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[Specialmias]

???? Whut?

My family is blonde and blue eyed.

Source: am Puerto Rican

 

[Takamura-San]

My family is blonde and blue eyed.

Source: am Puerto Rican

I think you misread my "whut?"

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Trump has his very own Katrina unfolding right now, but Americans don't care, because Puerto Rico is brown people.

Apparently you didn't care enough to know Puerto Rico is 75% white Hispanic.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

I think the bigger problem is that most Americans likely don't realize that Puerto Rico is part of America

My dad was born in PR and every time he flies he gets asked for his green card

So yeah..

 

[NH Apache]

US shipping operators. Gives them control of all inter-US shipping routes by preventing foreign ships from carrying goods between US ports. Which is silly protectionism at best — who really cares if a foreign ship makes a delivery to New York, then picks up new cargo and takes it directly to Houston if they can save money by doing so versus leaving the work for a US-flagged ship — but for small outlying territories like Puerto Rico it's completely destructive. A foreign ship basically can't dock in Puerto Rico without losing its ability to then go directly to the American mainland, so they all opt to go to the mainland and drop any goods for Puerto Rico off to be carried there by American ships.

It's also about he country's shipbuilding industry. The US ships are held to a higher standard staffed by US citizens. Without the Jones act, the commercial US shipbuilding industry would be more crippled than it currently is.

According to NPR radio this morning, the problem isn't ships or goods arriving, it is moving the goods inland.

Unpopular opinion, but the Jones act needs to stay in place. However, exceptions for protectorates need to be added. That would reduce the taxes levied on the US citizens in PR. The act also gives benefits to US seamen. Pretty much every country has a similar law to keep the industry together.

Edit: for perspective, it took 7 days for the port of New Orleans to receive their first ship post Katrina.

 

[Steel]

Apparently you didn't care enough to know Puerto Rico is 75% white Hispanic.

To be fair, Trump probably doesn't either.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

In what world does this make any sense?

 

[Steejee]

It's also about he country's shipbuilding industry. The US ships are held to a higher standard staffed by US citizens. Without the Jones act, the commercial US shipbuilding industry would be more crippled than it currently is.

According to NPR radio this morning, the problem isn't ships or goods arriving, it is moving the goods inland.

Unpopular opinion, but the Jones act needs to stay in place. However, exceptions for protectorates need to be added. That would reduce the taxes levied on the US citizens in PR. The act also gives benefits to US seamen. Pretty much every country has a similar law to keep the industry together.

Edit: for perspective, it took 7 days for the port of New Orleans to receive their first ship post Katrina.

Making the New Orleans ports accessible was less critical though. PR relies wholesale on sea and air ports for goods. New Orleans you could bring things in by truck, so you didn't need the port functioning for the initial aftermath.

 

[NH Apache]

Making the New Orleans ports accessible was less critical though. PR relies wholesale on sea and air ports for goods. New Orleans you could bring things in by truck, so you didn't need the port functioning for the initial aftermath.

Absolutely and I agree. I was only trying to give perspective on the port status.

 

[Takamura-San]

It's also about he country's shipbuilding industry. The US ships are held to a higher standard staffed by US citizens. Without the Jones act, the commercial US shipbuilding industry would be more crippled than it currently is.

According to NPR radio this morning, the problem isn't ships or goods arriving, it is moving the goods inland.

Unpopular opinion, but the Jones act needs to stay in place. However, exceptions for protectorates need to be added. That would reduce the taxes levied on the US citizens in PR. The act also gives benefits to US seamen. Pretty much every country has a similar law to keep the industry together.

Edit: for perspective, it took 7 days for the port of New Orleans to receive their first ship post Katrina.

How can you reconcile that? If brazil can't ship directly to PR, how can you mitigate the cost of shipping to the US and then from an US ship to PR?

If they trust the Brazilian ship to deliver to the US, why couldn't it ship directly to PR? Outside of tacking on an expense that only benefits US ships, but harms the PR consumer?

 

[Shake Appeal]

Apparently you didn't care enough to know Puerto Rico is 75% white Hispanic.

