There is no Epstein Client List

I think the fact that this Epstein stuff has been going on for years, and until now, one side was suppressing everything, and NOW there's some alleged letter and ties to Trump should tell one everything one needs to know. Can we please just blow up our system and start over? There were never supposed to be political parties in the first place. All we do is line pockets and get nothing done.
 
The whole thing is odd at this point. He's either not on the list which is possible as too many of his enemies would have had knowledge of it and did nothing even though they hate him. He is on the list but so his half of congress which is also likely. Or Trump isn't on the list but big donors and people he's trying to protect are. If the list really doesn't exist then he would be guilty of pushing a conspiracy from the beginning. I would laugh if there was a list and it was just Prince Andrew multiple times.
 
ProtoByte said:
Like I said, Trump hasn't done a full 180. But his disdain for the obsession around this topic comes from a mixture of things.

Ego: "Why aren't they focusing on all the winning I'm doing??"
Politics: This has now become a political hot potato.
Disclosure: The "odd" aspects around this that suggest intelligence ties are extremely complex and inside baseball. If Epstein was involved with intelligence directly or indirectly (and I think it would be best to use the word "informally"), it was for covert arms trading in the Middle East in the 80s. Stuff that the intel establishments of multiple countries (and you'd be surprised which ones would be involved) do not want to telegraph to their adversaries or to the wider public. There's a reason I said that post was already too long. Honestly, I don't expect many people would actually engage in all of that, but I'll link a very informative video on this at the end of the post.


Sorry Slimy and everyone who liked this post, but this and everything you said after it is wildly incorrect.

Anybody who knows anything about the Diddy case understands that Comey blew it big time and made the SDNY look stupid. She and her team overshot and whiffed on all the serious charges - the most serious 3 out of to be numerical. To be specific, Diddy was acquitted on both alleged counts sex trafficking and the RICO charge - after they dropped other charges mid trial.
The RICO was ridiculous on its face: How are you going to convict RICO with - singular sole defendant??

The charges he was convicted of don't even come with a minimum sentence. It is unlikely he spends more than 2 more years behind bars.

They were arrogant: Relying on the video where Diddy does in fact commit domestic assault and gross details of his proclivities (of which the jury saw non-public video of btw) to be enough to get a jury to convict on much more serious charges. Why didn't they charge him with domestic assault you ask? Because that would be up to state authorities, who were too late by the time the video came out. The statute of limitations had been expired for literally 5 years.

Doesn't help that she's a federal prosecutor under an admin that is politically opposed to her father. But it's a guarantee that irrespective of the admin, the SDNY office would've fired her anyway for the sheer embarrassment.


Elon's post was very stupid and manipulated the minds of people who don't understand language. Of course Trump is in "the files". Those files have been out for years. Ie the flight logs. There are likely 1000s of files and they will of course cover every high profile name that came into significant contact with any of this. "The files" =/= "the L I S T". I notice that even people here kind of flip between the two as if they're synonymous.


The way that they average podcaster has approached this topic makes me understand why some people think the internet should be restricted.

Andrew Schulz and his team are a crew full of idiots. Enjeti is a conspiratorial midwit. He's digging around and giving a surface level, impressionist picture, and obviously has a personal and/or financial agenda that tends towards "populism". Have your opinions, but be responsible if you're gonna put this shit out there and actually take it to the most plausible conclusion instead of "just asking questions" where there are some pretty well indicated answers instead of forming your conclusions and suggestions around your cursory glancing biases.

Again, I recommend listening to the much more concise and rigorous Mike Benz. <28 minutes instead of 2+ hours:

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I think people are certainly overstating the case for a conspiracy. And yeah Andrew Schultz is not a reliable source of info; neither is Saagar for that matter. Having said all that Trump's ties to Epstein are suspicious as was his reluctance to release more info on the matter. And, again idk what Trump may have been involved in or not, but that birthday letter he wrote to Epstein is fucking weird man. Even if Epstein was not involved in a blackmail scheme, it's a weird thing for the current president to have written to a well-known pedophile.
 
I'm always curious.. are people unaware that had a well publicized friendship in the 80s and 90s af least?

Trump was seen with him, they partied together, he commented on it, and Trumps comments were about women?

"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy," Mr. Trump told New York magazine in 2002. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

Throughout those years, they were spotted together at parties.

