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[Represent.]

Thanks!

I'm going to be running thru HFW later this month when my PS5 comes and then the new God Of War next month, then hunting for those sweet, sweet blackfriday deals for the rest, Demon Souls remake, GT7, Last Of Us remake etc.

Make sure you upgrade that TV too eventually, that’s the real next gen upgrade

Forbidden West and TLOU Remake look especially great

 

[Beechos]

This game was such a ubisoft snoozefest with its collectathon and grinding. The 1st one was good since it was something fresh at the time with its setting and combat, the characters and story were weak as hell i felt. Part 2 the story and characters are even worse, the newly introduced foreign looking characters who wouldve made the story and combat more interesting were merely a footnote. It kinda reminded me of mgs v where you have this dope ass intro with this bad ass fire god looking mofo which looks to set the tempo for the whole game and bam you never see him again cept for a quick second.

This game felt like a glorified expansion that ran too long.
Hell i thought the expansion was better than this.

 

[EDMIX]

Make sure you upgrade that TV too eventually, that’s the real next gen upgrade

Forbidden West and TLOU Remake look especially great

True.

I have a 4K set up from 2018 with a Samsung QLED, only thing I'd want really is OLED, but I'm going to wait till the 8K prices drop to get one or something.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I probably shouldn’t have played the first game so soon before Forbidden West, because it felt like I was playing the same game except for added grinding for upgrading gear and awful side quest NPC voice acting. NPCs should sound like they are from a tribal society, not like that just came out of Starbucks with their pumpkin spice latte or whatever.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

HZD everythign was new and interesting and the Cauldrons were for me the wow factor. HFW ended up being too much of everything, like they had no filter when to stop making random quests or hunts...and that dialogue wheel especially in the Base, everyone has something to say at all times. Like make it meaningful talk, not ask 20 times throughout the game how is their focus training going. Instead I wish it would of been opened to that like 2 times max so they actually say something surprising and funny...humans used to fight, humans used to drink, himans used hunt bla bla bla. Also Beta, i wanted to kick her in the crotch, didnt even bother talking to her the whole game.

 

[balls of snow]

The best part of the game is how that loner aspect of Aloy develops and she actually grows to accept that she needs the power of friendship to defeat her enemies.
Bad part is the overall story.

 

[Humdinger]

...it looks like someone, somewhere around Sony offices is handing down this checklist of things that needs to be implemented which not necessarily were meant by the original creators. Many times it feels that things were good in the first place because the people in charge had creative freedom, the moment that game becomes popular, then here comes the checklist.

Yes, the original felt more creative (not just because it was new). This one feels like there have been too many cooks in the kitchen, all wanting to throw their contribution into the pot -- or else a victim of committee, like you say.

She has a fat face, refunded

Hah. Actually, that was one thing I was relieved about. From the early hubbub, I thought they'd made her unattractive. She's less attractive than in the first game, but she's not Lizzo in tribal gear. She still looks good.

I probably shouldn’t have played the first game so soon before Forbidden West, because it felt like I was playing the same game except for added grinding for upgrading gear and awful side quest NPC voice acting. NPCs should sound like they are from a tribal society, not like that just came out of Starbucks with their pumpkin spice latte or whatever.

Yeah, there were a couple of points that characters used modern slang. That stuff always pulls me out of the game. For instance, I heard an Oseram delver talking about a harrowing experience say, "I was shaken. Not stirred." So people a millennia in the future, with almost no knowledge of the Old World, are making James Bond quips. Sure.

Not a big deal, but it does bug me. Come on, writers.

and that dialogue wheel especially in the Base, everyone has something to say at all times. Like make it meaningful talk, not ask 20 times throughout the game how is their focus training going. Instead I wish it would of been opened to that like 2 times max so they actually say something surprising and funny...humans used to fight, humans used to drink, himans used hunt bla bla bla. Also Beta, i wanted to kick her in the crotch, didnt even bother talking to her the whole game.

I know what you mean about the Base. I kind of dread returning there, because I know everyone will have something to say about several different subjects. I feel obligated to make the rounds. After all, they are my compadres, so I should talk to them. But it gets tedious.

I do appreciate the added dialog in the game, because it helps you get to know characters as individual personalities rather than as just quest dispensers. But it can definitely get excessive in this game. I'll end up hitting X to move it forward. Shut up already, lol.

The best part of the game is how that loner aspect of Aloy develops and she actually grows to accept that she needs the power of friendship to defeat her enemies.

I'm only halfway through, so I'm not in a position to judge the overall story. But the problem as I see it is that the writers had to change Aloy's personality, in order to create this character arc. In the original game, Aloy wasn't an impatient loner who needed to do it all herself, irritated that others wanted to help. She got plenty of help -- from Rost, from Teersa, from Erend, from Avad, from Talanah... even from Sylens. If you remember the final battle, there were others fighting alongside her. She wasn't some detached loner, doing it all by herself.

I understand the writer's desire to create a character arc for the second game, but they did it by refashioning Aloy's personality. They made her into an impatient loner who wanted to do everything by herself and "don't need nobody." That's not who she was in the first game. So the character arc feels artificially set up.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Humdinger Are you still a fan of the franchise (excited for Horizon 3) or has Forbidden West soured you?

