Thurott: $299 version of Xbox v.Next will come with a $15/mo XBLG sub, not $10

Regular Xbox already has the same subscription model. I don't know what they do, I'm guessing up to three months notice and then, they cancel your Gold account. Then sent a letter to the payment bureau or something and get someone visit you to take your Xbox away.

No I know that the Gold subscription model works like that, but when it's not just a matter of shutting off games or multiplayer or whatever, but subsidizing the entire console ie: We let you have this machine for $200 cheaper upfront in agreement that you would pay it back. Would they just turn your console into a brick?

Microsoft ninjas kidnap you when you're asleep.

That's why I never sleep
 
No I know that the Gold subscription model works like that, but when it's not just a matter of shutting off games or multiplayer or whatever, but subsidizing the entire console ie: We let you have this machine for $200 cheaper upfront in agreement that you would pay it back. Would they just turn your console into a brick?

I don't think that would be legal. You don't see AT&T turning your iphone into a brick if you don't pay, or someone from Rooms To Go, to enter your house and break your bed.
 
I don't think that would be legal. You don't see AT&T turning your iphone into a brick if you don't pay, or someone from Rooms To Go, to enter your house and break your bed.
Actually the 360 deactivates if you have it subsidized and default, if I recall.
 
Microsoft knows more than most companies (certainly more than Sony) how gullible the consumer can be.

They do a half-decent job promoting this (and they will), and all the talk of pricing difference will be irrelevant.

Sony will be in trouble if it does not have a counter move.
 
Microsoft knows more than most companies (certainly more than Sony) how gullible the consumer can be.

They do a half-decent job promoting this (and they will), and all the talk of pricing difference will be irrelevant.

Sony will be in trouble if it does not have a counter move.

Are you an expert in Japanese culture?
 
Hey, for the 15$ / month you'll get AMAZING features, such as free online play, demos, the ability to purchase games and use the internet with youtube for free"!

In all seriousness, I think the model itself isn't that bad, if you're a committed gamer. The problem is, if and how XBL Gold will change. Imagine a 250$ PS4 with 2 years of PS+ - not a too shabby deal imo.
 
Hey, for the 15$ / month you'll get AMAZING features, such as free online play, demos, the ability to purchase games and use the internet with youtube for free"!

In all seriousness, I think the model itself isn't that bad, if you're a committed gamer. The problem is, if and how XBL Gold will change. Imagine a 250$ PS4 with 2 years of PS+ - not a too shabby deal imo.

Not too bad to pay 659 for a console with no games? lol
 
nextbox_zps499e53bc.jpg
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I think if this is true I will for sure day one with xbox but it really all depends on whats the console are there more variants of hardware and such and what do I get with the 15 a month if its just online access and apps ehh idk .
 
I'm predicting a Gaming Market crash.

It will happen.

Heed my words.

You should be careful what you wish for, because there isn't a Nintendo to resuscitate the console sector should it crash once again. Instead, you'll be welcoming your PC and mobile overlords.

Thankfully, a full-on crash isn't the likely scenario. Instead, a moderate contraction is in store and publishers will be faced with the challenge of making games with limited budgets as revenues come down. It'll take awhile to figure out, and the spate of layoffs and closures will continue, but those who survive will make the necessary adjustments.
 
You should be careful what you wish for, because there isn't a Nintendo to resuscitate the console sector should it crash once again. Instead, you'll be welcoming your PC and mobile overlords.

That doesn't sound so bad. Someone, maybe Valve, maybe someone else, steps in and makes a consolized PC to fill the void.

Let Nintendo keep living in their little Nintendo world and doing their crazy Nintendo shit, and that sounds like the ideal market to me.
 
Can somebody that is better suited at economics than me tell me if this is possible for Sony? It seems like subsidizing a console like this would cause a rather large upfront hit to your cash flow. Can Sony handle that?

As long as MS/Sony can borrow at lower interest rates than they're lending to people, they're OK. Yes, there's a hit to cash flow, but they can borrow money to compensate (if needed).

Given that the interest rate in these subsidy plans is pretty high (which is why you shouldn't go for them), it's guaranteed that Sony/MS could borrow money easily and profitably to cover the cash flow hit.
 
