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[DarkKyo]

Yep, immediately you get attacked when you suggest you don't need the flu shot. My wife and I are in good health, both our kids aged 5 and 3 are in good health. Nobody in our family got the flu shot ever, and we don't plan on it again this year. We've discussed with our pediatrician and he's ok with it...but I guess the posters in GAF know better.

Didn't you know? GAF knows best 800% of the time.

 

[jmdajr]

Yep, immediately you get attacked when you suggest you don't need the flu shot. My wife and I are in good health, both our kids aged 5 and 3 are in good health. Nobody in our family got the flu shot ever, and we don't plan on it again this year. We've discussed with our pediatrician and he's ok with it...but I guess the posters in GAF know better.

Is that the first thing he recommended or is that what you wanted him to say?

 

[Vox-Pop]

I refuse to take a flu shot.

 

[Hexadecimalt]

Thread title should be changed to

"Flu Shot-GAF gets immune so I don't have to!"

:lol

 

[AVclub]

RE: the "pharmacutical companies just want you to get them to line their pockets" arguments. It's a standard practice amongst all countries with public health care services, too. Those governments would leap at the chance if they could justify not spending money on free vaccinations. But they don't. So can your stupid paranoia and stop playing the life of your kids by pretending you know better than the bulk of world scientific reasoning.
And anyone in between who have conditions that would be agitated by the flu virus. It's very easy to get the jab if you want it.

Your reasoning assumes that the government has control over pharmaceutical companies instead of the other way around. It also implies that all scientists agree that this particular flu vaccine is beneficial. That also is not the case. So if I made decisions based on your wildly inaccurate generalizations, I supposed I'd let people pump barely tested chemicals into my body as well.

 

[Manics]

Is that the first thing he recommended or is that what you wanted him to say?

He didn't recommend anything at first, he asked if we wanted to give the kids the flu shot, when then asked "is it necessary considering they're both in good health" and he said "no not really". I then asked him to check GAF because they might know more than him even though he's had 30+ years of experience as a pediatrician.

 

[ianp622]

Your reasoning assumes that the government has control over pharmaceutical companies instead of the other way around. It also implies that all scientists agree that this particular flu vaccine is beneficial. That also is not the case. So if I made decisions based on your wildly inaccurate generalizations, I supposed I'd let people pump barely tested chemicals into my body as well.

Barely tested? You hear one report of someone who has a psychogenic disease, but you ignore the millions that get the vaccine and are fine. Remember, it's not very news-worthy to say, "Local man gets vaccine and is fine."

You're really exaggerating the risks.

 

[Darklord]

I refuse to take a flu shot.

A lot of people I know get the flu soon after getting a flu shot. I don't really care. If I get sick, I get sick. I'll be bad for like a week and that'll be it. I don't need a shot for that.

 

[MC Safety]

No, but not getting something is not a good way to determine that something works. There are a lot of people and children that experience negative side effects from the flu shot. And sometimes these side effects can be worse than just getting the flu. Do you remember the Dallas cheerleader who became disabled after getting her flu shot? I'd rather get the flu, thanks.

The woman was faking. You can see her exposed as a fraud on YouTube.

Her "symptoms" included speaking in a British accent.

And anti-vaccine nuts hold up this lunatic as proof of why shots are harmful.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

Barely tested? You hear one report of someone who has a psychogenic disease, but you ignore the millions that get the vaccine and are fine. Remember, it's not very news-worthy to say, "Local man gets vaccine and is fine."

You're really exaggerating the risks.

So you are saying giving it to millions of people is testing it? The vaccine is different every year. And live tests are where disastrous results are possible.

 

[AVclub]

Barely tested? You hear one report of someone who has a psychogenic disease, but you ignore the millions that get the vaccine and are fine. Remember, it's not very news-worthy to say, "Local man gets vaccine and is fine."

You're really exaggerating the risks.

I am not talking about the cheerleader. I'm talking about how any pill that's released to treat an illness takes years of testing before it even gets to a human trial. Yet these flu vaccines are cobbled together in a matter of months and released to the public with no long term testing.

