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[Panajev2001a]

My reasoning ?

$29.99 for Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Hyper Street Fighter 2 and a feature lenght Street Fighter 2 Anime is a great deal, just like the Mega Man Anniversary Collection was.

In the meantime, I feel bad as in the rest of the world people are paying up to more than double and in cases getting each game separately (see Europe and the Hyper Street Fighter/Street Fighter 3: Third Strike situation).

SCEA again does not seem to hurt consumers.

 

[Soul4ger]

My reasoning ?

$29.99 for Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Hyper Street Fighter 2 and a feature lenght Street Fighter 2 Anime is a great deal, just like the Mega Man Anniversary Collection was.

In the meantime, I feel bad as in the rest of the world people are paying up to more than double and in cases getting each game separately (see Europe and the Hyper Street Fighter/Street Fighter 3: Third Strike situation).

SCEA again does not seem to hurt consumers.

Not to mention Japan, where you have to but the Mega Man games separately (for PSone), and the wretched arcade Mega Man games on a pricey PS2 disc. Yowza! I can't believe people gave these collections sevens and eights. NO, I WON'T LET IT GO.

 

[jarrod]

SCEA again does not seem to hurt consumers.

Well, except those who like SNK.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well, except those who like SNK.

Last I checked SNK in the U.S. was bundling Samurai Showdown with another game and bundled the King of Fighters games together and released them at reduced price.

Do you mean the "metal Slug fans" who would like SNK to release a single title at $49.99 although it is probably worth $29.99 or less nowadays (well, to me... I would buy it, but not at full price and I'd prefer they bundled older Metal Slug games to sweeten the deal) ?

 

[MoxManiac]

Metal Slug 3 is worth more than 4 and 5 combined, so if that 4 and 5 double pack is a gof for PS2, we're still getting screwed.

 

[Defensor]

And the Street Fighter AC collection works on the HDLoader for zippy load times

 

[Panajev2001a]

Metal Slug 3 is worth more than 4 and 5 combined, so if that 4 and 5 double pack is a gof for PS2, we're still getting screwed.

Then bundle all three of them for $39.99: I'd get that.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Last I checked SNK in the U.S. was bundling Samurai Showdown with another game and bundled the King of Fighters games together and released them at reduced price.

Do you mean the "metal Slug fans" who would like SNK to release a single title at $49.99 although it is probably worth $29.99 or less nowadays (well, to me... I would buy it, but not at full price and I'd prefer they bundled older Metal Slug games to sweeten the deal) ?

They are also doing a 2002/2003 bundle pack.

 

[jarrod]

Last I checked SNK in the U.S. was bundling Samurai Showdown with another game and bundled the King of Fighters games together and released them at reduced price.

Do you mean the "metal Slug fans" who would like SNK to release a single title at $49.99 although it is probably worth $29.99 or less nowadays (well, to me... I would buy it, but not at full price and I'd prefer they bundled older Metal Slug games to sweeten the deal) ?

Regardless, SCEA is still using their position to limit publishers and as a result they limit options. Sometimes publishers go further and we get a nice bundle deal (SFAC, Growlanser Gens, etc), sometimes we missout compltely (Metal Slug, SVC Chaos, Broken Sword 3, etc).

SCEA's let more archaic looking/playing games slip by than Metal Slug 3 however, and even at full price. :/

 

[jarrod]

Then bundle all three of them for $39.99: I'd get that.

Why bother when MS3 sells 40k on XBox for $39 alone? Strange that MS4/5 have suddenly dropped off the PS2 release lists though, as it should follow a similar bundle incentive to slip by SCEA... I wonder how SCEA will react to SNK's AtomisWave games?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Regardless, SCEA is still using their position to limit publishers and as a result they limit options. Sometimes publishers go further and we get a nice bundle deal (SFAC, Growlanser Gens, etc), sometimes we missout compltely (Metal Slug, SVC Chaos, Broken Sword 3, etc).

The problem lies in the publisher too, the bundles are possible and not every publisher can afford to pull a Nintendo NES Classic kind of deal.

SCEA's let more archaic looking/playing games slip by than Metal Slug 3 however, and even at full price. :/

Nobody is perfect .

 

[jarrod]

The problem lies in the publisher too, the bundles are possible and not every publisher can afford to pull a Nintendo NES Classic kind of deal.

But there's a proven market for Metal Slug, it selling better on XBox than the KOF bundle has on PS2... SCEA shouldn't be making decisions for consumers, let the market sort it out (like Nintendo does).