In 1992, Mr. Trump threw a raucous party with N.F.L. cheerleaders at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida. NBC's footage of the party shows Mr. Trump socializing with Mr. Epstein.

In 1997, Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein attended a Victoria's Secret "Angels" party together in New York.
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I'm not saying the letter is absolutely real but the damn Wall Street Journal of all places published it after threat of being sued.

Either way their public relationship Trump bragged about in the past should have disturbed everyone a long ass time ago.
 
Madserb2023 said:
The whole thing is odd at this point. He's either not on the list which is possible as too many of his enemies would have had knowledge of it and did nothing even though they hate him. He is on the list but so his half of congress which is also likely. Or Trump isn't on the list but big donors and people he's trying to protect are. If the list really doesn't exist then he would be guilty of pushing a conspiracy from the beginning. I would laugh if there was a list and it was just Prince Andrew multiple times.
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You think Trump would cop this heat to protect Prince Andrew?
 
Trump has always been a sexual assaulter, racist, and xenophope. Theres well documented proof of all of this. Its pathetic that so many of you just hand wave this. All his political actions are retaliatory and he's attacked women's rights at all turns. He's a coward who preys on people all the time.
 
Lunarorbit said:
Trump has always been a sexual assaulter, racist, and xenophope. Theres well documented proof of all of this. Its pathetic that so many of you just hand wave this. All his political actions are retaliatory and he's attacked women's rights at all turns. He's a coward who preys on people all the time.
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Super racist, the most super racist EVER.

I hear he personally stuck her at the back of the bus.

msheC57xEv63DGRF.jpg
 
Every part of this topic gets mixed up in confused ways now

The lack of a client list is not the same as a lack of general evidence of his wrongdoing. It seems like a much more narrow claim that "the notion of a secret list of people associated with him in illicit/illegal ways doesn't exist."

There are for instance some things out there like flight logs, but those have a ton of people who simply were in the broader elite social circle who got rides without a clue about this guy, and not accused of anything. It's a bit like the fact you can find nearly anyone in a photo with the guy; he was everywhere.

The idea of a smoking-gun client list was always corny. But I do think they should find a better way to describe the situation, and better reassurances that the investigation will expand into exactly who was involved with him knowingly.
 
ResurrectedContrarian said:
Every part of this topic gets mixed up in confused ways now

The lack of a client list is not the same as a lack of general evidence of his wrongdoing. It seems like a much more narrow claim that "the notion of a secret list of people associated with him in illicit/illegal ways doesn't exist."

There are for instance some things out there like flight logs, but those have a ton of people who simply were in the broader elite social circle who got rides without a clue about this guy, and not accused of anything. It's a bit like the fact you can find nearly anyone in a photo with the guy; he was everywhere.

The idea of a smoking-gun client list was always corny. But I do think they should find a better way to describe the situation, and better reassurances that the investigation will expand into exactly who was involved with him knowingly.
Click to expand...

You're making way too much sense.
 
DeafTourette said:
He was awarded that medal for his contributions in real estate for NYC. Not civil rights. You can look it up.
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Yeah, he got an award recognizing diversity, celebrating immigration, and promoting an integrated community. Which he contributed to. And then posed next to other folks including Rosa Parks. Does he look like he hates black people while he is doing that?
 
ResurrectedContrarian said:
Every part of this topic gets mixed up in confused ways now

The lack of a client list is not the same as a lack of general evidence of his wrongdoing. It seems like a much more narrow claim that "the notion of a secret list of people associated with him in illicit/illegal ways doesn't exist."

There are for instance some things out there like flight logs, but those have a ton of people who simply were in the broader elite social circle who got rides without a clue about this guy, and not accused of anything. It's a bit like the fact you can find nearly anyone in a photo with the guy; he was everywhere.

The idea of a smoking-gun client list was always corny. But I do think they should find a better way to describe the situation, and better reassurances that the investigation will expand into exactly who was involved with him knowingly.
Click to expand...
Just so everyone in this thread understands, "the list" is a shorthand for all the evidence the state has against Epstein, which may or may not include a sex trafficking client list, but also photographs, videos, letters, wire transfer trails, flight logs, emails, text messages, documents found at Epstein's island, etc. etc.
 
