memecomplex
Member
They nailed her boob size this time. Perfection.
Tomb Raider has gone gold! Hits nearly 800 fan art submissions.
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
That's what they all say.
I think I didn't express myself correctly.
I don't think playing the old TR games will make me know if the new TR is worth it. But press and gamers reviews will be out by then, so I will know if the game is good after reading those reviews.
I know the reboot is really different, but I refuse to add another TR game to my backlog until I've played the old ones.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Dude I purposefully waited till end of the page to pull the trigger on that one, let it drift off into the sunset, and then you quoted top of next page lol...
Does this image exist without the word. Or at least without the #. I'd like it better then.
If you are a fan of the series you will be back. You will be back when the game is leaked, when it is reviewed, released and then back again when the sales data come out.
I have heard this so many times in a DmC thread to know they will be back. Sometimes even within the same thread as the post. Its hard going cold turkey on something you care about.
bigboss370
Member
the reason alot of people are going to hate this game is because it will actually explore her character and her origins. and she was a very lightly written character before this. previously people had filled that stuff in with their imagination.
toastyToast
Member
I'd like to see how they explain Lara going from being a mass murderer to being really bothered by killing a few people in the first game.
toddhunter
Member
I'm more interested in how she deals with gunning down dinosaurs and giant winged demons. Because you know, that shit can be pretty heavy to deal with.
The reason I don't care about her character is because I rarely care about characters in videogames. Stories in videogames are 99% drivel, imo, and I will likely skip every cutscene I can.
Can Crusher
Banned
Tomb Raider as a franchise is 17 years old. 9 games in the main series have been released in that span....that's like a game every 2 years.
It's time for a big change guys, at least for something to be tried. I'm sure if the game bombs Square Enix will ask for the next one to return to its roots.
But it's ok for a reboot of this kind to happen after 17 years, I understand skepticism towards it but the strong feelings that are being displayed aren't really that reasonable.
If the game sucks then it sucks, but there's so much unwarranted criticism. 17 years...
It's time for a big change guys, at least for something to be tried. I'm sure if the game bombs Square Enix will ask for the next one to return to its roots.
But it's ok for a reboot of this kind to happen after 17 years, I understand skepticism towards it but the strong feelings that are being displayed aren't really that reasonable.
If the game sucks then it sucks, but there's so much unwarranted criticism. 17 years...
toastyToast
Member
That drama would have been transcendent.
Tomb Raider Reboot is just another example of how this industry works. It's plainly obvious.
This game was never meant to be a game for Tomb Raider fans.
They just take a well known name (Tomb Raider), because they don't have to establish it anymore (so it's kinda free PR), and apply a checklist of "industry standards" in terms of gameplay, visuals, gaming mechanics, that seemingly work well (copy Uncharted) and that's it.
Add a lot of cutscenes and voice-acting into the mix, and e voila!, you've got your mc-donalds equivalent of a "good meal".
There is really nothing more to it. From what I've seen and heard there are no fresh ideas in it. It may end up being "tasty" somehow, to stick with my analogy, but that's about it.
Now what is the actual problem here?
a) It's annoying that the industry is not artistically evolving. I'd rather had them taking a risk and build a game centered around the main pillars - like UrbanRats said - of the very first Tomb Raider, namly exploration and isolation. And yes, get rid of the HUMANS (or at least 95% & of them). Let it be Lara against nature, traps, even some "supernatural" things if you have to.
b) People seem to like their mc-donalds food.
If the game becomes a huge success, then nothing will change. The "publisher checklist of unsophisticated mainstream taste" will be proven right.
If the game bombs, it would prove that gamers are not that easy to please and that there is much more to making "good games" than just applying the most successfull industry standards to every franchise.
I somehow hope it's gonna be another "Syndicate" situation here, but that was a little bit different I guess.
I don't feel changing the game elicited nearly as much negativity as changing it to make it almost exactly like another popular ongoing game that embodies core values that are quite different than those of the Tomb Raider series.
Guardian of the Light was very different from Tomb Raider but well received for example.
