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[Durante]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

 

[QFNS]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

This right here. I also argued for RTwP in that thread and was disappointed when it got voted out for turn based. At the time Divinity OS was very popular (as it should be), but for this system I think getting a chance to move more fluidly and without so many clunky wasted turns in every crisis would have been a godsend.

 

[Eusis]

Look, it was a bad time for turn based games period, or at least it seemed that way to me then when non-action RPGs of any stripe seemed to be endangered. Even Final Fantasy was going action RPG. Though i should've probably stopped to think whether that mattered for a game like this. Hell, it probably doesn't matter for a game like FF.

 

[LiQuid!]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

I didn't catch that thread, but I think the problems with this game's combat has much more to do with it being turn based. Plenty of RPGs used turn based combat systems effectively. The combat in this game just don't have a lot of strong mechanics backing it up.

 

[WormwoodStudios]

In the same way I loved how the Council Clerk is the embodiment of a True Neutral character and will just spill the beans and provide with even more interesting stories.

The Council Clerk is my homage to one of Jack Vance's recurrent "types," the supercilious bureaucrat. Glad you liked him.

 

[mentok15]

Anyone play the console version? I don't think my MacBook would run this.

 

[MartyStu]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

If one was to take the game as is today and convert tit to RTWP with as little effort as possible, then yeah, if would be a better game.

But seeing how bad inXile fucked turn based up, I can confidently say that they would have significantly missed the mark still.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Yeah, that's the only part of the game that I think they really need to fix. What team you running?

I had a Diplomacy Nano, Erritus, Matkina, and Rhin and I just ran up the left side having the tendrils open the paths and then just brute forced the heart.

I have to say though Rhin is really damn good at Tier 3 where she can reuse cyphers. Just give her all the AOE ones and watch everything die. I beat that

Spoiler

killer robot at The Bloom without too much trouble.

I have a cautious Jack, Erritus, Matkina, and Aligern.

I can make up it up to opening the heart but not actually getting to it cos by then the cultists have appeared and screws everything up.

Edit: finally done it, even though it involved loading an earlier save and doing another side quest to get a new item that would help me >_>

 

[Eusis]

Now that I think about it, I would like to at least raise my later companions to have the same EXP as the Last Castoff. I don't want to inadvertently handicap someone like Rhin because I was late to recruiting her.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

Now that I think about it, I would like to at least raise my later companions to have the same EXP as the Last Castoff. I don't want to inadvertently handicap someone like Rhin because I was late to recruiting her.

Yeah, its not so much of a problem in Sagus because you can get all the party members except Matkina before you do the first story mission there and Matkina already starts at Tier 2 so she was already equal to my party when I got to her after doing most of the sidequests available in Sagus. It's definitely a problem later on in the game because then the characters you don't use are severely underleveled and have no way of catching up, so you really have to commit to your party once you leave Sagus pretty much.

 

[kevin1025]

So from this thread, I suppose it's best to avoid the PS4 version?

 

[AWizardDidIt]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

Nothing about the game system of Numenera would work in a RTwP situation as far as I can see. In fact I'm not even sure why they made it a vote during the kickstarter because I literally can't see how this game could have had RTwP unless it deviated so far from the ruleset it became something else entirely. It's just too freeform compared to AD&D, one of those 'rules light' RPGs that don't have tight mechanical enforcement of combat and leave more up to the interaction of GM and players.

 

[JustSomeone]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

If you care about combat in a Torment game, you are doing something wrong

 

[Fantastapotamus]

If you care about combat in a Torment game, you are doing something wrong

To be fair being a "Torment" game doesn't prohibit it from having good combat. It's not like that's not possible.

 

[Turin Turambar]

One advantage of RTwP in a game like this is that you would be able to choose the easiest difficulty and breeze through it, focusing on the dialogue and narrative instead.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

One advantage of RTwP in a game like this is that you would be able to choose the easiest difficulty and breeze through it, focusing on the dialogue and narrative instead.