Great review btw.

 

[funkygunther]

There are amazing bits like underground Vegas, the flower hippy village, the sunshine coast, all the facial animations and the sheer scale of the map. But when I’m reminded of the game, the first thing that comes to my mind is pushing a crate around a ruined hotel so I can reach a higher ledge. That shouldn’t be my first memory but after the novelty of everything in the first game this one, gameplay wise, was banal.

 

[Humdinger]

OP here. I'm going to adjust my playstyle, see if I can enjoy it more that way. I'm going to stop fussing about upgrades, the relics, the melee challenges, and all the other stuff the game wants me to do. I'm just going to do the things I enjoy.

That's different than how I played the original. I platinumed the original and happily did every side-activity the game offered. I can't take that same approach here.

 

[Kurotri]

Tbh I liked FW way more than ZD in pretty much all aspects. I felt it was actually fun and more engaging, and the lore is as always fascinating with Sylas being cool af. The music was beautiful, the story kept me interested, the machines are nice and the game world felt way more alive. I found the first one kinda boring, only liking the lore and the machines, the rest wasn't really there. FW felt more complete to me.

However I still have to agree with all your negatives OP, especially your second point. The game felt way too big and way too long after a while and there was a lot of unnecessary fluff, Ubisoft style. I just gave up going to marked areas after some time because I genuinely had had my fill.

Anyway great write-up OP.

 

[Humdinger]

nm

 

[remember_spinal]

OP here. For anyone still listening, I ended up enjoying the game much more than my OP suggested. I've put twice as much time into the game as I had before (level 50, nearing 100 hours). Here is how I'd revise my OP list of pros and cons:

Good Stuff

- Much deeper sidequests than in the first game. Multi-layered.

- Much more quest-related dialog, including contextual talk during quests and follow-up talk after quests.

- Companions and side characters are fleshed-out. In the first game, only Aloy and maybe one or two others felt like distinct individuals. Here, though, there are more than a dozen well-realized characters. That's rare in a videogame. This is done largely through dialog, which admittedly can feel overdone at times (e.g., conversations at the Base), and also through participation in quests.

- The story is good. I thought the first game's story was great (intriguing, well-told, large scope), and that anything that followed would feel very weak by comparison. Although the second game's story is no match for the first's, they still managed to put together an interesting story with several good twists.

- The visuals are greatly improved, all around. The original Horizon was a real looker, so this is no small feat. Environments, textures, visual effects, facial animation, everything is significantly improved.

- Combat is fun. It feels more hectic and fast-paced than in the first game, and some of the new machines are tough, but once I got some good gear and levelled up, I was having just as much fun with the combat as I did in the original. Plenty of action and room for strategy.

- Adds a vertical dimension. The glide wing is fun, and so are other things added later in the story. The vertical dimension plays a role in combat that wasn't there in the first game.

- I enjoyed the new environments. The original Horizon had beautiful natural environments. That was one of my favorite things about it. This one is the same. Lots of lush, beautifully rendered environments.

- They certainly didn't skimp on adding new machines, armor, weapons, and tribes, rather than just recycling the old ones. They also added some interesting new combat mechanics (e.g., weapon stamina, valor surge).

- Various tweaks that help the game. For example, easier fast-travel, ability to reset skill points, ability to tag machine parts.


Not So Good Stuff

- Although all the new additions are good on one level, on another level it's all a bit overwhelming. The game feels overstuffed. For instance, there are what, 7 or 8 different elemental effects and resistances? Each machine has different ones, and you have to carry weapons and manage coils for all the different permutations. Less is more, guys. I preferred the simplicity of the original game.

- I didn't enjoy melee in the first game, and I still don't like it here. I just don't find whacking people with a spear satisfying. They did a lot to improve it, but I just didn't care. Fortunately, you can leave that part of the game alone without hurting yourself much. I think of Aloy as a bow hunter, not a melee fighter.

- I enjoyed the main mission, the side quests, the rebel camps, and the Tallnecks. But I had little interest in all the miscellaneous subquests -- the black boxes, the relic ruins, the rebel outposts, the melee pit challenges, games of Strike, the collectibles, and whatever else I've forgotten. I platinumed the first game, but I won't bother with this one. There's just too much to do.

- They nerfed some things, like the Tripcaster, Ropecaster, and fire damage. I assume they had reason to do that, but I enjoyed those things in the first game and felt their absence in the second.


A few other notes:

- I complained in my OP that Aloy was less likeable. After playing through more of the game, I can see that was just the early set up, and it's really not true overall. She gets back to normal fairly soon. This game actually fleshes her out as a human being more than the first game did. Granted, some of the character arc is a little cheesy, but I liked it.

- I complained in my OP about lack of humor. That was remedied in the second half, too.


Overall, I'm enjoying the game quite a bit now. It's a 9/10 for me. I did have to adjust my approach, though. Specifically, I focused less on the upgrade grind and decided not to fret about all the mini-subquests.

