Omegasquash
Member
I don't think that associating race with acts of violence is what should be happening ever at all, but that's what I'm reading here, unless I'm mistaken. Mind elaborating on the bolded a little bit?
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Thousands of Baltimore residents protest Freddie Grays death
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
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I don't think that associating race with acts of violence is what should be happening ever at all, but that's what I'm reading here, unless I'm mistaken. Mind elaborating on the bolded a little bit?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Don't you know? Centuries of systemic racism ruining and ending lives = property damage and looting.
theignoramus
Member
He's implying there's a pattern of pathological behaviour emanating from parts of black community and that we ought to recognize black crime. Im sure hell point to things like the black on black murder rates in Chicago and other cities. Inner city violence is undoubtedly an issue, ( why does he single out black people though? Its not just black gangs running wild and spilling blood in the streets) but Id love for him to elaborate on his comments about arrest rates and incarcerations and sentencing, like a staggering double standard doesnt exist when it comes to minor felonies.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Never mind what the prison industrial complex has done to communities already.
Black Republican
Member
you know what this protest needs?
Spread the problems of racism throughout social media through the young and old
an ice bucket like challenge.
ProfessorMoran
Member
That's not a police car, unnecessary property damage basically kills any support I have for these protests.NY Times article link.
Images from USA Today.
Some vines:
https://vine.co/v/eWeFF6ht3zF
https://vine.co/v/eWej0jY1622
Omegasquash
Member
I think it was King who said "A riot is the language of the unheard".
They are trying that. The thing about something like the ice bucket challenge was that it is "fun" and you can get your favorite actors and actresses to join in. Racism isn't and it's a pretty tough sell as it's bad pr. People are more afraid of being called a racist than ever doing something racist and even talking about it openly. We happen to live in a society where people actually think you're the "real racist" for acknowledging that racism exists and rather shift the blame on personal responsibility (what about black on black crime/respectability politics etc.) for issues systemic racism causes. The sad truth is that the majority doesn't want to confront racism because it makes them uncomfortable.
That is for you huh? So you support police brutality because someone broke a window?
I don't find it uncomfortable to discuss racism. I do find it uncomfortable that people think causing damage and hurting people will somehow justify their cause.
If something like this is all it takes to kill your support, you must've not had much in the first place.
Yes, the property damage is terrible, but are you really going to use these few outliers to ignore the thousands of others doing the protest justice?
I find it uncomfortable that black people aren't seen as individuals by yourself apparently.
Where in the universe did you come up with that claim? Because I said, I find it uncomfortable for people to cause violence and hurt people?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
It's not about justification. Folks have been trying to "justify" the cause for centuries to deaf ears.
ProfessorMoran
Member
It's easy to dismiss vandalism when the window that's broken doesn't belong to your home or your car, for cash-strapped families with young children, you get violent in these protests and start destroying other people's property, they're not going to be very sympathetic to your cause and they're probably going to push for the police to tear gas your ass off their streets. I'm all for peaceful protests to fight things like racism but a protest should not be used as an opportunity to destroy things, vandalism and looting are acts of the stupid.
Coriolanus
Banned
Vincent Grayson
Member
I think it's disingenuous to suggest that people are really "thinking" that causing damage and hurting people will justify their cause. That people get caught up in the moment and their own anger and sometimes act out (perhaps moreso in a large crowd due to mob mentality, like we see at white-dominated riots over say, sports team victories) is not new information and does not invalidate the totally legitimate grievances these people (and frankly, everyone) have against the police when they do things like this.
Indeed if that is the reaction to the inevitable violent pushback when peaceful means of reforming the institution prove useless it will be on police as much as those supporting them when the community fights back violent suppression with violent resistance.
While there are probably some people in here who (based on past threads) are 'fixating' on broken property 'over' human life, a lot of people getting shit on in this thread are displaying correct levels of contempt for both sets of actions.
Anyone commenting about the rioting is automatically being 'tagged' as someone who is unwilling to comment or display outrage about Freddie Gray's murder or someone who values property over people (though I'll acknowledge, as I did earlier in the thread, there are probably some ever-present actors in these threads that always try to downplay that shit), and that's driving me nuts.
