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[Mister Apoc]

Ubisoft has 20,000 employees. Rockstar has like 2000

their is no reason Ubisoft shouldn't be able to put out Rockstar level games quality wise and without it being a buggy mess

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

 

[Majormaxxx]

These 20k are spread around the globe. Local management sucks. Local workers are underpaid and over micromanaged. If they can come up with 500 super star managers to lead the 20k the right way, then it can work. But ubi is too profit driven to invest in quality local talent or star managers. They just need worker bees

 

[DrMano]

Completely different philosophies though. RS has always been focused on quality for their games, but had they not hit an infinite pot of gold with GTAV Online who knows they could've ventured down Ubisoft's path of yearly milking their franchises with diminishing quality. Ubi ate good between 2008-2018 before their bad business practices started catching up though.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Ubisoft has 20,000 employees. Rockstar has like 2000

their is no reason Ubisoft shouldn't be able to put out Rockstar level games quality wise and without it being a buggy mess

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

Culture matters. How the company is run, determine what a company does. Those in charge determine what is vital and what is important.

Talents come and go, but management makes the decisions. That is why Boeing was a great company when it was managed by former Engineers, and now it is dying because it is run by MBAs.

If you don't know how to make a good product, you wouldn't have the time to learn before you go bankrupt. That is why bad companies need to die, because most of the time that is the only way to kill off bad management. Changing the CEO is usually not enough to change the culture.

 

[Shubh_C63]

We should maybe just agree that there are only so many people who are skilled at their jobs, or hold the charisma and leadership skill to move teams and management.

 

[Rentahamster]

Without knowing anything about how the internals of either company actually work, my feeling is that Rockstar knows how to keep their senior talent happy, creative, and motivated, while Ubisoft's management would gladly throw away decades of man-hours worth of institutional knowledge to save a buck.

 

[Dorfdad]

Huh? Ubisoft churns out 4-5 games a year while rockstar does one every 4-5 years it seems. Could they probably but it’s not in their DNA they are a yearly sequels developer.

If they took one franchise say Assasins Creed and spent 5 years on it they could easily make a great game! However with 20000 people on board like you said they would be broke before they release, so they need more games

 

[Raven117]

Talent means more than number of people dude. (Talent utilized properly)

 

[Nydius]

I don’t think Rockstar is a benchmark to be emulated anymore. They’ve been coasting on GTA5/GTAO since 2013 and RDR2 since 2018. Long gone are the days when Rockstar gave us three quality GTA games in a single generation while also working on pet projects like Table Tennis, Bully, Midnight Club, and others.

We’re lucky if we get one to two Rockstar games every decade. That’s the opposite extreme to Ubisoft’s situation. Both need to find a middle ground.

Edit: “Coasting” was probably a poor choice of words given that we know GTA6 is coming. But my point is we shouldn’t have to wait twelve to thirteen years between sequels when the only other major project they did in that time was Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

[Gp1]

Ubisoft is some sort of gaming Mcdonalds.

You can`t ask the Mcdonalds burger flippers to cook like in a Michelin starred restaurant.

 

[nial]

Despite my personal feelings over Rockstar's games, all those developers work on one single game every 5-7 years, while Ubisoft publishes several titles (mostly internally-developed) each year.
Rockstar's external producers barely do anything these days, either (outside of ports and remasters of old games). It's a miracle the Max Panye 1-2 remakes are even happening, at all.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Rockstar games are a phenomenon like Fortnite, Call of Duty, Diablo or Micecraft. It the success was so easy to copy, verybody would. If Ubisoft bundles all their ressources, spends 7 year on one game and that game concords, they're done.

 

[CityHunter1981]

They will never risk to work 8 years on a single game. Rockstar also has a huge team and all of them focus only on a single game and not multiple games at the same time.

In order to make such a production cycle worthwhile you really need these huge sales numbers and for Ubisoft that would be a huge gamble.

 

[ahtlas7]

false equivalence

 

[pqueue]

they do not have the patience (or long term cash resources) to let a game cook as long as rockstar does.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

It seems you have answered your own question, Yes, almost universally, people think Rickstar is more talented.

 

[Robb]

By that logic there’s no reason [insert any studio in the world with a lot of employees] shouldn’t be able to put out R* quality games… We should be swimming in them by now.

I think the easy answer is that R* isn’t like most studios. They are most definitely a more talented and focused bunch than most. But they also have time on their side. Extremely few developer have the benefit of releasing a successful game and then being able to wait a decade to release the sequel.

