• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Titan: Nasa scientists discover evidence 'that alien life exists on Saturn's moon'

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deku

Banned
Scalemail Ted said:
seems like a pretty big leap based off the info provided in the article

article summarizes scientific study published on journals which mention this.

it also cautions that there are other possible reasons for it but two observations looking at different things backing up the life hypothesis is stronger than just one well documented observation, which is why people are getting excited. But this, as well as the mysterious methane on Mars and tantalizing hints at life.

There's no leap in the article or on the journals.
 

Big-ass Ramp

hella bullets that's true
Bob Loblaw said:
Big whoop. It's only logical there's life outside of earth. We're all part of the same universe. Earth isn't special.


GOD! You are a fucking downer!

Jocchan said:
I for one welcome our new Titan overlords.

No no. Didn't you read? They're in a weak formation stage of their existence. Let's enslave them while we still can. Under my plans, we could have aliens running our McDonalds by 2015. We can begin drilling for their fuel shortly after that.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Scalemail Ted said:
seems like a pretty big leap based off the info provided in the article

Actually, the leap necessary for the gas to just disappear if there isn't something performing aerobic respiration is likely bigger ;)
 

Big-ass Ramp

hella bullets that's true
Deku said:
at best its gloop. you want to have sex with slime?


C4yXz.gif



Get that gloop ass over here
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
CurlySaysX said:
This was already suggested in some 2009 BBC Documentary. 'Wonders of the Universe' or something.

What was? The specific evidence ... or that Titan may be suitable for life? If it's that latter, that's been suggested ever since I can remember ... and I'm old :p
 

Monocle

Member
I hope this is real. It would be outstanding if the first form of alien life we discovered was as complex as the article suggests. Imagine how much scientists could learn about biology from an actual specimen.

Bob Loblaw said:
Big whoop. It's only logical there's life outside of earth. We're all part of the same universe. Earth isn't special.
LOL nihilism. Any planet that can produce intelligent life is precious beyond price. Piss off.
 

Clevinger

Member
Raistlin said:
What was? The specific evidence ... or that Titan may be suitable for life? If it's that latter, that's been suggested ever since I can remember ... and I'm old :p

It wasn't really anything new. The guy just talked about how life could live under Mars' surface and on Titan and looking at some of the more incredible organisms on Earth that survive in extraordinary conditions like Snottites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdwS9v8zBpQ

It was a pretty cool documentary. It's basically Cosmos, but much shorter and much prettier.


CurlySaysX said:
This was already suggested in some 2009 BBC Documentary. 'Wonders of the Universe' or something.


Wonders of the Solar System.
 

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
You guys all realise how incredibly sensationalist this is, right? As well as realise this is from the Telegraph.

What I don't understand is why you must also translate that sensationalism to the thread title.
 

Deku

Banned
KimiSan said:
You guys all realise how incredibly sensationalist this is, right? As well as realise this is from the Telegraph.

What I don't understand is why you must also translate that sensationalism to the thread title.
people make sensationalist titles all the time to generate hits.


no one is going crazy over the news, we are hopeful and excited. Everyone know the caveats, but the observations are interesting. Space-GAF has brains
 

jaxword

Member
Monocle said:
I hope this is real. It would be outstanding if the first form of alien life we discovered was as complex as the article suggests. Imagine how much scientists could learn about biology from an actual specimen.

As long as it doesn't involve the atheist evil of EVOLUTION. I don't abide my children being taught that, and no aliens will make me change my views.
 

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
Here is the article about the same two papers on NASA's site:
PASADENA, Calif. - Two new papers based on data from NASA's Cassini spacecraft scrutinize the complex chemical activity on the surface of Saturn's moon Titan. While non-biological chemistry offers one possible explanation, some scientists believe these chemical signatures bolster the argument for a primitive, exotic form of life or precursor to life on Titan's surface. According to one theory put forth by astrobiologists, the signatures fulfill two important conditions necessary for a hypothesized "methane-based life."

One key finding comes from a paper online now in the journal Icarus that shows hydrogen molecules flowing down through Titan's atmosphere and disappearing at the surface. Another paper online now in the Journal of Geophysical Research maps hydrocarbons on the Titan surface and finds a lack of acetylene.