"White Hispanic" people—when not explicitly European—are "brown" to many, if not most, Americans, is exactly my point. "White Hispanic" means nothing if you're from a poor part of the Caribbean, Central or South America. Once you open your mouth and speak Spanish...

People keep fixating on "Americans don't care because it's not a state" as the reason for the island's studious neglect and forgetting the very fucking reason Puerto Rico is not a state—which is that America has feared their "cultural difference" since 1898:

If those possessions are inhabited by alien races, differing from us in religion, customs, laws, methods of taxation, and modes of thought, the administration of government and justice, according to Anglo-Saxon principles, may for a time be impossible.

For a time = more than a century. Guess what "Anglo-Saxon principles" was code for. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_Cases

 

[numble]

How can you reconcile that? If brazil can't ship directly to PR, how can you mitigate the cost of shipping to the US and then from an US ship to PR?

If they trust the Brazilian ship to deliver to the US, why couldn't it ship directly to PR? Outside of tacking on an expense that only benefits US ships, but harms the PR consumer?

That’s not what the Jones Act is about. A Brazilian ship can ship from Brazil to PR. A Brazilian ship cannot ship from Florida to PR.

 

[NH Apache]

How can you reconcile that? If brazil can't ship directly to PR, how can you mitigate the cost of shipping to the US and then from an US ship to PR?

If they trust the Brazilian ship to deliver to the US, why couldn't it ship directly to PR? Outside of tacking on an expense that only benefits US ships, but harms the PR consumer?

I'm not sure if you read my whole post but I believe exceptions for territories and protectorates should be added. There will always be higher costs for island nations due to the necessary importation of goods that the island does not create.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's also about he country's shipbuilding industry. The US ships are held to a higher standard staffed by US citizens. Without the Jones act, the commercial US shipbuilding industry would be more crippled than it currently is.

According to NPR radio this morning, the problem isn't ships or goods arriving, it is moving the goods inland.

Unpopular opinion, but the Jones act needs to stay in place. However, exceptions for protectorates need to be added. That would reduce the taxes levied on the US citizens in PR. The act also gives benefits to US seamen. Pretty much every country has a similar law to keep the industry together.

Edit: for perspective, it took 7 days for the port of New Orleans to receive their first ship post Katrina.

Having to ship stuff from China, to California, then back to Hawaii just wastes time, energy and money. There's no reason the ship couldn't just stop at Hawaii before continuing to California, other than it's illegal.

It's subsidizing a failing industry via hurting Hawaii and PR's economies.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's also about he country's shipbuilding industry. The US ships are held to a higher standard staffed by US citizens. Without the Jones act, the commercial US shipbuilding industry would be more crippled than it currently is.

According to NPR radio this morning, the problem isn't ships or goods arriving, it is moving the goods inland.

Unpopular opinion, but the Jones act needs to stay in place. However, exceptions for protectorates need to be added. That would reduce the taxes levied on the US citizens in PR. The act also gives benefits to US seamen. Pretty much every country has a similar law to keep the industry together.

Edit: for perspective, it took 7 days for the port of New Orleans to receive their first ship post Katrina.

It just another prime example of protectionism hurts everyone in the long run.

 

[NH Apache]

Having to ship stuff from China, to California, then back to Hawaii just wastes time, energy and money.

It's subsidizing a failing industry via hurting Hawaii and PR's economies.

How is it failing? I'm not sure you get the concept of the Act. You can ship from China to Hawaii.

It just another prime example of protectionism hurts everyone in the long run.

It is protectionism but

A recent study by the United States Maritime Administration found that more than 107,000 workers are employed in the nation’s private shipyards, and the industry supports more than 400,000 jobs across the county – in all 50 states – and generates $23.9 billion in income and $36 billion worth of goods and services every year.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...act-provides-essential-benefits-to-a-maritime

 

[Shadybiz]

Having to ship stuff from China, to California, then back to Hawaii just wastes time, energy and money. There's no reason the ship couldn't just stop at Hawaii before continuing to California, other than it's illegal.

It's subsidizing a failing industry via hurting Hawaii and PR's economies.

