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[Moff]

edit-- normally loading a save would fix this but I would lose hours of game time in this case, because of my last save that isn't autosave or quicksave is so far off. I guess I'll have to do it, and save manually into a new slot every 10 minutes instead of using a quicksave.

There is an autosave everytime you change a screen so I don't see your problem.

 

[Durante]

Personally, when I play a CRPG, I hit F5 every minute or so, and before I do anything of any import.

It's a reflex honed over decades

 

[Moff]

Personally, when I play a CRPG, I hit F5 every minute or so, and before I do anything of any import.

It's a reflex honed over decades

"Save early and often" should be in a crpgamers dna by now. I do it before every npc I talk to.

 

[kionedrik]

"Save early and often" should be in a crpgamers dna by now. I do it before every npc I talk to.

So glad I'm not the only one with this compulsive behavior.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

So glad I'm not the only one with this compulsive behavior.

A bad save state can change the nature of a man.

 

[Lister]

A bad save state can change the nature of a man.

Yeah, super frequent saves, especially done on reflex, have gotten me into trouble sometimes too.

Just last night wiht PIllars, I ended up with a quick save 2 seconds before an unavoidable battle starts without rest, or high level spells left, and with one companion near death. Almost didn't make it!

I love it when rpg's or games in general have rolling quick saves so tha tI always have a few recent states to roll back to.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

There is an autosave everytime you change a screen so I don't see your problem.

Problem is that the sequence I'm talking about is multiple areas long and happens inside

Spoiler

your head

. You know, the kind of event that you don't stop in middle of to think if you are in danger of being thrown out of current quest hub. I can load, but playing that took a long time so it's a lengthy re-play.

Which is why it's annoying, but not a game stopper. Sorry for ranting.

 

[Conezays]

I have to say that I'm enjoying the game quite a bit -- primarily on the strength of its setting and story. What I feel are the largest ingredients missing or worse at this point vis-a-vis PST are the companions, which just don't feel nearly as fun and unique as those in PST. And the average quality of the writing isn't as good.

I agree with this. The writing is generally quite good but there's something missing; the prose has a little less character or unique qualities IMO. Some companions are more interesting than others, but I agree that they're not as good as PST thus far.

 

[xeroborn55]

So is everyone enjoying the game?

I had bought it but returned don't really have the time right now to play it, and when I do have time I don't really want to have most of the 'gameplay' be reading text.

Seeing this thread pop up always gets me interested again though.

 

[bati]

Personally, when I play a CRPG, I hit F5 every minute or so, and before I do anything of any import.

It's a reflex honed over decades

Also never ever using consumables, hoarding skill points just in case and backtracking over every area 3 times to make sure you haven't missed anything. All while wearing a Shirt of Main Quest Avoidance +10.

 

[Gbraga]

Can you quicksave on controller?

EDIT: I guess I could just create a Steam shortcut for something like L2 + Select.

 

[Conezays]

So is everyone enjoying the game?

I had bought it but returned don't really have the time right now to play it, and when I do have time I don't really want to have most of the 'gameplay' be reading text.

Seeing this thread pop up always gets me interested again though.

The bulk of your play time will definitely be spent reading, so that's definitely something to consider when making your purchase. I think it's well worth playing if you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Mivey]

"Save early and often" should be in a crpgamers dna by now. I do it before every npc I talk to.

That comes from adventure games, though. "Save early, save often, and don't overwrite saves." was used in old Sierra On-line games manuals and the like.

 

[Durante]

Also never ever using consumables, hoarding skill points just in case and backtracking over every area 3 times to make sure you haven't missed anything. All while wearing a Shirt of Main Quest Avoidance +10.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[water_wendi]

i think tonight ill be able to finally play it. Backed the game but wanted to wait until i had a day off to really get into it.

 

[Gattsu25]

"Save early and often" should be in a crpgamers dna by now. I do it before every npc I talk to.

I've been having problems saving on the release steam version. The saving icon (spinning circle) never disappears and going to the Load screen shows that I have no saves :/

Makes it hard to play the game.

 

[grumble]

I've been having problems saving on the release steam version. The saving icon (spinning circle) never disappears and going to the Load screen shows that I have no saves :/

Makes it hard to play the game.

