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The Witness |OT|

I

Icyflamez96

Member
I didn't read his post except for the first point. I already knew this game would be dumb hard for me. Portal 2 was the hardest game I played last gen, and I played and beat Dark Souls.

I've been expecting me to take forever on this, just knocking some things out here and there.
 
S

SilentRob

Member
I just spent an hour staring on a thing, gave up, wandered around for 5 minutes, got frustrated with myself for giving up, returned to the puzzle and immediatly solved it because i intuitively did something else.

I feel so smart right now. This is a good game.

I'm also really happy there aren't any walktroughs yet because I have the lingering feeling I would have resorted to that and deprived myself of this great moment. Really take what Justin said to heart. If you can't solve something, leave it for later. You are guarenteed to find dozens of other things to do and eventually you'll come back and just get it.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
GDJustin said:
Yeah, I mean, The Witness is a brilliant game, one of my favorites in recent memory. But it's harder and requires quite a bit more from people than Portal 2. I'm not afraid to say it isn't for everyone, and if someone struggled with Portal 2 it might be hard to get through much of The Witness without resorting to guides.
Click to expand...

Harder or easier than The Talos Principle?
 
Shrike Alvaron

Shrike Alvaron

Member
cpp_is_king said:
But how do you know if the puzzle you're stuck on is one that's "too hard" or you just don't have the information? Until you go look it up, read the solution, and then find out "oops, I could have actually solved that"
Click to expand...

You move on. You go look around, explore, observe the environment. Go and do a different puzzle even, look to see if there's others in the same area that follow the same theme and can teach you something, or go to a different part of the island entirely and take a break from what you're having a problem with. Sleep on it, think about it, let it sit in the back of your mind, come back to it later. It's not a race, take your time, and don't be afraid to get stuck.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
cpp_is_king said:
But how do you know if the puzzle you're stuck on is one that's "too hard" or you just don't have the information? Until you go look it up, read the solution, and then find out "oops, I could have actually solved that"
Click to expand...

I'd imagine eventually once i get past all the easier ones all the puzzles will become like that and if I can't solve any puzzle i find then I'm doing something wrong. Basically I'm afraid it will get to the point where I haven't been able to solve a single puzzle for a very long time (days or something) and then get frustrated and quit.
 
R

Remembrance

Member
GDJustin said:
Edit: This game could really benefit from a crowd-sourced hint system, like oldschool adventure games. Wikis will just show you where to put the line. Hints could say something like "look around you before trying to solve" and then get gradually more obvious from there.
Click to expand...

http://www.uhs-hints.com/ would be the perfect site for a crowdsourced collection of hints (if someone is willing to take the time to submit them). The site doesn't see much activity for new games nowadays, but arguably there hasn't been a major game in recent years that fits this site until The Witness.

Man, it's hard to quote a post when you're also trying to not look at spoilers in it.
 
N

Norwegian_Imposter

Member
I'm gonna struggle so bad with this game.... but im ready, as soon as the PSN store updates im jumping in. That alongside this war of mine will make it a very fun time.
 
S

SilentRob

Member
cpp_is_king said:
But how do you know if the puzzle you're stuck on is one that's "too hard" or you just don't have the information? Until you go look it up, read the solution, and then find out "oops, I could have actually solved that"
Click to expand...

So far it's always been pretty obvious because there's always something you don't recognize that keeps you from solving the puzzle. So I skipped it and and, lo and behold, at some point later in time I find out what that thing in the earlier puzzle meant.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
The Technomancer said:
I'm incredibly excited for this. I do hope the PC unlock time gets bumped up, 10am Mountain Time is really inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm in PST but midnight would be...not fun :(

I really want to play this, have been thinking about it all day after watching the GB Quick Look. It just seems like....a refreshing game in many ways. A game that encourages your imagination to solve stuff.
 
A

AusRoachman

Member
Watching the quick look has got me hyped , I'm probably too dumb to solve a lot of these puzzles but I'm going to try and avoid guides as much as possible , I have a feeling this game will have a few puzzles that will take years to solve , just a hunch.
 
A

anddo0

Member
DarknessTear said:
I'm very bad at puzzles but I still want to play this. Arghghghgh.
Click to expand...

Join the club.

Yet I still managed to beat Fez, Braid, and both Portal games.
I think the game has just enough puzzles to allow you to reach the end.
If it's percentage based, even novice puzzle gamers should be able to enjoy and finish the game.
 
H

hughesta

Banned
Incredible OT.

Does anybody know when the game goes up on the PSN store? 12AM EST? Should I stay up and wait for it or would I be better off going to bed and playing in the morning.
 
S

SomeOneInaHat

Member
I'm expecting PT levels of obtuse for some of the later bonus puzzles, and I'm going to feel like a super genius when I crack the mystery wide open.

Hurry the fuck up, Tomorrow.
 
G

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
cpp_is_king said:
Harder or easier than The Talos Principle?
Click to expand...

Witness's standard difficulty (after a section's tutorial panels) is as hard as the red block puzzles in Talos, or maybe one step harder. It's roughly equivalent in difficulty to Talos's red puzzles, with occasional spikes significantly higher (or those spikes were just me being a dummy in that instance, which is very possible). I hope Blow built in automated reporting and Witness is phoning home about which panels people stare at the longest, which are the least solved, etc.

This also isn't a 1:1 comparison, because some of the puzzles are self-contained. Hit up the panel, and figure it out. But other puzzles are about figuring out what the panel is trying to tell you about the game world, which doesn't really have any point of comparison in Talos.