This lack of acetylene is important because that chemical would likely be the best energy source for a methane-based life on Titan, said Chris McKay, an astrobiologist at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., who proposed a set of conditions necessary for this kind of methane-based life on Titan in 2005. One interpretation of the acetylene data is that the hydrocarbon is being consumed as food. But McKay said the flow of hydrogen is even more critical because all of their proposed mechanisms involved the consumption of hydrogen.

"We suggested hydrogen consumption because it's the obvious gas for life to consume on Titan, similar to the way we consume oxygen on Earth," McKay said. "If these signs do turn out to be a sign of life, it would be doubly exciting because it would represent a second form of life independent from water-based life on Earth."

To date, methane-based life forms are only hypothetical. Scientists have not yet detected this form of life anywhere, though there are liquid-water-based microbes on Earth that thrive on methane or produce it as a waste product. On Titan, where temperatures are around 90 Kelvin (minus 290 degrees Fahrenheit), a methane-based organism would have to use a substance that is liquid as its medium for living processes, but not water itself. Water is frozen solid on Titan's surface and much too cold to support life as we know it.

The list of liquid candidates is very short: liquid methane and related molecules like ethane. While liquid water is widely regarded as necessary for life, there has been extensive speculation published in the scientific literature that this is not a strict requirement.

The new hydrogen findings are consistent with conditions that could produce an exotic, methane-based life form, but do not definitively prove its existence, said Darrell Strobel, a Cassini interdisciplinary scientist based at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Md., who authored the paper on hydrogen.

Strobel, who studies the upper atmospheres of Saturn and Titan, analyzed data from Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer and ion and neutral mass spectrometer in his new paper. The paper describes densities of hydrogen in different parts of the atmosphere and the surface. Previous models had predicted that hydrogen molecules, a byproduct of ultraviolet sunlight breaking apart acetylene and methane molecules in the upper atmosphere, should be distributed fairly evenly throughout the atmospheric layers.

Strobel found a disparity in the hydrogen densities that lead to a flow down to the surface at a rate of about 10,000 trillion trillion hydrogen molecules per second. This is about the same rate at which the molecules escape out of the upper atmosphere.

"It's as if you have a hose and you're squirting hydrogen onto the ground, but it's disappearing," Strobel said. "I didn't expect this result, because molecular hydrogen is extremely chemically inert in the atmosphere, very light and buoyant. It should 'float' to the top of the atmosphere and escape."

Strobel said it is not likely that hydrogen is being stored in a cave or underground space on Titan. The Titan surface is also so cold that a chemical process that involved a catalyst would be needed to convert hydrogen molecules and acetylene back to methane, even though overall there would be a net release of energy. The energy barrier could be overcome if there were an unknown mineral acting as the catalyst on Titan's surface.

The hydrocarbon mapping research, led by Roger Clark, a Cassini team scientist based at the U.S. Geological Survey in Denver, examines data from Cassini's visual and infrared mapping spectrometer. Scientists had expected the sun's interactions with chemicals in the atmosphere to produce acetylene that falls down to coat the Titan surface. But Cassini detected no acetylene on the surface.

In addition Cassini's spectrometer detected an absence of water ice on the Titan surface, but loads of benzene and another material, which appears to be an organic compound that scientists have not yet been able to identify. The findings lead scientists to believe that the organic compounds are shellacking over the water ice that makes up Titan's bedrock with a film of hydrocarbons at least a few millimeters to centimeters thick, but possibly much deeper in some places. The ice remains covered up even as liquid methane and ethane flow all over Titan's surface and fill up lakes and seas much as liquid water does on Earth.

"Titan's atmospheric chemistry is cranking out organic compounds that rain down on the surface so fast that even as streams of liquid methane and ethane at the surface wash the organics off, the ice gets quickly covered again," Clark said. "All that implies Titan is a dynamic place where organic chemistry is happening now."

The absence of detectable acetylene on the Titan surface can very well have a non-biological explanation, said Mark Allen, principal investigator with the NASA Astrobiology Institute Titan team. Allen is based at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Allen said one possibility is that sunlight or cosmic rays are transforming the acetylene in icy aerosols in the atmosphere into more complex molecules that would fall to the ground with no acetylene signature.

"Scientific conservatism suggests that a biological explanation should be the last choice after all non-biological explanations are addressed," Allen said. "We have a lot of work to do to rule out possible non-biological explanations. It is more likely that a chemical process, without biology, can explain these results - for example, reactions involving mineral catalysts."

"These new results are surprising and exciting," said Linda Spilker, Cassini project scientist at JPL. "Cassini has many more flybys of Titan that might help us sort out just what is happening at the surface."