Time to do an all-weekend ironman game - enter as a man, leave as a legend

 

[Taruranto]

I finished the game last night and this has to be the worst turn-based combat experience I've ever had (end game spoilers)

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/sMHCrTr.jpg I had to go through around 5 rounds of that mob rotation and keep in mind the performance of the game is sketchy at the best of times...

Overall I enjoyed my time with the game and the focus on a couple of story-rich locations was a nice change of pace from the grand exploration of Pillars or the endless combat of Tyranny. However, it doesn't hold a candle to the original. All of the companions are forgettable, the setting doesn't feel anywhere near as fantastical and whilst the writing of the game is suitably floral it didn't ever leave me feeling much of an impact. I'd also say that the front half of the game is significantly better than the back half.

To be honest, so far Mask of the Betrayer feels like a better spiritual successor to Torment than this.

 

[Billfisto]

I'm sure it's already been brought up several times, but boy, a game that looks this basic shouldn't run this poorly on the PS4. I've liked what I've played so far, but it really feels like I'm playing a poor Vita port or something.

Hopefully they can optimize it better in some way.

 

[Screaming Meat]

That was a damn good opening.

 

[alexanderftw]

I want to bite and buy the game however I have a few questions. For someone who did not play the classic Planescape, did not enjoy/finish Wasteland 2, and liked Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny, would you recommend it? Now that the hype is down, I'm seeing a huge wave of negative comments on steam besides the usual cut backer content comments. It literally dropped 10% in reviews in 3 days and its still dropping.

Should I, should I not?

 

[Saren is Bad]

So I was loving this game until I got to a combat encounter 2 hours in. Immediately asked for a refund on Steam. Think I'll either pick up the inevitable Directors Cut or just wait for sale.

 

[Anno]

I want to bite and buy the game however I have a few questions. For someone who did not play the classic Planescape, did not enjoy/finish Wasteland 2, and liked Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny, would you recommend it? Now that the hype is down, I'm seeing a huge wave of negative comments on steam besides the usual cut backer content comments. It literally dropped 10% in reviews in 3 days and its still dropping.

Should I, should I not?

What is it that you enjoyed about Pillars/Tyranny and disliked about W2?

 

[thecrpgbook]

Gave this a spin today and got really frustrated. While I admire that they tried something new with the setting and the combat, it just doesn't work for me.

A big issue is that it failed to hook me. There's no mystery, the first 20 minutes rushed me with tons of flashbacks, explaining my origin, the Changing God, giving me companions, showing the big bad, sending me on a fetch quest... yet it never bothers to make me care. Is like the devs never heard of foreplay.

Besides, when everything tries to stand out at once, nothing stands out. A giant alien in a cage would be really cool in Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Skyrim, Dragon's Age or any RPG out there. I would want to know the story behind it, try its quest, etc. In Numanuma it's displayed alongside dozens of wacky things, none of which form a cohesive setting grounded on rules you can explore. You could add Barney the Dinosaur and a Space Marine there as well and they would be just another wacky thing. "The Extrapolarizared Demi-Crystal of Snazr'Exer opened a portal and brought them here". "Oh, okay".

But my biggest issue here is the writing. I hope this game ends forever this stupid trend of measuring RPGs by word count. Numenera's writing feels like every single word ever written inside InXile's office made into the final game, including meeting notes and birthday cards, without a single edit pass.

Yes, Planescape: Torment was wordy as hell, but there's a big difference. For example:

This is pointless. It describes exactly what I'm seeing, without a single additional detail. It serves no purpose at all.

Compare this with Planescape showing you something weird:

The writers here trust in the audience to have, like, eyes. There's no "You see a massive book with a guy writing things on it" - instead, the text ADDS details you can't see. Planescape allows the game to speak for itself and the players to interpret it. Not even Morte is introduced by text described. You just start the game, wake up and he comes talk to you - there's no "You see a friendly yet somewhat suspicious skull that's somehow floating around. He opens his mouth and sounds start to come out, forming syllables, words and soon sentences".

In isolation, this may seem like I'm nitpicking Numenera. But it's so common that over time you start to get the urge to skip text. When that happens, the game is dead - there's nothing left there.

