RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Haha same chap, was reading this in bed earlier and showed her and she just groaned and said the world needs a fucking cleanse
Tomb Raider is finally decolonized!
- Thread starter kruis
- Start date
RoboFu
One of the green rats
in case other people who also just read the title.
1. It's an extremely old post about a board game that was being made by a third party.
2. It got bumped because it was canceled.
3. It was canceled because apparently the owners of tomb raider didn't like how its license was being used.
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Mayar
Member
So when Netflix made Tomb Raider: The Legend of Lara Croft, nothing bothered them?
P.S - Please don't watch this...
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RetroGamingUK
Member
If the woke RPG has been cancelled due to disagreements with the woke developers and the publisher, do you think this bodes well for the next Tomb Raider game proper?
Sept Terrion Of Nothing
Member
By the way this sentence? I don't want to fathom what the creative difference were there. Remember the original games' remastered version you get below message?
I wonder which one tried to be more woke: Crystal Dynamics (Embracer Group) or Evil Hat Productions. Questions, questions
Angry_Megalodon
Member
diffusionx
Gold Member
Really makes you wonder if other companies that are working on "2020-2022" stuff are revisiting it.
powder
Member
What if they keep the treasure in the game but instead of snatching it she just takes a selfie with it and leaves. That'd be more realistic lol
Lord Malachite
Member
On noes! What are all the slacktivist tabletop gamers who want to pat themselves on the back for making a difference in the world without ever actually doing anything in the real world going to do now? I guess they'll just have to settle for ranting about it on Bluesky and send an op-ed to The New Yorker.
Topher
Identifies as young
I completely agree with you. But considering your love for this GIF, it will probably be easier for you to change your Avatar to it, so as not to post it constantly.
In fact, let them do what they want. The market and demand will judge them, if some studios are eliminated and closed in this way because of their "brilliant" ideas, that's only a plus.
I do like that gif. Appropriate expression for when I think something is stupid, as I did here. Not avatar material though. I can't stop anyone from doing what they want. I can post reactions though.
Azure Crystal Gaming
Member
Seems like more and more we are not allowed to have Anti Heroes in games anymore. What was the last one? The last one I remember playing as was Joel in TLOU. I'm kind of tired of playing as Goody Goody protagonists.
StueyDuck
Member
I wouldn't even say anti heroes.
It's just everything now has to be measured through some insane sociopolitical ideology and characters are ending up having to be "perfect" and are extremely boring.
Like Nathan Drake or Lara aren't really anti-heroes in the literary sense, but because of external social pressures of the modern age, we now have to view them as killers and bad people etc.
Like James Bond was never an anti-hero, nor was any of Arnies classic 80s action characters.
I've always thought the "argument" that Drake is sociopathic murderer and achtucally the bad guy in Uncharted to be one of the lowest IQ vapid takes around. For one, it's a fucking video game. I guess Mario is trying to kill off an entire ecological system by stomping on turtles. Like what are we talking about?
If you want to get "analytical" (and I use that term loosely) and argue that Drake is a bad guy he's also fighting for his life against mass murderers and people trying to kill him. Whats he supposed to do? Summon care bears and unicorns to use the power of rainbows to protect him?
If you're someone who wants to argue that DrAkE iZ a CoLoNiZaer!!!!--~~~ AnD GEtZ WaT hE daSeRvEz then you're just fucking stupid, we have nothing in common, you've never seen or touched a real boob, and are incapable of having fun in your life.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Chloe is an antihero or straight up villain. Nathan Drake could be a legit antihero. Joel is not. He behaves as a decent person would do in the fucked up society he lives in. The same goes with Ellie.
hinch7
Member
Pretty sure Joel is just a flawed character. One of the reasons why in most part that he, Tommy and Tess were alive is because they're hardened survivors that have committed terrible acts, many against innocent people.
Nathan Drake while killing many were always against soldiers of opposing armies many of which were cartoonishly evil, or those that support said villains and leaders.
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Fortress of Regrets
Member
Oh, I thought it was about removing her colon.
powder
Member
LOL this just reads like the convenient version of "it was cheaper to leave it in"By the way this sentence? I don't want to fathom what the creative difference were there. Remember the original games' remastered version you get below message?
I wonder which one tried to be more woke: Crystal Dynamics (Embracer Group) or Evil Hat Productions. Questions, questions
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yep, and "modern gaming" insistence on perfect characters, especially if they are female, ruins quite a few stories.
Edit: And I am also in the camp that devs need to stop overthinking about Tomb Raider. Set the game in the past, let Lara be hot, wear short shorts, and raid Tombs.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I remember this OP post as one of the epitomes of absurd virtue signaling. The characters were actual fucking checklists of oppression.
