Support NeoGAF

[Dreams-Visions]

I hope they open it up for PC gamers...while maintaining the vast majority of games to stick to the desired 6v6.

but to "open it up" is to suggest it's closed for some sort of technical reason when it isn't. According to Respawn, the game is best experiences at 6v6 and they tried it with a variety of player counts. It's simply better this way and those who have played the game seem to universally agree.

Let's wait and see if those opinions are wrong by way of some gameplay footage.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Man this whole thread is funny.

Ardent defenders -- who've never played the game -- are fashioning all manner of apology and poor analogies because they don't know what the game experience is like either which, of course, does nothing to help the cause because people see right through it. You don't understand it better than anyone else who hasn't played it. Ardent attackers -- who've never played the game -- continue to use their past FPS game experience and design understanding as a bat to hit Titanfall over the head with. It's not fitting into their conventions of what an FPS is (or should be) and since they don't know any better they're shitting on the idea that something could be different and good without even waiting to see footage with which to make a proper assessment.

The whole thread is irritating. Lots of blind soldiers and persecution complexes on full display. Again, the sooner Respawn posts some vids of this MP experience with some developer commentary, the better. Personally I'll take the word of those who've played the game and said it's fucking awesome over anyone pontificating with nothing but conjecture here. Your mileage may vary.

Can only speak for myself, but my first impression was there would be a whole bunch of guys jet packing around, taking on other guys jet packing around, or other guys in Titans. I assumed that Titans would be supplementary instead of everyone getting one and it would be a high speed game of moving from point to point, taking on Titans and their footsoldier PC tag alongs.

Instead it's just CoD with jet packs and a bunch of AI NPCs. Six versus six and the game has a gun that auto aims up to at least three people.

 

[mancan92]

Wow Ive been away a couple days and have just come to this thread. Good lord this is one of the worst Ive seen. How can hardware limitations be reason for 6v6. Anyway at what point did 6v6 gameplay become bad? after all halo was 4v4 and it was perfect. As soon as its anyhting microsoft it just becomes a horrible thread instantly because of pure fanboism.

GAF this is a dark day

 

[Alienous]

I'd argue that a lot of developers would like to limit the lower end of multiplayer games as well, if it was feasible. However as Anarchy Reigns and Lost Planet so aptly demonstrated, it isn't. Because not being able to start a game due to being one player short, and one person keeps leaving out of frustration just before another joins, will kill a game quick.

Scaling downwards is also generally less harmful to the gameplay. Using Quake as an example again, if you had a map for 4 people but only had two, the game still worked well enough, and just became more of a duel. Place 8 people in that map however, and people couldn't focus on battles as there was also 2-3 other people fighting in an area, there would be insufficient spawn points, and so people started to get spawn fragged regularly. Weapons became to spare, as 3 guns and 1 armor for 8 people simply wasn't enough (especially when you were dying every 5 seconds).

That example would work better if you used 6 as the higher player count.

Then you'd be comparing a lack of combat to too much combat. Being crowded to being empty, to a more fairly comparable degree. Being spawned too far from action, to being spawned too close to it. Having the weapons not contested as ideal (too many for the player count vs. too few).

But no, they aren't the exact same thing. But they would differ from the ideal gameplay, just in different ways. For instance, a duel vs. an all out skirmish. Neither is objectively better than the other.

 

[Synth]

but to "open it up" is to suggest it's closed for some sort of technical reason when it isn't. According to Respawn, the game is best experiences at 6v6 and they tried it with a variety of player counts. It's simply better this way and those who have played the game seem to universally agree.

Let's wait and see if those opinions are wrong by way of some gameplay footage.

To be fair, most of those people would never have played the other version to be able to make a comparison.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I don't get how Respawn plans to balance a game with huge mechas for small scale gameplay. I mean, either the mechas are as weak as 1-2 players to compensate for the small team size which means they suck or they will be so OP that you can kill the whole enemy team in one. Neither option sounds like it would make for fun gameplay.

 

[Htown]

This whole thing is super dumb on both sides, but my question is the following:

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

The quote came out yesterday, the discussion hasn't even been going for 24 hours, yet you have people jumping in and going "you are stupid for complaining about this and here's why, you no-understanding-having jerks."

Are they working PR?

It's like they feel personally insulted that people are complaining about Respawn's new opus. Kuchera in particular is embarassing.

 

[lastflowers]

but to "open it up" is to suggest it's closed for some sort of technical reason when it isn't. According to Respawn, the game is best experiences at 6v6 and they tried it with a variety of player counts. It's simply better this way and those who have played the game seem to universally agree.

Let's wait and see if those opinions are wrong by way of some gameplay footage.

I think CS is far,far,far,far,far better at 5v5 rather than 32v32, but occasionally fucking around in a public server on fy_iceworld is fun with 64 players on it.

and like I said, I'm extremely pleased about their desire for promoting 6v6 matches

 

[xHunter]

I could swear that i played this 12 v 12 at gamescom. Feld like it was the ideal number of players, but lets see how it works out.

 

[xxracerxx]

I could swear that i played this 12 v 12 at gamescom. Feld like it was the ideal number of players, but lets see how it works out.

6 Players | 6 Bots vs. 6 Players | 6 Bots

Or were there 24 people in the room with you as well? It would be funny if that was the case and they had two separate games set-up. I mean who would even know?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

drr what how are creeps not important, Good creep management and last hitting is the difference between a victory and a defeat in a Dota game, especially considering how snowball heavy the game is. Unless killing this these NPC, continually making you stronger ala full blow kill streaks , I can't see how they'll be more significant.

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I'm saying I think the AI will be more significant LIKE creeps are significant as opposed to say the AI soldiers you fight alongside in a Halo campaign. Hopefully I clarified that in my last post. And again, I'll fully admit it's not a perfect comparison.

6 Players | 6 Bots vs. 6 Players | 6 Bots

Or were there 24 people in the room with you as well? It would be funny if that was the case and they had two separate games set-up. I mean who would even know?

The tweet from Abbey Heppe linked earlier said all the demos have been 6 on 6 (plus AI soldiers of course).

 

[BadAss2961]

Console warriors all up in this bitch.... Smh.

I literally have to stop reading because my heart can't take it sometimes.

 

[Synth]

That example would work better if you used 6 as the higher player count.

Then you'd be comparing a lack of combat to too much combat. Being crowded to being empty, to a more fairly comparable degree. Being spawned to far from action, too being spawned too close to it. Having the weapons not contested as ideal (too many for the player count vs. too few).

But no, they aren't the exact same thing. But they would differ from the ideal gameplay, just in different ways. For instance, a duel vs. an all out skirmish. Neither is objectively better than the other.

I was working with multiples, as that's commonly how the limits are set (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64).

I could retool the example using Q3's team deathmatch as a closer comparison, ramping it up from 4 vs 4 to 6 vs 6. That actually blows up TDM worse than the FFA example in my opinion as item resourcing and controlling an area becomes far more important than in FFA.

Obviously I can't directly apply this to every game (I know very little about games like Battlefield). But for Quake and other games like it, having fewer players isn't even close to the detrimental effect of having too many. It simply scaled downwards far better, which is why 2v2 was quite common, and yet over 4v4 wasn't done very often at all.

 

[Bgamer90]

I literally have to stop reading because my heart can't take it sometimes.

Haha, nice.

 

[kinggroin]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

 

[Madness]

This design/experience isn't hardly a new concept to gamers. Nor are bots. Which is why some are weary. Are you getting this?

The opinion is there that is a let down, for the type of game it is. You might not enjoy large number matches, I might not, but some gamers do, for a myriad of their own reasons. You and I aside, Its a let down to people that feel they've got a grasp of what type of game Titan Fall is.

I can understand where people are coming from. They aren't doing some new-to-us gameplay dynamic, again, its more of the same shit with less players that can actually join a game. If this was some sort of more intimate gameplay i'd say its clear that its what the devs are doing, not being blasted as showing off the Xbox one's abilities, being a large 'exclusive', coming from COD herritage, questions about it taking sales from the COD franchise etc, We'd all be on the same page here. I just don't see the game you're looking at, to be completely flabbergasted by anyone with an opposing opinion that this is a let down.

People have been playing these type of FPS's, with these game sizes balanced perfectly fine for decades. We aren't talking about some amazing innovation that is going over peoples heads. Its just what it is.

I don't think that I'll be able to convey this any better than I have. But wanted to at least respond to the absurd notion that people are demanding large numbers of unbalanced game play, that isn't the argument going on here, nor is it what anyone is saying. Everything you're responding to, seems to be with that in your head. That people are demanding high player counts, or nothing. Just like the HD thing, it wasn't that "HD and HD alone is important, period!" It was hd at a good framerate is desirable, more so than sub-hd. Thats all. No need for assumptions to be made that 1 person just wants a hd frame at 4fps.

edit;

People will have to play it to confirm whatever their positions are at this point. But both sides of the coin seem pretty understandable right now.

Uh, I never once mentioned HD? Also, I enjoy all types of multiplayer games, from team doubles 2v2 in halo, to large Battlefield 4 matches, what I'm saying is, when the fucking devs of TitanFall have said they wanted 6v6 and designed the gameplay, maps, and everything else around it, why are people criticizing it? Should I criticize Battlefield because it's not really designed for 2v2 play blah blah?

Why does every game have to be a jack of all trades, master of none approach? If you only enjoy large player count games, keep playing those. But quit expecting everything but the kitchen sink in games. Its why this industry is struggling, we want new experiences and new ways to play, but then we also want games to conform exactly how we want. I want to play TitanFall, I want to play it how the devs want me to. I don't want to play it based on how I play Halo or Battlefield.

 

[xHunter]

6 Players | 6 Bots vs. 6 Players | 6 Bots

Or were there 24 people in the room with you as well? It would be funny if that was the case and they had two separate games set-up. I mean who would even know?

I might have to double check but i think that we were 48 People in the room per session. At first i thought it was gonna be 24 v 24 but they had 2 matches set up, so it was 12 v 12 plus a few AI.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

Joke post?

 

[Bgamer90]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

...What?!?!?

 

[Grief.exe]

That's straight from Respawn. And yet people want to act like they're more knowledgeable about why they chose 6v6, player limitations, blah blah. They feel 6v6 gave them the best option, so they designed the game around that player count. They didn't want anything higher.

And Respawn said it best if you want 32v32 Battlefield style gameplay, go play Battlefield. Not every shooter needs to be homogenized and be the same.

The irony of that joke being that Battlefield really isn't in a playable state right now.

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

After reading this entire thread, I can't even tell anymore.

 

[IcyEyes]

nvm.

 

[zashga]

Smaller teams than I expected. I guess my touchstone vehicle-based scifi shooter is still Tribes. That had 64-player matches what, 15 years ago?

 

[kinggroin]

Joke post?

...What?!?!?

Laugh at me.

You cookie cutter motherfuckers can't handle a different opinion then? You guys are moist dudes.

 

[antitrop]

This whole thing is super dumb on both sides, but my question is the following:

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

The quote came out yesterday, the discussion hasn't even been going for 24 hours, yet you have people jumping in and going "you are stupid for complaining about this and here's why, you no-understanding-having jerks."

Are they working PR?

It's like they feel personally insulted that people are complaining about Respawn's new opus. Kuchera in particular is embarassing.

Well, Kuchera has actually played the game, several times, so that is something. It's a rare opportunity for him to speak from a position of knowledge to those in ignorance.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Console warriors? I don't even play MP FPS on consoles Cept a few matches of bf4 on ps4. PC all the way, which is why 6 v 6 is fine if the game is designed around that number.

PC gamers know where the shit is at...Team deathmatch or Duel 2 v 2, 3 v 3, or 4 v 4.

I've played Quake, CS, BF, Unreal and planetside. All different kinds of games, and all fun. Wait till the game comes, if it sucks i'm sure it won't be because of player count.

 

[thepotatoman]

I have to say that dismissing people as "armchair designers" is one of the doucheyest things you can say.

It's basically taking a completely subjective opinion about a subjective topic and saying that those views are objectively wrong and dumb using an elitist argument from authority.

It's a dumb term and I really hope this term stays as far away from video games as possible.

 

[Doc Holliday]

This whole thing is super dumb on both sides, but my question is the following:

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

The quote came out yesterday, the discussion hasn't even been going for 24 hours, yet you have people jumping in and going "you are stupid for complaining about this and here's why, you no-understanding-having jerks."

Are they working PR?

It's like they feel personally insulted that people are complaining about Respawn's new opus. Kuchera in particular is embarassing.

Because it's a dumb reason to put down a game before even playing it.