I’m glad you ended up enjoying it. Its currently tied with elden ring as my GOTY and btw the platinum isn’t very hard to get, i didn’t do a lot of those black box and droid type of stuff either. You only really have to play like two games of strike after the tutorial and you can just buy OP pieces and clear them quickly.

This was actually a pretty fun plat to get and they don’t require you to complete anywhere near 100% of the game. I’m glad i went back and got it because i did a bunch of mission i didnt do before because i wanted to play elden ring.

Like the hot air balloon mission was one i skipped the first time and seeing it now i feel dumb cause it has the production levels of a main mission. That along with some other stuff. I didn’t even run into the clamberjaws the first time

I think a lot of people that gave up on it kind of went in with a cynical attitude towards it for whatever reason and quit early on in the Gaunt which is like the most boring part of the game. The game really opens up once you get the shieldwing and can really start exploring the west. Horizon and Witcher 3 start similarly where the first big area of the map is entirely meant to be a tutorial area, which is ironically where a lot of people also give up on Witcher

 

[onnextflix5]

Hated the first game, as it felt like I was running around in circles, thought it was because, I had no patience for open world games, but then I played botw, and loved every second of it, the exploration is magical, they improved a lot of things in this game, but has the same flaws as the first, u can walk like a hundred miles, u feel like ur going nowhere, hand combat is still one dimensional,

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I'm halfway through Forbidden West (Level 26), and I like it equal to Zero Dawn. I give both these games an 8 out of 10, although I think Forbidden West could be a 9 if they just edited it down! Too much game. Too much filler. A 10 out of 10 for me gives me reactions that I treasure at nearly every inflection point of story and combat. This game has enough "treasures" and impactful moments to make it next-level, but too much downtime and bloat between them leaves me looking back on the overall experience with ambivalence.

 

[Ocean Dweller]

It's probably my most played game this gen after Returnal

Graphics: 9.5
Gameplay: 8.9
Story: 9
Audio: 10

story is too high. story in 1 is a 9. this is like a 6-7

 

[Hobbygaming]

story is too high. story in 1 is a 9. this is like a 6-7

I liked this one's story better but I also spoiled myself on the 1st game's story because at the time i thought i would never play it

 

[Balducci30]

If you think Horizon stunk, this thread isn't for you. I'm talking to people who enjoyed the first game but are maybe having troubles with the second. Don't post story spoilers, please. I'm only halfway through.

The original Horizon was my favorite game of last gen. I loved the combat, the environments, and the story a lot. I enjoyed it so much that I played it through three times. Granted, some of those replays were because I couldn't find anything else I wanted to play.

I recently got a PS5, bundled with HFW. I've put about 50 hours into it so far. Here are my thoughts.

edit: See this post for updated impressions after 100 hours:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/thou...of-the-original.1642511/page-2#post-266752181


Good Things

1. Much deeper sidequests than in the first game. Some of the sidequests have been quite good.
2. There is much more dialog in the game, including follow-up dialog with characters from side-quests. They put a lot of work in.
3. Although it takes a while to get going, the story takes some unexpected turns. It's not as intriguing as the first game, but it's a sequel, so that's expected.
4. Lip synch and facial animations are much improved. This makes the emotions much easier to read. It helps interactions feel more real.
5. Visually, the game is a lot better than the first. The first was already a looker, so that's no mean feat. Environments, textures on clothing, effects, everything.
6. Ability to tag machine parts. Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember that being in the first game. Very helpful.
7. There is much more verticality. The glide wing is fun. Nice addition. I'm still learning how to use it in combo with the Pullcaster (another nice addition).
8. Plenty of new machines, new armor, new societies, new environments, new weapons, and new mechanics. They certainly didn't half-ass it in that department.
9. Ability to reset skill points. I appreciate them adding this option.
10. Combat is still fun and engaging. Plenty of options and room for strategy.

Not So Good Things

1. The game feels crowded and overstuffed. Although I listed "new stuff" as a positive, I think they overdid it. There are multitudes of quests, dozens of quest subcategories, a constant influx of new machines, new settlements, new people, new armor, new weapons, new mechanics, and icons all over the map. More is not necessarily better. Sometimes less is more. I liked the original's world. It didn't feel empty to me. It felt edited. Like a good sentence is concise, not overstuffed with verbiage. This feels more like a Ubisoft game, with a crowded map full of icons and tasks. It makes me feel like I have an endless to-do list.

2. At a certain point, it dawned on me that I wasn't enjoying the game so much as checking off boxes. It felt more like I "should" play it, because I needed to get X or Y accomplished, rather than wanting to play it because I was having fun or wanted to see what happened next. I'm not sure if this complaint is specific to Horizon FW or just a part of my general dissatisfaction with videogames, because the same complaint can be levelled at a lot of games. It feels more like I'm being "hooked" into playing, in order to tick something off the to-do list, rather than just enjoying the game.