 

[Panajev2001a]

I am sorry, but the amount of sweet deals SCEA's decisions have generated for me outweigh the fact that I'd like Metal Slug 3 to be released for PlayStation 2 as well (SCEA do not become too draconian though): SNK, make a nice bundle.

 

[jarrod]

I am sorry, but the amount of sweet deals SCEA's decisions have generated for me outweigh the fact that I'd like Metal Slug 3 to be released for PlayStation 2 as well (SCEA do not become too draconian though):

What all two of them? That outweights all the games we won't get and publisher headaches?

SNK, make a nice bundle.

They did for MS4/5... but that's not getting a PS2 release now either it seems. :/

 

[Panajev2001a]

What all two of them? That outweights all the games we won't get and publisher headaches?

All the games we won't get ?

You are extending in the future the games we will not get, you make it seem like SCEA's policy will result in tons of canned games and very few bundles.

I do not see it this way.

Oh and you also forgot about Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution which in Europe shipped at full price.

 

[Solid]

I love Collections! More of those please!

 

[jarrod]

you make it seem like SCEA's policy will result in tons of canned games and very few bundles.

Well it has so far... want a list.

Oh and you also forgot about Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution which in Europe shipped at full price.

Starngely though, GGX2 was allowed through at full price. As are most sports games annually. :/

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well it has so far... want a list.

Yes and with some links and quotes not just hearsay.

Starngely though, GGX2 was allowed through at full price. As are most sports games annually. :/

How much of an upgrade in terms of gameplay and new characters was GGX2 compared to GGX1 ?

 

[ypo]

"Yes and with some links and quotes not just hearsay"

Have fun waiting.


Anyway, kids are used to paying for overpriced crap, I mean it's not their money after all. $20 for a 20-year old game. $100 for GBA SP1. Yeesh.

 

[jarrod]

Yes and with some links and quotes not just hearsay.

Well, Ys I&II, Metal Slug 3, Mystical Ninja, SVC Chaos & all of DreamCatcher's PS2 games are the only ones confirmable via quotes from company reps I believe... meanwhile Grownslanser Generation s is the only confirmed bundle using the same standards.

You can probably dig up Ben Herman & Vic Ireland's rections pretty easily. The pesident of NEC Interchannel revealed the Ys stuff in an Insert Credit interview iirc... but wanted everything off the record. Which brings us to the problem here, publishers are more or less afraid to "speak out" against SCEA for fear of reprisal. It's like 1980s Nintendo all over again...

How much of an upgrade in terms of gameplay and new characters was GGX2 compared to GGX1 ?

How about I put it this way, VF4 Evo had enough new content to warrant a full sequel for the VF franchise. Only a leap in visuals was needed and Sega could've called it VF5.

Anyway, kids are used to paying for overpriced crap, I mean it's not their money after all. $20 for a 20-year old game. $100 for GBA SP1. Yeesh.

Good effort, but this kid won't bite.

 

[ypo]

Well that's good of you to let me know. Still waiting for them confirmations for that big list you had. Stop wasting time typing nonsense. Get to it!

 

[Kumiko Nikaido]

Strange that MS4/5 have suddenly dropped off the PS2 release lists though, as it should follow a similar bundle incentive to slip by SCEA... I wonder how SCEA will react to SNK's AtomisWave games?

There will be no Metal Slug 4/5 lovin' for either system this year.

Both the PS2 and Xbox versions of the Metal Slug 4/5 Combo Pack have been pushed back to a "tentative" April 16th, 2005 release date.

 

[ypo]

OMG, Sony cancelled a Xbox game!!!

 

[Riskbreaker]

They did for MS4/5... but that's not getting a PS2 release now either it seems. :/

Are you sure of this? ebgames still has it listed as a PS2/Xbox release.

 

[jarrod]

Well that's good of you to let me know. Still waiting for them confirmations for that big list you had. Stop wasting time typing nonsense. Get to it!

You're not worth the effort... I gave specific names and sites, if you want them that bad you can google them for yourself.

Also, I'd like to extend the same standard. Can you (or Pana) prove these bundles and budget releases are the result of SCEA approval process? With specific references to the people/sites that confirmed it?

edit-Aw hell, here's the Ys confirmation...