 

[Majormaxxx]

It is discouraging how few games rockstar will release in the next years... What a shame.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

They have really, really different philosophies when designing games. To Ubisoft all games are GTA Online.

 

[Generic]

Ubisoft has 20,000 employees. Rockstar has like 2000

their is no reason Ubisoft shouldn't be able to put out Rockstar level games quality wise and without it being a buggy mess

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

Ubisoft needs to release a game per year rather than per decade.

 

[Rivdoric]

20 000 of which only 1000 are actually doing something. The rest are there to ensure the legal disclaimer at the start is correctly updated.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They can achieve the quality but might not sell as many copies.

Also I had more fun playing Ass Creed Odyssey, Watch Dogs 2, Immortals Phoenix Rising than Red Dead Redemption 2.

So not sure if I want them to go that way either.

 

[Von Hugh]

Ubisoft lacks the vision, leadership and talent to pull something like that off. Also, they won't take the risk of putting all resources into a 5+ year project.

Instead they make formulaic games every year that mostly suck.

 

[Kurotri]

They rocked the world with AC1 back then. They did a huge leap a few years later with AC3. While I thought it was a shit game, they were insanely ambitious and once again did things no one did. Tree parkour and climbing rock formations freely, random ship combat out of nowhere with tight controls etc. AC Unity was the last time they were ambitious. That level of parkour, graphical fidelity and crowd density was something to behold.

They used to have talent and a different company culture, they were driven. Nowadays that talent either left or has been left to waste away under toxic positivity culture. They used to set trends. That Ubi is long gone and even a 20.000 headcount can't change that when your culture doesn't promote any sort of authenticity or outside-the-box thinking. Just dumbed down conveyor belt gaming.

 

[Three]

I'd say Watchdogs is a good barometer of their "Rockstar level" game capability. In the same vein they can make "COD level" shooters too. The problem is that they would never make a game that can compete with either GTA or COD purely on brand and in a way that sets their 'level' based on budget too.

 

[genesisblock]

It seems you have answered your own question, Yes, almost universally, people think Rickstar is more talented.

I disagree, Ubisoft's games are diamonds in the rough which speaks to the talent of the developers . The key difference is that they are never given resources to make their games polished to the level equal to that of Rock*.

 

[AV]

He's back!

This is like saying "there's no reason Imagine Dragons can't write a song as good as The Beatles"

 

[geary]

Ubisoft has 20,000 employees. Rockstar has like 2000

their is no reason Ubisoft shouldn't be able to put out Rockstar level games quality wise and without it being a buggy mess

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

Yes, and you'll get a game every 10 years.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is a non serious thread.

Ubisoft doesn't have any IP that would warrant the amount of pooled resources that T2 puts behind a game like GTA. Also according to Linkedin Rockstar has closer to 6000 employees and probably thousands of more contractors.

Ubisoft has over 20 disparate studios. What game should they pool studios in to work on together and bring in zero revenue for years while they build it?

Rockstar takes a huge bet on what is the biggest video game IP on the planet. GTA5 came out in 2013...

Assassin's Creed, Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, FarCry, and Prince of Persia are not selling this many units.

Star Wars Outlaws was in development for like 4+ years with 600+ staff.

At this point, Ubisoft is dead. They're going to be the largest game publisher to go under since THQ, but the reality is that EA will probably buy them out, do massive layoffs, and boil Ubisoft down to a handful of IP. Meta and Netflix are possibilities too. T2 is a remote possibility.

 

[Parazels]

Imagine some Ubisoft top manager reading this topic!

 

[Laptop1991]

The reason is Ubisoft, I don't see anyone mention those NFT'S or whatever they were that Ubisoft loved as well recently, they have been anti consumer for a few years now and it's caught up with them, it's their own fault.

 

[Gamezone]

Quality < Quantity

 

[MMaRsu]

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

Yes this is why.

 

[TVexperto]

They almost got there with Watch Dogs 2...The NPCs, how they react to you, the different ways they behaved in san francisco was amazing

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They almost got there with Watch Dogs 2...The NPCs, how they react to you, the different ways they behaved in san francisco was amazing

City don’t have grand feeling of cities in Rockstar games. Definitely a budget issue.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

I don’t think Rockstar is a benchmark to be emulated anymore. They’ve been coasting on GTA5/GTAO since 2013 and RDR2 since 2018. Long gone are the days when Rockstar gave us three quality GTA games in a single generation while also working on pet projects like Table Tennis, Bully, Midnight Club, and others.

We’re lucky if we get one to two Rockstar games every decade. That’s the opposite extreme to Ubisoft’s situation. Both need to find a middle ground.