One thing I will say is that the people destroying innocent bystanders' property can't possibly be "hurting the message", because the people that care about the message can still understand the message while being mad about shit being destroyed, and the people that don't care about the message are going to try and use people destroying shit to go "SEE, SEE, MESSAGE LOST" and ignore or downplay the message. Smashing up businesses has no impact on 'the message'.
That still doesn't mean someone can't get mad about wanton destruction of property belonging to outside parties -- they just shouldn't be more pissed off about that than about the systemic racism and/or murder of black Americans. It's not a zero sum game. There's no "outrage tank" that can only hold so much outrage that you have to allocate, and that someone giving fucks about businesses getting smashed up means that's outrage that can't go somewhere else.
I guess from your standpoint it is easy to dismiss protesting police brutality because it doesn't affect you.
googleplex
Member
You're part of the problem.
EatinOlives
Member
How do you feel about unnecessary killing of unarmed minorities? Or does your sympathy only extend to inanimate objects?
You're conflating the entirety of the people protesting with the few who caused property damage. If that isn't what you mean you should make yourself a little clearer as words mean things. Furthermore you'll be hard pressed to find someone you're talking to in this thread who thinks the property damage is excusable. You may find people here who understands what it must feel like to be gunned down by the state with impunity, then to hear your cries for justice and fairness fall on deaf ears and the frustration that must bring to where smashing shit around you in a fit of rage seems like the only way you're going to get heard. You won't find people endorsing it though so i really don't know what you're talking about. Your position also lacks empathy for those out there suffering. If you truly don't want these riots to happen you need to first understand why are they rioting to begin with. If you just want to wave fingers then go ahead but don't pretend like you care.
Pretty hilarious, especially considering most people who get their car smashed during a riot are going to get a hefty insurance payout. Media distraction success.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
This is unbelievable..look in the mirror. The shame should be directed at your reflection.
I'm getting the oh so novel argument of black-on-black crime from that.
But he earned it since he conceded that "racism sucks balls".
This entire thread is full of the same shit that comes up every time: property damage is equated to centuries worth of oppression, people "inquiring" about the personal history of the victim, invoking the spirit of MLK and all the other bullshit just to detract from the protest and its message.
The obsession with material, replaceable (and more often than not, insured) goods and the complete disregard for human beings and their struggle in favor of those goods is one of the most vile aspects of the American culture. Only slightly behind the fucking racism this whole thing is about in the first place.
So one condemning riot violence against innocent people means one must also condone police brutality?
Quite the logic leap you've made there
Omegasquash
Member
To the bolded: That's the thing, all that this extra info and these hand picked images do nothing but move the spotlight further and further off of the actual reason that protests are happening in the first place. Where the actual issue is systematic and institutionalized racism by law enforcement, the issue becomes perceived as "black people protest and break shit". If we could take a step back and separate, as a matter of course in our perception of the issue (crisis, honestly), we would see these "additional facts" as nothing more than what you pointed out...an attempt to detract from the protest and its message.
pretending like race (any race, given a location) isn't one of MANY markers in determining and predicting crime, you are playing a zero sum game.. good luck with that.
"white male 30 year old charged with rape in the inner city"
all bolded items are markers. there's no excuse AT ALL for what cops have done in issuing unusually extreme (and/or lethal) force in near blatant acts of racism and/or profiling .. but to want to throw specific markers out completely and standing firm that those markers are just wholesale racism (they're not inherently), is basically just going to strengthen the actual racists' beliefs.
america has been heading on a crash course for extreme ideological segregation for ~20 years now.. and this is another example of it. All I am doing is recognizing that. But of course each extreme side to that argument is going to call me "part of the problem".
Funny. you guys here call me a part of the problem. Racists call me a part of the problem. and yet here we are. let me know how that works out for everyone...
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
EDIT: nevermind.
theignoramus
Member
That picture, what in the fuck?
And borghe, you didnt respond to any of the pertinent questions and comments about your throwaway remarks on arrest rates.