 

[alexanderftw]

What is it that you enjoyed about Pillard/Tyranny and disliked about W2?

What I liked about PoE and Tyranny were the characters and story specifically and the whole idea of the games, mystery in PoE and villainy in Tyranny. What I didnt like about Wasteland 2 was it felt somewhat lacking..I dont know how to explain..boring I guess? I did not like the environment artistically speaking, and the story simply did not stick with me for some reason which was odd because I love post-apocalyptic atmosphere and the start of the game did offer a lot of mystery but nothing to attach to , no interesting character. Turn based combat was also a problem in wasteland 2 because it became rather annoying and made worse by having the same song over and over and over. Music/sound is very important for me as well. Now if the turn based combat is similar to Divinity OS, now that would be great.

 

[Last Hearth]

My biggest complaint are the companions, it's night and day compared to PST's companions.
Even the least interesting companion in PST is light years ahead of any of the companions in this game.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I think the writing's excellent. I'm playing the game in short spurts, so maybe that helps? By comparison, I tried to play PoE the same way, and it felt like I was getting smashed with a Wall of Text in every non-combat interaction.

Jumping on the W2 thoughts. I think it's a good action-oriented RPG, but I didn't enjoy the 'verse at all. The faux 80s future tech wasteland, and the humour, annoyed me more than anything.

Nonetheless, I enjoyed it enough to back W3.

 

[Taruranto]

Gave this a spin today and got really frustrated. While I admire that they tried something new with the setting and the combat, it just doesn't work for me.

A big issue is that it failed to hook me. There's no mystery, the first 20 minutes rushed me with tons of flashbacks, explaining my origin, the Changing God, giving me companions, showing the big bad, sending me on a fetch quest... yet it never bothers to make me care. Is like the devs never heard of foreplay.

Besides, when everything tries to stand out at once, nothing stands out. A giant alien in a cage would be really cool in Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Skyrim, Dragon's Age or any RPG out there. I would want to know the story behind it, try its quest, etc. In Numanuma it's displayed alongside dozens of wacky things, none of which form a cohesive setting grounded on rules you can explore. You could add Barney the Dinosaur and a Space Marine there as well and they would be just another wacky thing. "The Extrapolarizared Demi-Crystal of Snazr'Exer opened a portal and brought them here". "Oh, okay".

But my biggest issue here is the writing. I hope this game ends forever this stupid trend of measuring RPGs by word count. Numenera's writing feels like every single word ever written inside InXile's office made into the final game, including meeting notes and birthday cards, without a single edit pass.

Yes, Planescape: Torment was wordy as hell, but there's a big difference. For example:

This is pointless. It describes exactly what I'm seeing, without a single additional detail. It serves no purpose at all.

Compare this with Planescape showing you something weird:

The writers here trust in the audience to have, like, eyes. There's no "You see a massive book with a guy writing things on it" - instead, the text ADDS details you can't see. Planescape allows the game to speak for itself and the players to interpret it. Not even Morte is introduced by text described. You just start the game, wake up and he comes talk to you - there's no "You see a friendly yet somewhat suspicious skull that's somehow floating around. He opens his mouth and sounds start to come out, forming syllables, words and soon sentences".

In isolation, this may seem like I'm nitpicking Numenera. But it's so common that over time you start to get the urge to skip text. When that happens, the game is dead - there's nothing left there.

Great post. Definitely agree, especially with the lack of hook.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

That comparison feels like overly cherry picking to me since as I've been going around Sagus Cliffs I have been seeing *loads* of very descriptive text elaborating on details concerning objects in the environment. And the writing has always seemed quite good.

I'm not going to claim it matches or exceeds Torment's writing, but I haven't found it significantly inferior either. There have so far been some great pieces of descriptive prose.

I do share some concerns about the companions though. So far they've been interesting gimmicks but seem unrealized as characters.

 

[vocab]

The writers here trust in the audience to have, like, eyes. There's no "You see a massive book with a guy writing things on it" - instead, the text ADDS details you can't see. Planescape allows the game to speak for itself and the players to interpret it. Not even Morte is introduced by text described. You just start the game, wake up and he comes talk to you - there's no "You see a friendly yet somewhat suspicious skull that's somehow floating around. He opens his mouth and sounds start to come out, forming syllables, words and soon sentences".

