I understand why they're angry and I sympathize but that doesn't make it OK or immune from criticism . You can be angry and voice it, but once you cross that line and resort to violence your're no longer better than those your against.
Thousands of Baltimore residents protest Freddie Grays death
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I understand why they're angry and I sympathize but that doesn't make it OK or immune from criticism . You can be angry and voice it, but once you cross that line and resort to violence your're no longer better than those your against.
Protesters have moved towards the Western District Police station and are getting into it with police. A few officers are being shown injured and individuals are being placed under arrest. This is being aired on TV live.
You're an idiot.
You're an idiot.
Again, the property damage is the result of a systemic view. It's about anger at the system as a whole. I mean, they could go and smash all the windows at police stations, court houses, and legislatures, but I somehow don't think that'd be possible. I don't want to generalize too broadly, but even owning a deli shop is an unlikely dream for many African-Americans who either won't have the capital or the credit to get a business loan, nor have generational wealth to depend on, because the social system as a whole limits the ability for African-Americans to get and keep wealth. Employer discrimination, high arrest and ticketing rates, and a weak welfare system all of which followed decades of violence, labour appropriation, moral degradation, and enforced poverty.
I'm not saying property destruction during protests is a moral good, but rather that criticizing victims of extended social injustice for being upset at the society which wronged them is a symptom of ongoing repressive rule.
So it was a meaningless post on your part?It's about street cred. Gangs show up to show their hate toward the police. For example, here we had a nice family friendly boxing event, gang bangers showed up because it was others vs cops boxing. Being a gang banger isn't a crime in the US so they take every opportunity to hate on the police, regardless of their gang affiliations.
They didn't do anything bad at the event but there were plenty of annoyed coppers.
I have never seen it.
It doesn't but that's par for course.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
People are going to care most prominently about whatever irrational behavior comes out of the story most recently. Are you saying people shouldn't be discussing the fact that innocent people are getting their property damaged and destroyed? A protest about illegal behavior is being criticized because it broke out in illegal behavior. It's not hard to understand why people would be talking about it. You're pretending like this is behavior that should be ignored just because people have a good reason to be mad at something.
Do you approve of the Boston Tea Party?
No, your a hypocrite who uses violence to achieve your ends. You believe that by using violence you can enact change by making people fear you and the consequences of not listening to you.
Does that station have an online stream? Do you know?
Vicetrailia
Banned
be safe Protesters.
Do you approve of the Boston Tea Party?
I would be more willing to talk about it if it wasn't such an obvious way to derail from the real point. I know how this always goes. You say a little token thing about how police violence is wrong and then spend the rest of the thread talking about those terrible protesters and their vandalism. It's tired at this point. You could at least try and find a new angle to attack from here.
Example A of why change is not coming.
Jesus fucking Christ people do just not give a shit.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I don't think that's a very good comparison. Those people dumped that tea specifically because it belonged to the people who they were protesting against.
You could try not assuming shit about me based off a couple posts. The only reason the conversation is even continuing is because there are people who are willing to defend the idea that random vandalism is acceptable.
It can't be ignored. That is the point. I thought the same thing when the Michale Brown thing started but if those protest didn't get as serious as they were would the Department of Justice have delved so deep in the investigation of the police department to reveal the racial bias protestors were complaining about? Would Tom Jackson be resigning? I don't think so. I hope no one gets hurt.
Even with peaceful protest you aren't going to win the image war when you are competing with cops. NYC taught us that.
Why wouldn't I think that way when the state has spent my entire life ruling me through fear and violence?
You guys are funny and over thinking this shit.
As someone who lives in this city let me break down what happened as far as the violence today.
A few young niggas had the opportunity to turn up in the streets while the police were in a concentrated section of downtown. That's it. These kids don't care about any cause or trying to fix any systemic problems in society. It's Saturday; they're bored. Let's break shit. That's seriously all this was and will be when it happens again.
It was the local Fox station and their coverage just ended.
It was only a few dozen people and the cops had it under control.
As someone who lives in this city let me break down what happened as far as the violence today.
A few young niggas had the opportunity to turn up in the streets while the police were in a concentrated section of downtown. That's it. These kids don't care about any cause or trying to fix any systemic problems in society. It's Saturday; they're bored. Let's break shit. That's seriously all this was and will be when it happens again.
It was the local Fox station and their coverage just ended.
It was only a few dozen people and the cops had it under control.
Those people destroyed property, expressly and intentionally had the goal of doing so, and harmed people over money.
Yes or no, simple question.
I was at the Orioles game from out of town and they actually locked down the stadium for 15-20 min and didn't let people leave. Totally empathize with the protestors, but still a crazy experience.
Since the family of the victim and most local leaders seemed to be calling for no violence, I think people should have heeded their wishes.
Since the family of the victim and most local leaders seemed to be calling for no violence, I think people should have heeded their wishes.
So you honestly believe that this violence will bring about a positive change? That destroying random peoples property will make them sympathize with you?
Don't worry, no change is coming.
People like you are more concerned with protests than the actual causes. Lecture them more on how to behave, react, and the hypothetical time table for when they can expect change.
Do you approve of the Boston Tea Party?
Oh, no, violence isn't the answer!
It's the fucking result.
Get the social contract pulled out from underneath you and see how well you handle it. Respect other people's property? Why the fuck should they care, this society has made it perfectly clear that their lives are hanging by a thread that can be cut at will. Give them one good god damn reason why they should give a shit about doing things properly so they won't upset the people who haven't ever and won't ever lift a finger to help bring them justice. Why should they care about your laws when they aren't protected by those laws?