$659 is more expensive that PS3 at launch.
But was was the price of the launch 360 + wifi add-on + hdmi add-on + 2 years of gold?
With this extra price I think that in addition to subsidize the console they will add PS+ like 'free' games with Gold.
 
another pastebin...well just something new to read:D

http://pastebin.com/CiKCVeiA

"Hi, I am a developer at a big studio (we are currently working on titles for the next generation of consoles) and I want to give you all an update about the current situation regarding the Xbox. I obviously can't tell you who I exactly am and where I work, and I have to be a little careful about what I say, because I fear some of the documentation and even the hardware our studio has received, contains individual values and terms which can be traced back to my studio in case of leaks, which would be very unpleasant for us.

I think at some time in the second half of 2012 Microsoft must have realised that their vision of a console powered by an APU with 1.23 TFLOPS graphics processing power will have a hard time competing with the PS4. It also became seemingly clear at that time, that Sony could quite easily upgrade the RAM in their new console, due to new chips being available with higher capacities. Although I guess they didn't *know* that Sony would really go with 8 GB at that time, they knew it was a possibility. The problem was, they were running out of time. Their old design was not very flexible, so they had to come up with something new.

So they completely scrapped the APU approach, and basically rebuilt the whole architecture from scratch with even more off-the-shelf parts. The current kits we have received a while ago have a discrete CPU and a discrete GPU. The CPU is still x86, has 8 cores and has still relatively low clocks, but it's not Jaguar as far as I am aware. I guess they did choose a CPU with a slightly bigger die now, because size isn't as important anymore as it was on the APU, but I don't know exactly because the cases are sealed and I can't take a look inside. The GPU is also new, and it is not GCN1, at least that's what I heard from our programmers. More about the GPU further down. There was also a big change regarding memory architecture: It is no longer a unified memory solution. There are now two memory pools: One with 8 GB DDR3 RAM (34 GB/s, 4 GB available for games), and one with 6 GB GDDR5 RAM (192 GB/s, all available for games). eSRAM is GONE! Technically the devkit has 16 GB DDR3 RAM, but the Xbox will ship with 8GB DDR3 (and 6GB GDDR5). The downside of going with a discrete CPU/GPU is loosing some of the APU synergy effects, but I guess it's not too bad and it was the only way to update the specs, because designing a new custom chip was certainly not possible in that time frame.

There is currently some confusion about clock speeds and processing power, I cannot give you exact numbers, because they are... a little bit odd right now, and as I wrote above I suspect it's a way of tracking leaks. When we received the kits, we where a bit suprised because they had the same cases as the old ones, which seems strange because a discrete CPU/GPU with split RAM obviously needs a little bit more space / cooling. And they where loud. Really loud. Shortly after we received the kits we got an update which reduced clock values slightly, because some devs have reported problems with heat. As it stands now, the GPU has ~2.3 TFLOPS (it was ~2.7 when we received the kits - again, sorry for not giving you the *exact* number). I have no idea if this is the final number or if they will work on a better cooling solution or something like that. It probably could even go further down, I don't know, so don't be too excited - our games are currently built with lower specs in mind. A personal theory of mine is that they postponed the reveal to work on an updated case, which is better suited for the updated specs.

Kinect has received some updates, but we only have implemented a few voice commands for our game. Not sure if they will include Kinect with every console. Would make sense so that more games use this, but in the end it's Microsoft's decision. Our dev kits are currently "always-on", meaning they need a internet connection to start and all, but I am not sure if this will carry over to the final Xbox, I guess it's just a way for Microsoft to track dev kits right now. Our game doesn't need to be always-on. Which doesn't mean it won't be there on a OS level, I just don't know. I also have no idea how Microsoft will price this thing, I guess $500, as rumored, makes sense somehow. I don't have much insight into their internal strategies. I hope I could give you a nice sneak peak at the reveal, our game will also be there, too, and it's a secret title, very excited!"
 
Where is this outrage about a subsidized model costing more in the long run coming from? This is how these things work. And it also seems to me that most of you don't know what it means to live on a fixed income and lacking financial flexibility to be making big entertainment purchases. There are plenty of people for whom this model would make perfect sense. In fact, I would be surprised if Sony doesn't come up a comparatively similar deal within a year of PS4's launch.
 
