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Toronto police officer guilty of attempted murder, not guilty of 2nd degree murder

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oneils

Member
The logic for the bolded is what I've been saying makes zero sense. How can attempted murder be attempted murder when Yatim is dead? Is it a shrewd move by the crown to reach a compromise? Yes. But I think the compromise comes at a cost by making this more of a legal grey area than it needed to be. And it's critical when we're talking about potentially a precedent-setting case for police officers in Ontario, and Canada. Why the grey area? Because the Criminal Code doesn't really have a section devoted to a situation like Forcillo's. The Criminal Code has some very black/white charges listed, but doesn't take into account a situation where there is a peace officer utilizing excessive force, causing death, at least as far as I know. Even the Criminal Code doesn't go into proper detail when it comes to excessive force on its own, simply stating:



It doesn't go into the degree of excessive force (obviously this case would be excessive just by the volley of shots alone), how a public/peace officer should be punished. Taking all of that into consideration, these reasons related to law application are primarily why I don't agree that this should be an attempted murder charge.

If, instead, we had a situation where Yatim was hit/grazed by a couple of bullets but was still visibly breathing and alive, and Forcillo kept on shooting and missing, then I can see the attempted murder charge making sense because the number of shots in relation to perpetrator status would demonstrate a visible intent to kill but ultimately failing to succeed in his action.

Great post. I take your point, now. It does look as though that granting the jury a choice between the two charges was a compromise. Probably because they weren't confident of a conviction on a regular murder charge (er, or whatever the legal term is ;)).
 

Llyranor

Member
Reading up on the OP, it seems the initial shots (which killed the victim) were justified, but it is the shots AFTER he was already incapacitated that got the cop charged. I'm okay with the verdict and sentence.
 

diaspora

Member
I don't know why people are struggling with the idea of the initial shooting, the guy was on a streetcar threatening passengers with a lethal weapon, the initial volley of shots regardless of whether or not he's a cop isn't something anyone would convict him for.

Reading up on the OP, it seems the initial shots (which killed the victim) were justified, but it is the shots AFTER he was already incapacitated that got the cop charged. I'm okay with the verdict and sentence.

This. I think I can agree that shooting someone who's already down/incapacitated is fucked up- but shooting someone actively threatening someone with a knife is understandable.
 

Onemic

Member
I don't know why people are struggling with the idea of the initial shooting, the guy was on a streetcar threatening passengers with a lethal weapon, the initial volley of shots regardless of whether or not he's a cop isn't something anyone would convict him for.

There was no one else in the streetcar when he was shot
 

Dali

Member
YES!

My country actually has the balls to show that the police are not above the law. Now if only our neighbours to the south could do the same...

This sentencing should probably get is own thread tbh
The cop that raped a bunch of people is going to live the rest of his life in prison iirc.

Sometimes cops actually get convicted here... sometimes.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
...

I really don't know what to say about this.

I'm glad the cop was at least found guilty of something, even if it's kind of a weird ruling.

Suspended with pay though? I side eye the fuck out of that shit. Fire his ass. He committed a crime and was found guilty. My job wouldn't suspend me without pay, that's for sure. I don't think police should get concessions.

I feel bad for the victim's family, though. Stupid to pull a knife, so I understand why the officer would fire shots to defend himself. But then firing off six other shots? What the fuck, man?
 

hobozero

Member
I am not even arguing the verdict anymore. I am more so angry with the conduct of the police officer himself. He was never in danger, him nor any of his fellow officers. Look at the distance between them.

I know you are done arguing, and I don't want to upset you more than you are now, but the distance point you make is fascinating. Conventional wisdom is that within 21 feet, a person with a knife will be able to strike and possibly kill a person with a gun. Have a look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM

Not saying that exactly applies here, I haven't studied the exact details of this case. Just thought you might find that interesting. I was surprised to see the speed at which someone can close that distance and attack.
 
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