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E-Cat said:
Just so everyone in this thread understands, "the list" is a shorthand for all the evidence the state has against Epstein, which may or may not include a sex trafficking client list, but also photographs, videos, letters, wire transfer trails, flight logs, emails, text messages, documents found at Epstein's island, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know it's a controversial take: but I think people misunderstand the case and it wasn't really about Epstein being some pimp with a bunch of clients.

The sex trafficking charges focused on him paying girls for sex and flying them around the world including underage girls, hence the "trafficking."

There were accusations he sometimes had "associates" with him but it's not remotely proven or even strongly suggested in court that he was actually having "clients."

He was a huge star chaser "socialite" with a lot of money who liked to party.

People don't seem to get that you can be charged with sex trafficking for being a "John" and not necessarily a "pimp."

If you do illegal sex stuff federally it can be made into a trafficking charge. Like if you coerce a 17 year old from or Oregon to fly to California for sex, the feds might slap you with a trafficking charge. You don't have to have pimped them out. The reason it's not just statutory rape is because you flew them across state lines. Hell they can charge you even if in your state they aren't a minor, and you can be caught before you even bang lol
 
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IntentionalPun said:
Yeah I know it's a controversial take: but I think people misunderstand the case and it wasn't really about Epstein being some pimp with a bunch of clients.

The sex trafficking charges focused on him paying girls for sex and flying them around the world including underage girls, hence the "trafficking."

There were accusations he sometimes had "associates" with him but it's not remotely proven or even strongly suggested in court that he was actually having "clients."

He was a huge star chaser "socialite" with a lot of money who liked to party.

People don't seem to get that you can be charged with sex trafficking for being a "John" and not necessarily a "pimp."

If you do illegal sex stuff federally it can be made into a trafficking charge.
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Epstein started out in '74 as a math teacher at The Dalton, was dismissed a couple years later for poor performance, then somehow landed a role tutoring the son of Bear Stearns CEO. He soon became a money manager for billionaires. The Apollo Global Management Chairman Leon Black paid him $158 million for tax and estate planning services, he must be one hell of a tax attorney. A guy with no pedigree (or degree!) failing upwards, it does raise an eyebrow...

It ultimately doesn't matter the level of "professionalism" of the operation or whatever you wanna call it, I think we can agree that he was a slimy guy who liked having slimy guys over to fuck his underage prostitutes, and recorded thousands of hours of video evidence; the FBI raided it all, they admitted to the videos' existence, yet the only person currently serving a prison sentence for all this is Ghislaine Maxwell, which is fucking absurd. Why has no one else been prosecuted if there's not some cover-up?
 
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jason10mm said:
Yeah, he got an award recognizing diversity, celebrating immigration, and promoting an integrated community. Which he contributed to. And then posed next to other folks including Rosa Parks. Does he look like he hates black people while he is doing that?
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False.

Reuter: though Trump, along with Ali and Parks, was a recipient of one of the inaugural Ellis Island Medals of Honor, it was given in acknowledgement of his German heritage and his contributions to New York's business and real estate world

Nothing about 'promoting an integrated community '
 
DrFigs said:
I think people are certainly overstating the case for a conspiracy. And yeah Andrew Schultz is not a reliable source of info; neither is Saagar for that matter. Having said all that Trump's ties to Epstein are suspicious as was his reluctance to release more info on the matter. And, again idk what Trump may have been involved in or not, but that birthday letter he wrote to Epstein is fucking weird man. Even if Epstein was not involved in a blackmail scheme, it's a weird thing for the current president to have written to a well-known pedophile.
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He was not "well known" as a pedo at the time of the alleged writing. He was first charged in 2005. The alleged letter was supposedly written in 2003. Trump actually banned Epstein from Mar A Lago in '07.

E-Cat said:
Epstein started out in '74 as a math teacher at The Dalton, was dismissed a couple years later for poor performance, then somehow landed a role tutoring the son of Bear Stearns CEO. He soon became a money manager for billionaires. The Apollo Global Management Chairman Leon Black paid him $158 million for tax and estate planning services, he must be one hell of a tax attorney. A guy with no pedigree (or degree!) failing upwards, it does raise an eyebrow...
Click to expand...
Potential intelligence cooperation with the Intercontinental Accounting Group and Iran-Contra aside, you just don't understand how things work if you think that not having a degree barred you from climbing the socioeconomic ladder, especially in the 80s.

