Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Everything about this take is horrible holy crap.
Triple H addresses fan frustration with WWE; admits they feel the same way.
- Thread starter Oddduck
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Everything about this take is horrible holy crap.
You had better not just have put Becky on the level of the Bellas while talking up Charlotte as a great wrestler.
dude was fine in no time
he was gone because he was a drug addict who had to find jesus
His back was fucked for like three years. He had the painkiller addiction at the same time but the injury was real, and ended up affecting the WM14 match a lot.
Nothing was wrong with turning Austin heel. That was one of the few good things story-wise from 2001. How they handled the Invasion was the bigger issue.
Basileus777
Member
Even Austin admits that his heel turn didn't work. But it was hardly some huge disaster that they never recovered from.
Everything was wrong with turning him heel. Ask Austin, he's said many times it was a huge mistake and if he could go back in time, he'd stop the turn (and probably tell Owen to drop to his knees, not his ass).
How about 2003?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Both Rock and Austin lost their spark by 2002 anyway.
Point me to the best women's match. I'm not trying to be misogynistic, I have just never seen a great women's match.
Do you mean in WWE, or in general? Because there would be a laundry list in the latter.
I mean in the WWE. NJPW obviously has insane women's matches. I also heard Asuka is in NXT. I don't follow as much anymore so someone can confirm. Should have been more specific in the first post
in retrospect yea rock was great in 03 but he was hated at that time and was dwindling in popularity at the time and Austin turned heel and completely killed himself teaming with Triple H and Vince.
NJPW doesn't have women's matches.
As for great women's matches in WWE, NXT has had a selection of them at the Takeover specials in 2015 alone. Becky v Sasha, Sasha v Bayley in Brooklyn, Sasha v Bayley Iron Man, the Sasha v Bayley v Charlotte v Becky fatal four way, and a fair few good TV matches.
Holy jeez I didn't mean to write NJPW haha. Fucking acronyms. I'll look those matches up though.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They've got a big show available in English next month on the 4th, Wrestle Kingdom 10. You can watch it on NJPW World for just 999 Yen.I'll check it out. If it's not easily available in the US where I can just press play, it probably won't work out
Austin says it was a mistake but it was the most entertaining part of the year easy and ratings did not noticeably fall. Actually, the ratings increased when the invasion happened. It was only after they botched the Invasion that ratings started to fall. Austin turning back face didn't stop them. (May 2002 was when the ratings started going into the 3s with face Austin)
So Austin is wrong.
From listening to the complaints on the Bombcast. It seems like the actual fix for this would be one two hour show on monday nights and one PPV per month right and hire new writers who storyboard? If the bodies and writing can't support three hours you gotta shorten and tighten up your shows.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
If you look at the numbers (in terms of PPV buys, show attendance, not TV ratings that much) you can point to that being a killer. House show attendance doesn't really go back up until Cena in 06-11, and has been down since then.
Of course the ratings increased when the Invasion started, it was built to be the biggest angle of all time. They fucked that up royally of course, and they have never recovered the audience lost since. That angle should have printed money for years, instead it was the end of their big mainstream interest.
But no, Austin turning heel was completely wrong. The audience didn't want to boo him at all, they haven't since about early 1997 frankly. He was still as popular a face as they had, and they squandered it (not to mention a big drop in money for him because turning heel kills your merch sales generally) to not much success. Instead of booing him as a heel, they just tuned out instead, it hurt interest.
Combine that with Rock leaving to do a movie at that time, and never really returning full-time again, always with big gaps before he left for good. They lost both their top two faces at once.
ThreePiMatt
Member
I'm not sure I understand the "make RAW two hours" sentiment. The only difference is that you get two hours of poorly written content instead of three.
Paracelsus
Member
And in 2005 the remnants of good wrestling either died or left or moved to the sidelines, leaving it to the new generation of *.
I agree with you that not having a top face is a problem. That could have been remedied by HHH turning the next night after WM. (People were ready to accept him coming to save the Rock. Instead he joined Austin.) Or by building up one of the newer guys better. There was a PPV in May when Angle, Jericho, and Benoit all lost clean to Undertaker, HHH, and Rock. Then in June, they put Jericho and Benoit together against Austin which made it look like it took the two of them to equal Austin.
It wasn't heel Austin that was bad. It was everything else. Other than RVD getting big, heel Austin was the one consistently entertaining thing I remember from WWE 2001.
But in any case, it wasn't a huge deal. Viewers were still tuned in for the Invasion. Nothing that happened between March 2001 and the invasion drove people away permanently. The Invasion might have drove people away permanently.
This is true. However, it would be a better paced poorly written program. Instead of filling Raw with 3 hours of actual, meaningful content, they'd rather show replays, recaps, and cheesy advertisements/useless segments.to fill up the 3rd hour. It'd still be poorly written, but likely a much tighter package.
BoboBrazil
Member
Raw was horrible at 2 hours. 3 hours just made them do longer matches and feature some wrestlers that wouldn't normally be on the show.
Still better than anything going on right now. Nobody is even close to those guys charisma-wise.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Go back and watch some 1998 RAW episodes. It seems like it was match after match after match, but they were decided so quickly and lacked those 4 minute long "submission attempts". I don't really think there are more matches at 3 hours than there were at 2 hours. I'll even go out on a limb and say that they had more matches during the 2 hour episodes in 1998 than they have now.
