Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I'm not really trying to argue with you I'm just discussing.
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Trump calls for ban on Muslim immigration
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I'm not really trying to argue with you I'm just discussing.
No, Sharia law can contain anything. It just means it is on the basis of Islam. At least read the Wikipedia article on the subject lol
Here made it easy for you
Well, having to be based on and compliant with the unchanging, perfect word of God, as expressed in Islamic doctrinal sources, certainly does limit the flexibility of Shari'ah's possible manifestations significantly.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law
I did lol
That poll I posted had lots of disagreements. Doesn't change that there are a substantial amount that agree on the bad stuff.
The point I was making is that there's little use in using things like this to propagate xenophobia and racism, which I could be inclined to think you are doing here, by posting these things in a thread about Trump wanting to ban Muslims from entering the country. I'm struggling to see the connection, and trying to figure out if this is a feigned way of you supporting his stance, without having the actual courage to come out and say it.
And whilst Sharia has guidelines and example rules and laws, it is not completely pre determined, and allows for adaptability depending on societal needs, which is why Muslim countries that practice Sharia have differences in laws and the severity of the application of punishment in the first place, Eg Tunisia, Malaysia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Maldives etc.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Fair enough. Was fairly confusing though.
Fwiw, I do think culture does create these problems too. Isolate someone in a culture and when they're exposed to something else it becomes a shock to them. Which is why I have a problem with fundamentalist islamic countries, but closing them off entirely isn't the solution, if anything it's the problem.
Not to say intermingling with different cultures is the end all be all solution. For example, the rise of fundamentalist islam in malaysia from a fear-mongering, corrupt government is especially distressing to me seeing that I have many relatives in that country.
Fwiw, I do think culture does create these problems too. Isolate someone in a culture and when they're exposed to something else it becomes a shock to them. Which is why I have a problem with fundamentalist islamic countries, but closing them off entirely isn't the solution, if anything it's the problem.
Not to say intermingling with different cultures is the end all be all solution. For example, the rise of fundamentalist islam in malaysia from a fear-mongering, corrupt government is especially distressing to me seeing that I have many relatives in that country.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
"When all else fails, accuse them of some straight up Grade-A bullshit!"
There are disagreements, I see that, but the polls ask which parts do they agree with.
Veritigo_X
Member
Trump was on the morning news shows this morning going over his plan.
https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/674212930255257600
On another show, the host repeatedly asked him if Japanese internment was against American values and Trump wouldn't answer the question.
https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/674212930255257600
On another show, the host repeatedly asked him if Japanese internment was against American values and Trump wouldn't answer the question.
Apparently, the source of this numbers is not reputable at all. This "think tank" seems in fact to be rather crazy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy
I posted results from a similar Pew survey earlier. They still show some areas of concern, but it's not nearly as bad as Trump makes it out to be. At least not when it comes to American Muslims. You could certainly find such numbers in certain Muslim-majority countries, but Trump was specifically referring to American Muslims. The "support extremism" figure might still be something to be worth looking into. But it's also a vague question.
In fact, a polling of 1%-7% for the extreme to extreme-leaning position is something that you'd probably see on any question, especially when it is formulated rather vaguely. If you'd ask people whether they could sympathize with Hitler or not, you'd probably manage to achieve similar figures.
By the way, where are these Pew polls that Trump is claiming to cite? The actual Pew poll results I've found actually contradicts what he claimed Pew polls were saying...
/edit: It's probably this.
At the very least, he is conflating "support" with "support of violence".
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Which isn't really that much? 4% (35% of 12%) being religious loonies isn't that high.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Yeah, I see that now. These statistics still don't convince me that there isn't at least reason for some concern though.
That's the model Islamic country is what my point is. That's about as low as it gets.
FonkyByNature
Member
I see retarded claims by Trump everyday. I'm starting to believe it's all a joke now because i can't believe he means what he says. This is racists and xenophobic as fuck man.
What has this got to do with anything? Trump logic is that all muslims are guilty based on far-right poll. A group of people being ok with Sharia doesnt mean they want to force it and implement it, but then again, what has this got to do with Trump's racist remarks? Do you feel he's justified?
Interfectum
Member
Yeah he's getting so bad I almost believe he's just seeing how far he can push the envelope before people turn against him.
A lot people agree with him on common sense solutions !
Well I apologise if I misconstrued your intent. In the last few weeks there's been a lot of unusual posts being randomly brought in to threads in weird ways. Eg there was a GAF thread about Islamaphobia in the US, and a couple of posters randomly made posts with links to stuff like ISIS throwing people off buildings etc, with no explanation, context or follow up post. Just seemed a bit strange....
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
And? Do you think religious loonies will die out entirely? I'm sure there are places in the US that wishes that they can still lynch someone. Why would you let an incredibly minority dictate your views on the majority?
