Support NeoGAF

[GaimeGuy]

I understand that, but these options trivialized the law to such an extent that selling bottled water on park grounds might as well be another option. Not all visitors come prepared and, for some of these folks, stocking up on bottled water may be the most practical option. Perhaps more recycling bins with warning signs on park grounds would help? This solution assumes, of course, that most litterbugs do so out of convenience or ignorance rather than malice.

If they didn't come prepared they could still buy a water bottle. Just not the one use bottled water.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I understand that, but these options trivialized the law to such an extent that selling bottled water on park grounds might as well be another option. Not all visitors come prepared and, for some of these folks, stocking up on bottled water may be the most practical option. Perhaps more recycling bins with warning signs on park grounds would help? This solution assumes, of course, that most litterbugs do so out of convenience or ignorance rather than malice.

It's not the littering that was the problem. They were transporting around tons of plastic to be recycled. Using a plastic bottle once and discarding it is incredibly wasteful even if you toss it in the recycling bin.

 

[UrokeJoe]

1. No, they sell reusable water bottles in the same places they used to sell the bottled water.

2. The vast majority of bottled water is basically tap water from a private aquifer ran through a filter roughly comparable to what you can hook to your faucet/have in your fridge. You aren't buying some magical spring elixir when you buy bottled water.

3. They were recycling. The problem is that recycling isn't a perfect machine where 100% of the material comes out the other side as reusable material. If they have a high quality facility you're probably looking at about 60-70% being viable for reuse, and then given the remote locations of many national parks you're then adding the transport, processing, and redistribution of that plastic at a far higher rate than your standard municipal recycling process. Just landfilling the material would still have substantial transport costs as well. The only economically and environmentally viable option was to simply remove the plastic from the shelf.

But hey, nothing more American than a lobbyist paying off favors within the first few months in the job.

Sounds good to me. They should just ban all plastic bottled drinks then.

 

[Acyl]

People arguing about soda vs water situation...

They already said that the ban improved the situation of people bringing their own reusable bottles by 78%!

Soda is overkill, as I don't know anyone who downs a bottle of 300 calorie Sprite after they finish their exercise.

I don't know how Obama did this (executive order or whatever) but he probably didn't want to face backlash from soda companies, and/or it wasn't worth it because probably most of the plastic waste was derived from water bottles (this is my speculation).

 

[Miles X]

Please tell me Obama did some shitty stuff during his two terms, at least when Trump reverses those it'll be of benefit.

 

[frontovik]

Looks like your president wants to drive America even further into the hard dirt in the name of greed and profit.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

slow news day

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I understand that, but these options trivialized the law to such an extent that selling bottled water on park grounds might as well be another option.

What? The data shows this to not be the case at all. Banning bottled water sales had a direct impact on the volume of trash that needed to be collected, sorted and recycled.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

The victories keep coming.

 

[MIMIC]

Grand Canyon National Park estimated several years ago that water bottles constituted 30 percent of the 900 tons of garbage it recycled. Zion National Park estimated that its sale of reusable bottles that visitors took home skyrocketed by 78 percent once it banned bottled-water sales.

The water industry fought back, challenging the Park Service's rationale for banning bottled-water while still allowing sugary drinks. Asked Thursday whether the IBWA had analyzed the ratio of bottled-water consumption compared with soda and water consumption at parks, Culora said the association did not have such data.

But the lobby pointed out that visitors were still allowed to carry bottled water into parks, as well as food items wrapped in plastic. Its analysts argued that the Park Service could not back claims that the ban had eliminated massive amounts of waste, and some members of Congress were persuaded. Last year, lawmakers called on the agency to produce a comprehensive assessment of the ban's effect.

Meh. On its face, the ban looks good, as well as the effects it had (bottle pollution reduced and reusable bottle sales increased). But the fact that they didn't have pop bottle data was a little weird.

 

[Z3M0G]

Why? Water is available at any tap or water fountain, Coke is not.

Because most people hiking turn to Coca-cola instead of water?

Wtff

 

[AJLma]

This is really a problem of the people being trifling rather than Trump or Obama.

 

[Nydius]

I understand the desire to blast Trump and his shitty administration for every little thing but some of the reactions here are a bit overboard when you look at the reality of the situation.

It was never a ban. It wasn't even an executive order. It was a policy suggestion put in place in 2011. Emphasis on suggestion. It was up to each park to put the policies in place - if they wanted to. By April 2014, only 23 parks had put these policies in place. From April 2014 to August 2017, no other parks put the policy in place. 23 parks out of 417 over a six year span.

Only two of the top ten most visited parks were on that list of 23 - Grand Canyon National Park and Zion National Park. The most visited national park, Great Smoky Mountain National Park (which had 11.3 million visitors last year) didn't adhere to the policy banning bottled water sales. Neither did Yellowstone, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain, or Grand Teton.

Not exactly a great track record of implementation.

As others have pointed out, it also did not ban the sale of other single-use plastic bottled beverages within these parks. Various cola, tea, and sports drinks were still sold in these 23 parks. It also did not prevent people from bringing single-use plastic bottled beverages - including water - into the park on their own.

A final minor bit: Coca-cola has most of the contracts for sales on national park grounds so it's mostly Coca-cola behind this rather than Nestle. Though I'm sure Nestle was close, close behind in the lobbying.

While policies to reduce plastic waste are great ideas, this policy was very poorly thought out and had little effect. The vast majority - some 95% - of National Parks simply ignored the policy memo and didn't bother. Stopping sales but allowing people to bring in plastic from outside the park directly negated any significant gains. The only way a policy like this can work is with comprehensive legislation preventing the sale of ALL plastics on ALL national park grounds and with strict controls about visitors bringing plastic in. Unfortunately, I don't see Congress doing anything of the sort.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Trump really hates Obama, if he could Terminator or 2 him, he would.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Uhh, rule exists to reduce plastic waste. Continue to sell plastic receptacles. Tough to understand though, clearly.

passing laws is hard.

 

[Jombie]

He's more concerned with trans people than nazis.