BoboBrazil
Member
I'm not talking about 1998 2 hours Raw when the whole thing was entertaining from top to back crash tv style. 2 hour Raws for years before the switch to 3 hours were still horrible shows.
They were rotten in recent years, sure, but they didn't have that horrendous third hour where the crowd is totally dead from being tired, and they have to just crap out some low card matches to fill the time til the inevitable six man main event, or worse, insert an extra 20 minute Authority promo, because they have to stretch their 1 hour of material to 3, instead of just 2.
When three hours was leading to all those long Bryan matches, or Shield six man tags, it was fine. But they're all gone now, and there's nothing that's replaced them.
Paracelsus
Member
2009 RAW was almost as bad as it is now, it was bad. The feud leading into the championship match was stupid, the plot made no sense because HHH deserved to lose yet he retained (shades of WM19) let alone the fact they already had gone through the whole "u berry me in 2004 so I kik you're ars" a year before, all the people involved in the feud sucked, we came from 2008 with more Cena x Triple x Orton. Renny Orlayne vs John Chena was unbearably terrible, and so was the triangle Chena x Edge x Show.
I actually stopped watching wwe on a weekly basis in 2009 and resumed nearly two years later because of the pybomb.
I actually stopped watching wwe on a weekly basis in 2009 and resumed nearly two years later because of the pybomb.
Despite all the fan wankery about how "WWE is for da kedz'" and other excuses, The Meltz noted that the largest demo for WWE was around the 50 age group, largely male.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir...eltzer_on_raw_on_127_the_strongest_age_group/
Essentially it is a company, ruled by a 70 year old making a product for children, but is consumed by 50 year olds.
When Reigns comes out, looking sexy as he always does, then i want you to remember that watching him are 50 year old men, scratching their balls and yelling "PUSH ZIGGLER INSTEAD FFS!"
If nothing major changes, this company will end up on a insignificant network in a few years. I dont care what the WWE Defense Force has to say, that is the trajectory in regards to ratings, demo and attendance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir...eltzer_on_raw_on_127_the_strongest_age_group/
Essentially it is a company, ruled by a 70 year old making a product for children, but is consumed by 50 year olds.
When Reigns comes out, looking sexy as he always does, then i want you to remember that watching him are 50 year old men, scratching their balls and yelling "PUSH ZIGGLER INSTEAD FFS!"
If nothing major changes, this company will end up on a insignificant network in a few years. I dont care what the WWE Defense Force has to say, that is the trajectory in regards to ratings, demo and attendance.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Exactly! They must feed into that nostalgia. Milk the cameos dry with like "Son of Repo Man" or "Son of Rock" etc.
Everything is fine...
Oh shit nXt special soon? Did I miss any since Sasha vs Bayley 2?
No this is the first since that. It's on next Wednesday but in UK time.
UberTag
Member
The only programming the WWE puts out on Monday nights that's compelling is the UpUpDownDown live stream that airs on YouTube before RAW even starts.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
The modern social climate and advertisers.
sponsors and toy manufacturers
even though the ratings were higher back then and you couldn't keep stone cold toys on the shelf
Bubba_Sparks
Member
I just don't know what they can do to be relevant to young kids in today's world. I grew up with the Attitude Era as a kid, but grew out of it as I got older. As I was going through high school I would periodically hear about wrestlers like Kurt Angel, Brock Lesnar and John Cena, but never paid attention to them. I remember when The Ultimate Fighter came on and watching it made me feel like it was a natural evolution for someone who grew up on wrestling. The UFC offers more depth as MMA is a real sport, but also has a good deal of drama and politics. In a way it is kind of like WWE for the reality TV generation. I just don't know how Vince and crew can combat the arrival of the UFC, as I believe the product just isn't interesting any more.
Wtf!!!
He sure sounds like he knows more than everyone involved that's writing WWE today in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57vrW83Dc70
TheWrathOfSean
Member
They need to bring back shoot interviews between matches. Needs that crazy spark. Everything's so stiff.
KurtSloane
Banned
OK, this is the most interesting thing wrestling related I have seen since the RAW period.
Looks excellent.
Just hearing HHH talk about the disconnect of how the women are used on RAW you can just tell he hates it. Seeing Sasha out their must be killing him. Women's wrestling deserves so much more respect like how NXT and other promotions show it.
Vince and the writing team hurts the product so much. This years WM is the first year since 2011 when I started getting back into the product that Iv'e not watched Raw on a weekly basis. I just felt drained watching and seeing talent that should be at the top be regulated to fucking jokes ala Ambrose and the Wyatt Family. Vince can shove Roman down everyone's necks all he likes but I won't take it. NXT, NJPW and Lucha Underground is more than enough.
Vince and the writing team hurts the product so much. This years WM is the first year since 2011 when I started getting back into the product that Iv'e not watched Raw on a weekly basis. I just felt drained watching and seeing talent that should be at the top be regulated to fucking jokes ala Ambrose and the Wyatt Family. Vince can shove Roman down everyone's necks all he likes but I won't take it. NXT, NJPW and Lucha Underground is more than enough.
Even if Trips takes over, I can only see him making the internet fans happy. The casuals don't care about good wrestling, they care about the stars and right now they have none because Vince and his writing crew are complete jokes. The way they completely botched Roman proves that.
Everything. Society has changed alot since the 90s when all the youngens wanted to be real motorcycle riding rebels.
Everything. Society has changed alot since the 90s when all the youngens wanted to be real motorcycle riding rebels.
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