If I'm ignoring all the people without adverse reactions to the flu shots. You're ignoring all the millions of people who never get them and are perfectly fine without them. There's a far greater success rate of people surviving flu season without the shot than with.

 

[Manics]

What I don't understand is why did the H1N1 flu become such a hot topic and polarized so many people in the "you must get this shot as your civic duty" camp? The deaths from H1N1 are FAR FEWER than just normal seasonal flu, yet people insisted it was the biggest thing since the Spanish Flu of 100 years ago.

I know the argument coming now "the number of deaths from H1N1 were so slow because of all the responsbile people who got their flu shots last year".

So again I ask, seasonal flu affects far more people and causes far more death, yet only in the last 1-2 years are people insanely passionate about thrusting their vaccine beliefs on you -- why?

 

[Kurtofan]

What if you're immuno suppressed?

 

[clav]

Got mine two weeks ago at Costco for $20.

Membership not required.

 

[Mudkips]

My immunity protects you.

You're welcome.

Wrong. Influenza is so widespread that it doesn't benefit from herd immunity effects. Beyond that, the vaccine does not immunize you to "the flu". It only gives your immune system a head start against a few predicted strains of it.

Fuck the flu shot. My immune system does not need help to fight off viral infection.

This.

EDIT because of your other post - you CANNOT, repeat, CANNOT contract a virus from the vaccination of a virus. It is dead. It would break all known laws of science. However, you can contract the virus immediately before or after the vaccination (before it has done its desired work) independent of the vaccination, hence the confirmation bias of "flu vaccine gave me the flu".

Wrong.
Many vaccines do indeed contain live strains of a virus.
Some vaccines are based on similar viruses that are usually not harmful to a human, some are based on measured and weakened amounts of the the target virus, some are dead versions of the virus, etc.

Certain people may still have a noticeable immune response to dead or weakened versions of the virus. They will not contract the virus, but they will get similar symptoms. Typically, thy are milder and shorter in duration. This is why you can get "flu like symptoms" from the flu vaccine.

And certain people may indeed actually get infected by vaccines that contain live, weakened batches of the target virus.

I'm all for shitting on the Jenn McCarthy's of the world, but being so adamant about being so wrong just makes you as guilty as they are.


The flu vaccine is no where near 100% effective.
The flu vaccine is not 100% safe.
The flu vaccine is not necessary for the vast majority of people.
Flu vaccine campaigns are a terrible waste of time, money, and people's attention spans.

 

[Zoe]

So again I ask, seasonal flu affects far more people and causes far more death, yet only in the last 1-2 years are people insanely passionate about thrusting their vaccine beliefs on you -- why?

Because of the Autism nuts.

 

[Manics]

Because of the Autism nuts.

I don't get it.

 

[Zoe]

I don't get it.

The Autism nuts started a vocal campaign against vaccinations, so people have become more fervently pro-vaccinations to compensate.

 

[Kurtofan]

I don't get it.

I think people their children will become autists if they get vaccinated.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

When I saw the 30 Rock episode about flu shots I was highly confused

Flu is actually a huge deal in America? Seems crazy to me, I didn't even know you could get jabs for it until recently :lol

 

[ianp622]

So you are saying giving it to millions of people is testing it? The vaccine is different every year. And live tests are where disastrous results are possible.

I am not talking about the cheerleader. I'm talking about how any pill that's released to treat an illness takes years of testing before it even gets to a human trial. Yet these flu vaccines are cobbled together in a matter of months and released to the public with no long term testing.

The only change is usually the subtype to keep up with the mutation of virus. And only a part or a dead virus is actually in the vaccine, so it shouldn't make a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Annual_reformulation_of_flu_vaccine

If I'm ignoring all the people without adverse reactions to the flu shots. You're ignoring all the millions of people who never get them and are perfectly fine without them.

I didn't say anything about who should get a flu shot. I'm only saying the risks are exaggerated.

There's a far greater success rate of people surviving flu season without the shot than with.

