They're doing an incredible job at clamping down on other companies who are way worse than Amazon /s
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TNR: Amazon's Monopoly Must Be Broken Up; "It's Cannibalizing The Economy"
- Thread starter benjipwns
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They're doing an incredible job at clamping down on other companies who are way worse than Amazon /s
Wafflecakes
Member
The Newegg situation is completely different.
They can compete because they sell niche products for the tech community in greater volume than Amazon. Thus making it so they can undercut their prices.
There is no equivalent in books.
Caddywompus
Member
I've been using Amazon less and less. They up'd the cost of free shipping to $35. Seem like any small item I'm interested in is now an Add-on and I have to spend $25+ to get it. Now they have that Amazon Pantry tier for food too. Last few times I've used Prime 2 day shipping it took 5 days to get here.
But their customer service is still far superior and second to none.
But their customer service is still far superior and second to none.
benjipwns
Banned
Their retail stores basically. They have to keep far more inventory on hand for longer periods. Plus all the costs of the stores themselves.
Interestingly, Walmart's site-to-store really did rustle some Amazon jimmies because of that existing and powerful infrastructure.
Wafflecakes
Member
I dare you to find one company that threatens a specific market more than Amazon does with books/publishing.
Most of Amazon's competitors are incompetent. Either they carry a far smaller selection, they are more expensive, they hound you with upsells and bother you for loss-prevention tactics. Barns and Nobel can't even price match their own website.
Amazon is just the meteor hitting the dinosaurs who had it good up until now.
Same with publishers. I'm not really sure why a publisher is needed in 2014 but considering they basically all colluded to raise prices I'm pretty sure they're just freaking out because they are also a relic. I doesn't help that a bunch of old guard authors have Stockholm syndrome.
Even local business is not worth saving if it just offers the same nationally available and commoditized products. What good is it for me to spend more just so they can continue to do a mediocre job. If there's something special about them like unique products or services then I and others would still shop there. But I can buy that DVD anywhere so I might as well optimize.
Amazon isn't much of a monopoly. Certainly not in retail. The closest place is eReaders and eBooks but it never played dirty to get there, just smart. They're hardly invincible but the rest of the market wants to continue how it's always been and that's simply not going to work anymore.
Amazon is just the meteor hitting the dinosaurs who had it good up until now.
Same with publishers. I'm not really sure why a publisher is needed in 2014 but considering they basically all colluded to raise prices I'm pretty sure they're just freaking out because they are also a relic. I doesn't help that a bunch of old guard authors have Stockholm syndrome.
Even local business is not worth saving if it just offers the same nationally available and commoditized products. What good is it for me to spend more just so they can continue to do a mediocre job. If there's something special about them like unique products or services then I and others would still shop there. But I can buy that DVD anywhere so I might as well optimize.
Amazon isn't much of a monopoly. Certainly not in retail. The closest place is eReaders and eBooks but it never played dirty to get there, just smart. They're hardly invincible but the rest of the market wants to continue how it's always been and that's simply not going to work anymore.
Books are in a tough situation by the nature of the digital age. Eventually books will be antiques that people collect while they read everything digitally
benjipwns
Banned
I can understand the points of the article. Powerful players like Walmart and amazon can dictate to the corporations that make products they sell. That can lead to bad things.
But they are powerful not because they are eliminating competition, but because they do everything better than the competition. And the consumers love them.
But they are powerful not because they are eliminating competition, but because they do everything better than the competition. And the consumers love them.
EatinOlives
Member
Telecom industry?
Well, I guess that doesn't qualify since you're specifying "threaten". Telecom giants are far beyond the point of "threaten" and into "completely obliterated and built an impenetrable fortress in its place".
EDIT: And you're talking about books. The book industry in general is in a massive decline due to the rise of the internet and eBooks. Let's not pretend that industry would've been fine and dandy had it not been for Amazon.
I hear ya. I went to a Barnes and Noble the other day to buy a book that cost $30 in store. I saw it online for $15 on their own website. The lady wouldn't price match because she said and I quote: "It's the convenience of being able to buy it and have it instantly instead of having to wait for shipping". The book was in bad shape too, worn from many people reading it then putting it back on the shelf.
I too put the book on the shelf, then went to Amazon and bought it for $15 with free two day shipping. Sorry lady, but I don't think a $15 "convenience fee" is going to convince very many people.
doesnt seem like anyone in the thread actually read the article.
Diapers and zappos are examples of using power to eliminate the competition before they have a chance to 'do anything better' or if they are in danger of doing so.
This is precisely what the article explores about the new face of monopolies. We're all happily complicit because we benefit as consumers, so we ignore potential long term damage being done behind the scenes.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
There are FAR worse monopolies than Amazon, that are actually highly destructive and don't have many benefits to the market at all (competition, etc.).