It was simple, don't make TOMB RAIDER. Create your own new shit where you don't play as the iconic character you hate about things you hate. But alas, that would've made no money so let's use it when it's convenient. I don't get this shit, even as someone well versed in, and usually greatly disgusted by, colonialism as a concept. It's just a game where you do cool shit, jesus christ.
It was simple, don't make TOMB RAIDER. Create your own new shit where you don't play as the iconic character you hate about things you hate. But alas, that would've made no money so let's use it when it's convenient. I don't get this shit, even as someone well versed in, and usually greatly disgusted by, colonialism as a concept. It's just a game where you do cool shit, jesus christ.
simpatico
Member
Then they have to depend on themselves for every sale. With the Tomb Raider IP they get a nice head start to success, despite this being an entirely new IP. Tomb Raider's main bullet point was tits. No amount of coping or paragraph typing will change this. I'd go as far as to say even the modern trilogy butchered the meaning of Tomb Raider. Sure it was a competent Uncharted clone that I bought at launch on all three occasions, but it was a poor attempt at Tomb Raider. I didn't even like the original series tbh. Had the Dreamcast version and there are no memories of ever having a great time with it. Tried like hell, it just never clicked.
I'm not a booba gamer whatsoever, but I think the recipe for success for Tomb Raider is something like the modern trilogy, but with much larger breast, slightly skimpier outfits and more cheeky humor in the writing. A dead serious modern TR makes about as much sense as a dead serious Duke Nukem.
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Icymanipulator
Member
I'll admit, i didn't read the post fully.
Lesson learned, I will try to be more discerning in the future.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I know want to see a serious Duke Nukem game dealing with horrors of alien invasion, psychological impact of collapse of society and fighting the said alien oppressors!
Duke will be a strong female character of course!
simpatico
Member
This is what Remedy should have made like 2 years after Max Payne 2 when they still had their testosterone. With the same tone and tenor of Max 1&2. I'd love to see nihilistic Duke in a worn-down apartment. Chain smoking and doing lines of blow every 10 minutes just trying to cope with the chunky chaos in his wake. Only to be called back into service by an inescapable future.
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1. Well, I hope they get to make their own game with different IP. That's likely the best thing for everyone involved.
2. There is a legitimate conversation about how a lot of archeology has historically involved removing artifacts and treasures from their original cultural context, either for the sake of just plain greed or for overly sanitized "preservation" purposes in a faraway land.
3. However, Tomb Raider isn't really the right place for that debate. It's an action/adventure fantasy starring an action/adventure heroine.
TR games often treat history as more of a suggestion than a real subject of study, especially when various myths and legends appear to be more exciting on the surface. Which is fine by me, and I also don't expect any better from Indiana Jones movies (or, for that matter, games). They're pulp adventure stories, not encyclopedias. Let folks have fun, that's my conclusion.
2. There is a legitimate conversation about how a lot of archeology has historically involved removing artifacts and treasures from their original cultural context, either for the sake of just plain greed or for overly sanitized "preservation" purposes in a faraway land.
3. However, Tomb Raider isn't really the right place for that debate. It's an action/adventure fantasy starring an action/adventure heroine.
TR games often treat history as more of a suggestion than a real subject of study, especially when various myths and legends appear to be more exciting on the surface. Which is fine by me, and I also don't expect any better from Indiana Jones movies (or, for that matter, games). They're pulp adventure stories, not encyclopedias. Let folks have fun, that's my conclusion.
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Overly sanitized preservation?
I'm referring to presenting an artifact or exhibit without its proper context, even in cases where it is well known to have been obtained through conquest, looting or other unsavory practices. In other words, treating it like the object just magically popped up in a whole other country.
It's still being preserved for future generations around the world, which is indeed inherently good in principle, but it can be called "overly sanitized" when you don't at least acknowledge what happened and let visitors know that's also part of the artifact's story. Which, again, I don't really think this is something that should make any players of Tomb Raider games lose any sleep, but it is part of an ongoing debate outside of gaming circles (EDIT: By the way, for the record...my position isn't "return everything"; it's "acknowledge everything").
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Avid Reading Horse
Member
I agree, it's ridiculous. These ancient treasures should be accompanied by exhibits celebrating those who brought them to the loving embrace of western civilization. Maybe add a wing where a cinema shows the good Indiana Jones movies (you know the ones) and a lobby with gaming kiosks where you get to play the good Tomb Raider / Uncharted games (you know the ones). Make it a real multimedia extravaganza.
You made me smile, but I can almost be there with you...the difference is I wouldn't necessarily celebrate them, depending on what they did. Some might well deserve praise, I'm sure, but I'd also have a more critical eye towards others, such as the British soldiers who looted the Benin Bronzes after destroying an entire city.
hinch7
Member
Its all become a trope of late. You can have interesting a strong male and female leads without all the bullshit. Just write them as human beings and be realistic about it. If people can't relate to a character in some way you're doing it wrong.
