Support NeoGAF

[C.Mongler]

What is Donald "no regulations" Trump going to do about it, pass a regulation? He's just upset that the Washington Post has called out his inability to consistently denounce Nazism.

 

[Jombie]

Doesn't he love Walmart?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Donald "not paying taxes makes me smart" Trump

Fuck off a cliff with this bullshit.

 

[Biske]

And d'you know what; this could've been a very easy pitch if it weren't about attacking one business simply for doing well, but trying to galvanise a steadily dying brick and mortar side of retail. But that second quote in the OP is the answer here, he hates Amazon's connections, he cares nothing for any other business than his own.

Yup. As with everything Trump is a fucking idiot

It's hard to argue that some retailers should charge sales tax and others shouldn't, but a "hey, Amazon is a bunch of dicks!!!!" Kind of argument isn't going to do it

 

[nekkid]

That makes them smart

I feel like the conversation would be going a different way if this same thing was pointed out by someone other than Trump.

 

[slit]

Pretty sure I did say that it should be clamped down on in general, just that Amazon should be at the top of the list by dint of being the biggest and therefore most egregious tax avoider.

The difference between big stores and what amazon are doing is big stores used economies of scale. Amazon uses economies of scale and tax avoidance. They can and should be challenged.

That fine, but it's a failure of your gov't not online retailing. Your Gov't are the ones that need to challenge these huge corporations like Apple, Shell, Nestle, etc. that are some of the biggest tax avioders in the world.

 

[Jeffrey]

So why not do something about it. Why is out president a pundit lol. Literally all he does is complain about things. Some are dumb, some have some validity, so why not stop being a bitch and do something?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

That fine, but it's a failure of your gov't not online retailing. Those are the ones that need to challenge these huge corporations like Apple, Shell, Nestle, etc. that are some of the biggest tax avioders in the world.

Yep.

 

[Kthulhu]

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Charles Brandon]

That fine, but it's a failure of your gov't not online retailing. Your Gov't are the ones that need to challenge these huge corporations like Apple, Shell, Nestle, etc. that are some of the biggest tax avioders in the world.

Yes. That is the point.

 

[JettDash]

So why not do something about it. Why is out president a pundit lol. Literally all he does is complain about things. Some are dumb, some have some validity, so why not stop being a bitch and do something?

The only thing Trump is capable of doing is be a whiney bitch and sign things other people came up with.

 

[wazoo]

Genie is out of the bottle so to speak.

Even with Amazon charging sales tax now there is no way to know how much they benefitted during their initial rise for not charging.

We can't exactly go back now like I said. Genie is out of the bottle.

sales tax, VAT, is only a small part of the problem.

corporate taxes is due to be paid where the headquarters is, which in europe is alway in some tax paradisr like luxembourg.

EU has aslked multi billion euros to Aplle for the same reason recently.

 

[DominusLeges]

This is one of those rate occasions where Trump is actually right. Amazon skirts paying any federal taxes and has certainly negatively impacted retailers around the country who do pay them. The answer would be to rework the tax laws and close the loop holes do many of these massive corpsyiobs use to avoid paying any taxes on their income but that's not ever going to happen with a republican controlled congress and a heavily Neo liberal bent in the majority of the Democratic Party.

 

[Kthulhu]

So why not do something about it. Why is out president a pundit lol. Literally all he does is complain about things. Some are dumb, some have some validity, so why not stop being a bitch and do something?

Because he doesn't want to do anything. He wants to make the Washington Post look bad.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

So why not do something about it. Why is out president a pundit lol. Literally all he does is complain about things. Some are dumb, some have some validity, so why not stop being a bitch and do something?

That's why we elected a rich guy right? That way he couldn't be bribed by special interpfftt...HAHAHAHAA

 

[Machina]

Asshole who doesn't like talking about his taxes criticizes others about their taxes. Shameless.

 

[wazoo]

So why not do something about it. Why is out president a pundit lol. Literally all he does is complain about things. Some are dumb, some have some validity, so why not stop being a bitch and do something?

yes, it can only be solved globally, otherwise all companies will be located in tax paradises, and only citizen will be taxed.

 

[StarVigil]

If he's so upset why doesn't he change the law? They only do what's best for the company. That makes them smart!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

This is plainly not true. Amazon are one of the biggest contributors to the BEPS problem.

Is any of that illegal though? The whole issue is that you can't really nail any of these companies down because the law is behind these practices.

 

[MightyKAC]

I find it ironic that a forum that is so rabidly left-wing is so keen to hand-wave these sort of shenanigans away, which are the epitome of rapacious, damaging hyper-capitalism and Donald Trump, the white knight for right wing conservatism is the one pressing the issue. I'm sure he has is own reasons for doing so as many have pointed out, but if he takes Amazon to task, like I wish the UK government would, then does it really matter?