I don't blame them. It's poorly written and nonsensical.
We have to stop Amazon before it's too late! They keep expanding into new sectors!
Nevermind the monopolies that already exist. He even talks about AT&T (the OLD AT&T) without mentioning the current telecoms and cable companies. It's tone deaf.
And those companies are consistently the worst in customer service, while Amazon is consistently one of the best. How about we focus on the currently shitty companies rather than the good ones that may or may not someday join their ranks?
EatinOlives
Member
This. The article meanders and takes way too long to say "it's getting too big and rich, and history has shown that big and rich companies do shitty things".
Undoubtedly Amazon has been caught red handed doing some extremely shady business practices. They should obviously be curtailed where regulation is necessary, particularly in the warehouse labor sector, but peddling this general idea of fear because "it's too big! It's bound to destroy something!!!" isn't particularly insightful or productive.
There are a lot of other companies (like the biggest players in the telecom industry) that are doing actual, real, and deep damage to the economy and hindering the nation in numerous ways. That needs our attention first, IMO.
I did, but what specifically can the government hound Amazon about? Enforcing state tax seems like an easy one. I'd love to see them try to improve employee treatment (with Walmart too) and maybe that would naturally raise prices, but I don't see the conservative side of the government pursuing that.
don't you wish you were cool like them?
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Important quote from this article, since the whole idea is that the threat is being redefined. We're kind of back in the wild west as far as dealing with new juggernauts is concerned.TNR.com said:
benjipwns
Banned
Set prices too low, it's predatory.
Set prices too high, it's gouging.
Set prices the same, it's collusion.
Slackbladder
Member
Amazon should pay its fucking tax bill first.
Yeah it's a bummer especially when you are there to add it to your cart, but you pass whatever hour mark makes it to the next-next day and it gets the boot after you place your order lol.
But I work from home 2 days a week so it's pretty easy to plan out; or rather my wife usually remembers to think about it so we have a nice lunch together while I'm working.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Which is always the inherent danger in a monopoly. The power disparity doesn't mean that you're able to crush someone with a better product or service right when they're getting started, it means you're able to either crush or acquire them before they have the chance to develop the better product or service
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's neither, even if you disagree with the argument, but what is actually nonsensical is defending people not reading the article they're commenting on on the basis that they may have preternaturally realized that it would be nonsensical without having read it. Part of being able to authoritatively say an argument makes no sense is having to read it to be sure, rather than dismissing it conceptually because it sounds dumb in thread title form.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Honestly, I actually like going out and buying things in person, the main reason why I like shopping on Amazon is because I can see such a variety side by side. It would be incredibly ambitious but also very awesome if someone could build a system that would collate all of the stocking data from stores around you, big box and maybe even small businesses, so that you could check who has what in stock compared to everyone else and then go out and get what you need
benjipwns
Banned
I think this post is pretty nonsensical, but I haven't read it yet.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The more I think about it the more I realize that the main reason I use Amazon is because I don't know of a way to easily check if an item is in stock at a store near me, without manually checking every individual chain's database. Has anyone ever built a thing like that?
ersocaster
Member
The problem with monopolies is that they hinder innovation. I do not see Amazon as doing that. In fact, if anything, they are actively at the forefront of innovation even though they have no need to be.
benjipwns
Banned
It'd have to hit all their databases or something no?
And I've always found those to be spotty. Like Staples saying "oh yeah, we've got eight of them left" at my nearby store and then having none and telling me the product is actually only available online.
The Faceless Master
Member
DeBeers and Diamonds?
Okay but just because they're doing that now doesn't mean they'll do it forever, and the bigger they get, the less consumers will be able to do about it when they stop.
True to form Amazon does it better: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...ing-new-crowdsourcing-publishing-program.html
Aurean_Mentat
Member
Honestly, I did read the article.
In this digital age, Amazon gets that the most valuable currency is goodwill (totally been meaning to do a thread about that at some point). As Amazon is an online only business, they get that the consumer experience is king. There are famous stories about how at every Amazon meeting, there's an empty chair to represent the consumer. That kind of focus shows. For every bad story about Amazon customer service, I could recite 10 or more extremely positive ones, where Amazon went out of their way to have my back.
Most brick and mortar retail places charge higher prices, have crappier service in general, and expect me to shop there to support the local economy. If I, as a consumer, have no incentive to shop at Best Buy or Gamestop (which I really don't want to do), why should I do so? I have had problems with stuff I've bought there in the past, and told to go pound sand on multiple occasions. Amazon does just about everything they can to help me out and make me a happy customer.
