Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Three hours of talking is asking too much.
Triple H addresses fan frustration with WWE; admits they feel the same way.
- Thread starter Oddduck
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Three hours of talking is asking too much.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Bring back Goldberg and give him his streak back. Fuckers.
Or stuff like Marvel movies. Those are kids stuff too that adults enjoy.
The WWE needs to be family friendly. It can't be the snake eating its own tail.
345triangle
Member
here seems like a good place to ask: i was very into wrestling between, say, 2002-2004 (i think of it in terms of smackdown games on the PS2, and here comes the pain was the best.), so that's what i'm familiar with — don't really know anything about the stars etc today unless they've been around for a decade or more.
today WWE announced they're bringing the streaming network to japan in a few weeks. i like the idea! should i even attempt to get back into it or is it just not worth it? if even triple H admits it sucks it must be kind of bad.
today WWE announced they're bringing the streaming network to japan in a few weeks. i like the idea! should i even attempt to get back into it or is it just not worth it? if even triple H admits it sucks it must be kind of bad.
UberTag
Member
Most of the people working in the WWE know just as much as Russo does.
The problem is Vince. There is no solution to that problem.
lol cutting it that short is just stupid, the amount of money they would lose would be ridiculous, Triple H wants it to be 2 hours and so do most fans, if they cut it down it will go to 2 hours.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Russo's never the solution. TNA should've proved that if David Arquette didn't.
billy beane
Banned
I saw Rhyno came back, and they tried to make it a big deal.
Yeah pro wrestling is dead.
Yeah pro wrestling is dead.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Shorten RAW. I'm still shook they thought making it three hours long and having Smackdown was a good idea.
I also expect it's harder to fix things when you don't have a vast pool of talent like Vince did in the nineties. Is there anyone apart from Cena who has the draw/pull of someone like Austin, Rock or even HHH.
They can't tap the Hulk pool any more either...
I also expect it's harder to fix things when you don't have a vast pool of talent like Vince did in the nineties. Is there anyone apart from Cena who has the draw/pull of someone like Austin, Rock or even HHH.
They can't tap the Hulk pool any more either...
UberTag
Member
They've actively gone out of their way to sabotage, maim, alienate and chase away anyone who so much as dared amass any sort of draw/pull that wasn't otherwise intended.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
So keep doing what they are doing and continue to lose ratings? I grew up during the attitude era and didn't watch much wrestling after wcw was bought out. Even if they did go edgier though I still wouldn't watch it. They just have no stars that I care about at all. Kinda damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Jacknapes
Member
WWE has the talent, they are just seriously misused. You would have thought with the likes of John Cena, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins all being out either injured or taking time off that the WWE would finally start pushing other guys.
WWE has a lot of great talented wrestlers (i wish they'd go back to using this word, it's not nasty) that they need to start using. They need to fix creative, because that's where i'd say 1/2 the problem lies. WWE can bring in whomever they want, but if there isn't a decent creative team then they may as well sit on the floor. It's nice seeing the Dudley Boys, Rhyno (he's mostly on NXT helping the talent) and Tommy Dreamer back, heck it was a shock seeing Sting in the WWE (albeit a few years late). If there are no stories to go with, might as well not bother really.
Another part of the problem is Vince McMahon, how that can be solved is him stepping back and letting others take control. We know what Triple H can do with NXT, so let's see what he's capable of with RAW (and without Vince breathing down his neck).
And the final thing i believe needs sorting. The Tag Division is starting to take shape again, which is good. I've always been a fan of Tag team wrestling. The next part that needs sorting is the Womens Division. Start by chucking the term "Diva" out, getting rid of that naff title and bringing back the WWE Womens Championship. WWE has a plethora of talent women, let them be wrestlers. Let them wrestle instead of looking like models whom are scared of a little push (and not a push in wrestling terms). Look at the great eras of womens wrestling, bring back that to the modern day. Let the likes of Charlotte, Paige, Natalia etc show what talent they have.
WWE needs to stop being so predictable, they don't need to go back to the attitude era. They need a bunch of people whom know how to create a good show (writers etc) and are given the freedom to do so. That might help a bit.
WWE has a lot of great talented wrestlers (i wish they'd go back to using this word, it's not nasty) that they need to start using. They need to fix creative, because that's where i'd say 1/2 the problem lies. WWE can bring in whomever they want, but if there isn't a decent creative team then they may as well sit on the floor. It's nice seeing the Dudley Boys, Rhyno (he's mostly on NXT helping the talent) and Tommy Dreamer back, heck it was a shock seeing Sting in the WWE (albeit a few years late). If there are no stories to go with, might as well not bother really.