Our dev kits are currently "always-on", meaning they need a internet connection to start and all, but I am not sure if this will carry over to the final Xbox, I guess it's just a way for Microsoft to track dev kits right now. Our game doesn't need to be always-on. Which doesn't mean it won't be there on a OS level, I just don't know.

The pastebin might be bullshit, but given sold/leaked devkits, you are a moron if your devkits aren't online-only in 2013, you are a moron.
 
Can someone with knowledge fill me on on whether online play is free for the next xbox? I dont want gold, I just want to play online.
 
This is already a thing http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/consoles/entertainment-for-all and yes, it is more expensive than getting the console at full price even if you subtract $120 for the included two years Gold subscription. You end up paying a 250 GB model 339 instead of 299.

However, for the ones asking what happens if you stop paying, they do not disable your console. What happens is detailed here (section 11): http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms:

11. EARLY TERMINATION FEES

An Early Termination Fee (“ETF”) is a charge made to Your credit card if any of the following occur:

If You return Your Xbox Product(s) after the Return Period, and You cancel Your Subscription before the Term ends;
If You fail to provide an on-time, full Subscription payment and we are required to cancel Your Subscription; or
If You violate the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use, resulting in termination of Your Xbox LIVE membership.
The ETF is intended to provide reasonable compensation to Microsoft for the losses it suffers when a customer cancels the Xbox LIVE Subscription (and does not remain a customer for the full term of the Agreement). The ETF is part of this Offer and is not a penalty.

Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

1jVTKD5.jpg


You basically pay a penalty fee based on how far in the subscription you stop paying it.
 
another pastebin...well just something new to read:D

http://pastebin.com/CiKCVeiA

"Hi, I am a developer at a big studio (we are currently working on titles for the next generation of consoles) and I want to give you all an update about the current situation regarding the Xbox. I obviously can't tell you who I exactly am and where I work, and I have to be a little careful about what I say, because I fear some of the documentation and even the hardware our studio has received, contains individual values and terms which can be traced back to my studio in case of leaks, which would be very unpleasant for us.

I think at some time in the second half of 2012 Microsoft must have realised that their vision of a console powered by an APU with 1.23 TFLOPS graphics processing power will have a hard time competing with the PS4. It also became seemingly clear at that time, that Sony could quite easily upgrade the RAM in their new console, due to new chips being available with higher capacities. Although I guess they didn't *know* that Sony would really go with 8 GB at that time, they knew it was a possibility. The problem was, they were running out of time. Their old design was not very flexible, so they had to come up with something new.

So they completely scrapped the APU approach, and basically rebuilt the whole architecture from scratch with even more off-the-shelf parts. The current kits we have received a while ago have a discrete CPU and a discrete GPU. The CPU is still x86, has 8 cores and has still relatively low clocks, but it's not Jaguar as far as I am aware. I guess they did choose a CPU with a slightly bigger die now, because size isn't as important anymore as it was on the APU, but I don't know exactly because the cases are sealed and I can't take a look inside. The GPU is also new, and it is not GCN1, at least that's what I heard from our programmers. More about the GPU further down. There was also a big change regarding memory architecture: It is no longer a unified memory solution. There are now two memory pools: One with 8 GB DDR3 RAM (34 GB/s, 4 GB available for games), and one with 6 GB GDDR5 RAM (192 GB/s, all available for games). eSRAM is GONE! Technically the devkit has 16 GB DDR3 RAM, but the Xbox will ship with 8GB DDR3 (and 6GB GDDR5). The downside of going with a discrete CPU/GPU is loosing some of the APU synergy effects, but I guess it's not too bad and it was the only way to update the specs, because designing a new custom chip was certainly not possible in that time frame.