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, manages the mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. The Cassini orbiter was designed, developed and assembled at JPL.

For more information about the Cassini-Huygens mission visit http://www.nasa.gov/cassini and http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-190&rn=news.xml&rst=2623
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
So, life could be festering all over the Huygens probe, and we'd have no idea :(

We really need to start sending probes to these places that can actually answer these questions definitively. Not duct-taping cellphone cameras to the side.
 

Deku

Banned
gofreak said:
So, life could be festering all over the Huygens probe, and we'd have no idea :(

We really need to start sending probes to these places that can actually answer these questions definitively. Not duct-taping cellphone cameras to the side.

Huygens was launched in 1997 and landed in Dec 2004. people forget how long it takes to reach the outer solar system with current propulsion system and grav-assisted slingshots to the outer planets.

In contrast Opportunity/Spirit were launched less than a year before they landed.

Huge difference. Digital camera tech/miniaturization advanced by leaps and bounds between the Cassini design phase and its arrival on Saturn.
 

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
gofreak said:
So, life could be festering all over the Huygens probe, and we'd have no idea :(

We really need to start sending probes to these places that can actually answer these questions definitively. Not duct-taping cellphone cameras to the side.
Well, it's not as if they're not trying.

Also:
220px-TSSM-TandEM-Montgolfiere.jpg
220px-TSSM-TandEM-Lander.jpg
 

Deku

Banned
sinxtanx said:
Nice theory, now send a probe to confirm/deny asap!
Dilly-dallying in any form will not be accepted.

It takes years to design a probe with the proper capabilities to conduct the science they need, many more years to test each component so a billion dollar mission doesn't go down the tubes from one failure., then 5-10 years for the probe to reach the planet.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
This is very exciting news! I have always been pretty sure that there's life elsewhere (I mean, to think otherwise is just irrational, given the unimaginable number of planets out there), but that there's possibly life in our very own solar system is something I did not expect!
 

Monocle

Member
jaxword said:
As long as it doesn't involve the atheist evil of EVOLUTION. I don't abide my children being taught that, and no aliens will make me change my views.
Why we still got obligate anaerobes?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Clevinger said:

FFS. At this rate I'll be lucky to get two such missions within my lifetime.

Not to be selfish about it, but hurry up with the big game-changing breakthroughs, science!

edit - just reading about it, I can't believe it'll be 10+ years before we can even launch this mission. Is it because we have to wait for the circumstances to be right for slingshots? If not...man...just replicate the last effort, and slap some modern camera equipment and microscopes on there and GET IT UP!
 

Walshicus

Member
I'm willing to bet that at least one world of the Titan / Mars / Europa group has primitive life. Europa and Titan are the most interesting because we know any Martian life has to be microbial or similarly small.

I expect Titan's life [if it exists] would be small too - no big creatures. The best thing about Europa is that with it's ocean larger than all of those on Earth, it wouldn't be a complete shock to see fish-analogues there.
 

-viper-

Banned
Why is everyone getting excited? This only sounds like they are speculating. There isn't proof of alien life on the planet.

But given how there are billions of planets out there, I am certain there is more life out there. Whether we'll see them is another thing :p
 

Escape Goat

Member
-viper- said:
Why is everyone getting excited? This only sounds like they are speculating. There isn't proof of alien life on the planet.

But given how there are billions of planets out there, I am certain there is more life out there. Whether we'll see them is another thing :p

Article cautioned its one of many possible explanations. GAF has selective reading problems.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
-viper- said:
Why is everyone getting excited? This only sounds like they are speculating. There isn't proof of alien life on the planet.

But given how there are billions of planets out there, I am certain there is more life out there. Whether we'll see them is another thing :p

It's gonna get worse - we're 5 years away from regularly finding earth sized planets within a star's habitable zone and 10-15 years away from getting quality spectral data.
 

LFG

Neophyte
i just hope they can 100% confirm life elsewhere in the universe before i die. is that asking for too much?
 

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
Hari Seldon said:
NASA shit canned a nuclear powered super-probe to visit the Jupiter moons due to funding cuts due to the wars. They could have sent that design to Titan with no problem being that they would have had a design for it already completed in 2017. :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Icy_Moons_Orbiter
I don't see the problem, there's the Europa-Jupiter mission. So you lose.. Callisto?
Then there's the Titan-Saturn mission mentioned above later, so this mission didn't die in vain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom