-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tomb Raider 1-3 Remastered Includes Racial and Ethnic Stereotypes Warning From Crystal Dynamics
delfrickintree
Banned
look how much you dont care! wow you changed my mindNah, I'm good. I don't need to reread anything. I still firmly believe it's nothing more than that. Whether it be an idea from their legal team or otherwise, who knows. Regardless, I just don't think it's that big of a deal personally. It's literally there for a few seconds on boot and then it's gone. If it bothers anyone that much they can remove it via the command line.
MiguelItUp
Member
I wasn't attempting to, I was just adding what I realistically think happened here. Not really going out of the way, it's just posting on a forum, not a big deal at all, lol. Not sure why y'all are getting so sassy.
Last edited:
delfrickintree
Banned
im naturally sassy but i dont like being lectured by the invasive Message Crew. wanna throw down?
Eimran
Member
The best outcome is if they just stop with the hypocritical pandering and just went to the game.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
From The Nathan Drake Collection, yeah.They pulled fat Drake?? That was my favorite skin to play the game with.
Probably because there is a white dude in cargo shorts, ridding a skateboard, with 2 uzis. Very stereotypical representation of a white dude in the 90s. All that's missing is a Limp Bizkit t-shirt.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
What in the actual fuck is this? We need trigger warnings for a video game now? Am I going to have to watch a black screen soon before any killing in video games, any long lost tribe that I don’t give a shit about getting treasure taken by a FAKE DIGITAL treasure hunter?
The whole purpose of video games or media in general is to surprise the audience and let them articulate what they want from said program or game.
I can only imagine a movie being stopped every 5 minutes to see trigger warning on everything. How absolutely pathetic and embarrassing to be someone that needs trigger warnings. Everyone has made it through history without this idiocy, but here we are.
I couldn’t imagine going around with my PTSD and needing to see trigger warnings for everything I watch. Then to be told by a bunch of morons making the game that we want to make money but you need to realize that a video game can hurt peoples feelings . Hell no.
The whole purpose of video games or media in general is to surprise the audience and let them articulate what they want from said program or game.
I can only imagine a movie being stopped every 5 minutes to see trigger warning on everything. How absolutely pathetic and embarrassing to be someone that needs trigger warnings. Everyone has made it through history without this idiocy, but here we are.
I couldn’t imagine going around with my PTSD and needing to see trigger warnings for everything I watch. Then to be told by a bunch of morons making the game that we want to make money but you need to realize that a video game can hurt peoples feelings . Hell no.
delfrickintree
Banned
FunkMiller
Gold Member
“We are jealous that these games are much better than ours, so we’re going to passive aggressively do the only thing we can to bring them down”.
Human psychology, boys. Human psychology.
Human psychology, boys. Human psychology.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
You’re quite welcome. It happens when dipshits defend idiocracy, like this.
Also, unless you have a 5th grade education, it was pretty easy to understand. We don’t need trigger warnings. There, the KISS method for you. Keep It Simple Stupid.
Last edited:
delfrickintree
Banned
another non-thread reader. its like shooting fish in a barrel
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Are you saying people aren’t just saying it’s ok? Just because they didn’t change anything?
Folks are saying it isn’t a big deal, it is. It starts the same way every time then we actually start having censorship everywhere. You let one foot in the door and they will step in.
If you think it is ok, that is your opinion and I clearly stated how I feel about that.
If I am misunderstanding, please inform me of what I am missing here?
Last edited:
John Bilbo
Member
Don't you dare. That barrel was expensive!
Rhazer Fusion
Member
It’s really silly imo, but I rather have this than censorship or them changing the game for the “sensitive” people out there. Wait, it wasn’t censored, was it?
So you haven't read the thread then? Or you're young and don't remember how we actually had censored stuff first.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
No, not young, over 40. I read the thread and having trigger warnings for fictional characters and media is ridiculous. We have fought censorship since I was young in the 80s. Trigger warnings will just lead to censorship through the guise of helping those that are told they have anxiety and it’s ok to be triggered and microagressed.
Having trigger warnings will lead to more and then to more censorship. Please expound on why you think I’m not understanding here?
What exactly was censored in fantasy here in the US? I guess I don’t remember reading To Kill A Mockingbird with a trigger warning at the beginning, or any other book for that matter.
When you flag a book or media you are taking a complex issue and isolating it to that one variable inside the whole equation. It can also be used to gate keep and lessen the chances that the media is seen, or read about.
We have survived throughout history with these things and there are already systems in
Place for age groups with rating systems.
Now, if you would be so kind to explain this thread to me, please.
Last edited:
Because before this, games being re-released were already censored, cut or edited, it's only a recent trend that re-release are being put out without anything removed or changed and instead opting for a disclaimer. Need I remind you that the best selling re-release of recent years, the terrible ports of the GTA Trilogy, were heavily censored and cut/edited and that was just the other year! The Uncharted Collection removed the "Donut Drake" skin because they thought it was fatphobic and there's plenty of other examples of re-release already being censored for "modern standards". So fearmongering that somehow having a disclaimer whilst leaving the games uncut and uncensored is somehow going to lead to games being censored is just laughable because you've missed the boat on that one my friend!