You don't want violence? STOP THE MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ARE KILLING BLACK PEOPLE.
It's the fucking result.
Get the social contract pulled out from underneath you and see how well you handle it. Respect other people's property? Why the fuck should they care, this society has made it perfectly clear that their lives are hanging by a thread that can be cut at will. Give them one good god damn reason why they should give a shit about doing things properly so they won't upset the people who haven't ever and won't ever lift a finger to help bring them justice. Why should they care about your laws when they aren't protected by those laws?
You don't want violence? STOP THE MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ARE KILLING BLACK PEOPLE.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not, it's not remotely that black and white. You can approve of vandalism against the people who have wronged you and still think it's a terrible thing to vandalize people who didn't have anything to do with the situation you're mad about.
I believe that question has already been answered so it doesn't bear repeating. That tea belonged to the people that they were protesting against not random strangers they didn't have a quarrel with.
I can worry about both can't I? Worry about the causes while also worrying about the inappropriate and detrimental response?
Really? Are these people friends with a lion and a tin man?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Nah, that shit's okay... but breaking some windows, that's fucking outrageous!
Winning sympathy is impossible. How many more times would something like this have to happen before people that assume the person the cop kills must have done something to deserve it think to themselves "maybe those black people were right"?
Uh huh, sure. You're free to continue this tired and well-trodden derail if you want. Property will always come first in America after all.
History has shown that winning hearts and minds is far more effective than violence.
So I'm taking these responses as a yes.
"Yes, we approve of wanton and intentional destruction of property as a goal, with the injury of innocent bystanders tasked with the protection of that property as a byproduct of that goal, when it's being done over money. But how dare people hold a peaceful protest without wanton destruction as a goal and some people break some things all in the name of the loss of innocent peoples lives."
Your priorities are fucked and you're both acting like a pair of assholes. And your dodging the simple question indicates to me that you're both aware of how shitty you're being.
In regards to this topic?
You're not worth talking to.
You're not worth paying any attention to.
Your opinions have no value.
Everyone now knows is.
We all know that slavery ended when the blacks peacefully convinced the slave holding states to free them.
Just proving my above point.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Cool man, next time I'll make sure to only talk about the points you want to talk about. That way every thread can go exactly the way you want with no opposing viewpoints on anything.
Why does the action of a few speak for the greater cause for people like you?
Again, these are small groups of fucking children breaking windows. They have literally nothing to do with anything that the vast majority of the protesters are hoping to achieve.
Have you been doing that in this thread or have you been bitching about property being damaged?
Aren't most of the people doing that shit out of towners too? It seems like most of the local people were worried about that happening in the stuff I've read.
Primethius
Banned
It's actually incredible that some people can't even finish reading a sentence before responding to a portion of it.
I'm impressed.
I'm impressed.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Frankly you should be banned for this shit. That's some ignorant ass shit calling me an asshole for zero reason. I didn't dodge a question. You not being able to understand my answer to the question doesn't count as a dodge. I have no problem with vandalism against the people you're protesting against, but don't think it's appropriate to vandalize people who had nothing to do with the situation. How is that in any way a dodge to your question?
Not only are you putting a bunch of words in my mouth, you're being an asshole while doing it. The only one here not worth paying attention to is people who act like you.
Probably because everyone here already agrees that police brutality against people is wrong, and the only point of contention is people who think vandalism is OK and people who don't.
But no, I'm sure everyone who disagrees with you secretly doesn't care about black people and thinks everyone out there protesting was a savage asshole.
Nowhere did I say that. I'm basically making two arguments: (1) that vandalism committed during these protests is defensible given the context, and (2) that people within the dominant political group (whites, basically) need to be able to understand and empathize with the decisions and emotions of African-Americans in order to generate positive change, but criticizing the vandalism in these events undermines that capability.
You are being hypocritical. You are holding protestors to a far higher standard of rational behavior than the average onlooker. Why do protestors have to hold themselves to the highest possible standard of human behavior, even as they are overcome by anger, while onlookers can act in a completely selfish and uninformed manner. It is unfair to ask to angry and downtrodden to act like saints in order to appease the privileged majority who get to act like ordinary, irrational human beings.
Besides, the damage done to a few cars and a few broken windows will still end up costing the city a heck of a lot less money than the inevitable court settlement over Freddie Gray's death. Those police are doing more financial damage to the city than the protestors, but I guess court settlements are a lot more ordinary.
Didn't call you an asshole. Said you're acting like one. I stand by that.
If someone hasn't changed their mind about police interactions with minorities after the DoJ findings in Ferguson and Cleveland, they aren't going to.
It's hard to do that when you are caught in the crossfire. Who are the owners of these cars/businesses going to blame? The police who drove the protesters to violence or the protestors who committed the violence?
lmao like you were arguing anything besides the usual "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOWS?" point.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Our history is filled with social violence.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I still don't see why. I didn't dodge any question as much as you'd like to claim I did. You just want a yes or no answer when the question itself is much more complex then that.
I didn't ask anyone to act like a saint, I'm saying that they shouldn't break innocent people's shit. There is a Grand Canyon sized crater in between the two.
His statement is bullshit. Either he knows it's bullshit or he has no actual knowledge of American or world history.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Regardless violence and chaos are only going to make those kind of people feel more justified in their views. Violence is never the answer to a problem.
If they are like most people that feel strongly about the subject they had their mind made up long before the violence hit their city.
And when has that violence ever lead to positive change? One of the most successful social movements (the civil rights movement) achieved it's ends largely through non-violent protests. Who had more success? Martin Luther King's movement or the Black Panthers?
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