If this is your take away from what you've read here then you're honestly only seeing what you want to see.

No one is hand waving anything. We WANT to see the system changed so that other companies like this can't exploit tax loop holes and get away with the kind of bullshit that Amazon or Apple or a bunch of other companies pull on a regular basis.

But do you REALLY think that Trump gives a shit about corporate fair play?

And also, going after Amazon for this specifically, would be like the NBA going after Stef Curry for abusing 3 pointers and creating an noncompetitive environment.

Punishing the players when the game itself is rigged solves nothing when the next guy can just do the same thing all over again.

 

[slit]

Yes. That is the point.

Well ok, but I only brought it up because you brought up Amazon's more efficient business model as the reason they should be singled out first. All that does is stifle competition and allow the "old guard" to continue to rob everyone blind.

 

[wazoo]

Is any of that illegal though? The whole issue is that you can't really nail any of these companies down because the law is behind these practices.

it is even worse for digital goods. valve is a terrible no-corporate tax payer.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Is any of that illegal though? The whole issue is that you can't really nail any of these companies down because the law is behind these practices.

Whether it is legal or not is not generally an easy question to answer. As a practitioner in this area, I can tell you that in many matters pertaining to taxation, who is within the law and who is without comes down to complex arguments, interpretation and the decision of a court. My guess is that, if Amazon were taken to task on these matters, the eventual outcome would be a negotiation where Amazon would pay billlions more in tax but not as many billions as the IRS would like them to.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Well ok, but I only brought it up because you brought up Amazon's more efficient business model as the reason they should be singled out first. All that does is stifle competition and allow the "old guard" to continue to rob everyone blind.

But their efficient business model is partly based on paying less taxes

If this is your take away from what you've read here then you're honestly only seeing what you want to see.

No one is hand waving anything. We WANT to see the system changed so that other companies like this can't exploit tax loop holes and get away with the kind of bullshit that Amazon or Apple or a bunch of other companies pull on a regular basis.

But do you REALLY think that Trump gives a shit about corporate fair play?

And also, going after Amazon for this specifically, would be like the NBA going after Stef Curry for abusing 3 pointers and creating an noncompetitive environment.

Punishing the players when the game itself is rigged solves nothing when the next guy can just do the same thing all over again.

I don't give two fucks about why Trump wants to do something (at least not in this case) just so long as it is done.

And your analogy is not really true, maybe if Steph Curry used some kind of cyborg arm to make his 3 pointers it would be. A cyborg arm that could be outlawed by the NBA thereby setting precedent for all other players wanting to do the same thing.

 

[JettDash]

Amazon does pay income taxes. But they aren't all that profitable for how big they are and since taxes are paid on profits not revenue, it isn't going to be all that much.

I don't give two fucks about why Trump wants to do something (at least not in this case) just so long as it is done

He isn't going to do shit because he doesn't actually give a shit.

 

[M3d10n]

Maybe they need to be... regulated?

 

[slit]

But their efficient business model is partly based on paying less taxes

And so has most more efficient business models that came before it. Why does that matter?

 

[VariantX]

He's free to work with congress to introduce a law to close those tax loopholes for online retailers. But we all know this aint got a damn thing to do with any tax loopholes.

 

[wazoo]

Amazon does pay income taxes. But they aren't all that profitable for how big they are and since taxes are paid on profits not revenue, it isn't going to be all that much.



He isn't going to do shit because he doesn't actually give a shit.

amazon is very poor, that is why his boss is only worth 80 billions dollars

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Amazon is only hurting businesses that were susceptible to any online retailer moving in with a consumer friendly online store front. Brick and mortar stores dragged their feet in offering a great online storefront and allowed themselves to fall behind. Amazon is not responsible for WalMart's terrible online storefront and for that matter in store experience.

Regardless his reasons for attacking Amazon I think this continued attack on Amazon will alienate part of his base. A lot of Republicans live in rural areas where finding speciality and even common items like books is hard, and before Amazon they would have to drive hours out of their way to get those things. It doesn't even make political sense to do this. This is a sad-petty-old man being sad and petty.

 

[Waylon Drums]

If only it were possible to tax the cyber.

 

[always crazy bacon]

Just today he was praising Walmart who have changed the retail landscape just as much. But that's OK becuse Carl Douglas is a nice guy.

 

[JettDash]

amazon is very poor, that is why his boss is only worth 80 billions dollars

Jeff Bezos's net worth isn't dependent on much profit Amazon makes, rather the stock price times the number of share he owns.

 

[wazoo]

Jeff Bezos's net worth isn't dependent on much profit Amazon makes, rather the stock price times the number of share he owns.

and the stock price depends on profit prevision which are higher when corporates tax are almost zero, no ?

 

[JettDash]

and the stock price depends on profit prevision which are higher when corporates tax are almost zero, no ?