Here's something nice and depressing for you. I mentioned Ys Perfect Edition, since it's coming to PS2 in Japan. Any chance of a US release? Quite an exhasterbated look came across Evangelista's face. "No" he said. And not by his own design. The game was denied by SCEA. We were so close to having a good translation of Ys for PS2. He says they'll try again, so keep your fingers crossed. I can't say where I got the info, but I think I know why the game was rejected. Due to the huge influx of titles, Sony is trying to keep a handle on things, to keep profit margins up. Thus they have put a '30% greater emphasis on graphics'. That's the word on the street.

But hell, if you ask me, the graphics in Ys Perfect Edition are superb. Frustrating. But either way, it seems as though NEC has a relationship with digicube, which could translate to some interesting titles making their way over here.

http://www.insertcredit.com/news/e3_2003/nec/

...off the cuff stuff like that is the most confirmation you'll get where SCEA Product Approval is involved. Here's another reference from Gamespot...

As for SNK NeoGeo USA Consumer Corporation (man, that's a lengthy name)--company president Ben Herman was proud to announce the impending release of the King of Fighters 2000/2001 double pack for the PlayStation 2, as well as the intention to release home versions of Metal Slug 3 and SVC Chaos later on. The King of Fighters 2000/2001 pack is out now, but Metal Slug 3 has met with resistance from Sony Computer Entertainment America's concept approval department. SCEA has a long history of denying licenses on 2D-based games. Goemon, Dodonpachi, and Soul Hackers are but a few of the many games denied a US release by the company's approval department, despite the fact that these and the majority of other rejected titles were released in Japan without incident.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6089278/p-23.html

...most of Vic Ireland's quotes are on the WD message board. Ben Herman's should be out there also, happy hunting.

 

[ypo]

So you are talking out your ass, figures.

"Also, I'd like to extend the same standard. Can you (or Pana) prove these bundles and budget releases are the result of SCEA approval process?"

Consider the fact that I'm not making claims either way, I don't think so.

 

[BuddyC]

You're not worth the effort... I gave specific names and sites, if you want them that bad you can google them for yourself.

Also, I'd like to extend the same standard. Can you (or Pana) prove these bundles and budget releases are the result of SCEA approval process? With specific references to the people/sites that confirmed it?

Shifting the burden of proof? Are you mad?

Oh ho ho, followed up by an ad hominem by ypo, real smooth there!

 

[jarrod]

So you are talking out your ass, figures.

Whoops... there's more than one ass here.

Consider the fact that I'm not making claims either way, I don't think so.

Then why are you even bothering with the discussion. Hive mind?

 

[jarrod]

Here's another quote from SNK exec Koyama on the SCEA matter...

Moving on to recent difficulties with the submissions process at Sony Computer Entertainment America, Koyama-san let the firm’s frustration with recent events be known. As regular readers of SPOnG will know, SNK’s US offering, headed up by the infamous Ben Herman, has had some difficulties in its attempts to get games already on open sale in Japan accepted as stand-alone PlayStation 2 releases. “Sony just isn’t interested in 2D games anymore – whatever it might be,” exclaimed Koyama-san. “And yet many games, as long as they are in 3D, trickle through all the time. It’s a crazy situation and we don’t believe it reflects the needs of game consumers."

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=7095

...really, it's surprisingly easy to find this stuff. I thought I'd have to go hunting through irc...

 

[Riskbreaker]

I wonder how SCEA will react to SNK's AtomisWave games?

I believe Sony is really gung-ho with regards to the AtomisWave. I remember reading an interview with Ben Herman in which he stated that Sony allowed the KoF/ MS bundle packs if future ports of AtomisWave games would make it to the PS2. I'll try to find the link..

 

[jarrod]

I believe Sony is really gung-ho with regards to the AtomisWave. I remember reading an interview with Ben Herman in which he stated that Sony allowed the KoF/ MS bundle packs if future ports of AtomisWave games would make it to the PS2. I'll try to find the link..

Well that's a step in the right direction. Hopefully we'll get PSP versions also.

 

[ypo]

Hey, not my fault that you decided to edit your post after I typed up my reply.

"Then why are you even bothering with the discussion. Hive mind?"

Asking for proof to your claim. Obvoiusly you were referring to the big list you had in the old thread. Still a long way to go down the list.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"ere's another quote from SNK exec Koyama on the SCEA matter..."

That guys anger rant is hilarious. The whole "No 2D, Yes 3D" comment has been proven false so many times now.