I don't think you mean what you are actually saying here. You're saying that the 100 million people that do get vaccinated are more likely to die than the 200 million that don't? I'd like to see some evidence for that.

 

[Kurtofan]

When I saw the 30 Rock episode about flu shots I was highly confused

Flu is actually a huge deal in America? Seems crazy to me, I didn't even know you could get jabs for it until recently :lol

?
Flu vaccination exists everywhere.

 

[Price Dalton]

When I saw the 30 Rock episode about flu shots I was highly confused

Flu is actually a huge deal in America? Seems crazy to me, I didn't even know you could get jabs for it until recently :lol

We love pharmaceuticals around here, for just about any health condition, real or exaggerated.

As I understand it, though, the flu shot is good for people with compromised immune systems and poor diets. I doubt it does any real harm either way.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I get them free every year. Wouldn't make sense not to get them.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Can't remember the last time I had one. Been at least 15 years. I also can't remember being seriously ill.

 

[Foob]

fuck this shit i never get em

 

[Dragon]

I will not be getting one this year.

I also rarely get antibiotics as well. There's no reason for me to be on them for every little thing that I can treat otherwise. I believe there was a study done in Norway that acknowledged that the benefits of antibiotics were counteracted by the bacteria's ability to eventually become resistant.

 

[Manics]

I don't think you mean what you are actually saying here. You're saying that the 100 million people that do get vaccinated are more likely to die than the 200 million that don't? I'd like to see some evidence for that.

He's saying there are far more people who DIDN'T get vaccinated then those that did. If you can show a greater % of deaths in people who didn't get any sort of vaccination then I salute you.

 

[AVclub]

I don't think you mean what you are actually saying here. You're saying that the 100 million people that do get vaccinated are more likely to die than the 200 million that don't? I'd like to see some evidence for that.

I'm saying that human history is full of viruses that have seriously damaged society and vaccinations against them are a relatively new invention. Influenza is not one of those illnesses that is a threat to humanity. It's a pest, but not a killer. We as a civilization have had far more people survive the flu season without getting immunized then we have with the immunizations. I'm not saying the shots are hurting anyone. I don't know whether they are or not. I'm just saying I think they are fairly unnecessary. People have gotten along fine without them. When I was a kid, we had vaccinations against stuff that was seriously life threatening, and I think those are great. Flu shots just seem excessive to me.

Next we'll be getting notices that it's Salmonella season so we better run to the pharmacy to get our Salmonella vaccinations.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm saying that human history is full of viruses that have seriously damaged society and vaccinations against them are a relatively new invention. Influenza is not one of those illnesses that is a threat to humanity. It's a pest, but not a killer. We as a civilization have had far more people survive the flu season without getting immunized then we have with the immunizations. I'm not saying the shots are hurting anyone. I don't know whether they are or not. I'm just saying I think they are fairly unnecessary. People have gotten along fine without them. When I was a kid, we had vaccinations against stuff that was seriously life threatening, and I think those are great. Flu shots just seem excessive to me.

Next we'll be getting notices that it's Salmonella season so we better run to the pharmacy to get our Salmonella vaccinations.

sounds good to me. stomach viruses are terrible. I've had two this year.

 

[MC Safety]

When I saw the 30 Rock episode about flu shots I was highly confused

Flu is actually a huge deal in America? Seems crazy to me, I didn't even know you could get jabs for it until recently :lol

See 1918.

I'm saying that human history is full of viruses that have seriously damaged society and vaccinations against them are a relatively new invention. Influenza is not one of those illnesses that is a threat to humanity. It's a pest, but not a killer. We as a civilization have had far more people survive the flu season without getting immunized then we have with the immunizations. I'm not saying the shots are hurting anyone. I don't know whether they are or not. I'm just saying I think they are fairly unnecessary. People have gotten along fine without them. When I was a kid, we had vaccinations against stuff that was seriously life threatening, and I think those are great. Flu shots just seem excessive to me.

Next we'll be getting notices that it's Salmonella season so we better run to the pharmacy to get our Salmonella vaccinations.

Again, see 1918.