Not sure what happened later on but I encoutered 3 crisis in 8 hours so it's not that bad

 

[Eusis]

If you care about combat in a Torment game, you are doing something wrong

That's part of his point actually. Just get it out of the way ASAP so he can go back to why he's REALLY playing.

And if you wanted good turn based combat, well, among western RPGs Divinity OS is basically the reigning champion.

EDIT: And he himself comes in to say what he thought!

 

[Durante]

Nothing about the game system of Numenera would work in a RTwP situation as far as I can see.

Conversely, I don't see a single thing implemented in the actual game (I don't play the PnP version) that wouldn't work in RTwP. Care to expand on that?

If you care about combat in a Torment game, you are doing something wrong

It's not that battles take up much time (I said as much on the previous page), but whatever time they do take up would be significantly less annoying (and probably less overall) if it was RTwP.

If battles with the current system were a bigger part of the game it would be a huge blow against it. As is, it's just an annoyance.

 

[Sinatar]

Conversely, I don't see a single thing implemented in the actual game (I don't play the PnP version) that wouldn't work in RTwP. Care to expand on that?

There is no auto attack in this system, you have to assign effort to every swing.

 

[kionedrik]

After reading some comments I really wonder how big is the combat role later on because I'm 20h in and I only had 3 combat scenarios that were easily settled in 2 minutes each.

 

[Durante]

There is no auto attack in this system, you have to assign effort to every swing.

Allow setting a state per-character which stores the effort to apply per-swing unless actively overruled for a specific attack.

 

[Violet_0]

almost done talking with everyone in the first city area (circus), I'm really quite liking the game so far. The setting is pretty great, the MC origins story is rather creative

game mechanics question, are edges really worth it? Can't you just collect a ton of stat-healing items for the same effect?

also, oh man ciphers - don't they know that one-use items are every RPG-hoarder's nightmare?

 

[CottonWolf]

Yep. The combat is this game is more annoying than the combat in PS:T which is something of an achievement. Also, Aligern's pretty disappointing. His character arc seems half-baked. Erritis is great though, and Rhin's a believable child.

Beyond that, I really enjoyed the game. Definitely not PS:T level though, the combat just drags it down too much.

game mechanics question, are edges really worth it? Can't you just collect a ton of stat-healing items for the same effect?

In theory yes, but you have to take them to level up anyway, so it's rather academic. Plus you get so much edge that late in the game many actions become a 100% chance of success for free.

 

[kionedrik]

Is there a way to enter

Spoiler

the labyrinth

from

Spoiler

the valley of dead heroes

?

 

[Violet_0]

In theory yes, but you have to take them to level up anyway, so it's rather academic. Plus you get so much edge that late in the game many actions become a 100% chance of success for free.

oh, ya I already got the impression that the stats/ability system might be a bit half-baked when you are forced to pick every category for the next tier regardless, or so I assume. I don't much like the %-based skill checks either - well, I've never really been a fan of skill checks in general. In practice you just auto-resolve non-combat interactions

is there a lot of unavoidable combat later on? I'm already taking as many social skills as possible

one more thing, is there a way to see all the tides, or just the dominant ones?

 

[Arkkoran]

Is there a way to enter

Spoiler

the labyrinth

from

Spoiler

the valley of dead heroes

?

You should be able to

Spoiler

kill yourself drinking from the red pool by Phoenix

 

[Sinatar]

is there a lot of unavoidable combat later on? I'm already taking as many social skills as possible

There is no unavoidable combat. I finished the game without killing a single enemy. You can't avoid the Crisis situations, but you don't have to fight in them.

 

[Menome]

There is no unavoidable combat. I finished the game without killing a single enemy. You can't avoid the Crisis situations, but you don't have to fight in them.

How did you defeat

Spoiler

The Adversary

? That seemed like a combat-or-nothing situation.

I'm progressing a lot slower than most people. Just left Sagus Cliffs and dealt with the trio at the entrance to the next area. Quite happy taking my time and swapping between this and Horizon: Zero Dawn in my spare time.