In isolation, this may seem like I'm nitpicking Numenera. But it's so common that over time you start to get the urge to skip text. When that happens, the game is dead - there's nothing left there.

I feel like you cherry picked an example to prove your point, but PST has a bunch of long, elaborate, and wordy options, and so does most of the other games you listed. The issue with DivOS,Wasteland 2, and probably this game is that they shower you with redundant choices and text on npcs that you already read before making each npc seem overly written.

 

[southerncross]

great post

I gave up on the game for the reasons you gave here. P:ST's Mortuary always seemed a bit too verbose to me, but after giving Numenera's prologue a shot I realized how great Avellone's word economy was in comparison. Maybe it's my tolerance for fantasy lowering with age, but if you're gonna get this elaborate about worldbuilding without focusing on the reasons I should care about your world, I'm gonna bail out – fast. For example, why should I care about the interactive flashbacks when they feel as disjointed as those PoE kickstarter NPC stories?

 

[MartyStu]

I definitely agree that the game is too verbose for its own good, but I think that while this is a mark against it, it ONLY 'fails' if you compare it to some of the best in the genre. The writing--at least in the first 1/3--is really good otherwise.

Bigger marks against the game:

-The boring-ass companions. Erritus and Rhin are the only saving graces of the cast. And Erritus requires playing a specific way in order to truly appreciate him.
-Companion reactivity. There are so few of them, they should be integrated more tightly
-The combat. Why does this game even have a combat system? It does NOTHING with it. Even worse: when it comes up, it actively drags the game down.​

To be fair, discussing combat systems in depth here seems almost OT, since I've played Torment for over 3 hours now and only fought the tutorial "battle".

The companions, at least so far, are a much bigger issue.

There are some unavoidable combat sections, especially in side quests. Took me nearly 15 hours before my first combat sequence beyond the tutorial in the labyrinth. I was floored with how poor with was.

 

[jtb]

I haven't (yet) had a chance to start the game, so let me just ask this before I dig into it tonight:

does the game have an emotional core?

the window dressing, the word count, the dialogue trees, all of that means nothing to me if it's not at the service of a human story.

 

[Conezays]

Agreed with criticisms of the type of writing. However, I do think the game markedly improves once you get beyond the opening hour or so.

 

[Massicot]

I liked the companions but I went with Rhin, Erritus, and Matkina, largely because the first two you meet and Tybir are all kinda boring.

 

[thecrpgbook]

I feel like you cherry picked an example to prove your point, but PST has a bunch of long wordy as fuck options, and so does most of the other games you listed.

You're missing the point. It's not about length, it's about value.

Simply put, a lot of what you read in Numanuma adds nothing. Instead, they drag the game down and dilute information. You spend a lot of time reading and clicking through dialog without learning anything important. Seriously, a good editor could cut A LOT of this game out and it would flow much better.

Take the intro for example. What all those MANDATORY flashbacks add? You still haven't even created your character and the game is giving you multiple story bits to read and make decisions upon. Why should I care? You could say they are there to demonstrate the various past lives of the Changing God, but for that same purpose you have your flashbacks while falling, the blue ghost you meet after creating your char, the two companions shouting exposition as soon as you wake up and basically every NPC in the game. FFS, the game's trailer already tells you much more than all that in like 2 minutes.

Does the game really need ALL of these? Only 20 minutes in and the past lives of the Changing God are no longer something mysterious and cool I want to know more - quite the opposite in fact, I wish people would shut up about them. So while in PS:T your quest is to find more about who you are, solving challenges as they appear, in Numanuma you learn everything by exposition as soon as the game starts, then you have to fix a broken crystal because the game orders you to do so.

Compare that with how other games have simple, short and captivating hooks like "Find the Water Chip" or "Ring the bells" and you'll see all those words only serve the writers & lore, not the game & player.

 

[Purkake4]

It's going to be a good year for CRPGs, looking forward to seeing how they all shape up and compare to Torment.