...China to Hawaii is fine. China to California is fine.

A non-US shipping company shipping from Hawaii to California, say, would not be fine. Or in this case, from say Miami to PR.

 

[MaulerX]

Make no mistake, the Jones Act is not something that severly affects Puerto Rico only. It affects Hawaii and Alaska as well. Which is why over the years some politicians (McCain comes to mind) have tried to completely abolish it. The problem is that, as Trump said yesterday, those people in the industry don't want it removed. At this point it has zero to do with the quality is shipments and what not. It's nothing more than a monetary situation I'm which the shipping industry doesn't want to let go of the $$$.

 

[dallow_bg]

Apparently you didn't care enough to know Puerto Rico is 75% white Hispanic.

lol
This means nothing to the majority of people here.

 

[Rentahamster]

...China to Hawaii is fine. China to California is fine.

A non-US shipping company shipping from Hawaii to California, say, would not be fine. Or in this case, from say Miami to PR.

I'm not sure what your counterpoint is here...

 

[Takamura-San]

That’s not what the Jones Act is about. A Brazilian ship can ship from Brazil to PR. A Brazilian ship cannot ship from Florida to PR.

Interesting, I'll do further research. One of the things that I heard often at the island is that we couldn't do business with other countries if we didn't use US ships. But I'll stand corrected if that is not the case.

 

[Not]

10 days of decency

Well, bully for you, you rancid tangerine of a racist.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

...China to Hawaii is fine. China to California is fine.

A non-US shipping company shipping from Hawaii to California, say, would not be fine. Or in this case, from say Miami to PR.

China->Hawaii->California doesn't work. So the company doesn't stop in Hawaii, and now the company needs to unload the ship in CA, put Hawaii's shipment back on another boat, and send it back to Hawaii, when it could have just stopped on the way. That same cargo ship could have also carried stuff from California to Hawaii on its way back to China.

This seems like a stupid waste of resources. It costs Hawaii and territories billions every year.

 

[Peltz]

Trump has his very own Katrina unfolding right now, but Americans don't care, because Puerto Rico is brown people.

Eh... I think everyone cares. I don't know a single person who doesn't care about PR.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

Eh... I think everyone cares. I don't know a single person who doesn't care about PR.

Do you just stay in your room all day? Unless you live in PR you know at least one person that doesn’t care

Otherwise the president wouldn’t be posting about football a week later. The pressure from everyone telling him to stfu and help PR would have made him do his job

 

[PdotMichael]

How is it failing? I'm not sure you get the concept of the Act. You can ship from China to Hawaii.



It is protectionism but



http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...act-provides-essential-benefits-to-a-maritime

The USA barely has any shipyards with shipbuilding capacities left most of the private shipyards are typical repair shipyards of various types, so the combination of low shipbuilding capacities and the lack of international competitiveness, which lead to high ship costs, are the reasons why the USA is running an old, outdated and expensive fleet.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

It's not about identifying. It's a fact. Are you forgetting that the US took PR from Spain? They're mostly white there.

???? Whut?

Plenty of very light skinned Puerto Ricans and they come from Spaniards who are also white.

Well forgive me.

Never got to go and all the Ricans I know and everybody on the news is brown like my gma.

I don't think it's a hard mistake to make.

 

[manngc]

10 days of decency

Well, bully for you, you rancid tangerine of a racist.

This is an empty political move by the administration designed to shut up the people demanding that the Jones Act be waived. It's a temporary 10 day waiver (the one for Harvey was originally a week), which does not address the bottleneck for the island (that stuff isn't getting out of the Ports). The DHS original said that the Ports are the issue, not the ships, and saw no reason to waive the Jones Act. Clearly the last two days of hammering of the Jones Act caused this but the technical justification for not granting it still stands.

This waiver will have near zero effect but will appease those asking for the waiver, making the administration look good. The call to repeal the Jones Act needs to be louder because the long recovery for the island will be hamstrung if it's not removed.

 

[Shadybiz]

I'm not sure what your counterpoint is here...

The person I was responding to was not aware that foreign shipping companies could ship to Hawaii.