E-Cat said:
It ultimately doesn't matter the level of "professionalism" of the operation or whatever you wanna call it, I think we can agree that he was a slimy guy who liked having slimy guys over to fuck his underage prostitutes, and recorded thousands of hours of video evidence; the FBI raided it all, they admitted to the videos' existence, yet the only person currently serving a prison sentence for all this is Ghislaine Maxwell, which is fucking absurd. Why has no one else been prosecuted if there's not some cover-up?
Click to expand...
The FBI has not actually said what you are saying. You are not reading properly, if at all.
 
E-Cat said:
Just so everyone in this thread understands, "the list" is a shorthand for all the evidence the state has against Epstein, which may or may not include a sex trafficking client list, but also photographs, videos, letters, wire transfer trails, flight logs, emails, text messages, documents found at Epstein's island, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Things like "flight logs" are so vague given his social reach, as I was saying above, that's it would serve almost nothing since everyone had some flights with him. It would just create chaos with accusations going everywhere.

I do agree that they are screwing this up in how they treat it and release info, but at the same time, the notion of a secret list was hyped into a fantasy when the paper trail is probably such a mess that it's hard to tell if anyone on any document involved was actually doing something illegal.
 
Yeah, I'm usually a centrist who leans conservative, but once you start seeing all the evidence come in, there's just too much to dismiss at this point.

There may not be a detailed "list" showing everyone's name and what they did and how many times they did it, but there's definitely Epstein files, and in my mind there's no doubt that somewhere in those files Trump and many others are implicated for some heinous crimes.

At this point I gotta draw a line in the sand. I'm not letting this one go.
 
ProtoByte said:
Potential intelligence cooperation with the Intercontinental Accounting Group and Iran-Contra aside, you just don't understand how things work if you think that not having a degree barred you from climbing the socioeconomic ladder, especially in the 80s.
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Intelligence cooperation can definitely explain how he made connections and money so fast, through state blackmail. We don't know if it's true, but it's a possibility.
 
E-Cat said:
Intelligence cooperation can definitely explain how he made connections and money so fast, through state blackmail. We don't know if it's true, but it's a possibility.
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No, not through blackmail. You keep deferring to that idea. The notion that an intel body, let alone an individual would be able to blackmail thousands, hundreds or even dozens of high profile people in succession over decades is ridiculous.

I also notice you didn't respond to the point I made about your statements. I get it, no one really wants to read through this stuff. I don't, and I haven't read every lurid detail. But the official claim has never been illegality by third parties outside of Epstein.
 
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ProtoByte said:
No, not through blackmail. You keep deferring to that idea. The notion that an intel body, let alone an individual would be able to blackmail thousands, hundreds or even dozens of high profile people in succession over decades is ridiculous.
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Why is it ridiculous? Pedophile rings exist, powerful people are prone to get their rocks off in ever escalating ways to duplicate the initial dopamine rush, there's bound to be some guy who's offering the "crème de la crème" experience and perceived discretion, Epstein is not a bad candidate for that.

And let's say they have high-fidelity incriminating evidence of all of these powerful people having sex with minors, drunk with power, thinking nothing can touch them because they are so powerful (and so far proven right!), made aware after the fact that Epstein has a dead man's switch if he's brought down, so they can keep doing what they're doing and keep their mouths shut and do the Mossad's bidding, or whoever's, what would they choose? It would hardly be a choice.

I'm not saying Epstein was that guy, but I can easily see it (and multiple similar organizations existing in the world). In fact, I would be shocked if there didn't exist orgy organizations catering to every taste of the rich and powerful. States using that as a means of control I would also not find surprising.
 
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EviLore said:
Well…




Article:
The 2003 birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein reported on by the WSJ, bearing Donald Trump's name and found in a leather-bound album compiled by Ghislaine Maxwell, features the outline of a nude woman and a strange dialogue between Trump and Epstein.

In the dialogue, Trump notes that, "We have certain things in common, Jeffrey." Jeffrey replies, "Yes, we do, come to think of it."

Trump then remarks, "Enigmas never age, have you noticed that?" and closes, saying, "A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy Birthday — and may every day be another wonderful secret."

Trump has called the letter fake.
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yeah, he f***ed kids for sure.
 