Edit: Poster below me mentioned that Talos didn't require pen, whereas Witness does, and quite often, at that. So yeah, these are harder. There were 0 red puzzles in Talos I couldn't solve. Many puzzles in The Witness I've had to walk away from, at least for a time.

cpp_is_king said:
But how do you know if the puzzle you're stuck on is one that's "too hard" or you just don't have the information? Until you go look it up, read the solution, and then find out "oops, I could have actually solved that"
Click to expand...

Nah, you'll know. If the puzzle panel has symbols on it you don't recognize, then you know. Each section of the island has a different "type" of puzzle, with the puzzle's symbol "language" explained to you. Some other spots on the island combine and remix these symbols in interesting ways.

Brainfreeze said:
What was your opinion on Braid? And how would you say this compares to that? Mainly in terms of difficulty(and maybe atmosphere, story, theming effectiveness, if you want to discuss that). I thought that game was about perfect, where I was often on the edge of wanting to look up answers, but I always felt like I knew just enough and had just enough experience and was sooooo close to figuring it out that I'd stick with it. It wasn't punishing of mistakes and allowed experimentation, but you couldn't really accidentally stumble into answers either, so every puzzle was satisfying when solved.

Obviously this game has way more puzzles, and apparently plenty of the sort that require pen and paper to solve, by your own suggestion, so a direct comparison isn't possible, but any insight would be interesting to hear.
Click to expand...

I think I like this game more than Braid. It's probably roughly on par in puzzle difficulty, but there's far far more puzzles here. Much higher volume, without sacrificing quality or resorting to filler. It's ambitious.

I don't want to get into thematic Witness stuff pre-release.
 
V

Vexidus

Member
Smash88 said:
I'm curious about this as well, is this harder or easier than The Talos Principle?
Click to expand...

Talos doesn't require a pencil and paper to complete. There was a quote from Blow who said something like there is a certain puzzle that he is positive that less than 1% of players will be able to solve on their own.
 
C

Cth

Member
I realize some may disagree with what I'm asking for, but..

Is there a spoiler hook or something to help sell me on the game? PMs are fine.

PROS: I loved Braid, love puzzles, liked Portal/Talos, etc
CONS: Never played Myst, get motion sickness with Portal/Talos, facing foreclosure

I'd really like to support Blow, but honestly, the price is too much for me at this time, especially if I get motion sickness. If it was a retail release I could use a GCU or gift certificates I've saved up for it.

I know people are tired of hearing about the price, so again I'd appreciate any hard sells/spoilers to give me the extra push to pick it up at launch.
 
R

rudds

Name 10 better posters this year
icespide said:
so on a scale from Portal 2 to Fez, how obscure and difficult are the puzzles and progression in this game?

I had no issues with Portal 2, but I eventually gave up on Fez
Click to expand...

Much harder than Portal 2, (somewhat) less obscure than Fez. I can't necessarily say Fez is harder since I also gave up on it once it descended into crypto-hell, but at least in The Witness I eventually solved everything myself through to the end (with a couple of super vague hints on two puzzles I can think of). Fez seemed utterly impenetrable by comparison, at least with this you feel like the solution is within reach even if you can't identify it immediately.

cpp_is_king said:
But how do you know if the puzzle you're stuck on is one that's "too hard" or you just don't have the information? Until you go look it up, read the solution, and then find out "oops, I could have actually solved that"
Click to expand...

For the most part the concepts are clearly signified even if you don't understand what the signifiers mean, if that makes sense.
 
G

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Cth said:
I realize some may disagree with what I'm asking for, but..

Is there a spoiler hook or something to help sell me on the game? PMs are fine.

PROS: I loved Braid, love puzzles, liked Portal/Talos, etc
CONS: Never played Myst, get motion sickness with Portal/Talos, facing foreclosure

I'd really like to support Blow, but honestly, the price is too much for me at this time, especially if I get motion sickness. If it was a retail release I could use a GCU or gift certificates I've saved up for it.

I know people are tired of hearing about the price, so again I'd appreciate any hard sells/spoilers to give me the extra push to pick it up at launch.
Click to expand...

Game isn't going anywhere - if you're having money trouble just stop reading about the game now. Pick it up and immerse yourself in is puzzle island later.
 
V

Vexidus

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
I'm looking for a quote Blow had a while ago about the puzzles not all being easy? Something along the lines of "if they were all easy and meant to be solved, than they're just exercises." Anyone know which one I'm talking about?
Click to expand...

Here is the quotation that I think you're referring to:

Jonathan Blow said:
"The thing I want to preserve [from adventure games] is something I feel is being lost a lot in modern games, and that is having puzzles that are actually puzzles. What I mean by that is that a legitimate puzzle is something that you might never figure out unless you do a good job. Because if you're guaranteed to figure it out, then it's...more like an exercise, I guess.

There just aren't many games made that are legitimate puzzle games anymore...and I feel like there's a vast richness that we sort of used to have, that is no longer being tapped. This idea that you run an Infocom adventure and if you looked at the manual, maybe you have a little bit of guidance on how to talk to it, but the majority of the gameplay experience was you're like Robinson Crusoe on this island and you have to make the best of it and figure it out. It's not going to tutorialize you all the way through."
Click to expand...
 
V

Vexidus

Member
rudds said:
For the most part the concepts are clearly signified even if you don't understand what the signifiers mean, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Brad, I really loved your review. Seeing the island referred to as "resplendent" just made me melt. I can't wait to jump into this game and explore its mysteries!
 
V

Vexidus

Member
xkramz said:
Excuse my ignorance, but what does the OT title mean? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

This is the very first "puzzle" you encounter on the very first door in the game:

Door.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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