 

[Anno]

It's going to be a good year for CRPGs, looking forward to seeing how they all shape up and compare to Torment.

My mind is drawing a blank. What else are we expecting this year besides (hopefully) the full release of D:OS2? Maybe a Tyranny expansion as well.

 

[Purkake4]

My mind is drawing a blank. What else are we expecting this year besides (hopefully) the full release of D:OS2? Maybe a Tyranny expansion as well.

Let's see: D:OS2, Copper Dreams, No Truce With the Furies, Stygian: Reign of the Old Ones, Barkley 2, plus the Underrail expansion.

I'd throw Battletech on there as well, but I'm sure opinions on its genre diverge quite a bit.

 

[bonesmccoy]

The 'stalgia goggles have taken over this thread.

Stygian looks very interesting!

 

[Taruranto]

The dude with the tattoos started pretty well, but he got boring quickly. He's too supportive and he doesn't have the same charm as Morte or these kind of "bro" characters. As MartyStu said, Erritus and Rhin are the most interesting, Rhin especially since she's a genuine puzzle.

Also the lacks of portraits when I talk with the companions bothers me for some reasons.

 

[Eusis]

Man, I cheesed the

Spoiler

Fathom 1

combat encounter. It was probably meant to be harrowing and tense with more

Spoiler

Sorrow fragments

popping up over time, but I'd just knock each one down with an energy infused dagger stab from Matkina and surround and gang up on them one by one. Then most crucially, retreat,

Spoiler

exit the Labyrinth, then return with everyone but the Last Castoff refreshed.

I half wonder if that last bit was intentional or not, I hope they leave it as is if not just because the combat sucks and I don't think this can be avoided.

 

[Arkkoran]

Not surprised it looks like Erritus and Rhin are the most interesting considering their authors.

 

[Anno]

Also the lacks of portraits when I talk with the companions bothers me for some reasons.

Actually yeah what is with a lack of portraits? I haven't played much of the game maybe I'm just missing something. Beautiful character portraits are one of my favorite CRPG things.

 

[Funyarinpa]

What exactly is Shadowrun? saw mention of it ITT i think, close to the word "cyberpunk", and I'm interested

 

[Purkake4]

What exactly is Shadowrun? saw mention of it ITT i think, close to the word "cyberpunk", and I'm interested

It's an old, but still running tabletop RPG setting and system featuring heavy cyberpunk and a magic + technology world. It's being mentioned because Harebrained Schemes kickstarted a bunch of good CRPGs in it. I'd recommend you start with Shadowrun: Dragonfall DC, all three games are routinely on sale for less than $10 together.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

No, what he's saying is objectively true. It's that RTwP is far more inherently scalable in both the effort and time you invest into every encounter. And not just between encounters, but even between phases of encounters. You can spend a lot of time, effort and strategizing for difficult bits, and extremely quickly complete easier bits. That's one of its most significant advantages.

Except Torment basically says "ditch the extremely easy filler, include one combat every couple of hours that warrants it." Turn-based is far superior for the really difficult stuff than the clunky, bolted on RTwP where you're pausing every two seconds and then forget you haven't given an order to someone for two rounds.

I mean, I won't deny that Torment doesn't nail the execution - there are a few crises that are superfluous, and turns take way longer than they should, particularly when you're sneaking. But that would be fixable by speeding up the animations and showing all the enemies acting at once if you haven't been spotted so as to not waste the players' time. There's no reason for well-done TBS to be a slog.

Edit: RTwP is also uniquely poorly suited to the alternate win conditions in most of the crises. Try navigating (early game spoilers)

Spoiler

the enemy-fascinating pipes and egg thieving in the first major major crisis of the game. You simply could not do that encounter that way in RTwP. And you wouldn't have been able to do all but like one of the crises I've done since

 

[The Illiterati]

The game has locked up three times on the first unavoidable crisis(peerless). I guess I need to wait for a patch. Thankfully Zelda just arrived!

 

[Purkake4]

The game has locked up three times on the first unavoidable crisis(peerless). I guess I need to wait for a patch. Thankfully Zelda just arrived!

What platform?

 

[Duderz]

So is it still pretty safe to say this is a mess on PS4? Disappointing.