ProtoByte said:
He was not "well known" as a pedo at the time of the alleged writing. He was first charged in 2005. The alleged letter was supposedly written in 2003. Trump actually banned Epstein from Mar A Lago in '07.


Potential intelligence cooperation with the Intercontinental Accounting Group and Iran-Contra aside, you just don't understand how things work if you think that not having a degree barred you from climbing the socioeconomic ladder, especially in the 80s.


The FBI has not actually said what you are saying. You are not reading properly, if at all.
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I meant that it's a weird thing to say about a well-known pedophile today, yes. As in, given Epstein is a well-known pedophile, Trump taking about how "enigmas never age" and "may every day be a wonderful secret" is really strange. But I do also want to point out that Trump's infamous quote about how Epstein "likes them on the younger side" is from 2002, so I think there is some evidence he knew.
 
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DeafTourette said:
False.

Reuter: though Trump, along with Ali and Parks, was a recipient of one of the inaugural Ellis Island Medals of Honor, it was given in acknowledgement of his German heritage and his contributions to New York's business and real estate world

Nothing about 'promoting an integrated community '
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Oh good grief, are you really calling into question the ideals of the Ellis Island Award? Like they would pick a guy who is a notorious racist and sex offender just 'cause he build a few hotels? For the FIRST YEAR they started handing out medals?

"Individuals who have made it their mission to share with those less fortunate, their wealth of knowledge, indomitable courage, boundless compassion, unique talents and selfless generosity. They do so while acknowledging their debt to their ethnic heritage as they uphold the ideals and spirit of America."


According to the report, "the winners, a mixture of prominent and relatively unknown citizens, were screened by the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations, which was selected for the work by the foundation." The list of recipients describes Trump as "German, developer," Parks as "African-American, activist" and Ali as "African-American, boxer."
According to its website, the Ellis Island Honors Society "honors the importance of immigration to America's prosperity and celebrates the contributions immigrants and their progeny have made to our nation" (www.eihonors.org/). 1986 was the inaugural year for the Ellis Island Medals of Honor, which are "presented annually to those who have shown an outstanding commitment to serving our nation either professionally, culturally or civically, among other criteria."

Think what you want but Trump has helped folks, from across the spectrum. You can duck and weave all you want that the award citation didn't specifically mention racially loaded terms we would understand today but the very FOUNDATION of the award is to celebrate cultural diversity from immigrants and their positive achievements. Would a notorious racist who specifically excluded blacks or hispanics or whatever from jobs or interacting in his real estate properties be one of THE FIRST PEOPLE to receive it?
 
DrFigs said:
I meant that it's a weird thing to say about a well-known pedophile today, yes. As in, given Epstein is a well-known pedophile, Trump taking about how "enigmas never age" and "may every day be a wonderful secret" is really strange. But I do also want to point out that Trump's infamous quote about how Epstein "likes them on the younger side" is from 2002, so I think there is some evidence he would have known.
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Epstein was 50 in 2002, so saying "he likes 'em on the younger side" is also how you would describe Leonardo Decaprio as well.

Not defending Epstein, but rather the word choice from guys in their 50's has a lot more interpretations than "pedo".
 
jason10mm said:
Epstein was 50 in 2002, so saying "he likes 'em on the younger side" is also how you would describe Leonardo Decaprio as well.

Not defending Epstein, but rather the word choice from guys in their 50's has a lot more interpretations than "pedo".
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Yes, but why would you make a charitable interpretation of "President Grab 'Em by the Pussy", a guy who bragged about creeping on 15-year-old girls in Miss Teen USA dressing rooms while they were getting undressed, and wants to fuck his own daughter? Hardly a stretch to say he knew what was going on with the guy who was his best friend for a decade.
 
Honestly sad to see people still twisting themselves into pretzels to downplay/defend his ass.

I almost want a sip of that kool-aid, I could use the break from reality.
 
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jason10mm said:
Oh good grief, are you really calling into question the ideals of the Ellis Island Award? Like they would pick a guy who is a notorious racist and sex offender just 'cause he build a few hotels? For the FIRST YEAR they started handing out medals?

"Individuals who have made it their mission to share with those less fortunate, their wealth of knowledge, indomitable courage, boundless compassion, unique talents and selfless generosity. They do so while acknowledging their debt to their ethnic heritage as they uphold the ideals and spirit of America."


