't understand about this game is how I'm supposed to know what new blocks/tiles on a board are supposed to represent.

Also, there's a set of boards early on where you're supposed to complete in order. Getting one wrong deactivates the board so you have to go back to the previous one and re-do it. I thought that was incredibly tedious. Am I missing something? Are there clues around to make it less of a guesswork?
Click to expand...
If it's the one I just got the trophy from. There is a very obvious clue I missed at first.

Biggest eureka moment for me came from that buildup there.
Oh, it's invisible. Duh! :]
 
I

IchigoSharingan

Member
GatticusFinch said:
Here's what he says:



The entire point of music is for it to be complimentary. He says that ALL music, of any kind, whether now in existence or not, would not work because it would be "insulation." I just cannot possible believe that. I'm sure some minimalist, atmospheric music could enhance what is already there.

Studies have shown listening to classical music while performing a puzzle improves spatial reasoning versus sitting in silence, which would go perfectly with these types of puzzles. In that sense, it actually improves human perception, not detracts from it.
Click to expand...

armchair game design
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
GatticusFinch said:
Enough people asked that he chose to justify it.

I understand his reasoning of why he did not put music in the game. If he had said he could not come up with music that fit, I would totally understand. If he had said that music playing over the sound effects impaired the game, I would totally understand. If he said he wanted people to focus on the sound effects and not the music, I would totally understand.

Instead, what he said was that music harms human perception, which is objectively false.
Click to expand...

Okay. It doesn't really change much though, does it?
 
G

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Kyoufu said:
My brain is actually hurting.

What I don't understand about this game is how I'm supposed to know what new blocks/tiles on a board are supposed to represent.

Also, there's a set of boards early on where you're supposed to complete in order. Getting one wrong deactivates the board so you have to go back to the previous one and re-do it. I thought that was incredibly tedious. Am I missing something? Are there clues around to make it less of a guesswork?
Click to expand...

1) If you come across a symbol you haven't seen before, you haven't found the bank of tutorial puzzles that explain the language of those symbols yet. The Witness is very hard, but it's never that obtuse. Treat any door with a symbol you don't recognize as a locked door. The key is finding the area of the island that explains how that symbol works.

2) I chalk the deactivation up to a very mild punishment for random guessing. It never happens in the beginning of a puzzle sequence, always closer to the middle, when by then you should understand how a set of puzzles work and KNOW if you have the right solution or not. I usually draw my full line, then double-check it before hitting submit in sections like that.
 
B

Belgian Dude

Member
Some certain puzzles basically NEED to have some sort of punishment so it doesn't become trial and error. The tree ones near the windmill only have 16 possibilties if you're going for guesswork, and letting you guess randomly would still give you a solution at some time. It's a really mild punishment considering your previous solution is still on the panel and it's just a manner of retracing, but it disencourages guesswork.
 
J

jyoung188

Member
How's the performance on ps4? I'm torn on what platform to get it on. I have a fairly high end pc that I'm sure would run this perfect 1080 60fps but if its the same on ps4 I'd get it there to play on my nice TV in the livingroom.

And for the pc players how's they keyboard and mouse controls when interacting with the puzzles? Is it better or worse with a controller? I prefer fps gaming with a keyboard and mouse so that could sway me back to the PC.

I do have the elite controller I could use on PC.... Hmmm decisions, decisions.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
Jonathan Blow is an incredibly smart man, and worked on this game for a long time. He also has a team of very talented people.

I can assure you if he wanted music in the game, it would be there. It's not missing because he is lazy, or couldn't find the right music. It's not there because he made a deliberate choice that he didn't want any.

Its fine to disagree with that decision but its disappointing seeing some making baseless assumptions and speculation. If you want music just find the track you want and fire up Spotify or the media player app and there you go
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
GDJustin said:
1) If you come across a symbol you haven't seen before, you haven't found the bank of tutorial puzzles that explain the language of those symbols yet. The Witness is very hard, but it's never that obtuse. Treat any door with a symbol you don't recognize as a locked door. The key is finding the area of the island that explains how that symbol works.
Click to expand...

That makes more sense, thanks. I guess I've skipped a lot of the tutorials at the section I've ended up in.
 
G

GatticusFinch

Member
XANDER CAGE said:
Okay. It doesn't really change much though, does it?
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes his given reasoning for not including music wrong, contrary to decades of research, and it should make the people attacking others for questioning the lack of music slow down from the "Blow's a genius and you have no right to criticize him" circlejerk that is already forming.
 
C

ClearData

Member
jyoung188 said:
How's the performance on ps4? I'm torn on what platform to get it on. I have a fairly high end pc that I'm sure would run this perfect 1080 60fps but if its the same on ps4 I'd get it there to play on my nice TV in the livingroom.

And for the pc players how's they keyboard and mouse controls when interacting with the puzzles? Is it better or worse with a controller? I prefer fps gaming with a keyboard and mouse so that could sway me back to the PC.

I do have the elite controller I could use on PC.... Hmmm decisions, decisions.
Click to expand...

Performance maxes out ay 1080/60 on PS4, but you get the nice living room experience.

PC is eventually getting a VR mode though.

Right now I am leaning towards PC because I'd like to play this in 21:9 when I get a new monitor.
 
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