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Welcome to Neogaf, I love you.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
A few games self censoring does not negate the fact that these warnings are not needed. You’re using a couple examples to say that we have always had censorship and this is so much better. There has always those who try to censor, that is why many speak out about it.
However, trigger warnings will lead to other entities getting involved and it will evolve into further censorship of games being made in the future and games that have been made in the past. Just like they want to do to kill a mockingbird and take out the language, just like Huck Finn, and many more because it can trigger someone who is still apparently alive from a few hundred years ago.
You can have your opinion and that is perfectly fine if you’re ok with the trigger warnings. I’m not going to back down and be happy that they left the game, but wrote that it hurts peoples feelings. It doesn’t need to be there.
Edit: sorry not good with technology. This was a reply to YCoCg.
However, trigger warnings will lead to other entities getting involved and it will evolve into further censorship of games being made in the future and games that have been made in the past. Just like they want to do to kill a mockingbird and take out the language, just like Huck Finn, and many more because it can trigger someone who is still apparently alive from a few hundred years ago.
You can have your opinion and that is perfectly fine if you’re ok with the trigger warnings. I’m not going to back down and be happy that they left the game, but wrote that it hurts peoples feelings. It doesn’t need to be there.
Edit: sorry not good with technology. This was a reply to YCoCg.
Last edited:
delfrickintree
Banned
listen here my dude. i have mixed race daughters and i don't need them galavanting around the globe with stereotypical bimbo athletics and harrassing perfect native cultures. deal with it or dont buy our gane
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Yes sir!
Shake Your Rump
Gold Member
Anyone have an example of these “deeply harmful” stereotypes? Because I just played through the PS1 games a few years ago and didn’t see anything remotely like this.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
I have the example. Some dude in a room decided that his activist teacher of revisionist history was right all along and fantasy characters are problematic.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
It's probably this
I mean they have a point and it's not the first time either, look how Core Design depicted ancient white people
Straight up racists
Last edited:
So we pretty much go in a circle again of getting games censored, until some get put out uncensored and uncut, and then they'll come with disclaimers again, cycle continues. I'm not saying I WANT these warnings, but I will happily accept them if the alternative is what they've done in the past and just censor/cut content because THEY'VE decided it's too offensive for people today.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
You accept them then and I will tell you it’s nothing but a slippery slope that won’t end well. I won’t take a hamburger when I am buying a steak just because they tell me that I might get nothing if I protest it.
It’s up to you if you want to bend the knee and just accept what they give you. No thanks, I won’t be on my knees and just be happy I get what I get.
We just see things in a different manner. I will not give one inch on these situations.
So if the choice was to get this or to have the games censored, again, like they used to be, I've posted plenty of examples in the thread about subtle censorship in re-releases, then I don't see why it's such an issue of "bending the knee" to prefer the uncut and uncensored content if it just comes with a disclaimer that's easily skipped and even outright avoided on the PC/Steam Deck by using one commandline. I feel this comes down to a positive vs negative outlook on the situation, you think this will lead to censorship, I see this as moving away from censorship by just throwing up a cookie cutter disclaimer and letting the content remain untouched.
As for this example, it's actually more akin to having a vegan burger forced on you vs having a proper hamburger but the waiter telling you it contains meat and not suitable for some people.
nkarafo
Member
Why does it have to be one or the other? How about neither? You have accepted these compromises so you are choosing which one to tolerate and even go as far and try to convince yourself you "happily accept them".
Why did you lower your standards though? What happened? Also, let's not forget that the publisher thinks you are racist. Just saying.
Last edited:
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
I see your side and outlook on the situation. However, you don’t just take the lesser crap of the two. You step away and you call them out for being idiots.
I won’t have my children or my grandchildren looking at trigger warnings because people are soft. I look at the trends around and just like college now they use trigger warnings to allow students to not read classic poetry, assignments on slavery, etc, allowing those students to use their anxiety as an out for learning hard truths about the world. Then they graduate and want to use their weakness in real life to change the lives of others around them.
When I went back to college after I retired from
the Corps, I couldn’t believe the amount of students using their perceived anxiety to get out of assignments and discussions were kept to a minimum because people could get hurt. We had a cat the wouldn’t do an assignment on the president because it was the orange man and he was triggered just hearing his name. It is crazy town.
Sorry I went of into right field there, but I wanted to convey that trigger warnings are already being used to censor debates and discussions on topics that are complex.
Oh I dunno, after years of seeing games I like getting re-releases that cut content and censor stuff I guess I'm just happy that games are being released uncut again but with a dumb screen that I don't have to pay attention to because I get to enjoy these games again uncut and uncensored.