And borghe, you didnt respond to any of the pertinent questions and comments about your throwaway remarks on arrest rates.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Well the person did say they lost support for the protests after the riots started.
Old racist stereotypes. All that's missing is a watermelon.
Still don't know how that means he's ok with police brutality. So just because he's against property damage and violence against innocent people, it also means he's ok with police brutality? Ok.
Lord_Byron28
Member
There have been tons of peaceful protests done on this topic yet nothing gets resolved. People are outraged that once again an American citizen has been killed due to police brutality. The protests didn't happen until after the system that is supposed to protect and serve American citizens once again failed. These violent protests, while not acceptable, do draw national attention to the topic. There have been plenty of peaceful protests and things aren't changing. I'm not justifying that people destroying innocent people's property is okay but that it is understandable when numerous attempts have been made to change things through peaceful protests and through the legal system in the past. When all methods and systems in place for their voice to be heard hasn't been working; people are going to try other ways to get their voice heard.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Unless he wants to do something about police brutality, silence is compliance.
And I say that to everyone pissy about these protests spiraling out. Have a problem but still want to do something about police brutality? Lead by example.
Don't want to? Well, I'm not surprised.
I agree. I don't want this to distract from the just cause but business owners/civilians don't deserve to have their property destroyed. Many business owners don't have enough money to get damage like this fixed.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Why lose support for a protest because some people riot?
EatinOlives
Member
That's not what he's saying.
What he (and many others in this thread) is wondering is why is the riot violence of a select few the thing that makes his blood boil, and the thing that drives him to post in this thread? Not the peaceful protests or the unjust murder of Gray, but the small minority of rioters who smashed windows. He cares so much about broken windows yet he said nothing of the senseless killing of unarmed minorities. The rioting and violence were already condemned by the peaceful protests and family of the deceased:
The OP's article also has several other quotes condemning the violence. Clearly those who want to spread the message of justice are distancing themselves from the violent outbreaks.
But yet there are still people in this thread who insist on joining the two together, and using the violence as a facile excuse to dismiss the message entirely.
If you're in this thread talking about nothing but broken windows that speaks mountains of your priorities. You're not "condoning police brutality", you are ignoring it, which in and of itself is a problem.
FadedRevolution
Member
So a car window is more important than the rights of black people. Nice to know that.
Because if he's turned off enough by the violent outbursts of the oppressed people that he dismisses the cause of the violence he's implicitly for keeping the status quo of police brutality and lack of liability. That's how things are already when peaceful protests don't accomplish any actual change.
They are protesting against police brutality and he wrote that he no longer supported them. There was no leap of logic, it is exactly what he wrote.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Call them out. This is an unacceptable way for any human to behave.this showed up on my facebook feed today...
backwards hanging flag, grape soda and a kfc bucket. smh
markers. 5% arrested being black, 20% being latino, 75% being white.. etc.. all markers and statistics. people want that info thrown out? Why? Then let's throw out age, gender, location of the crime, or anything else that can be categorized?
And the part is... shitty racist cops don't need those statistics to be shitty racist cops. "6% of crimes in rich white suburpia are caused by minorities" won't stop shitty cops from needlessly pulling over a minority.
RACISM is a problem. 100%.
but acting like race is irrelevant in virtually every context is a) not entirely accurate especially in reports, trends, etc.., the same as any other marker, and b) is going to get us absolutely nowhere in actually solving the problem.
the problem is asshole racist cops. pretending like it doesn't matter that it's a certain demographic of person in a specific area causing the vast majority of the trouble, isn't going to do shit about there being asshole racist cops who feel they are justified.
I don't know what the answer is.. at the same time among all of these peaceful protests.... all I see is strengthened resolve (and you see it reported constantly, including pics in this very thread like above) among the people being protested against... just seems like a lose lose scenario (aka zero sum game)
edit - and I mean I am just stupid for posting anything in here.. I get it. I just don't see the paths that both extreme sides are heading on as resulting in a win for anyone.. just further ideological and political segregation for this country... and who the hell knows where that will end...
Sorry some of you guys took offense. Was not my intent. - Status
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