Another part of the problem is Vince McMahon, how that can be solved is him stepping back and letting others take control. We know what Triple H can do with NXT, so let's see what he's capable of with RAW (and without Vince breathing down his neck).
And the final thing i believe needs sorting. The Tag Division is starting to take shape again, which is good. I've always been a fan of Tag team wrestling. The next part that needs sorting is the Womens Division. Start by chucking the term "Diva" out, getting rid of that naff title and bringing back the WWE Womens Championship. WWE has a plethora of talent women, let them be wrestlers. Let them wrestle instead of looking like models whom are scared of a little push (and not a push in wrestling terms). Look at the great eras of womens wrestling, bring back that to the modern day. Let the likes of Charlotte, Paige, Natalia etc show what talent they have.
WWE needs to stop being so predictable, they don't need to go back to the attitude era. They need a bunch of people whom know how to create a good show (writers etc) and are given the freedom to do so. That might help a bit.
The Bookerman
Member
It has do more to the fact that they have this mattel contract that prohibites them from going PG 13, and also the fact that their biggest draw(Cena) doesn't want to.
But you're also true, times have changed.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
They don't need to go edgier, they just need to do what they're doing with NXT.
Having russo or heyman or some of the other great ideas men back would be nice, but it's not necessary. They have the talent, and as nxt shows, they still have people who know how to book.
Whoever is messing up raw (and we all know who those people are) need to go or stop getting in the way. They need to give the talent a chance to speak for themselves, and stop getting in the commentators ears and making the commentary so terrible.
With raw & smackdown, they have 5 hours to tell stories - more then they ever have, and they're doing the worst job they ever have.
Having russo or heyman or some of the other great ideas men back would be nice, but it's not necessary. They have the talent, and as nxt shows, they still have people who know how to book.
Whoever is messing up raw (and we all know who those people are) need to go or stop getting in the way. They need to give the talent a chance to speak for themselves, and stop getting in the commentators ears and making the commentary so terrible.
With raw & smackdown, they have 5 hours to tell stories - more then they ever have, and they're doing the worst job they ever have.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Jesus. No wonder the decline is as bad as it is.
It's a shame they lost their main competitor, it always did feel like having another semi big organisation around kept them on their toes or at least made it so that they couldn't abuse talent as they've seemingly been doing since WCW collapsed.
But in WWF 1997, he was the solution.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Russo isn't a solution. 1997 was a combination of things, russo was one, talent freedoom was another, commentator excellence was yet another. You don't have Russo run the book, but you have him there. The guys like a fountain of ideas. A lot of them are no good, but he has so damn many the few that are good are probably enough to book multiple feuds.
at the moment the wwe is only booking one feud and struggling mightily with that.
at the moment the wwe is only booking one feud and struggling mightily with that.
Union Carbine
Member
The Attitude era style booking is not sustainable long term.
Violence Jack
Member
I think 3 hours will eventually be cut back to 2. There's no need for a 3 hour wrestling program that doesn't have the star power it used to. Nitro got away with it in the 90s because they had a lot of talented wrestlers, and people ate up the NWO storylines for the most part.
But the main problem is that the WWE really hasn't given us a reason to care about any of these wrestlers. It's piss poor planning on their part. No storylines, no feuds, nothing. Who is the main draw for them, Reigns? The main heel is Shamus? There's no hook to either one of these guys. They don't do enough with their characters to make the fans give a shit.
Vince needs to let go, and realize that his way just doesn't work anymore. But I don't think he cares because he doesn't have any viable competition.
But the main problem is that the WWE really hasn't given us a reason to care about any of these wrestlers. It's piss poor planning on their part. No storylines, no feuds, nothing. Who is the main draw for them, Reigns? The main heel is Shamus? There's no hook to either one of these guys. They don't do enough with their characters to make the fans give a shit.
Vince needs to let go, and realize that his way just doesn't work anymore. But I don't think he cares because he doesn't have any viable competition.
Hipster Cthulhu
Banned
Reminds me that I can't wait for Lucha Underground, and that I need to get that NJPW World subscription.
There is no glass ceiling anymore. Ryder "broke through" and they destroyed him for it.
Because PG isn't the problem
shaowebb
Member
- Kill color commentating and call the actual damned holds and moves of wrestlers.
- Emphasize wrestling over all else and push the more talented folks instead of your typical t-shirt faces.
- Don't pipe in anything to mute someone's pop if they weren't someone you intended to push. They earned it and should be allowed to have it.The audience is telling you what they need more of.