3. Aloy is less pleasant to be around this time. She's not unpleasant, but she's less likeable. In the original, she was strong, but she was also, at times, confused, sad, and overwhelmed. She even developed a sense of humor in the Frozen Wilds. This time, she is more remote, more "masculine" in a way. Headstrong. "I don't need nobody. I've got to save the world, and nobody can do it but me." I haven't seen any humor in the game so far, apart from Erend being comic relief. I know her attitude (doing it alone) is part of the character arc, so I get why they set it up that way, but still... I enjoyed hanging out with the original Aloy. This version, not so much. She also has a very breathy voice that she didn't have in the original.

4. The way Avad, Erend, and Varl all simp for her in the beginning. Cringey. Particularly Erend. Reel it in, guys. Sheesh.

5. I am getting a little tired of seeing spindly-armed women in charge of tribes or troops. I understood it with the Nora; they are a matriarchal society. But here it's happening everywhere, in all the societies: little woman in charge of burly men. To be clear, I'm not objecting because it's "woke." I'm objecting because 1) it's unrealistic, and 2) it pulls me out of the game.

It's unrealistic because warrior tribes -- societies that are based on violence and fighting -- would not have women in charge 50% of the time. Occasionally, sure, but half the time? I can only suspend disbelief so many times. And it pulls me out of the game world because it makes me think about the writers and their desire to have equal gender representation in the game. I don't want to be thinking about the writers; I want to be immersed in the game world.

6. Not a fan of having to spam R3 all the time. I had to turn the cliff markers to "always on." Not ideal, because it makes the landscape look artificial, but it's better than having to constantly scan for handholds. Fortunately, I've got enough resources in my stash that I don't have to spam R3 for plants etc. so much as in the beginning.

7. They really nerfed the Tripcaster. Bummer. I enjoyed playing around with that a lot in the first game.


Those are my impressions at the 50 hour mark. The first and second cons have caused me to take a break from the game. I was playing for a few hours every day for a week. I think I burned myself out on it. I'll return to it later. I'm less than halfway through, so these are just preliminary impressions. I may feel differently by the end, who knows.

Yeah it’s a bummer man, it was one of my most anticipated games. Love HZD. I can’t even beat HFW, feels like I’m checking boxes and there’s nothing that grabs me like the first, I’ve tried multiple times considering there are people that say it’s the best game of the year. Sadly just a chore for me - combat feels worse too which was one of my fave things about the first. The climbing is also horrendous. Feels like they convoluted a bunch of stuff that was working in the first game and the result is I just check out completely from playing

 

[ViciousAgenda]

Loved the first game, gave up on this after 20 hours or so.

The combat loop is still good but aloy has become a thoroughly unlikable character and just will not stop talking.

 

[Humdinger]

Finished the game.

I had mixed feelings about the ending. On the one hand, it was dramatic, and the combat was fun. On the other hand, I had some reservations...

Spoiler: ending spoilers

1. The writers threw too much at us in the last 5 minutes -- multiple motivation reveals, reversals, a new enemy, and plot twists. It's a lot to take in.

2. I'm not enthused about Nemesis. It does not feel like a new enemy, just a rehashed version of the Zeniths. I mean, it's their corrupted AI. I just spent the whole game battling the Zeniths, thinking I defeated them, and now I have to deal with their bastard child AI? I'm a bit tired of the "evil AI" theme, too.

3. The ending didn't feel satisfying, because I wasn't allowed to enjoy the victory. I'd been working hard towards defeating the Zeniths, but they didn't give you a chance to enjoy that. Just as the Zeniths were defeated, you are told that Nemesis is on the way to destroy Earth -- an invincible AI that even the Zeniths couldn't handle. I felt like all my work had just delayed the inevitable. It was different in the first game. The first game ending was celebratory (not including the Silens foreshadowing, post-credits). You had saved the world, or at least Meridian. "Yay! Huzzah!" You were allowed to relish the victory. Here, they don't give you even a second to do that before announcing that an even bigger threat is bearing down on you.

Overall, I'd give the game a 7.

 

[rofif]

I probably shouldn’t have played the first game so soon before Forbidden West, because it felt like I was playing the same game except for added grinding for upgrading gear and awful side quest NPC voice acting. NPCs should sound like they are from a tribal society, not like that just came out of Starbucks with their pumpkin spice latte or whatever.

 

[Humdinger]

Flying around on the Sunwing post-game is a lot of fun, though. Spectacular views, very relaxing. I'm just covering the map, poking firegleam, collecting black boxes, and visiting stuff I somehow missed during the main game. The loot is useless at this point, but what the hell. I just like flying around, visiting the "?", and seeing what's there.

I feel a little sad to be leaving the gameworld behind, which is the same way I felt at the end of the first game. I'm not ready for New Game+, though. I've got some leftover activities (gauntlet runs, a couple rebel outposts, some cauldrons), so I might stretch it out a little more.

 

[Bernardougf]

3. Aloy is less pleasant to be around this time. She's not unpleasant, but she's less likeable. In the original, she was strong, but she was also, at times, confused, sad, and overwhelmed. She even developed a sense of humor in the Frozen Wilds. This time, she is more remote, more "masculine" in a way. Headstrong. "I don't need nobody. I've got to save the world, and nobody can do it but me." I haven't seen any humor in the game so far, apart from Erend being comic relief. I know her attitude (doing it alone) is part of the character arc, so I get why they set it up that way, but still... I enjoyed hanging out with the original Aloy. This version, not so much. She also has a very breathy voice that she didn't have in the original.