PS before i get called xbox fanboy or some shit. I don't own one, and not planning on getting one. ps4, WiiU and PC

 

[mancan92]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

What is this nonsens?

console wars goddamn they get to people's head.

 

[Synth]

This whole thing is super dumb on both sides, but my question is the following:

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

The quote came out yesterday, the discussion hasn't even been going for 24 hours, yet you have people jumping in and going "you are stupid for complaining about this and here's why, you no-understanding-having jerks."

Are they working PR?

It's like they feel personally insulted that people are complaining about Respawn's new opus. Kuchera in particular is embarassing.

I haven't actually followed any of what the media is saying, but I feel like I've read enough of this thread to somewhat answer this.

The problem isn't that some people prefer larger player counts. The problem is that many people refuse to believe that anyone could possibly want to limit the number of players by design. Every game apparently contains the maximum amount of players that the given hardware can handle. Also the devs are lying about it being a choice, and they mislead everyone all along, never once indicating that it contained AI units alongside human players.

That's basically what's going on.

 

[Grief.exe]

I haven't actually followed any of what the media is saying, but I feel like I've read enough of this thread to somewhat answer this.

The problem isn't that some people prefer larger player counts. The problem is that many people refuse to believe that anyone could possibly want to limit the number of players by design. Every game apparently contains the maximum amount of players that the given hardware can handle. Also the devs are lying about it being a choice, and they mislead everyone all along, never once indicating that it contained AI units alongside human players.

That's basically what's going on.

This is what people actually think.

You also need to add on that people think the game would be objectively better with significantly more players. Essentially fun can be directly correlated to player count.

 

[kinggroin]

What is this nonsens?

console wars goddamn they get to people's head.

So do you have a legitimate response to counter my facts. I think its pretty obvious that my opinions are accurate.


If no one can come up with a good debate then the thread should be closed after my post.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I have to say that dismissing people as "armchair designers" is one of the doucheyest things you can say.

It's basically taking a completely subjective opinion about a subjective topic and saying that those views are objectively wrong and dumb using an elitist argument from authority.

It's a dumb term and I really hope this term stays as far away from video games as possible.

In general sure. But in this thread, people are shitting on a plan without knowing any of the requisite information they need to generate a fucking opinion in the first place. Ask anyone here who's posted that 6v6 is questionable to explain how Titanfall multiplayer works.

Enjoy the non-responses. That's really the point. You can't suppose your idea is better than the designers of the game who've actually played it and know how the game works when you have neither played it nor know how it works. That's the definition of armchair designing.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I have to say that dismissing people as "armchair designers" is one of the doucheyest things you can say.

There is a reason its called that.

 

[Solid Samus]

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

Probably because they could feel pronounced tremors as hundreds of armchairs shifted in unison, their inhabitants ready to yet again demonstrate their vast game development knowledge and understanding over these lowly paid professionals developing the game

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Blatant trolling and uninformed rubbish gets pulled up on and it's classed as persecution complexes.

 

[zainetor]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

some people are acting like X1 is as powerful as the ouya.

It could be true for the 360 version , but for x1? I hope you really dont believe it.

 

[mancan92]

Probably because they could feel pronounced tremors as hundreds of armchairs shifted in unison, their inhabitants ready to yet again demonstrate their vast game development knowledge and understanding over these lowly paid professionals

Man this is a great post.

 

[sirseanconnery]

Well it is Day 2 of Shitstorm Titanfall and the conditions do not seem to be improving. Stay with us for updates as this storm develops.

 

[Synth]

In general sure. But in this thread, people are shitting on a plan without knowing any of the requisite information they need to generate a fucking opinion in the first place. Ask anyone here who's posted that 6v6 is questionable to explain how Titanfall multiplayer works.

Enjoy the non-responses. That's really the point. You can't suppose your idea is better than the designers of the game who've actually played it and know how the game works when you have neither played it nor know how it works. That's the definition of armchair designing.

Don't forget that they also know how the performance holds up under the load of any other players.

Armchair designers is pretty damn mild for some of the stuff in this thread.

 

[kinggroin]

some people are acting like X1 is as powerful as the ouya.

It could be true for the 360 version , but for x1? I hope you really dont believe it.

Lololol!!! C'mon, weaker than PS4 doesn't mean Ouya. Let's not get crazy here otherwise the thread will spin out of control. Its portant to read carefully and not deeper than what's on paper.

