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[Dilbert]

If you're really concerned move to Cuba, North Korea, or Iran. They really hate Bush in all of those places and you would probably love it there.

That was over the line.

 

[videogamer]

Hammy, I wake up and enjoy my life no matter who is president. My local government has a greater effect on my day-to-day life, and that's a fact.

Again, the hysterical shit is a waste of time. You're all going to be fine. If you're really concerned move to Cuba, North Korea, or Iran. They really hate Bush in all of those places and you would probably love it there.

Uh why do you name Cuba, North Korea, or Iran? Why not countries like Canada or New Zealand where we would suffer less culture shock? Not only that, Canada accepts like 200000 people a year as a policy. BTW, if you had been reading the arguments, you would know that dislike of Bush is not the only reason to move out of the country. So don't try to pigeonhole us as simple Bush haters.

 

[Greenpanda]

The doom-n-gloom talk isn't so much about kerry losing- hell, screw kerry. It's about waking up the next day and realizing half the population literally doesn't want the same society you do.

I couldn't have said it any better. The divide now isn't just a matter of policy - of what the best way to achieve our goals is. It's a matter of completely different worldviews, which isn't something that debate can do much to change. And, unfortunately, the civilized folk are in the minority

 

[Dan]

I couldn't have said it any better. The divide now isn't just a matter of policy - of what the best way to achieve our goals is. It's a matter of completely different worldviews, which isn't something that debate can do much to change. And, unfortunately, the civilized folk are in the minority

Thomas L Friedman's NYT editorial has a couple nice ways of illuminating this point. Check it out here . You know the drill, BugMeNot.

 

[Bat]

It's not about who won or lost. It's about two halves of the country having such radically different and irreconciable core values. The original author's point is that at some point those differences are greater than any common ground we share just as being American and at that point, the country splits.

 

[Triumph]

Look, this is all ultimately horseshit.

Those who have been paying attention and KNOW, will know that Bush Co. are all about degrading our civil liberties in the name of "the war on terror" over the next four years.

PATRIOT II got leaked, but it doesn't matter. Look for most of the salient, liberty revoking portions of that act to be tacked onto the formation of the new "Intelligence Czar" legislation that was recommended by the 9/11 commission. Soon you won't have the right to think differently... and I am NOT kidding.

Join the ACLU and build a bunker. That's all I'm saying. Oh, and figure out how to mask your IP addy if you don't know already. The govt. is using the PATRIOT act to monitor what you do and say online.

Just hope and pray that middle American citizens will see the truth one day. Since this hope is predicated on the media actually doing their job, I would recommend you build that bunker instead.

 

[Gorey]

Excellent article, thanks for the link. The bit about 'roll call' vs election is particularly good.

 

[MC Safety]

Excuse me? Most people thought that Bush was unbeatable because he was lucky enough to have 9/11 occur under his rule. Even at the final weeks of the election when things were picking up, a majority of Democrats didn't believe that Bush could be beaten.

The Republicans would be whining anyways. I'd go to school and hear them gripe about abortion and Democrats lacking morals. Of course, this would lead to moral decay and the destruction of Christian America. I just find my viewpoint to be more valid.

Who thought Bush couldn't be beaten? Right up until the election every media outlet indicated there was only a one- or two-point difference.

Kerry made the unthinkable possible -- he made voting against Bush seem unpalatable.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Though the article reaks of sour grapes, I have wondered if there would be another American revolution or atleast an attempt for people to seperate from the rest of the country. The only thing is if anything like that even came close to starting, there would be the military there to squash it immediately. But one thing that cannot be denied by either side is there is a large amount of dissatisfaction by a huge chunk of the country and much mistrust of the government. Even many conservatives don't think the US governemtn actually carries out the will of the citizens.

No, I am not expecting 2 countries here in my lifetime. But I am expecting a serious challenge to or a change in the status quo within the next 15 years. Probably a change in philosophy or something political.

 

[Guileless]

If you really hate Bush and people who voted for him, it would be hypocritical to move to Canada or New Zealand. Sure they hate Bush there but they also rely on the US for security and economic reasons and will never sever their basic ties to this country no matter who is elected president. If you really wanted to show the Bushies, you should go to the real anti-Bush, anti-US countries that I mentioned. No hypocrisy in those places, just true blue Bush hating backed up by action.

The Democrats controlled the presidency and both houses of Congress in 1993. Things change, that's the nature of the system.

I voted for Kerry because I agreed with his positions on domestic policy (especially stem cell research), which to me is more important than foreign policy. But that doesn't mean I won't argue with the poorly thought out anti-American ranting that is so prevalent around here.

 

[Raven.]

FYI, Diebold didn't even make a majority of the electronic voting systems out there. Electronic voting systems come from a variety of manufacturers.

Hah, have ye looked into them? They're for ITS construction, they're guided by the divine light of God. JESUSLAND"S construction CANNOT BE STOPPED!!! IT'S THINE FATE.