According to the report, "the winners, a mixture of prominent and relatively unknown citizens, were screened by the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations, which was selected for the work by the foundation." The list of recipients describes Trump as "German, developer," Parks as "African-American, activist" and Ali as "African-American, boxer."
According to its website, the Ellis Island Honors Society "honors the importance of immigration to America's prosperity and celebrates the contributions immigrants and their progeny have made to our nation" (www.eihonors.org/). 1986 was the inaugural year for the Ellis Island Medals of Honor, which are "presented annually to those who have shown an outstanding commitment to serving our nation either professionally, culturally or civically, among other criteria."

Think what you want but Trump has helped folks, from across the spectrum. You can duck and weave all you want that the award citation didn't specifically mention racially loaded terms we would understand today but the very FOUNDATION of the award is to celebrate cultural diversity from immigrants and their positive achievements. Would a notorious racist who specifically excluded blacks or hispanics or whatever from jobs or interacting in his real estate properties be one of THE FIRST PEOPLE to receive it?
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I didn't call him a racist. You injected that into our conversation. I said he is a con man. I stand by that because of his whole PUBLIC history of being one.

The Ellis Isle Medal of Freedom wasn't about civil rights or "we are the world" or anything to do about diversity... It was about significant contributions to multiple facets of society. Foe Trump, it was about his German heritage and his business and real estate machinations.

I still love you brother and we're just on opposite ends of Trump world. And that's ok.
 
I haven't been in here since around page 8 so apologies if something like this has already been posted.

I saw a short video on Facebook today that summarized why this is blowing up in Trump's face, and it's basically this: "It's not what you said but how you said it."

This entire administration campaigned on accountability and "draining the swamp". He specifically name dropped the Epstein files during the campaign. He nominated (or accepted the hiring of) people who had spent years talking about it. He let his AG run out a dog and pony show with the white binders and influencers and "phase one".

So when he does a complete 180, he shouldn't be shocked people are pissed off. But then to completely melt down, start throwing around his favorite dismissive term ("hoax"), and call his own supporters stupid and weak?

This is a masterclass in how NOT to run an administration. They would have been far better off not talking about it at all then coming out some time later saying something like "After an exhaustive investigation into the matter, we have found that much of the evidence was destroyed by the prior administration and we cannot adequately investigate further". There still would have been some push back, but nothing like what has happened so far. That kind of statement would have been believable, especially to his base.

Every time Trump opens his mouth (or Truth Social) on this now, he digs the hole deeper. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "The POTUS doth protest too much, methinks."
 
jason10mm said:
Epstein was 50 in 2002, so saying "he likes 'em on the younger side" is also how you would describe Leonardo Decaprio as well.

Not defending Epstein, but rather the word choice from guys in their 50's has a lot more interpretations than "pedo".
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This is a good point. I'm not saying it's iron clad definitive proof. But given that he is a pedo, it's also not nothing.
 
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DeafTourette said:
I didn't call him a racist. You injected that into our conversation. I said he is a con man. I stand by that because of his whole PUBLIC history of being one.

The Ellis Isle Medal of Freedom wasn't about civil rights or "we are the world" or anything to do about diversity... It was about significant contributions to multiple facets of society. Foe Trump, it was about his German heritage and his business and real estate machinations.

I still love you brother and we're just on opposite ends of Trump world. And that's ok.
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My point was that he got the award and posed with some pretty notable black folks, which suggests he's not racist/xenophobic as stated by another poster (the one I was responding to). Now its possible that by 1970s/80s standards he was a swell guy, enough to get this award that seems pretty focused on not handing it to nazi types, but by 2020 standards he almost hitler. But I think that he's not a racist OR xenophobic, so long as illegal rapists aren't the topic.

Now sexist and pervvy, yeah. But whether he actually had sex with an underaged girl, I don't think that is likely. Might be, especially in the 70's/80's when that sort of thing was still fairly tolerated but he seemed to have easy access to lots of adult women. And the age of consent in New York was 17, so entirely possible to "like them young" and still be legal (Jerry Seinfeld & Woody Allen would fit this).

I love you too, this is a bullshitting over beers level discussion, not worth getting overly worked up about.
 
jason10mm said:
Oh good grief, are you really calling into question the ideals of the Ellis Island Award? Like they would pick a guy who is a notorious racist and sex offender just 'cause he build a few hotels? For the FIRST YEAR they started handing out medals?