 

[Riskbreaker]

This is what Ben Herman had to say about Sony's 2-D policy:

"Then we addressed the rumor that Sony had forced the company into making pack-ins for their 2D titles. Ben reminded us that pack-ins were indeed his plan all along (as he said in the last interview), but acknowledged that Sony was definitely more receptive to the pack-in idea than the single package. SvC Chaos and Metal Slug 3 stand alone discs were not approved, for instance. But he was quick to defend Sony, saying that their standards are very high. According to Ben they’re not just about “2D=bad”, they’re also very concerned about games bringing a ‘new experience’ to the system. One wonders how the droves of generic 3D action slashers make it on there, but that’s a different story."


Regarding the AtomisWave:

"But Ben says he was able to convince them that content and gameplay can be defining factors in a game’s success. A good way to go, I think. The Atomiswave announcement also helped to strengthen Sony’s confidence in SNK, because of the new arcade market, and because of Sammy’s connection with Sega.

As a side note, Ben says he thinks that we will start seeing the Sega name in conjunction with a lot more Sammy titles in the future. He also mentioned that while the Atomiswave is a great platform, there is a lot of room to beef them up when porting to consoles (sighting Guilty Gear Isuka as an example, graphically and content-wise).

Of course – the fact that SNK made a PS2 exclusive title didn’t hurt either. "


The PSP Factor:

"Looking towards the new consoles, Ben likes both the DS and the PSP – but doesn’t see a way to implement anything useful on the DS just yet. He sees more potential for SNK games on the PSP, but can’t announce anything in particular. So for now, they’ll be focused on the GBA for the handheld arena. Oh, and I got one fanboy question in here – no Card Fighters Clash planned at the moment. Damn."


BEN GIVE ME METAL SLUG ADVANCE NOW...AND DON'T CENSOR KoF PLEASE

http://www.insertcredit.com/news/e3_2004/snk/snk_interview.html

 

[jarrod]

Hey, not my fault that you decided to edit your post after I typed up my reply.

The first edit came in before your response.

Asking for proof to your claim. Obvoiusly you were referring to the big list you had in the old thread. Still a long way to go down the list.

Obviously, you're grasping here... I brought quotes, it's actually happening, SCEA sucks, deal with it.

 

[Lyte Edge]

And the Street Fighter AC collection works on the HDLoader for zippy load times

I don't see how you can make them load any faster than normal....it's already fast enough to the point that load times are total non-issue.

The collection is a great deal (I'll be getting the Xbox version myself), but I got the Japanese Hyper Street Fighter II for the PS2 last DECEMBER, plus it has the Japanese dub/music for the SF anime movie, and with Third Strike, well, I couldn't pass this up...:

 

[sonycowboy]

Obviously, you're grasping here... I brought quotes, it's actually happening, SCEA sucks, deal with it.

Jarrod,

What's the deal today? Somebody shoot your dog? You can argue that SCEA has an agenda, but you can't argue that it's worked for them. And to say they suck? Ridiculous.

The group that probably has the single biggest gripe against SCEA is SCEE

 

[Panajev2001a]

SCEA sucks, deal with it.

No, they do not suck.

 

[ypo]

"The first edit came in before your response."

See the post below me? He quoted your whole post. I posted before him, do the math.


"Obviously, you're grasping here... I brought quotes, it's actually happening,"

Funny, so what *list* were you referring to? Why don't you show us the list. Yes Sony has rejected games but not to the extend of what you're bitching about. Big whoop that Sony rejected a few games, it's par for the industry. Let us see this list of yours.

 

[Defensor]

I don't see how you can make them load any faster than normal....it's already fast enough to the point that load times are total non-issue.

Well, I mean zippy load times from after you choose 3rd strike or Hyper Street fighter at the menu

 

[jarrod]

You can argue that SCEA has an agenda, but you can't argue that it's worked for them.

Well sure, but "worked for them" for how long. Nintendo's iron fisted NES policies worked really well their day also.

And to say they suck? Ridiculous.

They do suck. Sucky suck suck. They discredit SCEI's good name.

The group that probably has the single biggest gripe against SCEA is SCEE

The lack of cohesion and abundance of overlap in SCEI's divisions is another whole can of worms. At least SCEA doesn't stop SCEE's games from coming over (even if they don't bother themselves). :/

"The first edit came in before your response."

See the post below me? He quoted your whole post. I posted before him, do the math.

His response followed the first edit as well. You were both still writing resonses after I'd my 1st edit showed up. Whjen one quotes something isn't when their post shows up, do the logic.

"Obviously, you're grasping here... I brought quotes, it's actually happening,"

Funny, so what *list* were you referring to? Why don't you show us the list. Yes Sony has rejected games but not to the extend of what you're bitching about. Big whoop that Sony rejected a few games, it's par for the industry. Let us see this list of yours.