. No matter how hard they tried, there seemed to be one serious impediment to enacting God's will on Earth: democracy. Those godless heathens kept on insisting on their right to vote. What would Jesus do in a situation like that?

According to the Reconstructionists, Jesus would do what Howard Ahmanson did. Ahmanson inherited his money from his father, owner of Home Savings & Loan (during the S&L scandal of the Reagan years, Home's investors, mostly small family investments, lost over $150 million dollars. No one went to jail). In addition to funding PACs and think tanks, Howard Jr. parlayed his fortune into the majority stock of a business called American Information Systems (AIS) started by two enterprising brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich. AIS later merged with Business Records Corporation (BRC) and became Election Systems & Solutions (ES&S). ES&S is the number one provider of touch-screen voting machines. Their website claims that their products were used in collecting 56% of the national vote in the last presidential elections.

Todd Urosevich is now Vice President of ES&S. Strangely enough, brother Bob moved on to head the second largest computerized vote-counting business, Global Election Systems, recently purchased by ATM and security giant Diebold. (They now have both the Ohio and Georgia contracts.) In a round table swap of incestuous patronage the previous executives of Global moved on to head the third largest vote-counting company in the nation, Advanced Voting Systems. Combined, these three corporations will process nearly 80% of the next nationwide elections.

"We protect the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Now, we protect the most sacred treasure we have, our secret ballot." -Diebold CEO Wally O'Dell, May 2002.

"My purpose is total integration of biblical law into our lives." -Howard Ahmanson

THe might of God is unstoppable, ye must bow down and fear it.... it's thine Destiny.

The future of your country has been decided, if ye could not stop Theonomic Reconstructionism, ye must face the consequences.... they will use the power that they've easily taken.

 

[pestul]

Thanks for that.. made me burst out laughing at work. :lol

I really needed it too. I was late for work this morning, and that's a major no-no when you work security and are not replacing a worker.

Damned power bump combined with the failure of a backup battery powered alarm. It sounds completely implausible.. but it happened. :X

 

[Sirpopopop]

Wait a second Guileless... New Zealand relies on the U.S for security reasons?!?!??!

Shit... When the fuck did New Zealand ever need our help to fend off anything. Are they worried about the threat of the rise of the Maori people once again!!!??!?!?!?

 

[Boogie]

Wait a second Guileless... New Zealand relies on the U.S for security reasons?!?!??!

Shit... When the fuck did New Zealand ever need our help to fend off anything. Are they worried about the threat of the rise of the Maori people once again!!!??!?!?!?

for security and economic reasons

.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

PATRIOT II got leaked, but it doesn't matter.

wait, what? are you serious?

 

[Gorey]

Why is it so difficult to stop seeing the 'OMG bush teh HITLER, must leave country' and recognize the 'I fear irreconcilable differences, and the future that may bringt'? The first may be short-lived and reactionary (for most), but the second is a serious point backed up by logical reasoning.

But all I keep hearing is "If you hate bush then _____". Statements to the effect that hating Bush means they should move to a country that actively wishes the US harm, is blatantly assuming they therefore hate AMERICA. Do I really have to explain the difference in any more detail?

 

[videogamer]

Who thought Bush couldn't be beaten? Right up until the election every media outlet indicated there was only a one- or two-point difference.

Kerry made the unthinkable possible -- he made voting against Bush seem unpalatable.

If you had read my post, you would have known that the polls showed that many Democrats felt that Bush would eventually win.

Guileless: read the many of the posts again. This isn't just about Bush. But somehow you are intent on focusing on just him.

 

[BlackClouds]

wait, what? are you serious?

Unfortunately he is very serious. Believe me, I wish he was joking. I wish this was all just one big joke.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Hey Boogie...

He said "and" not "or".

Big difference.

 

[Acrylamid]

Unfortunately he is very serious. Believe me, I wish he was joking. I wish this was all just one big joke.

Link?
Not that I don't believe you, but I'm interested in what changes would come with it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

This country is not going to disintegrate after 200 years because of a 51-48 election. This hysterical chicken little act is really getting old. I voted for Kerry, but you know what? I woke up Wednesday morning and everything was allright.

wednesday? wow...
it took me until thursday to really accept it...
four more years isn't all that depressing now...

especially if it means four more years of this...

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

Unfortunately he is very serious. Believe me, I wish he was joking. I wish this was all just one big joke.

link me up, Scotty.

 

[geogaddi]

What does Sega and Democrats have in common?

 

[Matlock]

http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtaw...3_Doc_1.pdf]Patriot Act II: Electric Boogaloo

http://www.alternet.org/story/15541 And a nice cliffnotes version of it.

"And many of PATRIOT I's 'sunset provisions' -- stipulating that the expanded new enforcement powers would be rescinded in 2005 -- would be erased from the books, cementing Ashcroft's rushed legislation in the law books. As UPI noted March 10, "These sunset provisions were a concession to critics of the bill in Congress."'

 

[Outdoor Miner]

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11835&C=206

Fucking scary.