Even when this game was first announced people were pretty up on it until footage arrived and it looked like Uncharted.
I'm sure the internet is full of "interesting" Tomb Raider fanart.
I would argue that most of the critics in here are in agreement, that the series needed a reboot.
In which direction though? That's the cause of the scandal.
Exploration, puzzles, platforming and minimal human interactions (including combat) were the signature elements most of the fans were into the franchise for; they could've rebooted, retooled and expanded in that direction, yet they chose the shootbang approach.
You find me in complete agreement.
I can understand non Tomb Raider fans looking forward to this game, for the reasons you pointed out and i don't blame them (i do the same with other series i'm not a fan of).
As a fan of Tomb Raider i can only weep at the disappearence of a unique franchise and the birth of yet another copy-cat, bland, blend of soft, inoffensive game design.
It's not even the appropriation of the name that bugs me, if they want the name so bad they can keep it, it's the notion that there won't be another shot at something more Tomb Raider-y, since this is the big reboot, that they plan to track along for several sequels.
The moment someone else will occupy that niche, i 'll jump in and never look back to Lara Croft.
I did that for Tony Hawk --> Skate; i did it for Tenchu --> ShinobiDo, and so on and so forth.
toddhunter
Member
The problem is it isn't like we have been here before. They have constantly tried to "update" the series by introducing more guns and QTEs and melee take downs and all sorts of other shit. Each time they have just made the games worse.
You know what they could do? Big fuck off tombs, treasure at the end. Puzzles, the chance you might have to get lost and look around for a bit before working out where to go.
A sense of challenge, a rewarding feeling.
17 years, so simple, and they still seem to have no idea.
Your point?
I don't get this line of thinking. I've been playing 2D mario since I was 5. I layed SotN when I was like..14? 15? and I love pretty much every game released after it. Tomb Raider around the same time.
I don't see the need for a big change. To me, the big change is the higher-ups at Square Enix chasing a demographic that previously had no interest in Tomb Raider by trying to make Tomb Raider like everything else. There was a lot that could have been explored within the Tomb Raider franchise. Instead long time fans, fans that have enjoyed games in the series for 17 years, have, largely, been tossed to the wayside to appease an unknown demographic.
And it isn't that I don't enjoy change. Guardian of Light was amazing. It was different and kept the core tenants of Tomb Raider intact.
grosvenor_92
Member
But if it's any good I'm getting it for PC
bigboss370
Member
yeah all that is kinda already explained by this being a reboot, not a prequel.
so how is it 99% drivel (in your opinion!) if you skip every cutscene 100% of the time? how are you ever going to like the story/characters if you skip over it?
Can Crusher
Banned
See this is the thing, when James Bond changed to adopt a more modern style that was introduced in hollywood by the Bourne movies, Casino Royale came out.
It's not unnatural or even questionable to adopt a style that audiences have positively responded to. James Bond has been adapting to what's considered "modern action" in any given "era", and that's how Skyfall crossed the billion mark.
Also, "make it almost exactly" just seems like a very big misconception. What is this based on? Tomb Raider adopting a more story-centric approach and improving the action of the series sounds hardly like something that should alienate fans or should be considered unexpected.
Uncharted is set in the same kind of "genre" if you will as Tomb Raider. Uncharted games aren't that different from the Tomb Raider movies in concept. Which weren't exactly original themselves.
This disdain for "abrupt" change is unwarranted until we get to try it. IMO
Be sensible, it's 2013. A big game like Tomb Raider can no longer be just about platforming and puzzles and little human interaction.
It doesn't make sense in this market.
Well I for one can't take another Mario game in my life, and I've felt this way for years. I know that hardly matters since the game is such a huge hit, but I would have a hard time comparing them. Mario is just the game to go for platforming, and that's just how it is and that's how Nintendo gets away with it.
Tomb Raider is no longer the go to game for Action Adventure gaming. Uncharted is murdering it in relevance, and in sales to boost.