 

[Vamphuntr]

I'm not continuing until it gets patched. Game crashed twice in the same battle (reloaded after the crash and started form beginning of the fight and it crashed again) this is simply unacceptable. My PC should have no problem playing this either.

 

[swarley64]

7 hours in, and I'm still exploring the starter city and just talking to people....

Yep, this is what a PST sequel should be!

 

[kionedrik]

How did you defeat

Spoiler

The Adversary

? That seemed like a combat-or-nothing situation.

I'm progressing a lot slower than most people. Just left Sagus Cliffs and dealt with the trio at the entrance to the next area. Quite happy taking my time and swapping between this and Horizon: Zero Dawn in my spare time.

I also defeated him in a non-violent way. I can't remember for sure how I did it but I can recall

Spoiler

he asked me three questions to see if I shared his vision and at the end I had to pass a persuasion check (?)

. Maybe your tidal affinity affects the dialogue options available.

 

[Sinatar]

How did you defeat

Spoiler

The Adversary

? That seemed like a combat-or-nothing situation.

Spoiler

I beat him with intelligence checks, trapped him the labyrinth and destroyed it altogether.

 

[#sorrynotsorry]

Anyone found a way to switch party members after you leave the starter area? I've heard there's an easy way but I'm not sure how. Im pretty far into the game.

 

[Sinatar]

Anyone found a way to switch party members after you leave the starter area? I've heard there's an easy way but I'm not sure how. Im pretty far into the game.

Spoiler

Use the bronze orb. I can't remember where the bronze orb is found though.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Spoiler

Use the bronze orb. I can't remember where the bronze orb is found though.

Spoiler

In one of the mirrors in the Sanctuary - NOT THE LARGE OVAL ONE!

 

[Eusis]

I think I bugged out a quest (

Spoiler

One True Love

), or it isn't meant to marked as complete if

Spoiler

you tell the guy to stop chasing the woman.

II reloaded when I progressed to the next area but maybe I'll just give that up.

 

[Durante]

I've played more (a bit over 12 hours in), and I have to admit that I like the game a lot right now. I'm much happier with my companions too, settled on

Spoiler

Erritis, Matkina and Rhin

. Which also incidentally means that I have 4 different character "classes" in my party, which appeals to my sense of balance

Anyway, I can't hate a game where I can walk into a single tavern and only get out roughly 2 hours later -- because I spent all that time talking.

7 hours in, and I'm still exploring the starter city and just talking to people....

I'm 12 hours in, and I expect I'll need at least another two before I'm ready to move on.

 

[Eusis]

I have a feeling a lot of us are settling on the same party make up. Which makes it a shame two of them refuse to travel together for the sake of replays.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

Conversely, I don't see a single thing implemented in the actual game (I don't play the PnP version) that wouldn't work in RTwP. Care to expand on that?

The effort system isn't something that would really "work" in a RTWP situation. It's too variable and in any combat scenario I'm usually switching effort expenditures too frequently for it to not be a fiddly mess if it was real time.

The turn based system is also what allows the strengths of the crisis system to shine through. Spending actions that could be used on attacks to try interacting with the environment or trying to speak with an enemy to attempt a diplomatic resolution really works better in a turn based format.

Idk I am someone who also loves RTwP combat, I just don't think it's a good fit for this particular game

 

[SkyTurnsRed]

For those who have finished it - how many hours did it take you?

 

[Sinatar]

For those who have finished it - how many hours did it take you?

34

 

[DrSlek]

For those who have finished it - how many hours did it take you?

40 hours. I plan to play through it again soon as a Nano or Glaive. My recent playthrough was almost totally pacifist except for about 3 actual fights I couldn't get out of. So a combat playthrough will be an interesting change.