There is currently some confusion about clock speeds and processing power, I cannot give you exact numbers, because they are... a little bit odd right now, and as I wrote above I suspect it's a way of tracking leaks. When we received the kits, we where a bit suprised because they had the same cases as the old ones, which seems strange because a discrete CPU/GPU with split RAM obviously needs a little bit more space / cooling. And they where loud. Really loud. Shortly after we received the kits we got an update which reduced clock values slightly, because some devs have reported problems with heat. As it stands now, the GPU has ~2.3 TFLOPS (it was ~2.7 when we received the kits - again, sorry for not giving you the *exact* number). I have no idea if this is the final number or if they will work on a better cooling solution or something like that. It probably could even go further down, I don't know, so don't be too excited - our games are currently built with lower specs in mind. A personal theory of mine is that they postponed the reveal to work on an updated case, which is better suited for the updated specs.

Kinect has received some updates, but we only have implemented a few voice commands for our game. Not sure if they will include Kinect with every console. Would make sense so that more games use this, but in the end it's Microsoft's decision. Our dev kits are currently "always-on", meaning they need a internet connection to start and all, but I am not sure if this will carry over to the final Xbox, I guess it's just a way for Microsoft to track dev kits right now. Our game doesn't need to be always-on. Which doesn't mean it won't be there on a OS level, I just don't know. I also have no idea how Microsoft will price this thing, I guess $500, as rumored, makes sense somehow. I don't have much insight into their internal strategies. I hope I could give you a nice sneak peak at the reveal, our game will also be there, too, and it's a secret title, very excited!"

Another entry from TALES FROM MY ASS?
 
Can someone with knowledge fill me on on whether online play is free for the next xbox? I dont want gold, I just want to play online.
Don't count on it. They'll never give up on their actual Live Gold revenue stream. People are showing they're willing to pay it, so why make it free? What I'm hoping, instead, is that they''l add to it some more benefits like the PS Plus free games. This would be cool.
 
I imagine the intent of the $500 option is profit on hardware and/or immediate profit on "ecosystem."

There is nothing afaik that would lead me to believe that a $500 XBOX next would be loss-leading, unless something like Kinect is ridiculously expensive to include.

The $500 price point is just there to make the subsidized version look like a good deal.
 
I expect we'll know more after the reveal but I'm sure we'll have plenty of unanswered questions about the hardware. I think E3 is when we'll know for sure assuming it's launching this year. If the rumored specs are true I could see MS pulling a Nintendo and put the emphasis on the services and games instead.
 
This is already a thing http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/consoles/entertainment-for-all and yes, it is more expensive than getting the console at full price even if you subtract $120 for the included two years Gold subscription. You end up paying a 250 GB model 339 instead of 299.

However, for the ones asking what happens if you stop paying, they do not disable your console. What happens is detailed here (section 11): http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms:

11. EARLY TERMINATION FEES

An Early Termination Fee (“ETF”) is a charge made to Your credit card if any of the following occur:

If You return Your Xbox Product(s) after the Return Period, and You cancel Your Subscription before the Term ends;
If You fail to provide an on-time, full Subscription payment and we are required to cancel Your Subscription; or
If You violate the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use, resulting in termination of Your Xbox LIVE membership.
The ETF is intended to provide reasonable compensation to Microsoft for the losses it suffers when a customer cancels the Xbox LIVE Subscription (and does not remain a customer for the full term of the Agreement). The ETF is part of this Offer and is not a penalty.

Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

1jVTKD5.jpg


You basically pay a penalty fee based on how far in the subscription you stop paying it.

I don't see why people are so confused by this, I can only assume they aren't old enough to have ever had to take out a contract against something.

My iPhone is like this, I didn't want to pay £700 for it up front so I took it out with a poor value call tariff which I barely use, but it spread that payment out.

If I want to leave my contract early, I cannot simply walk off with my £700 phone having not been paid for, if I want to officially cancel it I would have to pay an early cancellation fee and if I think I can just cancel my payments I can be expected to be taken to court or have a debt collection agency sending repo men after me.
 
I expect we'll know more after the reveal but I'm sure we'll have plenty of unanswered questions about the hardware. I think E3 is when we'll know for sure assuming it's launching this year. If the rumored specs are true I could see MS pulling a Nintendo and put the emphasis on the services and games instead.

If the Nextbox ends up being less powerful, it won't be surprising if they go the Nintendo route because there are people out there who just want the "better" box. On the other hand, it's not like any of the companies are going to give out every single detail since the majority just doesn't care.
 