SolidSnakex
Member
CD has been focusing more on her character and background ever since they picked up the series. So that really isn't a big deal. The high focus on gunplay, set pieces and what appears to be mediocre platforming mechanics are the main reasons that people are upset. Story of any kind really wouldn't bother fans too much if the mechanics were more like old TR games. They could just skip the cutscenes if the story wasn't doing anything for them.
Because I've watched the media available and drawn that conclusion? Because it hasn't made me interested in the least? Because the attempt to make an origin story wherein Lara is innocent and unused to killing and then requires me, the player, to kill dozens of people en mass is a severe flaw in character development. One that renders any cutscene in which she appears to struggle with what she has done in other cutscene pointless since that is disconnected from everything I have done while in control?
Because, like a book or a movie, if I am not grabbed in the opening moments of the story, the writers have failed to do their job.
Bullshit.
It may or may not be a competent game, but already it misses the foundamental points that were interesting, about Tomb Raider.
Tomb Raider Underworld sold fairly well, actually (and it was rushed out of the door).
Moreover, Uncharted does not focus on the same elements that Tomb Raider does, they are very different experiences, you can't swap one fot he other.
Just like you can't swap Mario Kart for Gran Turismo.
Not that we know of.
There wasn't anything graphic in that scene anyway, just something barely implied.
grosvenor_92
Member
PC = Politically Correct, in this case.
Censored = There was a big outcry about an "attempted rape" scene, in the game.
And no, it wasn't censored.
SolidSnakex
Member
He's talking about the rape scene. CD has already said that it isn't going to be censored.
Can Crusher
Banned
Adventure and Action. Those are the fundamental points of a Tomb Raider game. The interpretation of what makes an action adventure game will depend on the creators, which will obviously be affected by the market's perception of what makes a good action adventure game.
When Tomb Raider first came out in 96 platformers were popular. And it's not like there was no action, because I remember shooting people and dinosaurs, and driving boats in a town that looked like Venice and it all tried this James Bond meets Indiana Jones like vibe.
Platformers aren't exactly popular anymore, and the changes that the franchise slowly took throughout times were all attempts at modernizing the videogame in relation to market's expectations.
It makes perfectly sense that in a era where platforming games are almost irrelevant, that Tomb Raider needed to start from scratch and get with the times.
Tomb Raider has been surviving on nostalgia. It's normal that Square Enix would want for the franchise to become synonymous with action adventure gaming again, and that will never happen if they don't change.
Tomb Raider and Uncharted are nowhere near as far apart as Mario Kart and Gran Turismo, come on.
It's not because people are crazy that when Uncharted came out, they were comparing it to Tomb Raider. It's not by chance that Uncharted is a success, it simply redefined gamers expectations for what a modern action adventure game should be, just like Tomb Raider did so back in the day. That's why Lara became such a gaming icon, she was the face of action adventure gaming.
Still they haven't become the same game from what I see, I've never seen Nathan Drake with a bow and arrow for starters
Fine post, except for the Syndicate comparison.
It was not decided by Starbreeze to reboot Syndicate that way, they were hired to create a shooter set in that universe. The game had amazing visuals and brought boss fights back to the FPS, not to mention the great co-op mode.
Tomb Raider and Uncharted are nowhere near as far apart as Mario Kart and Gran Turismo, come on.
It's not because people are crazy that when Uncharted came out, they were comparing it to Tomb Raider. It's not by chance that Uncharted is a success, it simply redefined gamers expectations for what a modern action adventure game should be, just like Tomb Raider did so back in the day. That's why Lara became such a gaming icon, she was the face of action adventure gaming.
Still they haven't become the same game from what I see, I've never seen Nathan Drake with a bow and arrow for starters
They sure are. I hate Uncharted. I loved Tomb Raider.
I would never touch Gran Turismo. I own several Mario Kart games. The difference in focus is worlds apart.
grosvenor_92
Member
Oh that I thought he meant something else. I assume that didn't go over well and I guess CD left it the way it is to show her arc/evolution.
Can Crusher
Banned
The point is that they are both trying to be a take on Action Adventure, a modern take on Indiana Jones.