- You have no mid show high spots to pick it up. Invest in a world circuit full of fast paced cruiser weights and just rotate in and out temporary folk from around the global scene and let them wrestler their own style of matches. Book it like a ranked division with points and seeding and it builds to one trophy competition a year. It'll let you test new ideas, new talent and figure out who may or may not work as a permanent assett as well as develop relationships with talent and other leagues to cherry pick. Its also going to guarantee something new every show to look forward to. Plus if you have no one capable of working your faster dudes "like back when no one could work several luchas due to language barriers" it gives you a division to build their reputation within your own promotion without sacrificing any of your own roster's momentum to do so. Plus since its a trophy and no belt you don't have to invest in anyone to carry it and you can always sell the trophy as a way to buy a spot on the regular card after you figure out who to draft each year (if anyone). If you don't want anyone then just have them say after they win the trophy that they wish to continue to travel for awhile and train before they feel they are ready for such a challenge. Win/win.
- Get over the land of the giants. Folks like the "smaller" guys for their talent and speed. If folks want to see a Punk, Danielson, Balor, Neville, Zayn, or whoever on top of the show then do it no questions asked. THEY are the product folks want.
- Your PG shit aint gonna cut it honestly in wrestling. Folks tuned out early 90's late 80's over it being a cartoon and it only ended when folks saw louder action and more serious tones. You got a 3 hour kids show. You wonder why you can't draw in the same numbers as the 90s? Because its hard to have that same edge when you dulled your blade. I'm not saying bring back all the stupid sex stuff which was always fucking dumb. I'm just saying let em get mad, swear, be rude, and bleed if they want to do so for their own character. You'll never get another Stone Cold again otherwise. Just look at other promotions...Lucha Underground isn't going as PG as you and its drama is way better than yours (also its action but I brought that up already). If Lucha Underground competed in your timeslot you'd die. Might wanna take notes in general.
Fixed. For God's sakes, bars and places like BW3's used to buy PPV from WWE back in the attitude era and it'd pack the joint with folks eager to see it. You think it'll fill a bar to see Tyler Breeze and Ziggler stuff up there? How bout Stardust, and King Barrett? No. Too much like a kid's show these days to draw off a PPV from WWE. It'd probably sink attendance on those nights to buy into a PPV at all.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Rofl, really? Hahahaha
Did you know Raw in early 1998 was TV-PG? They only blurred out middle fingers and the word asshole in the tape delayed feeds, not live.
of course back then Soccer moms had to send out their very angry disapproval letters through USPS instead of just posting it on twitter.
Oh yes, let's go back to the Attitude Era..
.. regular drama shows on network TV have more nudity and violence than Attitude Era Raw did. It's no longer special.
What's missing from that era is WCW, who was a competitor that kept each other on their toes. WWE is complacent with no direct TV competitors.
.. regular drama shows on network TV have more nudity and violence than Attitude Era Raw did. It's no longer special.
What's missing from that era is WCW, who was a competitor that kept each other on their toes. WWE is complacent with no direct TV competitors.
spindashing
Banned
PG isn't really the problem. TNA isn't PG and I sure as hell don't applaud them for it.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Can anyone remember anything Byron Saxton has ever said?
spindashing
Banned
9.99......that's it
It's unlikely there will ever be another "WCW". WWE chopped that toe off and it's not going to grow back. The kids have moved onto UFC.
Not sure about nudity because I don't keep up with the new network shows, but that would be a pretty bold statement that the only thing special about the attitude era was nudity and violence. Open sexual subjects in the late 90s were everywhere on network television.
Neverwinter27
Member
What would CM Punk say now?
Indrid Cold1
Member
I hope you have the balls to admit that you just wanted to make a "hur dur white peoplez" post. The current face of the company is a Samoan dude. Before that, was an Armenian guy. The US champion is a Mexican. The most over group in the company are 3 funny, athletic, African Americans. The next most over tag teams are Mexican and Samoan. You are chatting shit.
MarkMclovin
Member
Kids are into UFC these days.
My 2 cents:
It's too boring and too PG
I want crazy ass storylines, I want crazy ass characters, like really, really crazy.
Just look at their top guys, most of them are boring as shit, they lack any personality whatsoever.
They care too much about political correctness. Let someone dress up as IS member and insult everyone. Let someone be a completely racist shit. Play with peoples emotions.
UberTag
Member
The most surprising thing about the Bayley vs. Boss match linked earlier in this thread is that Saxton was the one on play-by-play and he was doing a pretty damn fine job of it.
The problem with Saxton on RAW is that he sucks at color commentary which is essentially the role he's relegated to right now. Three person desk doesn't work with two guys doing play-by-play. Sure he'll learn how Cole does his job directly that way so he can take over someday... but he won't get a chance to shine unless Cole isn't part of that equation. That... and he needs to be able to work with Vince in his headset instead of self-destructing the way he did during that RAW when Brock laid out the rest of the announce desk. And, to be fair, I think Stanford's still better than him but that's clearly not the direction they're going in.