Hey, for the 15$ / month you'll get AMAZING features, such as free online play, demos, the ability to purchase games and use the internet with youtube for free"!

In all seriousness, I think the model itself isn't that bad, if you're a committed gamer. The problem is, if and how XBL Gold will change. Imagine a 250$ PS4 with 2 years of PS+ - not a too shabby deal imo.

MS needs to have an answer to PS+. Gold as it is now won't cut it anymore.
 
another pastebin...well just something new to read:D

http://pastebin.com/CiKCVeiA

"Hi, I am a developer at a big studio (we are currently working on titles for the next generation of consoles) and I want to give you all an update about the current situation regarding the Xbox. I obviously can't tell you who I exactly am and where I work, and I have to be a little careful about what I say, because I fear some of the documentation and even the hardware our studio has received, contains individual values and terms which can be traced back to my studio in case of leaks, which would be very unpleasant for us.

I think at some time in the second half of 2012 Microsoft must have realised that their vision of a console powered by an APU with 1.23 TFLOPS graphics processing power will have a hard time competing with the PS4. It also became seemingly clear at that time, that Sony could quite easily upgrade the RAM in their new console, due to new chips being available with higher capacities. Although I guess they didn't *know* that Sony would really go with 8 GB at that time, they knew it was a possibility. The problem was, they were running out of time. Their old design was not very flexible, so they had to come up with something new.

So they completely scrapped the APU approach, and basically rebuilt the whole architecture from scratch with even more off-the-shelf parts. The current kits we have received a while ago have a discrete CPU and a discrete GPU. The CPU is still x86, has 8 cores and has still relatively low clocks, but it's not Jaguar as far as I am aware. I guess they did choose a CPU with a slightly bigger die now, because size isn't as important anymore as it was on the APU, but I don't know exactly because the cases are sealed and I can't take a look inside. The GPU is also new, and it is not GCN1, at least that's what I heard from our programmers. More about the GPU further down. There was also a big change regarding memory architecture: It is no longer a unified memory solution. There are now two memory pools: One with 8 GB DDR3 RAM (34 GB/s, 4 GB available for games), and one with 6 GB GDDR5 RAM (192 GB/s, all available for games). eSRAM is GONE! Technically the devkit has 16 GB DDR3 RAM, but the Xbox will ship with 8GB DDR3 (and 6GB GDDR5). The downside of going with a discrete CPU/GPU is loosing some of the APU synergy effects, but I guess it's not too bad and it was the only way to update the specs, because designing a new custom chip was certainly not possible in that time frame.

There is currently some confusion about clock speeds and processing power, I cannot give you exact numbers, because they are... a little bit odd right now, and as I wrote above I suspect it's a way of tracking leaks. When we received the kits, we where a bit suprised because they had the same cases as the old ones, which seems strange because a discrete CPU/GPU with split RAM obviously needs a little bit more space / cooling. And they where loud. Really loud. Shortly after we received the kits we got an update which reduced clock values slightly, because some devs have reported problems with heat. As it stands now, the GPU has ~2.3 TFLOPS (it was ~2.7 when we received the kits - again, sorry for not giving you the *exact* number). I have no idea if this is the final number or if they will work on a better cooling solution or something like that. It probably could even go further down, I don't know, so don't be too excited - our games are currently built with lower specs in mind. A personal theory of mine is that they postponed the reveal to work on an updated case, which is better suited for the updated specs.

Kinect has received some updates, but we only have implemented a few voice commands for our game. Not sure if they will include Kinect with every console. Would make sense so that more games use this, but in the end it's Microsoft's decision. Our dev kits are currently "always-on", meaning they need a internet connection to start and all, but I am not sure if this will carry over to the final Xbox, I guess it's just a way for Microsoft to track dev kits right now. Our game doesn't need to be always-on. Which doesn't mean it won't be there on a OS level, I just don't know. I also have no idea how Microsoft will price this thing, I guess $500, as rumored, makes sense somehow. I don't have much insight into their internal strategies. I hope I could give you a nice sneak peak at the reveal, our game will also be there, too, and it's a secret title, very excited!"