No specific list, I was asking Pana if he'd like one. Then I responded with Ys I&II, Metal Slug 3, Mystical Ninja, SVC Chaos & all of DreamCatcher's PS2 games... most of which I brought quotes confirming or referencing.

And "par for the industry" evidently doesn't include Nintendo or Microsoft, unless you can prove they've blocked games this gen?

 

[ypo]

"Whjen one quotes something isn't when their post shows up, do the logic."

Hey say what you want, but if you did fine. The fact is it wasn't there when I responded. Happy now?

"No specific list, I was asking Pana if he'd like one. Then I responded with Ys I&II, Metal Slug 3, Mystical Ninja, SVC Chaos & all of DreamCatcher's PS2 games... most of which I brought quotes confirming or referencing."


Hahah, you call that a list? A list that's enough for you to make such hyperboles? So I guess that means you're not standing behind that huge list you made? Good.

"And "par for the industry" evidently doesn't include Nintendo or Microsoft, unless you can prove they've blocked games this gen?"

Damn you are naive. You really believe no games were rejected from either system? The lack of porn games is a first good indication.

 

[cvxfreak]

In the meantime, I feel bad as in the rest of the world people are paying up to more than double and in cases getting each game separately (see Europe and the Hyper Street Fighter/Street Fighter 3: Third Strike situation).

SCEA again does not seem to hurt consumers.

I agree, Capcom should have been more consistent with both this and MMAC. I think a GameCube Rockman Anniversary Collection will be released, but a PS2 version doesn't seem likely. I think this, as SFAC will be released for Xbox in Japan.

 

[jarrod]

Hahah, you call that a list? A list that's enough for you to make such hyperboles? So I guess that means you're not standing behind that huge list you made? Good.

It's the only list I've referenced in this thread... one that's concrete. That's what Pana asked for, anything else you're thinking of is your own misunderstanding.

Damn you are naive. You really believe no games were rejected from either system? The lack of porn games is a first good indication.

I dunno, maybe they have... but before I can take your word for it, I'll need direct quotes and links. Otherwise you must be "talking out your ass, figures."

 

[ypo]

Heh, at least I didn't state it as a fact. So don't take my words for it, I don't care. I said it's a good indication. So no proof from me, just some common sense. Common sense would've suggested that with such a huge userbase on these systems, the adult industry would at least want a piece of it. It's OK if you lack common sense though. It's understandable


edit:

"you make it seem like SCEA's policy will result in tons of canned games and very few bundles."

"Well it has so far... want a list."

Heh, right, that few games was your response to his "will result in tons of canned games and very few bundles " comment. Right, I believe you. So where's that list of "tons of canned games" that you responded with "it has so far"?

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Well sure, but "worked for them" for how long. Nintendo's iron fisted NES policies worked really well their day also."

Comparing Nintendo's censoring of mainstream popular game, to Sony's censoring/canning of niche game just doesn't work well.

 

[kevm3]

How do you watch the movie or is that something you have to unlock? I just don't see it anywhere.

 

[Defensor]

How do you watch the movie or is that something you have to unlock? I just don't see it anywhere.

Go to Hyper Street Fighter and its in the gallery mode. Skip each chapter with L1 and R1.

 

[kevm3]

Ah sweet! Thanks!

 

[jarrod]

Heh, at least I didn't state it as a fact. So don't take my words for it, I don't care. I said it's a good indication. So no proof from me, just some common sense. Common sense would've suggested that with such a huge userbase on these systems, the adult industry would at least want a piece of it. It's OK if you lack common sense though. It's understandable

So... talking out your ass it is. Figures.

Heh, right, that few games was your response to his "will result in tons of canned games and very few bundles " comment. Right, I believe you. So where's that list of "tons of canned games" that you responded with "it has so far"?

I listed all the confirmed blocks (all of DreamCatcher's US games also, SCEA revoked their PS2 license even over some dispute) but there's plenty more rumored (Gregory Horror Show, Bomberman Jetters, Puyo Pop, etc)... by extension, could I get of a list of forced SCEA bundles? Even a few of them, confirmed?

"Well sure, but "worked for them" for how long. Nintendo's iron fisted NES policies worked really well their day also."

Comparing Nintendo's censoring of mainstream popular game, to Sony's censoring/canning of niche game just doesn't work well.

Yeah, you're right. At least Nintendo had consitantcy and set standards... SCEA's just an erratic, nonsensical tyrant of a market leader.