Incidentally, that Stanford-Punk commentary team might well be my favorite of the modern era. Shame it was so short-lived.
What's ironic is that the WWE has a good pool of extremely talented wrestlers who routinely put on high-quality, long matches week in and week out. The problem is, no one really cares because there is no interesting storyline attached to these matches. You can't get excited if someone wins, because they could just job out to the same dude next week. Wins and losses simply do not matter. Remember when Ziggler beat Cena at a PPV? Of course you don't, because that storyline really didn't go anywhere. They do week by week booking, and often drop storylines for no real reason.
When Miz was WWE Champion, he was over and doing the best work of his career at that point. Eventually he lost the title, and what did he do after that? Nothing, absolutely nothing. He got shoved into a tag team with R-Truth months later. They had someone who was good on the mic, good enough in the ring, actually over as a heel, and when he lost the title they had no storyline or plan for him whatsoever. Everyone forgot about him within a few months. This happens all the time. Every now and then we will have an actually interesting storyline that goes nowhere or is completely dropped. Going back to the Miz, the Mizdow stunt double storyline had the most obvious conclusion ever: Sandow gets fed up with the Miz and beats his ass. Everyone wanted to see this happen, and did it? Err, kinda. Sandow eliminated Miz in a battle royal. And then Sandow got eliminated. Then Miz and Sandow had a match on Raw or some shit and Miz won. THAT'S IT. That was the conclusion to their months long storyline where people were dying to see Sandow, who was over, beat down the Miz.
There's really no easy solution to fix everything since you've already trained your audience to not care about anyone since they will not go anywhere and if they do, it's only for a few months before they are shoved into random matches.
When Miz was WWE Champion, he was over and doing the best work of his career at that point. Eventually he lost the title, and what did he do after that? Nothing, absolutely nothing. He got shoved into a tag team with R-Truth months later. They had someone who was good on the mic, good enough in the ring, actually over as a heel, and when he lost the title they had no storyline or plan for him whatsoever. Everyone forgot about him within a few months. This happens all the time. Every now and then we will have an actually interesting storyline that goes nowhere or is completely dropped. Going back to the Miz, the Mizdow stunt double storyline had the most obvious conclusion ever: Sandow gets fed up with the Miz and beats his ass. Everyone wanted to see this happen, and did it? Err, kinda. Sandow eliminated Miz in a battle royal. And then Sandow got eliminated. Then Miz and Sandow had a match on Raw or some shit and Miz won. THAT'S IT. That was the conclusion to their months long storyline where people were dying to see Sandow, who was over, beat down the Miz.
There's really no easy solution to fix everything since you've already trained your audience to not care about anyone since they will not go anywhere and if they do, it's only for a few months before they are shoved into random matches.
The lack of blood isn't just due to PG. It's mostly because of the increased awareness about the dangers of infections and blood-borne diseases. Abdullah the Butcher infected another wrestler with Hep C and there was a case when Bob Orton could have done the same to The Undertaker. It's why referees wear gloves when there's blood and other sports have taken similar measures, like in football when a player is forced off the pitch to get patched up and has to replace any blood stained clothing.
Scarred foreheads also look horrible, especially in HD.
Fourth Storm
Member
I'll be honest, WWE hasn't been the same for me since he left. I'm sure bringing him back now would be an utter disaster, but even the trainwreck which was Russo era WCW, I found quite entertaining. There were alot of things he did right (alongside the bad, such as General Rection). He actually put the belt on Bret for one.
I was listening to a wrestling podcast not too long ago (forget the name. It was quite long and I couldn't get through it), but the one host insisted the then WWF product actually improved after Russo left. The other host disagreed and I'm with the latter. They lost the "anything can happen" aura and started with the goofy backstage style in which the performers act more like it's a t.v. show. Like they'll be spilling secrets backstage and acting like the cameras aren't right there in their face. To me, that was when it started going downhill.
Edit: It was The Lapsed Fan podcast. And yeah, I began tuning in much less frequently around 2002 or so.
Do they have a diverse roster to make that worth anything, though? I would actually say no.
They're thin enough as is for three hour shows. They can't even pack that up decently.
Fourth Storm
Member
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the product once Russo left, but some of the aspects I've come to dislike about it do seem to trace back to this time. The style of the backstage segments was/is a major gripe. Crash TV had gone a bit far. It seemed the title was switching hands weekly (sometimes daily). But shit, I'll take early 1999 WWE over what we have now any day week.
Anyway, if HHH wants to turn things around, he can start by throwing away every damn purple lighting gel in their possession. They even set them up at random spots backstage. It's stupid.
spindashing
Banned
While I understand why the Hardcore Championship isn't a thing anymore, I do miss it.
RIP Crash Holly. He was amazing.
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