"Individuals who have made it their mission to share with those less fortunate, their wealth of knowledge, indomitable courage, boundless compassion, unique talents and selfless generosity. They do so while acknowledging their debt to their ethnic heritage as they uphold the ideals and spirit of America."


According to the report, "the winners, a mixture of prominent and relatively unknown citizens, were screened by the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations, which was selected for the work by the foundation." The list of recipients describes Trump as "German, developer," Parks as "African-American, activist" and Ali as "African-American, boxer."
According to its website, the Ellis Island Honors Society "honors the importance of immigration to America's prosperity and celebrates the contributions immigrants and their progeny have made to our nation" (www.eihonors.org/). 1986 was the inaugural year for the Ellis Island Medals of Honor, which are "presented annually to those who have shown an outstanding commitment to serving our nation either professionally, culturally or civically, among other criteria."

Think what you want but Trump has helped folks, from across the spectrum. You can duck and weave all you want that the award citation didn't specifically mention racially loaded terms we would understand today but the very FOUNDATION of the award is to celebrate cultural diversity from immigrants and their positive achievements. Would a notorious racist who specifically excluded blacks or hispanics or whatever from jobs or interacting in his real estate properties be one of THE FIRST PEOPLE to receive it?
Click to expand...

I just want to point out that the award reflects his actions and contributions prior to receiving it. It has no bearing on anything he may have said or done afterward. Personally, I don't believe he's racist, I just think he's an idiot.
 
During the 2024 campaign, Trump and his allies repeatedly brought up Jeffrey Epstein, often trying to tie Democrats, especially Bill Clinton, to Epstein's crimes. His supporters pushed slogans like "Release the Epstein files" and "Where's the list?" to suggest it would take down powerful liberal figures.

Now, Trump is calling it all a "Democrat hoax." Only an idiot believes that out of 330 million something Americans none of them are laughing their asses off right now.

Edit: I mentioned the 2016 campaign in error. I originally started writing about something else related to that campaign but changed direction midway and forgot to go back and remove it. So I corrected the first sentence.

Edit 2: Changed from 2020 to 2024 also. Gosh, I should avoid posting while tipsy. :messenger_pensive:
 
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jason10mm said:
My point was that he got the award and posed with some pretty notable black folks, which suggests he's not racist/xenophobic as stated by another poster (the one I was responding to). Now its possible that by 1970s/80s standards he was a swell guy, enough to get this award that seems pretty focused on not handing it to nazi types, but by 2020 standards he almost hitler. But I think that he's not a racist OR xenophobic, so long as illegal rapists aren't the topic.
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Didn't he got sued for racial discrimination in housing ?

 
E-Cat said:
Epstein started out in '74 as a math teacher at The Dalton, was dismissed a couple years later for poor performance, then somehow landed a role tutoring the son of Bear Stearns CEO. He soon became a money manager for billionaires. The Apollo Global Management Chairman Leon Black paid him $158 million for tax and estate planning services, he must be one hell of a tax attorney. A guy with no pedigree (or degree!) failing upwards, it does raise an eyebrow...

It ultimately doesn't matter the level of "professionalism" of the operation or whatever you wanna call it, I think we can agree that he was a slimy guy who liked having slimy guys over to fuck his underage prostitutes, and recorded thousands of hours of video evidence; the FBI raided it all, they admitted to the videos' existence, yet the only person currently serving a prison sentence for all this is Ghislaine Maxwell, which is fucking absurd. Why has no one else been prosecuted if there's not some cover-up?
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Thousands of hours of video evidence? Since when?

One witness claimed there were tapes with Prince Andrew and Clinton and she was debunked and recanted. That's all I've ever heard of beyond just people claiming there must have been blackmail tapes.
 
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IntentionalPun said:
Thousands of hours of video evidence? Since when?

One witness claimed there were tapes with Prince Andrew and Clinton and she was debunked and recanted. That's all I've ever heard of beyond just people claiming there must have been blackmail tapes.
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Pam Bondi, last week, said that they recovered thousands of hours of videos. hard to believe this is just videos of victims + epstein and no one else. I mean she's clearly unreliable - it's hard to believe thousands of hours of videos were recovered and if that much were discovered, even more doubtful that it's all sex material - but then she is the attorney general.
 
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