rokkerkory
Member
Ivankas clothing line is made in china. Would it hurt her biz?
Trump says the US not bound by one china policy, using it as a bargaining chip
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Chaos2Frozen
Member
Isn't that more like two powerful countries duking it out rather than a David vs Goliath scenario?
Like a Goliath vs Slightly smaller Goliath.
Little Green Yoda
Member
:lol at thinking US foreign policy is this bastion of democracy and freedom for other nations
She was planning on moving production to Ethiopia, because manufacturing costs are now rising in China.
He's the new York post of people
rokkerkory
Member
How nice of her
andythinkpad
Member
He looks up to other businessmen who make more money than him, so maybe that Exxon guy can talk some sense into him. Does him also have a blonde trophy wife, a jet and a golden toilet?
Vietnam's claim to certain islands would also be rejected by the International Court of Justice, on the grounds that they are rocks and not islands, it is not really a cut and dry issue, especially when in their most highlighted dispute related to Vietnam, it is Communist Vietnam making claims against democratic and free Taiwan over rocks that are usually completely submerged:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-idUSKBN13X0WD
cpp_is_king
Member
There are parts of the contested islands with active populations and cities. For example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trường_Sa_District
OG_Original Gamer
Member
But you can run the country like a business, it's all just making deals....the Donald makes deals and is a black belt in the Art of the Deal.
195 people does not make a city. These islands are closer to the free and democratic Philippines and Brunei than they are to Communist Vietnam. In this case, it is more a situation of Vietnam bullying the Philippines and Brunei by installing people on these islands, similar to how China installs 1000 people on Woody Island, which is closer to Vietnam than to China.
cpp_is_king
Member
It makes more than a rocky reef. Have they been bullying these other people since the 1930s, since their claims began? Seems like a bit of a stretch.
Anyway, I'm not here to resolve the dispute over who owns the islands. I'm just saying China throws their weight around wherever it suits them, and Taiwan is not the only recipient. I don't know how any reasonable person could dispute this.
China has recently even been pushing into North Vietnam and just moving into land that is obviously owned by Vietnam.
Bottom line, and my original point all along, is that many countries in the region who have been pushed around by China will be happy that someone finally stands up to them
Seductivpancakes
Member
Didn't he pay someone to write that book for him and the writer said it was all bull shit?
Sort of. because it's Donald, Donald didn't pay anyone. The publisher he licensed his shitty brand to, paid a proper writer to not only write it, but come up with most of the content.
If Donald had written it, it would have been called, "The Art of Making Money out of failures, but not that much money, to be honest"
PdotMichael
Banned
Ethiopia is basically China's place for outsourcing, so the production is mostly done by Chinese companies again.
Funnily China's relative short involement in countries like Ethiopia helped the country more than decades of Western Africa help which is often just dumping cheap food and clothes there.
Booya_base
Member
Yeah, having recently looked into this kind of thing and spending a month in China, it's amazing how much positive effect China is having on other developing countries isn't it what with the infrastructure building and everything. I realise they are not just doing it out of the kindness of their heart but they're definitely not half arsing it.
PdotMichael
Banned
Misunderstood kindness doesn't help anyone in Africa, the people need to become part of international trade.
exmachina64
Banned
He said Trump is an unintelligent sociopath prone to rants and deep feuds over minor slights. Oh, he also said Trump could bring about the end of civilization.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
Unknown Soldier
Member
If they sink one of our ships in international waters, they will have the entire world to answer to. Not the US.
You're actually right about this, and I do agree that a bomber flight isn't worthy of a dramatic response. The Russians actually do it all the time just to see if NATO does anything and other than watch them fly by and say hi on the radio they do not respond unless sovereign airspace is going to be violated. So I'm happy to back down on my remark.
I personally do think the B-2 doesn't get flown nearly often enough, maybe we can fly one around the South China Sea. That's probably the limit of what our response to this flight ought to be, and even that might be an overreaction TBH.
The Chinese were using an H-6 (possibly an upgraded H-6K) in their flight. Not exactly a platform that is keeping the Navy up at night (it's a product improved 50's-era Russian bomber, similar in usage to upgraded B-52s).
Relevant to this discussion is the US DoD's 2015 assessment of the Chinese military, it's an interesting read.