 

[Manics]

See 1918.



Again, see 1918.

Yes, let's look at stuff that happened 92 years ago instead of more recent statistics.

 

[verbum]

I will not be getting one this year.

I also rarely get antibiotics as well. There's no reason for me to be on them for every little thing that I can treat otherwise. I believe there was a study done in Norway that acknowledged that the benefits of antibiotics were counteracted by the bacteria's ability to eventually become resistant.

This is true for bacteria, flu viruses naturally mutate so we get a new strain every year or so.
Here in the southern USA, we are currently having an epidemic of infections of the skin caused by methicillin resistant staphococcus aureus (MRSA). "Methicillin resistant" means the bacteria is unaffected by most of the less costly antibiotics. Luckily it is susceptible to vancomycin (which is expensive and only effective if given via an IV). Some MRSA is susceptible to clindamycin and Septra which can be taken by mouth.
The problem in the USA is that antibacterial soap and antibiotics added to animal feeds exposes various bacteria to antibiotics which can lead to resistance.
And the biggest reason for antibiotic resistance is partial treatments of infections. People get an infection, start taking antibiotics, feel better, and stop taking antibiotics halfway through the course of treatment. The bacteria is not fully eradicated, and can mutate to have resistance to that antibiotic.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

What I don't understand is why did the H1N1 flu become such a hot topic and polarized so many people in the "you must get this shot as your civic duty" camp? The deaths from H1N1 are FAR FEWER than just normal seasonal flu, yet people insisted it was the biggest thing since the Spanish Flu of 100 years ago.

I know the argument coming now "the number of deaths from H1N1 were so slow because of all the responsbile people who got their flu shots last year".

So again I ask, seasonal flu affects far more people and causes far more death, yet only in the last 1-2 years are people insanely passionate about thrusting their vaccine beliefs on you -- why?

I didn't get my H1N1 shot last year and didn't get it. I was even on one of the affected planes coming back from PAX. Part of the issue of the shot for me was that I knew I was in no serious risk. Also, I don't like even the remote possibility that H1N1 was made in a lab and then got out. Especially if the same lab then released a vaccine and sold it to governments around the world.

 

[verbum]

I didn't get my H1N1 shot last year and didn't get it. I was even on one of the affected planes coming back from PAX. Part of the issue of the shot for me was that I knew I was in no serious risk. Also, I don't like even the remote possibility that H1N1 was made in a lab and then got out. Especially if the same lab then released a vaccine and sold it to governments around the world.

Racoon City? Umbrella Labs?

 

[jmdajr]

This is true for bacteria, flu viruses naturally mutate so we get a new strain every year or so.
Here in the southern USA, we are currently having an epidemic of infections of the skin caused by methicillin resistant staphococcus aureus (MRSA). "Methicillin resistant" means the bacteria is unaffected by most of the less costly antibiotics. Luckily it is susceptible to vancomycin (which is expensive and only effective if given via an IV). Some MRSA is susceptible to clindamycin and Septra which can be taken by mouth.
The problem in the USA is that antibacterial soap and antibiotics added to animal feeds exposes various bacteria to antibiotics which can lead to resistance.
And the biggest reason for antibiotic resistance is partial treatments of infections. People get an infection, start taking antibiotics, feel better, and stop taking antibiotics halfway through the course of treatment. The bacteria is not fully eradicated, and can mutate to have resistance to that antibiotic.

I am really scared of getting that

 

[MC Safety]

Yes, let's look at stuff that happened 92 years ago instead of more recent statistics.

You think an epidemic couldn't happen again?

There are more people alive now than there were then, and they are more mobile than they ever were.

Head, meet sand.

 

[Kurtofan]

Say if I get the flu with a suppressed immune system,will I die?

 

[verbum]

I am really scared of getting that

It is treatable. We have infant patients to 18 year old patients who get it and are treated successfully with Septra, clindamycin, or vancomycin. Just means it take longer to subside and for abscesses to heal.

 

[Zoe]

Say if I get the flu with a suppressed immune system,will I die?