Mario Kart doesn't have the same pretenses as Gran Turismo. They are worlds apart in everything, genre/art style/context etc.
Tomb Raider and Uncharted are in fact in the same genre, just like Bourne and James Bond are in the same genre. Even though they are different movies.
You love Tomb Raider and hate Uncharted, that's cool. But I could hate Bourne Identity and love 007 Octopussy, and it doesn't matter. It wouldn't make sense for EON to be trying to make a Roger Moore era movie right now.
I can understand that you don't appreciate the change so far, but if the game is good then the game is good.
Even people change man, and then you meet new people if you can't handle the change.
edit: And come on Guardian of Light was about isolation and platforming? There's a bunch of action in that game.
No, the game isn't good if I don't enjoy it. But, again, it's not the change I have problems with. As has been repeated time and again. "Change' has become the "Dante's white hair" scapegoat for Tomb Raider.
I care more about the Puzzles and Platforming than isolation. The "action" was mostly throwaway, imo, the same way it was in the old tomb raiders. I didn't take much skill and didn't get in the way of what I cared about.
Tomb Raider is an adventure platformer. Uncharted is a 3rd person shooter with watered down platformer elements.
fixed that for you.
Nah, Tomb Raider fans have seen dark times before:
Still a Tomb Raider game though.
And watching the Beta footage makes me sad, so much stuff got cut out and it seems they had much better controls in the beta (I think I recall that they used digipad originally and then changed it in the last minute to analog sticks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiG9d_bxyc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpDc5KErSv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9wyExo6wEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTg4Ph2TkZI
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Please don't tell me you're implying that Angel of Darkness is more of a Tomb Raider game than the re-boot is.
sublimit
Banned
She also wrote the shitty Mirror's Edge story.Funny how some people "forget" mentioning that.
I think generic is the perfect word for it.Just like what most Hollywood composers poop out every year.Their compositions have no identity and instead rely on fancy equipment in order to differentiate themselves from the flock.
The old TR games used to have music with character.You listened to it and went:"Man this is Tomb Raider!"
Absolutely!Core design was basically one shoted in the back by Eidos,from people who never cared about the franchise beyond filling their pockets with money year after year.
But you said this game is going to get stellar reviews and it's going to sell tons!Surely you don't believe the game can be screwed by a few GAFers,right?
Also your friend Harlequin has also said that the game is loved by everyone on the internet except from this site who clearly has an agenda against it.So why do you worry?
There are lots of TR fans who prefer the old Grid system over the automatic control system of Crystal's games.
The problem here however is that there are people (usually younger fans) who think that those fans want the Grid system to return they want it exactly as it was,which is obviously a misconception.Another misconception is that animations = controls which is also wrong.
Long time fans want basically the precision and manual input of the originals to return but with an updated,faster control system.Notice that i'm talking about the platforming here and not the combat which was admittedly terrible in all TR games so far.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
You also forgot to mention that Mirror’s Edge's story wasn't even that bad - the way it was presented was the problem.
You must be pretty hard to please if you think this is generic. It sounds fantastic to me. And the old Tomb Raider games used to have music with character? I don't even know what you're taking about.
I didn't mean the game is screwed when it comes to reviews or sales. I was talking about how the people not liking the look of the game on GAF (or anywhere for that matter) will more than likely still say it's shit even if it ends up being a good game due to the fact that it isn’t like the older games. They've already made up their minds. So basically the game can't win no matter how good or bad it turns out to some of the people on here.......unfortunately it's pretty much going to be Devil May Cry all over again.
Please stop being a joke character, you're hurting yourself. It doesn't help your cause at all.
Of course, the difference between TOMB RAIDER music and the OG Tomb Raider music is as different as the difference between their gameplay - Tomb Raider OG's music is about minimalism, enhancing the gameplay moments at pivotal points. When you discovered something, you knew it was special. Tomb Raider new's music is about being in-your-face, obtrusive and without subtlety - much like the gameplay. So it fits.
Absolutely. I'm actually considering buying it. First time I'll have bought a new game day 1 since DOA5, and currently the only game this year.