Yeah Shes kind of a bitch in this game .. not likable at all ... always talking down do everyone and people accepting like shes some kind of big size troll instead of a small woman

Hate to bring this things into discussion but the game has too much feminist tropes imo ... that as the OP already said make it artificial and takes me out of the game.

But i do like the settings and i loved the first game and the idea of hunting big robo dinos is fun .. so ill keep pushing

 

[Madflavor]

I loved HZD and I love Aloy, but this is one of those things where it should've been a standalone story. Don't make a sequel unless you come up with a story that's as good or better than the first. I don't like the mentality where if you release something new and it's a hit, then you have to make trilogy.

I would've preferred Guerilla Games made something new.

 

[remember_spinal]

Flying around on the Sunwing post-game is a lot of fun, though. Spectacular views, very relaxing. I'm just covering the map, poking firegleam, collecting black boxes, and visiting stuff I somehow missed during the main game. The loot is useless at this point, but what the hell. I just like flying around, visiting the "?", and seeing what's there.

I feel a little sad to be leaving the gameworld behind, which is the same way I felt at the end of the first game. I'm not ready for New Game+, though. I've got some leftover activities (gauntlet runs, a couple rebel outposts, some cauldrons), so I might stretch it out a little more.

Hoping for a nice meaty dlc early next year

 

[Hobbygaming]

I'm replaying this for the umpteenth time lol the quality of some of these side quests are really good. I really like the different Tallneck puzzles too and the machine races

 

[mxbison]

I think they just stuffed way too many things in there.

Side quests are good. Ruins are good. Tallnecks are good. No need for like 50 more activities.

Overall a very good game though which got a pretty harsh treatment from many reviewers and players.

 

[Kupfer]

I had to stop playing HFW because for me, except for the really good visuals, it has nothing worth mentioning that is new. the 20 or 30 hours I have played the game now is enough for me as a PS5 tech demo.


Warning, personal opinion incoming :

• the game feels way too bloated
• the characters are unbelievable
• Aloy with her stubborn nature is the worst and just unlikeable
• the movement and climbing are no fun for me
• too bloated controls with too many menus / submenus to navigate through midgame
• invisible level borders in a game that is about discovery are an absolute no-go
• the world and the presentation itself is illogical (and I don't mean that there are robotic dinos, which makes sense within the story, but e.g. that wooden houses from the old times, exposed to the weather, are still standing. another example for presentation; aloy has to save the world all by herself, no matter what the cost, she doesn't have much time left. but playing super detective for everyone and following some trivial tracks, participating in arena and hunting games is definitely in between)
• traversing the landscape is tricky, you get stuck somewhere so often, get slowed down, can't climb
• the story and quests are, except for the great locations, boring and shallow
• why did Aloy unlearn the skills I learned in HZD?
• why doesn't she wear the shield weaver armor that I unlocked in HZD?
• why is there no point to any of this anymore? And now please don't tell me because it's a new game and other games don't do it that way either. We're talking about a supposed flagship title here, so I expect the game to be able to read my old save file and at least do SOMETHING with it - or give me an explanation at the beginning of the game as to why everything is gone. And even if it's the 0815 explanation that you had an accident on the high seas and lost your memory and everything you have. That would still be better than ignoring everything from HZD because it wasn't worth the effort to take care of it properly.

Oh I could go on forever, I have already in other threads, but that does not make the game better. I think I'm also just so disappointed in it because I thought Guerilla Games could do better and can't understand why they decided for the more-of-the-same Ubisoft way
I know,I know - it sells and makes money.

By the way, I happily platinumed the first Horizon and thought it was great.

 

[midnightAI]

I expect the game to be able to read my old save file and at least do SOMETHING with it - or give me an explanation at the beginning of the game as to why everything is gone. And even if it's the 0815 explanation that you had an accident on the high seas and lost your memory and everything you have.

I pretty much disagree with most points you said to be honest, but like you said, personal opinion.

But the above quote especially, because ..... games?

Almost every single game you have played or will ever play will do this. Now this isnt me just waving it off and saying because other games do it they must to, but there are several reasons that game developers do this but the main two reasons (and they are kind of linked) are progression and difficulty. By starting from scratch everyone starts at the same level, this means that the difficulty can be tweaked in such a way that the developers know (roughly) at all points where the player is at in terms of progression. So at the start of the game for example, the developer knows what gear the player has and the amount of upgrades, abilities etc. and so can tune the difficulty of the enemies/bosses. If you had a fully maxed out character from Horizon 1 then you would be able to walk through most of the game as though it was on mega easy mode and then you'd complain that the game was too easy.

 

[Kupfer]

I pretty much disagree with most points you said to be honest, but like you said, personal opinion.

But the above quote especially, because ..... games?