Stock price is whatever people are willing to pay for it.

 

[wazoo]

trump is hypocritical, republicans dream of zero corporate tax world.

still this is a big issue if you care about public services

 

[Charles Brandon]

And so has most more efficient business models that came before it. Why does that matter?

Because it's an unfair advantage...this is becoming circular

 

[mnannola]

Amazon should immediately come out and say they will pay sales tax in every state that collects sales tax as soon as Trump releases his tax returns

Spoiler

They already do this

 

[slit]

Because it's an unfair advantage...this is becoming circular

Uh, no it's not an unfair advantage. If Amazon is taking advantage of loopholes that others do you can't really call it unfair just because Amazon has less assets to tax.

 

[MightyKAC]

But their efficient business model is partly based on paying less taxes



I don't give two fucks about why Trump wants to do something (at least not in this case) just so long as it is done.

And your analogy is not really true, maybe if Steph Curry used some kind of cyborg arm to make his 3 pointers it would be. A cyborg arm that could be outlawed by the NBA thereby setting precedent for all other players wanting to do the same thing.

Soooo then you're just gonna ignore the rest of my post then about it not mattering that you take Amazon to task on this if the rules stay as exploitable as they are?

Is it that you just wanna see Amazon pay some government a few billion dollars as punishment and then go on conducting business as usual?

Because that's about all that will happen unless we take a good long look at why Amazon was able to do what it did in the first place and change it.

 

[BlackGhost]

Probably more about the Washington post and all the articles about him.

"the Amazon Washington Post" in his words

 

[Mondrian]

Here's to hoping some WaPo-OpPo is dropping soon

 

[JettDash]

I just looked at my latest Amazon order and I didn't pay any sales tax on it even though it shipped from their warehouse in the same state.

I guess because it was "fulfilled by Amazon". You know where it is someone else's product but Amazon stores it in their warehouse, takes orders/payment, and ships.

They should probably collect taxes on those orders.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I pay sales tax on everything i buy on amazon.

So does everyone in the US. He used a similar critique a month or two ago and was wrong then, but when you're the worst president in well over 100 years who has time to learn or get things right. His thin skin needs to be avenged and why let facts or logic get in the way of that.

On the plus side, Mueller gets closer and closer to burying this buffoon everyday.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

But their efficient business model is partly based on paying less taxes



I don't give two fucks about why Trump wants to do something (at least not in this case) just so long as it is done.

And your analogy is not really true, maybe if Steph Curry used some kind of cyborg arm to make his 3 pointers it would be. A cyborg arm that could be outlawed by the NBA thereby setting precedent for all other players wanting to do the same thing.

Lol, their not only business model is not getting traded online. Many states were changed to now force them to collect tax so by your logic they should be a Trainwreck on the brink of failure right now.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I just looked at my latest Amazon order and I didn't pay any sales tax on it even though it shipped from their warehouse in the same state.

I guess because it was "fulfilled by Amazon". You know where it is someone else's product but Amazon stores it in their warehouse, takes orders/payment, and ships.

They should probably collect taxes on those orders.

Why? They're not the seller, they can't force a seller to collect taxes when they have no legal obligation to.

Are you this outaged over eBay not collecting taxes on orders? Because it's literally the same as that, it's only a marketplace, not the seller.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Uh, no it's not an unfair advantage. If Amazon is taking advantage of loopholes that others do you can't really call it unfair just because Amazon has less assets to tax.

loopholes are an unfair advantage by definition.

Soooo then you're just gonna ignore the rest of my post then about it not mattering that you take Amazon to task on this if the rules stay as exploitable as they are?

Is it that you just wanna see Amazon pay some government a few billion dollars as punishment and then go on conducting business as usual?

Because that's about all that will happen unless we take a good long look at why Amazon was able to do what it did in the first place and change it.

No you miss the point, if Amazon is taken to task it sets precedent for other similar cases.

Lol, their not only business model is not getting traded online. Many states were changed to now force them to collect tax so by your logic they should be a Trainwreck on the brink of failure right now.

I'm afraid I find this incomprehensible

 

[JettDash]

Why? They're not the seller, they can't force a seller to collect taxes when they have no legal obligation to.

Are you this outaged over eBay not collecting taxes on orders? Because it's literally the same as that, it's only a marketplace, not the seller.

Ebay doesn't store products for vendors and then ship them in Ebay boxes.

 

[Charles Brandon]

For clarity, I am not talking about sales tax or property tax, I am talking about the routing of US and EU profits through Luxembourg.

 

[curls]

Not wrong - large online monopolies have harmed small local enterprises. Unfortunately with all the PR and regressive social policy screwups Trump & chumps have made this will just get lost.

As with Trump and his smart comment in the debates - bugger him too. 🖕

I am suspicious of the WaPo and its intel 'leaks' too. 🕵️