As far as I'm concerned, bring on more Amazon. In terms of monopolies that I should be concerned about, they are far, far, far down on the list. All of the telecom companies holding back U.S. infrastructure come first, and there are so many more before Amazon that I'm not really concerned about it.
In this digital age, Amazon gets that the most valuable currency is goodwill (totally been meaning to do a thread about that at some point). As Amazon is an online only business, they get that the consumer experience is king. There are famous stories about how at every Amazon meeting, there's an empty chair to represent the consumer. That kind of focus shows. For every bad story about Amazon customer service, I could recite 10 or more extremely positive ones, where Amazon went out of their way to have my back.
Most brick and mortar retail places charge higher prices, have crappier service in general, and expect me to shop there to support the local economy. If I, as a consumer, have no incentive to shop at Best Buy or Gamestop (which I really don't want to do), why should I do so? I have had problems with stuff I've bought there in the past, and told to go pound sand on multiple occasions. Amazon does just about everything they can to help me out and make me a happy customer.
As far as I'm concerned, bring on more Amazon. In terms of monopolies that I should be concerned about, they are far, far, far down on the list. All of the telecom companies holding back U.S. infrastructure come first, and there are so many more before Amazon that I'm not really concerned about it.
meh, its 2am, i got off work an hour ago. i can shop at amazon or i can shop at..mm...oh yeah, no one else fucking caters to 2nd shift workers.
so if other stores want my business, be open now and offer the same prices. also that 3% cash back has gotten me 600+ bucks over the years in free money.
it's like the god damn cable companies. they don't want to change their ways so they just bitch and moan until they can pay off some congressmen and get the laws change. best buy has gotten a bit better in that they will match prices(ymmv from what I hear).
my loyalty lies with whoever offers me the best prices+convenience. also, amazon's customer service is hands down the best I've ever seen. I accidently ordered the wrong size pants once. sent them an email at like 3am. within 30 minutes they had given me the correct size and told me to just return the other pair within 30 days so I won't be charged. easy, peasy.
I think they've earned their rep at being one of the best places to buy from.
so if other stores want my business, be open now and offer the same prices. also that 3% cash back has gotten me 600+ bucks over the years in free money.
it's like the god damn cable companies. they don't want to change their ways so they just bitch and moan until they can pay off some congressmen and get the laws change. best buy has gotten a bit better in that they will match prices(ymmv from what I hear).
my loyalty lies with whoever offers me the best prices+convenience. also, amazon's customer service is hands down the best I've ever seen. I accidently ordered the wrong size pants once. sent them an email at like 3am. within 30 minutes they had given me the correct size and told me to just return the other pair within 30 days so I won't be charged. easy, peasy.
I think they've earned their rep at being one of the best places to buy from.
Fox Mulder
Member
Places like Best Buy and Barnes and Noble lack the infrastructure and have the additional burden of retail stores. They're forced to price match Amazon, but have costs that Amazon doesn't have. Amazon getting around sales tax was nice and all, but unfair. Amazon is great and all, but they've also built up goodwill with cheap prices and great customer support, which gives them cover for the sleazy shit they do.
The death of video stores and pathetic selection at walmart or bestbuy means I have to buy movies off amazon. I'd like to support local stores or whatever, but those don't even exist anymore and big retailers cant beat the selection, service, price, and convenience of amazon.
Boss Mog
Member
I used to be a big Amazon shopper but I haven't bought anything from them in 2014. I guess the main reason is that they started charging tax in my state. The main reason I shopped there was basically that it cost less due to no tax, particularly on big ticket items like TVs and such. They also raised the minimum purchase price for free shipping to $35 for non-Prime member and also raised Prime to a100 bucks.
And they still refuse to offer any kind of monthly option for Prime. If they did I might consider dumping Netflix and go with them but there's no way I'm gonna commit to a year. In a year a lot can happen.
Their customer service though, has always been by far the best of any retailer, be it online or brick and mortar. So I still hold them in high regard for that and I'll probably end up getting some of their Black Friday gaming deals especially if they offer me another Prime trial like they've been doing every November for the last couple of years.
And they still refuse to offer any kind of monthly option for Prime. If they did I might consider dumping Netflix and go with them but there's no way I'm gonna commit to a year. In a year a lot can happen.
Their customer service though, has always been by far the best of any retailer, be it online or brick and mortar. So I still hold them in high regard for that and I'll probably end up getting some of their Black Friday gaming deals especially if they offer me another Prime trial like they've been doing every November for the last couple of years.
Freezasaurus
Member
I think B&N is still in bad shape from the Nook disaster. They lost a shit-ton of money on that one and their last CEO had to resign.
Pretty cool.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Oh God, I hate PayPal. I have had nothing but trouble with them, and there's no alternative most of the time. What an example of a terrible monopoly.
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