Relevant to this discussion is the US DoD's 2015 assessment of the Chinese military, it's an interesting read.
scotcheggz
Member
Just look at this post, I mean, it's almost cute really.
Did you learn history from a colouring book?
PdotMichael
Banned
Yes, the USA should really send their stealth aircraft close to China so China can gather important data of their radar signature. I bet the Air Force loves the idea.
What a horrible way to treat Taiwan. "Hey the US promises to recognize your independence if the People's Republic of China refuses to yield to our business demands. If they comply, then you're shit out of luck, you're just part of mainland China. Best wishes, love, Donald Trump."
Not sure if this deserves its own thread.
Trump's businesses WW opens him up to blackmail and conflicts including China:
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/...cts-open-us-to-foreign-blackmail-831475267951
Trump postpones press conference on his conflict of interest:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onflicts-of-interests/?utm_term=.fe38391af828
Trump's businesses WW opens him up to blackmail and conflicts including China:
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/...cts-open-us-to-foreign-blackmail-831475267951
Trump postpones press conference on his conflict of interest:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...onflicts-of-interests/?utm_term=.fe38391af828
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Well, new news, new thread I guess. Doesn't really fit in here without derailing into other topics, so I would think new threads would be relevant here.
It is. And worse, at this point it really does seem like an outright bluff, if it's over business and not principle then it seems obvious we'd not be willing to back Taiwan with force in a worst case scenario, which in all honesty we probably aren't now either but we hadn't been trying to force China's hand either.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The B-2 is already increasingly vulnerable to modern detection systems and is scheduled to be replaced by the B-21 in the 2020's. No one is pretending the B-2 is the cutting edge of stealth technology anymore otherwise we wouldn't have flown it over Serbia. I'm sure the Russians got a good look at them then and no one panicked or hardly cared.
cpp_is_king
Member
Thanks for your insightful contribution
What the other poster is trying to say is that South Vietnam under Ngo Dinh Diem was not a democracy. It was a US-friendly dictatorship. As was the Republic of Korea. Hell, we destroyed Iran's democracy to make it a dictatorship because Iran wanted to regulate the UK's oil companies. US did some particularly fucked up shit in the second half of the twentieth century.
PdotMichael
Banned
You don't send such systems for dick waving. There is a reason why the USA uses B-52 bombers for that job or China their H-6 bombers.
And yes B-2 is still the most advanced stealth system in the Air Force.
The naivety of your plans is somehow disturbing.
That's the reason Trump with lose the support of Taiwan pretty fast if he tries to push harder now - not that the support is overwhelming right now.
Trump plays a chicken game and he is the only actor in that game.
PdotMichael
Banned
New York Times sumps it up quite nice
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/w...on-taiwan-how-china-could-push-back.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/w...on-taiwan-how-china-could-push-back.html?_r=0
andythinkpad
Member
Sorry but no
This is exactly what Trump is trying to do. He's explicitly stated he's doing it to try and get a better deal for American trade. Not in order to accept contested sovereignty or doing a favor for disenfranchised people.
cpp_is_king
Member
Sorry but no
This is exactly what Trump is trying to do. He's explicitly stated he's doing it to try and get a better deal for American trade. Not in order to accept contested sovereignty or doing a favor for disenfranchised people.
It may be what trump is trying to do, but it's what China has been doing for decades. World's smallest violin is playing for their feelings getting hurt.
You think I'm worried about China's feelings? I guess you're just as foolish as Trump himself and think we can bully China without repercussions.
You've been drinking the koolaid if you think we've just been letting China do whatever they want until now and Trump's gonna show them who's boss. It's always been a push and pull -- both sides have leverage. Some Americans, Trump included, just think we can do whatever we want and there's no consequences to pushing other countries around and it keeps getting us into trouble. American propaganda is strong.
edit: *reads your tag* oh, lol
cpp_is_king
Member
I don't think there will be no reprecussions. I just think "because we're scared of the reprecussions" is not a good excuse to not do what's right (even if we'd be doing it for the wrong reasons). Standing up for Taiwan is right, and we should be ashamed of ourselves for ever adopting this policy in the first place, which we only used in the first place as a bargaining chip, just like what Trump is trying to do now.