Edit: “Coasting” was probably a poor choice of words given that we know GTA6 is coming. But my point is we shouldn’t have to wait twelve to thirteen years between sequels when the only other major project they did in that time was Red Dead Redemption 2.

I wish more studios took their time to put out something extraordinary. Say what you want about GTAO, but it has allowed Rockstar even more time to create games that are truly revolutionary. They are going to have 7 years with 1000's of the highest quality talent in the gaming industry developing GTA 6. It's release will radically change the gaming industry

 

[Mr Reasonable]

If it was just a case of hiring 2000 employees and you'd get a GTA of your own then every platform would have had one years ago. Even Nintendo.

 

[geary]

I wish more studios took their time to put out something extraordinary. Say what you want about GTAO, but it has allowed Rockstar even more time to create games that are truly revolutionary. They are going to have 7 years with 1000's of the highest quality talent in the gaming industry developing GTA 6. It's release will radically change the gaming industry

I don't know...do you want to wait 5 years for 50 hours game? A game you finished in 1-2 weeks and then 5 more years of waiting?

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah, just like there's no reason why every country with the same number of people shouldn't have the same GDP, right?

 

[Kumomeme]

it is not about quantity foremost. it need to be balanced with quality.

its like you compare a fast food joint vs a fine dining restaurant.

Ubisoft, basically the former and Rockstar is the latter.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

There's no reason why I shouldn't win the lottery - I just don't.

 

[SSfox]

Patrick Desilet the creator of AC was against yearly spam franchise, they fired him for this, since then there gave never been an AC with the magic of the first 3 where he was involved. (Altho BF was awesome too but not Brotherhood level)

 

[Darsxx82]

The reason why neither UBi nor any other game is doing it is simple:

-Ubi cannot afford to have 2000+ devs working on it for 11+ years.

-Assuming that they would achieve a similar result, Ubi's game would not remain in the top 10 best sellers for 11+ years like GTA.

Ultimately, it's not all about the number of staff and developers. It's about business and specific circumstances.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company,

Because, you know, talent is THAT important.

20K hacks don't make up for 2K true developers.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

You mean one AssCreed every 10 years? Not sure if shareholders would like that.

 

[Jakk]

I don’t think Rockstar is a benchmark to be emulated anymore. They’ve been coasting on GTA5/GTAO since 2013 and RDR2 since 2018. Long gone are the days when Rockstar gave us three quality GTA games in a single generation while also working on pet projects like Table Tennis, Bully, Midnight Club, and others.

We’re lucky if we get one to two Rockstar games every decade. That’s the opposite extreme to Ubisoft’s situation. Both need to find a middle ground.

Edit: “Coasting” was probably a poor choice of words given that we know GTA6 is coming. But my point is we shouldn’t have to wait twelve to thirteen years between sequels when the only other major project they did in that time was Red Dead Redemption 2.

I mean, long gone are days when pretty much any AAA developer gave us three quality games in a single generation. Development times for high budget games with great quality are ridiculously high. And the difference is that while Ubisoft has many studios working on different projects, majority of people from all Rockstar studios are working on a single project at a time.

I very much prefer Rockstar's way of doing things vs Ubisoft. I used to look forward to anything Ubisoft announced and now I find their games incredibly dull, boring and average.

However, I get what you are saying, I also miss Rockstar's other IPs like Bully or L.A. Noire. Maybe they could do a smaller project inbetween the big ones. Then again, does it really make sense for them to "waste" time on smaller games, when the big ones sell like crazy? I don't know.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Ubisoft has 20,000 employees. Rockstar has like 2000

their is no reason Ubisoft shouldn't be able to put out Rockstar level games quality wise and without it being a buggy mess

Unless you think Rockstar is just a more talented company, their is no excuse for Ubisoft

And as a company the size of Ubisoft they cannot bet their whole company on making a hit AC once every 5 years. Which is what Rockstar does.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

I don't know...do you want to wait 5 years for 50 hours game? A game you finished in 1-2 weeks and then 5 more years of waiting?

A game like GTA or RDR2 is incredibly replayable. But my answer would still be yes. There are so many game studios in the industry, I would much prefer higher quality games being released more seldomly compared to what we have now. A lot of good games, but few great ones

 

[Majukun]

check at the amount and frequencies of releases and you have your reason

 

[MMaRsu]

They almost got there with Watch Dogs 2...The NPCs, how they react to you, the different ways they behaved in san francisco was amazing

Yeah but the driving physics was dogwater, the puzzles were MEH, and the story wasnt that good either.

Marcus is a cool protagonist tho