Why is that written in your tone of voice? Edit: I'm adding a :)

Here's one I found on there by searching - posted it in the thread about the subscription last night:

http://pastebin.com/WYBaRtE3

I am being very careful with what I say here for obvious reasons.

Xbox 3 / 720 / Durango is in disarray.

Microsoft were taken completely by surprise by the power of PS4 and the elegance of the design. Their relationship with AMD is also under extreme duress as they feel AMD have given Sony preferential hardware development support (the truth is that Sony's own engineers supported the process)

Durango was engineered to be 'affordable' not just for the end consumer, but for MS to break even on day one - while including kinect in the box with every system. The apparent complexity of the hardware diagrams is due to lots of choices that are designed to make up for the components used. Microsoft assumed Sony would create a system based on low end hardware and arrogantly (that word aptly describes the exec team following the success of kinect - they think they are strategically untouchable) assumed they would have the same difficulties internally as last gen. To see the ducks in a row is disturbing. Microsoft are very much aware that World Wide Studios represents a force to be reckoned with now Sony has sorted out the cross regional culture.

Developers can't write to the metal on the system, but rather have to use an API - the reason for this is MS are planning regular Apple-style revisions. They have calculated that having lower performance on day one wont matter if over several years they can upgrade the system. A second calculation is that both console's first games will not fully tap into the power of the system. That means that by the time PS4 is hitting its stride, MS will have a new revision on the market. DO NOT EXPECT TO HEAR A WHISPER OF THAT AT LAUNCH. They know people might wait.

It is not all bad news though. The reason they weren't at GDC is that they don't want any leaks and did not want to disclose much more than they already have. They have had very positive focus group tests for their plans with both gamers and casual type customers. There is one problem with that. The comments do not take into account how those same people will react after seeing Durango games next to PlayStaion 4.

That said EVERYTHING is running late, there's heating issues and the system OS (which is built around windows 8 to eventually allow unified apps across Xbox, Winphone and PC), isn't ready.

The system is indeed 'coming in hot' in more ways than one.

Developers are frustrated with the complexity of the memory set up and an apparent change in focus by MS (Xbox was their trogan horse to beat Sony in the living room, now they are more concerned about google and Apple).

To confirm / deny rumours:

Must have kinect to work (true, kinect is integrated across the system, but hand tracking means it can offer a touch screen-like experience on your TV)

Always online. (false, the system is ALWAYS CONNECTED, just like PS4 it does a lot of stuff in the background - if you don't connect to the net you can play game but the console isn't worthwhile - a lot of the experience will be about being connected)

Tiered pricing and subscription based subsidy (True)

The system will now come with 12GB of GDDR3 memory (True - this won't make a huge difference to performance in the short term, but it is cheap and gives microsoft one of the few areas where Durango can claim a victory of sorts. The logic is that the average joe will believe more memory is better. Why not? The PC market has been teaching him this for years)

Anti Used Games. (True. They have a system and it works. Time will tell if they decide to implement it though.)

Windows 8 (True. The dashboard is Metro in style, but closer to Windows Phone 8 than the desltop version in style and function. All games will have a live tile tracking stats, friends, etc)

Xbox 360 SOC (True. MS will be pushing this HEAVILY as Sony dont have it. One of the key messages on May 21 will be that your entire library is coming with you to next gen. The kicker though? Durango upscales 360 games to 1080p output. Again this is one of the few areas MS can claim a lead over Sony and they will push this a lot)

Chief will be in attendance at Launch. Possibly saved for E3, but Microsofts biggest games will not miss launch when they are going head to head with Sony. While not quite an original story, you'll play various missions from the Chief's career before Halo 1 in a squad based co op shooter. Think Halo x Borderlands in many ways - the character creation and upgrade system from Halo 4 is being carried over but will be pat of the campaign). Think spartan ops on steroids.

At this point it could go either way - MS are down to the wire on everything. The system and key games could slip - there's some very tired engineers at Xbox Campus. Pay very close attention on the 21st - the slight of hand could be just as big as Sony in 2005 if things not gelled).
 
I think we're going to need to have a moratorium on pastebin rumours or just have one thread (tales from my ass |OT|) dedicated to them.

This is getting out of hand.
 
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