I know I'm in the minority with the few people who also see it the way I do. Just the general mood and the dream scores of all the tests speak against me and for the game. But I feel that way about almost all big blockbuster games, especially the Sony formula seems to tire me. I now prefer games that dare to do something different and allow the player to not have to be guided 24/7, for that I forgive the games their little mistakes.

All cool for people who can get into games like HFW and have 100 hours of fun with it, I just see that it's not for me at the moment.

Almost every single game you have played or will ever play will do this. Now this isnt me just waving it off and saying because other games do it they must to, but there are several reasons that game developers do this but the main two reasons (and they are kind of linked) are progression and difficulty. By starting from scratch everyone starts at the same level, this means that the difficulty can be tweaked in such a way that the developers know (roughly) at all points where the player is at in terms of progression. So at the start of the game for example, the developer knows what gear the player has and the amount of upgrades, abilities etc. and so can tune the difficulty of the enemies/bosses. If you had a fully maxed out character from Horizon 1 then you would be able to walk through most of the game as though it was on mega easy mode and then you'd complain that the game was too easy.

I understand the motivations and how games work and the challenge of finding balancing. I also understand why a developer would choose to use invisible walls. It makes it easy, most players don't notice anyway, and those who do mind can be ignored. I just think it's too easy, it doesn't live up to the expectations of a AAA game, as I imagine it and I think the excuse that games have always done it this way and will always do it this way is cheap. This doesn't lead to progress, which is bitterly needed in the meantime and in the current gen, especially in view of the crossgen releases that are still taking place.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I remember loving the first game, I didn't want it to end and I really enjoyed my time in that "world. The sequel is a different story, as others have said Aloy is just not fun to play as this time, she has zero personality, she seemingly starts every other conversation with a sigh and it's just hard to root for her at this point. The overall story was just silly IMO, I only finished it because I kept hoping against hope that it would get better. The secondary characters were much better this time around than in the first game as were the side missions, the melee combat was still awful though and frankly I think the new weapons added very little. The new mechanics weren't all that fun either and I couldn't believe how boring flying mounts ended up being. They need to stop taking the machines combat abilities away when she overtakes them, there is nothing wrong with letting a character be powerful in a game.

Graphically it's one of the best looking console games out right now if not the best IMO but it had some issues at launch and it took months for them to get fixed, that's not the typical Sony polish and I hope that doesn't happen again. I have no interest in playing as Aloy again, I hope they finish this IP off with DLC (starring Kotallo) and then move on to a fantasy action RPG, Sony needs one of those.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I agree with pretty much everything you said and still think it’s easily one of the best games this gen so far. I turned the show climbing thing to always on real quick. That got annoying fast. It’s also my GOTY so far.

 

[Camreezie]

Its way better than the first game and added a ton of world building imo

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I platinumed it. It's a dumb open-world check-list type of game but sometimes that's what your body needs.

 

[RJMacready73]

I’m at Level 30 and absolutely loving it tbf, picked it up for £30 and I’m constantly blown away by the visuals, loving the story, the gameplay loop, side quests etc and the cauldrons. The sheer variety in locations is breath-taking and the amount of on-screen detail is insane, and this is a cross gen game.. fucking hell these Devs are absolute visual masters, cannot wait to see their next PS5 only game, really looking forward to hitting the coast, so far, I’ve been mopping up side quests and doing as much as I can exploring each new location

 

[Filben]

Overtalked to death by super annoying characters

An issue with many games that can't just have concise and good dialogue.

Overall I found the story and its mystery better in HZD. Everything else was better in HFW. Both games had some likeable characters but rarely someone REALLY interesting.

Ultimately I wouldn't play again both games. Still enjoyed my time with them. Especially the diving parts in HFW.

 

[Humdinger]

Yeah Shes kind of a bitch in this game .. not likable at all ... always talking down do everyone and people accepting like shes some kind of big size troll instead of a small woman

That changes about halfway through. Seems like Guerrila forgot that first impressions are lasting impressions. A lot of people got turned off by early Aloy. She gets back to normal soon enough, though.

Hate to bring this things into discussion but the game has too much feminist tropes imo ... that as the OP already said make it artificial and takes me out of the game.

Ha, speaking of that, I had to roll my eyes about this...

Spoiler: character reveal spoilers

Elizabet turns out to be lesbian. Alva turns out to be lesbian. Tilda turns out to be lesbian. More than half the women in the "inner circle" (if you count Elizabet) are lesbian. If Aloy is played by Rachel Maddow in the sequel, I'm out.

 

[mdkirby]

I loved the first, but yeah I’ve struggled to stick with the second, think I’m 2/3rd through and not touched it for a couple months.

Many things are amazing about it, but yeah too much tickboxing and most importantly somehow aloy is super unlikable.

It’s like absolutely everything and everyone just irritates her. She’ll smile and be polite, but the way she holds her jaw and the intonation in her voice has this undercurrent of sarcasm and irritation. It’s incredibly grating.

I FARRRR prefered Zo as a character, would have rather played as her.

 

[Valonquar]

I'm guessing they only had budget for like one or two days of Angela Basset. Her character was super underutilized and had a incredibly weak end.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I loved the first, but yeah I’ve struggled to stick with the second, think I’m 2/3rd through and not touched it for a couple months.