 

[abadguy]

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.
How low can these companies go?!?

Do more what exactly? Player count? People continue to continue to allude to X1's capabilities being the reason this game is only sporting 6v6( assuming that you're trying to make that argument, maybe i am misunderstanding) when there is another shooter on the very same console sporting 64 player matches.

 

[kinggroin]

Do more what exactly? Player count? People continue to continue to allude to X1's capabilities being the reason this game is only sporting 6v6( assuming that you're trying to make that argument, maybe i am misunderstanding) when there is another shooter on the very same console sporting 64 player matches.

64 player matches with zero mechs. BIG difference.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Why are certain members of the games press jumping so quickly to defend a game that isn't even out yet?

Presumably because they've played the game and consequently find the conversation being had here and across interwebz to be a non-existent controversy that no game should have to be bothered with?

Don't forget that they also know how the performance holds up under the load of any other players.

Armchair designers is pretty damn mild for some of the stuff in this thread.

agreed. the comments that the limitation must be caused by the One really just highlights the deficiency of information out there. Again, Respawn needs to fix this.

 

[Just_myles]

Ardent defenders -- who've never played the game -- are fashioning all manner of apology and poor analogies because they don't know what the game experience is like either which, of course, does nothing to help the cause because people see right through it. You don't understand it better than anyone else who hasn't played it. Ardent attackers -- who've never played the game -- continue to use their past FPS game experience and design understanding as a bat to hit Titanfall over the head with. It's not fitting into their conventions of what an FPS is (or should be) and since they don't know any better they're shitting on the idea that something could be different and good without even waiting to see footage with which to make a proper assessment.

I have no gripes or qualms with the multiplayer count as long as I can jump in and out of giant robots. I believe you might be investing too much into the silly post from people who haven't played it (myself included).

 

[SmackAttack]

Was expecting more (like some mentioned 12 v 12 seemed right) but if this is what Respawn feels is best, then I'll take their word for it. Though I haven't played it, the footage I've seen has looked great and if it was 6 v 6 the whole time, then they fooled me. Still excited for this anyway.

 

[Ominym]

Guys, I have the best idea for a game here it is (patent pending, don't take pls.)

Best Game Ever Feature List:
- Infinite stuff.
- Infinite things.
- All of the players.
- Endless graphics.

Why hasn't anyone thought of this? More = better. Everyone knows this. Gameplay designers must be sitting there just drooling into their keyboards all day trying to come up with peasant concepts like "gun play" and "balance".

 

[Synth]

6vs6 it's fine ... I really don't see the problem.

My only *real* issue with this game is : Will I enjoy it using a pad on my PC ?

If you have to ask... you're going to get destroyed.

64 player matches with zero mechs. BIG difference.

You're having way too much fun in here. It should be illegal.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

So do you have a legitimate response to counter my facts. I think its pretty obvious that my opinions are accurate.


If no one can come up with a good debate then the thread should be closed after my post.

I honestly still can't tell if you're trolling but assuming you're not: Nothing other than the bolded is a verifiable fact.

I don't get why they're limiting all versions when the PS4 and PC are more than capable of doing more.

With it being exclusive to 360 for a temp period, I bet its because MS wants a way to minimize the power difference between their next gen system and Sony's.

How low can these companies go?!?

Everything else you mentioned is pure speculation and conspiracy theory on your part and really doesn't merit a response. Also, you are aware this game isn't coming to PS4 right?

 

[Htown]

Presumably because they've played the game and consequently find the conversation being had here and across interwebz to be a non-existent controversy that no game should have to be bothered with?

Meh, I guess

 

[abadguy]

64 player matches with zero mechs. BIG difference.

Explain what the mechs have to do with anything. I don't play much BF but i do see people using tanks and copters in MP. Mechs are basically walking tanks so yeah my point still stands.

I have to say that dismissing people as "armchair designers" is one of the doucheyest things you can say.

It's basically taking a completely subjective opinion about a subjective topic and saying that those views are objectively wrong and dumb using an elitist argument from authority.

It's a dumb term and I really hope this term stays as far away from video games as possible.

Not in this thread it isn't and i am of the opinion that he was being too nice. In the same situation i would be much less "classy" after reading many posts here.