 

[Violet_0]

quick update - I'm pretty much done with talking to everyone at Cliff's Edge, picked up the new companions (my favorites so far). Taking the mind-reading skill at the start is pretty much mandatory it seems. Stopped at the Fifth Eye for today, easily the talkiest section up until now

I'm honestly loving this game at the moment. Might be an unpopular opinion, but Tides easily trumps Pillars for me in the writing/lore department. Gotta see where it goes but from what I played it's a worthy Torment successor

There is no unavoidable combat. I finished the game without killing a single enemy. You can't avoid the Crisis situations, but you don't have to fight in them.

nice, good to know they considered this

 

[MartyStu]

I've played more (a bit over 12 hours in), and I have to admit that I like the game a lot right now. I'm much happier with my companions too, settled on

Spoiler

Erritis, Matkina and Rhin

. Which also incidentally means that I have 4 different character "classes" in my party, which appeals to my sense of balance

Anyway, I can't hate a game where I can walk into a single tavern and only get out roughly 2 hours later -- because I spent all that time talking.

I'm 12 hours in, and I expect I'll need at least another two before I'm ready to move on.

I know the tavern you are referring to, and that entire side-quest was amazing.

Also, that is my exact party. I think it may actually be the best one.

 

[Corpekata]

Really wish there were character portraits when talking.

For more important characters at least. Given the sheer amount of people you can talk to, it's understandable why not all of them do.

 

[Violet_0]

where do you encounter

Spoiler

Matkina

? In the underground part of the city? And there are only

Spoiler

6

companions in total, right?

and yeah, it seems that everyone likes the same characters

 

[nynt9]

If I was a resentful person I'd note that almost every single thing I argued back in the RTwP vs TB thread for this game in favor of the former over the latter came true, and basically nothing in favor of the latter (except for inXile having less work and an easier time at porting to console, both things that they didn't exactly advertise with).

I am a resentful person.

This right here. I get shouted down every time I bring the RTWP vs TB thing (and how they were shitty and kind of dishonest about it) and I kept saying that TB will make a game like this tedious. Lo and behold, it did. Everyone kept making excuses for the developers saying how one can design a good TB system and make every encounter count, but many encounters are still tedium fests of moving and doing basic attacks. XCOM this game is not. If this was the exact same game but with RTWP it would have been straight up better. The combat design is mostly like POE and almost partially designed for RTWP but it's a TB system. It's not fun.

I've seen systems similar to effort or spending time to talk to people work in a RTWP context, and I've seen turn based games that had concepts similar to this not be hella tedious. This is neither, and it's just a shame for it. The game is cool, the setting is pretty well realized and I want to play more of the story, but every time there's combat it's just not enjoyable. It's not the strength of these developers yet they have way too much of it and it's handled way too poorly. They just don't have the chops to do this type of combat I think.

 

[Sinatar]

where do you encounter

Spoiler

Matkina

? In the underground part of the city? And there are only

Spoiler

6

companions in total, right?

and yeah, it seems that everyone likes the same characters

She's part of the main story, you can't miss her.

 

[Chairman Yang]

It would never be the exact same combat except with RTWP. Virtually no developer--with the possible exception of the people who made BG2--can resist packing their RTWP system with boring filler encounters. The theoretical benefit of quickly resolving useless fights never seems to lead to substantially less time spent in useless fights. And if InXile had the skill to avoid that trap, they would have had the skill to make great TB battles.

BG2, IWD, and maybe IWD2 had RTWP combat truly on par with the top turn-based systems. While there's always a chance that someone will make a game with RTWP combat that matches those, it doesn't look likely, unless POE2 is a truly massive, across-the-board improvement. By contrast, I can cite many good-to-great turn-based systems.

Whatever the merits on paper of a RTWP system, developers just can't seem to execute properly. With TB they can, and with increasing consistency.

 

[Fatalmephisto]

Just got done beating the PS4 version and WOW what a story. Amazing experience. Shame it will mostly go unnoticed on consoles. Also Rhin was by far the best character in the game, that ending OMG almost brought a tear of joy to my eye. So happy with her.