China->Hawaii->California doesn't work. So the company doesn't stop in Hawaii, and now the company needs to unload the ship in CA, put Hawaii's shipment back on another boat, and send it back to Hawaii, when it could have just stopped on the way. That same cargo ship could have also carried stuff from California to Hawaii on its way back to China.

This seems like a stupid waste of resources. It costs Hawaii and territories billions every year.

I said China to Hawaii, AND China to California....not China to Hawaii to California. Those are not the same thing.

Edit: And China to Hawaii to California, I believe would be fine too, as long as the ship didn't pick up goods intended for California in Hawaii and take them to California .

 

[NH Apache]

The USA barely has any shipyards with shipbuilding capacities left most of the private shipyards are typical repair shipyards of various types, so the combination of low shipbuilding capacities and the lack of international competitiveness, which lead to high ship costs, are the reasons why the USA is running an old, outdated and expensive fleet.

We cannot compete with slave-esque labor in Qatar, China, and other similar countries. Thats simply a reality and not an indicator of a failing industry. Our ships are held to a higher operational, environmental, and technological standard. We have a significant amount of yards on the east, west, and south coasts that are very capable of new construction and repair.

Our fleet can be older because our ships are designed for a longer life, part of the environmental regs.

The person I was responding to was not aware that foreign shipping companies could ship to Hawaii.



I said China to Hawaii, AND China to California....not China to Hawaii to California. Those are not the same thing.

Edit: And China to Hawaii to California, I believe would be fine too, as long as the ship didn't pick up goods intended for California in Hawaii and take them to California .

Yup, that's allowed. Customs would be watching like a hawk tho

 

[PdotMichael]

We cannot compete with slave-esque labor in Qatar, China, and other similar countries. Thats simply a reality and not an indicator of a failing industry. Our ships are held to a higher operational, environmental, and technological standard. We have a significant amount of yards on the east, west, and south coasts that are very capable of new construction and repair.

Our fleet can be older because our ships are designed for a longer life, part of the environmental regs.

This is all wrong. I don't even know where to start. Patriotism gone wrong, I don't know.

 

[NH Apache]

This is all wrong. I don't even know where to start. Patriotism gone wrong, I don't know.

What? I've been in this industry for a long time and worked domestically and overseas. I board ships regularly with ship agents. It was a part of my job to look at the industry.

So, just saying it is all wrong is absolutely absurd tbh. CFR dictate environmental standards that ships flagged from Maldives, for example, don't have to adhere to as well as crew accoms and benefits.

Pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Tonedeff]

I understand the logic behind the Jones Act, as far as it goes, but in emergency situations, waiving this shit should be damn near automatic. Especially for our island territories

 

[PdotMichael]

What? I've been in this industry for a long time and worked domestically and overseas. I board ships regularly with ship agents. It was a part of my job to look at the industry.

So, just saying it is all wrong is absolutely absurd tbh. CFR dictate environmental standards that ships flagged from Maldives, for example, don't have to adhere to as well as crew accoms and benefits.

Pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about.

Why should a non US ship follows US federal laws? CFR doesn't dictates stricter environmental standards than what the rest of the world uses - MARPOL is sure great.

 

[NH Apache]

Why should a non US ship follows US federal laws? CFR doesn't dictates stricter environmental standards than what the rest of the world uses - MARPOL is sure great.

33 CFR 151 includes marpol and additional crriteria. They don't adhere to the same standards, the US criteria is more strict. We're talking in circcles at this point, I'm out.

 

[NullPointer]

He said the waiver was approved after it was determined that doing so was in the interest of national defense.

So much for empathy.

 

[PdotMichael]

33 CFR 151 includes marpol and additional crriteria. They don't adhere to the same standards, the US criteria is more strict. We're talking in circcles at this point, I'm out.

It's sure better that you are out. Also your posts is a fine explanation why you were lobbying for the Jonas Act.

 

[trembli0s]

Why should a non US ship follows US federal laws? CFR doesn't dictates stricter environmental standards than what the rest of the world uses - MARPOL is sure great.

Yes, let's simply support the lowest common denominator for environmental and labor standards. What could go wrong?