Many things are amazing about it, but yeah too much tickboxing and most importantly somehow aloy is super unlikable.

It’s like absolutely everything and everyone just irritates her. She’ll smile and be polite, but the way she holds her jaw and the intonation in her voice has this undercurrent of sarcasm and irritation. It’s incredibly grating.

I FARRRR prefered Zo as a character, would have rather played as her.

It was just that time of the month for Aloy during this game.

 

[Ovek]

The story is massively and often very tediously over explained. For a game about a post apocalyptic world with robot dinosaurs you need some JJ Abrams mystery box shit going on.

The gameplay also suffered from ridiculous amounts of weapon / vulnerability type bloat.

 

[itshutton]

OP here. For anyone still listening, I ended up enjoying the game much more than my OP suggested. I've put twice as much time into the game as I had before (level 50, nearing 100 hours). Here is how I'd revise my OP list of pros and cons:

Good Stuff

- Much deeper sidequests than in the first game. Multi-layered.

- Much more quest-related dialog, including contextual talk during quests and follow-up talk after quests.

- Companions and side characters are fleshed-out. In the first game, only Aloy and maybe one or two others felt like distinct individuals. Here, though, there are more than a dozen well-realized characters. That's rare in a videogame. This is done largely through dialog, which admittedly can feel overdone at times (e.g., conversations at the Base), and also through participation in quests.

- The story is good. I thought the first game's story was great (intriguing, well-told, large scope), and that anything that followed would feel very weak by comparison. Although the second game's story is no match for the first's, they still managed to put together an interesting story with several good twists.

- The visuals are greatly improved, all around. The original Horizon was a real looker, so this is no small feat. Environments, textures, visual effects, facial animation, everything is significantly improved.

- Combat is fun. It feels more hectic and fast-paced than in the first game, and some of the new machines are tough, but once I got some good gear and levelled up, I was having just as much fun with the combat as I did in the original. Plenty of action and room for strategy.

- Adds a vertical dimension. The glide wing is fun, and so are other things added later in the story. The vertical dimension plays a role in combat that wasn't there in the first game.

- I enjoyed the new environments. The original Horizon had beautiful natural environments. That was one of my favorite things about it. This one is the same. Lots of lush, beautifully rendered environments.

- They certainly didn't skimp on adding new machines, armor, weapons, and tribes, rather than just recycling the old ones. They also added some interesting new combat mechanics (e.g., weapon stamina, valor surge).

- Various tweaks that help the game. For example, easier fast-travel, ability to reset skill points, ability to tag machine parts.


Not So Good Stuff

- Although all the new additions are good on one level, on another level it's all a bit overwhelming. The game feels overstuffed. For instance, there are what, 7 or 8 different elemental effects and resistances? Each machine has different ones, and you have to carry weapons and manage coils for all the different permutations. Less is more, guys. I preferred the simplicity of the original game.

- I didn't enjoy melee in the first game, and I still don't like it here. I just don't find whacking people with a spear satisfying. They did a lot to improve it, but I just didn't care. Fortunately, you can leave that part of the game alone without hurting yourself much. I think of Aloy as a bow hunter, not a melee fighter.

- I enjoyed the main mission, the side quests, the rebel camps, and the Tallnecks. But I had little interest in all the miscellaneous subquests -- the black boxes, the relic ruins, the rebel outposts, the melee pit challenges, games of Strike, the collectibles, and whatever else I've forgotten. I platinumed the first game, but I won't bother with this one. There's just too much to do.

- They nerfed a bunch of stuff -- Tripcasters, Ropecasters, fire damage, the weapons you tear off, etc. I assume they had reason to do that, but I enjoyed those things in the first game and felt their absence in the second.


One other note:
I complained in my OP that Aloy was less likeable. After playing through more of the game, I can see that was just the early set up, and it's really not true overall. She gets back to normal fairly soon. This game actually fleshes her out as a human being more than the first game did. Granted, some of the character arc is a little cheesy, but I liked it. I also complained in my OP about lack of humor. That was remedied in the second half, too.


Overall, I'm enjoying the game quite a bit now. I think it'll end up an 8/10 for me. I did have to adjust my approach, though. Specifically, I focused less on the upgrade grind and decided not to fret about all the mini-subquests.

As a fan of the first title and having read your original and follow up post OP, I almost agree with you entirely.

The only thing I disagree on is that strike, for me, is one of the best mini-games I can remember since triple triad in FFVIII. I only wish they had made it more prevalent in the world.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I guess the thread isn't for me, but I'll just say this: I thought the first game stunk, but I really like the second game. Weird.

 

[mdkirby]

It was just that time of the month for Aloy during this game.

I honestly wouldn’t mind if they made that clear, would be a realistic thing to happen and not really any different as a mechanic than survival games that make you drink/eat, or where booze makes your vision funny or makes your character throw up. A “your character is now on her period and will be irritable and prone to getting pissed off for the next X days” would be quite cool mechanically.