Unfortunately Crystal Dynamics are as woke as they go and iirc they hated the old Lara legacy originally done by Core Design. So I don't hold much hope for the franchise.
Companies just need to reign in overly politicized stuff or replace the people pushing for it (and that goes for other industries as well). No one wants to hear about colonization and getting preached to in a fucking piece of entertainment, never mind one about raiding tombs. Especially now. That ship has sailed long ago - thank god.
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powder
Member
To be fair, the original Tomb Raider design was corny and completely unrealistic. Who's dressing like that to climb on all that shit?
Cameltoe is really gonna make the game more immersive
hinch7
Member
I was talking more about the writing tbf. But yes, sex sells. As we can see from how well Stellar Blade is doing.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Who cares about realism in Tomb Raider game. Is someone supposed to be taking out dinosaurs in a realistic fashion by dual wielding 9mm ?
It's supposed to be a cool game with interesting puzzles, good gameplay and sexy heroine who is doing … wait for it… Tomb Raiding!
Tams
Member
Money and power, as always.
Obviously not money from a successful product, but employment from the atrempt to create shite like this.
Then of course they have their Message
.As to how it has been allowed to happen? Companies, and society as a whole being bullied into accepting these Messages
, or else be labelled bigoted.
Judge Magister
Member
Last game was in 2018, almost 7 years ago, hope they're having the time to re-evaluate the s* they've been doing.
I never even thought about Colonialism while playing the games.
I never even thought about Colonialism while playing the games.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
People are still liking this over the course of the day.
I just want to say this was a very good month.
Phobos Base
Member
They already made a female Duke Nukem game in Ion Fury, but the same group hated that as well because it had a hidden gay joke in it.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Hard disagree. She has a explorer outfit. Just type explorer on Google. Anyway, a videogame doesnt need to be "realistic" but consistent. The original Tomb Raider is an adventure game with fantasy elements and nothing feels out of place with the overall tone of the game. The new trilogy attempts to be a pseudo-realistic drama show in the vein of Uncharted and fails miserably because that is not Lara Croft , no matter what she looks like.
powder
Member
My whole comment on realism was in response to what someone said like two pages ago but I guess that has been lost at this point.
I actually disagree with your take on the recent trilogy as I think the Tomb Raider reboots (at least the first one) was pretty good. I think the problem was that the two follow ups weren't as successful and the franchise petered out again. Maybe there was too much focus on action? My favorite part about the OG was the eerie quietness of the environments where you were just focused on navigation and puzzle solving. The gunplay was dog shit.
I don't think they need to go back to the triangle titties version, seems like their task is to just make an evolved version of the best parts of the franchise with better graphics and maybe leave some of the fantasy shit out (eg. I don't need to shoot dinosaurs)
the_master
Wants his tomb raided
To be fair, it is good that she no longer goes to steal artifacts from other countries. But it is not very interesting to make the game solely about criticizing colonialism. I'd be up to play an adventure game with several topics.
Its not like she ever was doing stuff like swiping the Magna Carta, the Constitution, or stealing something out of Mecca. She was always hitting ancient, long obsolete cultures with no real current inhabitants other than maybe some nigh savage degenerated remnants (that cave society from the last game being a bit of an exception). Is any current government or peoples really laying claim to cannibals, dark magic, or crap like that? Just 'cause they live on the same dirt as some folks 2000 years ago doesn't mean they share any linguistic, cultural, or religious connections that would make the things dragged out of the 'tomb' any more theirs than Lara's.
the_master
Wants his tomb raided
This is not how it works. A country owns their land and what lays in it. An individual from nother country has no right to go and steal something.
Just sying. I understand it ws just a game, and a good one at the time. Nobody ws offended then that I can remember
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
Just waiting for the narrative, people don't like female leads in game.
Sure, thats the legal reason why folks don't casually do this, but that is equating prior civilization artifacts, long buried and forgotten, with ground water, oil, and minerals. A game where a diamond hunter slips in to raid diamond mines wouldn't be called a "colonizer fantasy" or whatever. Tomb Raider isn't a judgment about european colonization or oppression of 'minority people of color' (who are in fact the VAST MAJORITY of humans on the planet). It's escapist fantasy about exploring a mythic past. Sure, they could look back to purely european/british isle places for inspiration but they also want exotic locales (exotic for the player base, anyway) so they can have that desert, jungle, island stuff.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
To "steal" something it must legally belong to someone. Cavemen who rip each other's hearts for sport don't really grasp those concepts to the same extent we do. Seriously, the idea that those savages care the least for those artifacts is laughable. I'm so fedup with the myth of the noble savage.