Normal people can die from flu complications, so...

 

[jmdajr]

Say if I get the flu with a suppressed immune system,will I die?

It's possible I'm sure

 

[Manics]

GENEVA (Reuters) - The H1N1 pandemic is over and the global outbreak turned out to be much less severe than was feared just over a year ago, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Tuesday.
...
...

"Pandemic and seasonal vaccine in both hemispheres confer the same protection (against H1N1)," Fukuda said.

An estimated 350 million people worldwide have been vaccinated against H1N1, he said.


...
...
...
Some 18,450 people worldwide are confirmed to have died from H1N1 infections, including many pregnant women and young people. But WHO says that it will take at least a year after the pandemic ends to determine the true death toll, which is likely to be much higher.

Seasonal flu kills an estimated 500,000 people a year, 90 percent of them frail elderly people, according to the WHO. The 1957 and 1968 pandemics killed about 2 million and 1 million people, respectively, it says.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_102043.html


So, about 350 million people WORLDWIDE were vaccinated...out of what, 6.5 BILLION PEOPLE? How many of those BILLIONS of people that didn't get any sort of vaccination ended up dying because of H1N1?

Less than 20,000 deaths worldwide out of BILLIONS of people, I have better chance of winning the lottery.

 

[Kurtofan]

It's possible I'm sure

Fuck.
I don't even know if I can take the shot...

 

[jmdajr]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_102043.html


So, about 350 million people WORLDWIDE were vaccinated...out of what, 6.5 BILLION PEOPLE? How many of those BILLIONS of people that didn't get any sort of vaccination ended up dying because of H1N1?

I think they lucked out out. We should be happy.

 

[jmdajr]

It is treatable. We have infant patients to 18 year old patients who get it and are treated successfully with Septra, clindamycin, or vancomycin. Just means it take longer to subside and for abscesses to heal.

I heard a story from a co-worker telling me a person she knew died after getting a staph infection in her eye. Apparently got it at the gym. Man..how horrible to go out like that.

 

[verbum]

Say if I get the flu with a suppressed immune system,will I die?

Not necessarily.

Coming to get you:

 

[Manics]

It is treatable. We have infant patients to 18 year old patients who get it and are treated successfully with Septra, clindamycin, or vancomycin. Just means it take longer to subside and for abscesses to heal.

It's pretty sad that I know what clindamycin is, i've been on that drug before, only shit that works for me sometimes when I get a throat infection. :lol

 

[ianp622]

I'm saying that human history is full of viruses that have seriously damaged society and vaccinations against them are a relatively new invention. Influenza is not one of those illnesses that is a threat to humanity. It's a pest, but not a killer. We as a civilization have had far more people survive the flu season without getting immunized then we have with the immunizations. I'm not saying the shots are hurting anyone. I don't know whether they are or not. I'm just saying I think they are fairly unnecessary. People have gotten along fine without them. When I was a kid, we had vaccinations against stuff that was seriously life threatening, and I think those are great. Flu shots just seem excessive to me.

Next we'll be getting notices that it's Salmonella season so we better run to the pharmacy to get our Salmonella vaccinations.

Russian Flu - 1 million deaths
1918 Flu Pandemic - 50 million deaths (some estimates put it at 100 million, which would be more than the Black Death)

Flu Vaccines are invented

Hong Kong flu - 1 million deaths

And so far we haven't had anything like the 1918 Flu Pandemic. I'm inclined to believe this isn't coincidence.

 

[Manics]

Russian Flu - 1 million deaths
1918 Flu Pandemic - 50 million deaths (some estimates put it at 100 million, which would be more than the Black Death)

Flu Vaccines are invented

Hong Kong flu - 1 million deaths

And so far we haven't had anything like the 1918 Flu Pandemic. I'm inclined to believe this isn't coincidence.

Cancer rates have gone up since flu vaccines were invented. That evidence is about as solid as your connection.

 

[mjc]

I haven't had a flu shot in at least 5 years now. I've only had the stomach flu once since then, and no traditional cases of the head flu. I just don't get sick outside of colds.