I feel this is pretty wide and apart from the craziness that goes on in schools and universities where that kind of stuff is abused none stop. Like I said, from a media perspective, content used to be censored and cut and we'd have no choice in the matter, remember a few years back when a load of episodes of TV shows were removed that featured any character in "blackface"? Over time that, along with old cartoons and such, came back but just had a disclaimer on them, doing that in the media seems to be the best all rounder as it allows the content to remain uncut and if anyone wants to bitch about it the studios can just say "Well there was a disclaimer". A matter of perspective, for me, I see this AFTER content was already censored and we had no choice, so I see it as gaining the uncut and uncensored content again in a legitimate way, for you, you believe this will lead to censorship based on your experiences in college and the messed up soft system, made evident by the way you keep using their term for it "Trigger Warning".
nkarafo
Member
I get it, you are happy the game is released uncensored and you don't care about the publisher straight up insulting you. That's fine. Just to be clear, i'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to not buy or enjoy the game. That's your choice, just don't try to make it look like the publisher not respecting the fans and original devs like this is a non issue or that my side of the argument overreacts.
I do but can also see this as a shitty ploy by Crystal Dynamics because they don't think the Core Design era deserves the respect, meanwhile Aspyr, the actual developers of these versions, have done a fantastic job for old and new fans alike, these versions are legit great and it's such a shame that this is getting overshadowed because Crystal Dynamics threw in a shitty Disclaimer at the start so they can put people off and use it as an excuse that no one will buy these Classic Lara games.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Brother, you don’t bow to this, you fight against it. People in college and high schools graduate every year and then they become the biggest voting block. They also gain employment where they spread the same disease they learned in school. Then they get promoted and it’s spreads further and becomes institutionalized. These warnings have infiltrated companies already throwing them out before SA briefings, drug use briefings, workplace violence and so on.
The crazy thing is that different meta analysis’ have shown they do nothing and actually cause the person more anxiety preparing for the issue, then to just read or watch it. Harvard has also done studies and conclude they hurt the person more than helps.
If you believe it won’t hinder your life in anyway or your children’s in any way in the future you are mistaken. If you are happy with it, then fine, so be it.
Edit: Thank you for the debate and discussion.
Last edited:
nkarafo
Member
I doubt Crystal Dynamics want to sabotage themselves on purpose. Can't say i fully understand your scenario. If they don't want to sell the older games all they had to do was to not make a remastered version of them.
I think this is just a half assed attempt to keep both parties (gamers and tweeter activists) happy and maximize the sales. Gamers would be happy for not censoring it and activists would be happy with the disclaimer. But because they, themselves, are in the twitter activists side, they went a bit overboard with the disclaimer message and made it harsher, much more hostile to the gamers side. They showed how they hate us but they still want out money.
All they had to do was to word the disclaimer more carefully and point out the "racism" without disrespecting the fans and the original developers. But their hate clouded their judgement.
Last edited:
TexMex
Member
Agree with you, it's dumb but it isn't going to ruin my day. I think that the "warning" is incredibly stupid, but the discourse around it - much of it in this thread - is infinitely more childish and insufferable.
DeleteriousObnoxious
Member
To everryone that doesn't wanna support this project because crystal dynamics message your literally playing right into their hands, The Remasters was done by Fans of the old games... Delca "Amazing TRLE maker" - Xproger "Openlara Developer" and many more.
So your really only hurting the fans and those that love the games, because your playing into the hands of Crystal Dynamics message "Haters of Classical tomb raider gameplay".
The message was probably forced by a CEO at Crystal Dynamics because its very easy to skip and it never appears again, the developers even created a launch option "-nolegal" to completely avoid the message. so clearly they have tried to as much as possible to distance themselves from that message.
So your really only hurting the fans and those that love the games, because your playing into the hands of Crystal Dynamics message "Haters of Classical tomb raider gameplay".
The message was probably forced by a CEO at Crystal Dynamics because its very easy to skip and it never appears again, the developers even created a launch option "-nolegal" to completely avoid the message. so clearly they have tried to as much as possible to distance themselves from that message.
Last edited:
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
I don't get how that text and developing the game the way they did is compatible.
They believe the game to be de facto racist and problematic but have no problem working on, releasing and making money off of, a racist and problematic game? What?
They believe the game to be de facto racist and problematic but have no problem working on, releasing and making money off of, a racist and problematic game? What?
MetalFreak
Member
Thanks for making my choice easier CD. Helldivers 2 it is 
tommib
Member
If you’re like me, pressing x repeatedly during splash screens, you won’t see it.
kyussman
Member
The new one on Blazing Saddles is a doozy,I was told a lady actually comes on screen and explains the movie to you in case you thought it was a racist film,of course Blazing Saddles is a film that takes the piss out of racism,and that was in 1974......I'm not sure how anyone could get this mixed up.
Last edited:
Majormaxxx
Member
Parental advisory explicit lyrics
Faust
Perpetually Tired
Any person who has “concerns” that warrant the need of an insulting message before playing is someone who needs to be placed in a looney bin.
You can disagree with the people having concerns, my point is as a business these guys have picked the best way to placate those concerns without affecting the integrity of the original content. Is that not the ideal scenario?
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
No, the idea would be for them to say “Fuck off” and just release the game. What exactly is going to happen if they do that?