Sadly that wasn’t the case, as it lasted the entire game, which means there’s no excuse, she’s just irritable and unlikeable.

Doesn’t help that a fair chunk of the supporting characters were just kinda annoying, despite being well acted and superbly animated. Hmm maybe that’s why she’s irritated, most the people in the world are just annoying.

 

[Corndog]

I know. I used that same line with people who objected to the original, about the same issue. I said, "Hey, it's a game about robot dinosaurs. It's not meant to be realistic." But it is different this time. More overbearing and noticeable. To the point where it pulls me out of the game and, like I said, makes me think about the writers. Not good. If you're reading a novel, you want to be immersed in the story world, not thinking about what the writer is up to. Plus it's just too much. You can only keep suspending disbelief so many times, then you've reached your quota, lol.

It was noticeable in the first, especially around religion and men.

 

[Humdinger]

As a fan of the first title and having read your original and follow up post OP, I almost agree with you entirely.

The only thing I disagree on is that strike, for me, is one of the best mini-games I can remember since triple triad in FFVIII. I only wish they had made it more prevalent in the world.

Cool. You may be right -- Strike might be a fun mini-game. I didn't give it a chance. I completed the tutorial, but I never played another game of Strike.

I never play strategy mini-games in WRPGs (or anywhere else, for that matter). I skipped Gwent (?) in the Witcher, too. Just not my thing.

 

[Humdinger]

OP here. A postscript. I started New Game+, and I'm enjoying it. I think this game is very well-suited to New Game+. Here are some of the advantages I've noticed:

1. No need to spam R3, collect a bunch of materials, or slaughter animals right and left. I already have all the materials I need, and my pouches are upgraded. This makes for a more relaxing, peaceful walk through the world. I can enjoy the sights, rather than always be looking for what I need to pick up or shoot.

2. I only listen to the dialog I want to listen to, rather than feeling compelled to listen to everything. This saves a lot of time and tedium. I end up listening to only about a third of the available options.

3. I know what side-activities to skip now, which makes the game more enjoyable. There are a ton of side-activities in this game -- relic ruins, gauntlet races, rebel camps, rebel outposts, Strike, hunting grounds, melee pits, errands, jobs for upgrading items, salvage contracts, Tallnecks, the Arena, and cauldrons. The glut of those activities dragged my experience down in the first game. Now I can focus just on the activities I enjoy.

4. I have high-level gear, so I don't have to worry about the upgrade grind. That was a drag in the first game.

5. I can be more loose with combat, because I'm overpowered.

6. I can make better sense of the story. It still feels convoluted to me, but it's making a bit more sense.

 

[diffusionx]

I bought HFW day one because I loved the original so much, but put it down and played through Ghost of Tsushima instead. I’ll give it another try at some point, maybe, but I think Guerilla screwed it up. The game is still fun because the actual mechanics of robot hunting is fun and the world is interesting to explore, but everything else - story, quests, added features, etc. - is just a miss.

I am worried God of War Ragnarok is going to be the same sort of thing based on what I’ve seen, and I didn’t like Nu-GOW as much as I did HZD.

 

[Darak]

I had a great time with HZD, but the sequel didn't click for me. If I had to point at something, I'd say being overstuffed is the biggest issue, as there was always way too many things to do, and many of them were not that fun. Grinding for armor and weapons was a bad experience and made me waste a lot of time finding and fighting dinos I had already beat before many times, or sometimes I'd hit a progress wall because I was supposed to fight something I had yet to find in the open world. The story had a great premise and villains, but was poorly realized, with way too much exposition, too much fat, and too little mystery to it. Combat was fine, but a step down from the prequel IMHO, and had balance issues (especially in that battle arena).

I eventually realized I was having no fun with the game and abandoned it, despite being close to the ending. And it's a shame, because it was an artistic and technical marvel (after they fixed that terrible performance mode).

 

[Hobbygaming]

OP here. A postscript. I started New Game+, and I'm enjoying it. I think this game is very well-suited to New Game+. Here are some of the advantages I've noticed:

1. No need to spam R3, collect a bunch of materials, or slaughter animals right and left. I already have all the materials I need, and my pouches are upgraded. This makes for a more relaxing, peaceful walk through the world. I can enjoy the sights, rather than always be looking for what I need to pick up or shoot.

2. I only listen to the dialog I want to listen to, rather than feeling compelled to listen to everything. This saves a lot of time and tedium. I end up listening to only about a third of the available options.

3. I know what side-activities to skip now, which makes the game more enjoyable. There are a ton of side-activities in this game -- relic ruins, gauntlet races, rebel camps, rebel outposts, Strike, hunting grounds, melee pits, errands, jobs for upgrading items, salvage contracts, Tallnecks, the Arena, and cauldrons. The glut of those activities dragged my experience down in the first game. Now I can focus just on the activities I enjoy.

4. I have high-level gear, so I don't have to worry about the upgrade grind. That was a drag in the first game.

5. I can be more loose with combat, because I'm overpowered.

6. I can make better sense of the story. It still feels convoluted to me, but it's making a bit more sense.

I loved the story though : )