A model just shows what is possible, a model doesn't imply perfection nor that it has reached any sort of ceiling. Your argument is rather poor in that regard.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
The polls say they support the laws. They're fairly specific with those questions.
lol no
There are much higher percentages is what I'm saying. It's not an incredible minority when you look at the other countries in the survey.
I didn't imply perfection. I'm saying that's about the best there is right now.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Thing is, quite a number of those countries literally has islam as the rule of the land. Of course they're going to be different compared to a largely islamic but secular state like turkey.
Which brings me back to my original point.
Which brings me back to my original point.
What has this got to do with Trump remarks and how is this information useful? Explain the link please.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I'm discussing what I'm discussing, devoid of Trump's remarks. If there was a better place to discuss it I would.
I can't keep up with all these Trump comments. I don't know what's more worrying, the fact that this lunatic can be anywhere near the Presidential Election, or the cheering from the crowds watching him speak.
The only good thing to come out of this is that he will never get near being President. Thank fuck for that. As a non-American it's not really my place to say who should and shouldn't be your President, but for the love of everything sensible, please shut him up. He sounds like a mad preacher you see on the street, announcing the arrival of the impending apocalypse. How long till he thinks the West should start dropping A-bombs on Syria?
The only good thing to come out of this is that he will never get near being President. Thank fuck for that. As a non-American it's not really my place to say who should and shouldn't be your President, but for the love of everything sensible, please shut him up. He sounds like a mad preacher you see on the street, announcing the arrival of the impending apocalypse. How long till he thinks the West should start dropping A-bombs on Syria?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Watching CNN right now. They've got Trump on the phone. They're eviscerating him.
"Security experts say that banning all Muslims do nothing to help, and everything to hurt. These experts think this idea is stupid. It's stupid."
"Security experts say that banning all Muslims do nothing to help, and everything to hurt. These experts think this idea is stupid. It's stupid."
DragonSworne
Banned
It's stupid for a number of reasons, but not because "experts" disagree with Trump.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Just quoting what the host said.
I agree that there is cause for concern when talking about the views of conservative Muslims, Islamists, and Jihadists world-wide, because their numbers are not insignificant. However, the right way to deal with that is to campaign for support of liberal Muslims, to promote secular/liberal models of religious expression in Muslim communities, and to honestly problematize the doctrinal/theological issues that are at odds with a modern liberal society. (Even though I believe that the intellectual basis for that kind of theology unsatisfying and thus not robust enough against criticism from conservatives. But it's the best there is.) Which is why I see, for instance, Muslim immigration from countries like Afghanistan and Iraq to Europe as an opportunity.
What Trump is doing, aside from generally making the conversations on this issue toxic, is shitting on those Muslims we need to support by painting them all with a broad brush.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Oh believe me dude, I'm 100% against Trump in what he's proposing. I agree with you.
Modest Mauser
Member
RPGCrazied
Member
I actually agree with him, which I normally never do. Kudos.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Everyone knows that if a muslim lies they instantly get warped into the dimension of non-existence-existence.
It's a fool proof plan
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Someone posted a poll yesterday showing pretty big support in the GOP to make Islam illegal. What he's saying is not that crazy if you look at the polls.
RustyNails
Member
Trump: ur stupid!
Veritigo_X
Member
That doesn't really matter for his supporters (or Republicans in general, really). You'll probably need Fox News and right wing talk shows digging into him for it to make a difference.
Yeah. The months before the election would be perfect for that. I'd be surprised if terrorists aren't looking into opportunities to do exactly that.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
I've seen too many political thrillers to not be jaded into thinking ISIS might not even be the real perpetrators. Ohh but they will take the blame.
It's kind of scary how this picture is starting to reflect the attitudes a lot of people behind Trump..."In accordance with our great nation's history, and with special deference to its colonial origins, let us close our borders to the filthy foreign rabble."
Lovely Salsa
Banned
The cheering from the crowd is the most disgusting.
Trump is going to build a magnificant wall
USA! USA! USA!
You know watching south park and family guy and loling at the stupid people there. Little did I know that there are real people that are that stupid in US
South park will never be the same again
"Are you in favor on bombing terrorists homes?"
"Absolutely, people would continue to reproduce and they will raise children in their beliefs"
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
"Are you in favor on bombing terrorists homes?"
"Absolutely, people would continue to reproduce and they will raise children in their beliefs"
LOL.. this really made me LOL
makes sense though.. LOOL
yanipheonu
Member
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"
So uh... Has he mentioned the way he'll get around the first amendment? Between this and the internet shit, it's pretty clear he has no idea it exists.
So uh... Has he mentioned the way he'll get around the first amendment? Between this and the internet shit, it's pretty clear he has no idea it exists.
Portugeezer
Member
It doesn't even make sense. Muslim is not a race, being Muslim is a choice... how would you know someone is Muslim?
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