Again, world's smallest violin.
We should be ashamed for recognizing the CCP in Beijing as the legitimate political entity in Mainland China instead of the ROC which has nothing to do with the mainland where over 1.3 billion people live?
It was shameful that we recognized the the ROC as the ruling entity of the mainland for as long as we did.
PdotMichael
Banned
It was a big mistake not backing up Republic of China and invade the mainland to recounter China.
Why not?
Well, infact the USA even tried but lol Chiang Kai-shek.
Why not?
Well, infact the USA even tried but lol Chiang Kai-shek.
The link should be fixed now.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's always quite impressive how China renders the predictions obsolute. With stuff like there are already a dozen production J-20 and the fast paced advancement of the Type 055 cruiser. Always very conservative compared to prediction related to Russia.
andythinkpad
Member
Since I don't want to start a new Trump foreign politic thread, I want to post it here.
I have been thinking, the way Trump name a pro-Russia sec of State and a guy who knows Xi for decades as the Chinese envoy is his way of negotiating deals (when we say deals, it's always $$$ to Trump.)
Think about it, if Trump put the fate of NATO and security of Europe up for the highest bidder, who is willing to pay the highest cost and win the bid. Obviously its Germany and the Western Europe. Putin's Russia is a poor ass country, they can't possibly outbid Germany. So the whole idea of naming a pro Russia Sec of State is a negotiation posture. The endgames is Trump always want more money (be it actual money of arm sales) to make him look good.
Now with that being said, I think the dealing between China and US is going to be a longer one. Trump wants fleece more money out of China, that's why he (stupidly) put the One China Policy up for bid. But China will never negotiate on the base line of One China Policy. So it's going to be harder for Trump to get out of this with a contract from China (100 Boeing jet sales or whatever) to make himself look good. I don't think the end game will have that much space for Taiwan, because Taiwan simply can't compete with China in contracts with the US. The whole mess probably will take a couple years to play out.
I also think it's unwise to deal with China and reshuffle the political order in Asia right now. US simply don't have a lot of trade volume and thus influence in South East Asia. Singapore (i.e the hardest US soldier) is in a economic down turn; Philippine just switched side. So basically US geopolitically doesn't have a lot of chips in SEA to deal with China. Of course Trump doesn't know that, he is a complete foreign politic ignorant. I predict it will not end the way he planned.
I have been thinking, the way Trump name a pro-Russia sec of State and a guy who knows Xi for decades as the Chinese envoy is his way of negotiating deals (when we say deals, it's always $$$ to Trump.)
Think about it, if Trump put the fate of NATO and security of Europe up for the highest bidder, who is willing to pay the highest cost and win the bid. Obviously its Germany and the Western Europe. Putin's Russia is a poor ass country, they can't possibly outbid Germany. So the whole idea of naming a pro Russia Sec of State is a negotiation posture. The endgames is Trump always want more money (be it actual money of arm sales) to make him look good.
Now with that being said, I think the dealing between China and US is going to be a longer one. Trump wants fleece more money out of China, that's why he (stupidly) put the One China Policy up for bid. But China will never negotiate on the base line of One China Policy. So it's going to be harder for Trump to get out of this with a contract from China (100 Boeing jet sales or whatever) to make himself look good. I don't think the end game will have that much space for Taiwan, because Taiwan simply can't compete with China in contracts with the US. The whole mess probably will take a couple years to play out.
I also think it's unwise to deal with China and reshuffle the political order in Asia right now. US simply don't have a lot of trade volume and thus influence in South East Asia. Singapore (i.e the hardest US soldier) is in a economic down turn; Philippine just switched side. So basically US geopolitically doesn't have a lot of chips in SEA to deal with China. Of course Trump doesn't know that, he is a complete foreign politic ignorant. I predict it will not end the way he planned.
The policy was advocated by Taiwan in the first place, which was why the Taiwanese government held the "China" seat in the United Nations from 1945 to 1971. It is still the law in Taiwan that their government represents all of China.
It is not standing up for Taiwan to say that we will agree to dump Taiwan if you give us something. That's like saying the US is standing up for Vietnam by saying we will agree to your South China Sea claims if you give us something.
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