Trump says the US not bound by one china policy, using it as a bargaining chip

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And then nothing. It's our fleet in international waters. It's for them to look at.

LMAO? China has no worldwide power projection. They know it and we know it.

So since they can't attack you on the other side of the world you are gonna leave a target right next to them and what if they realize is an empty threat?. Good to know that Trump is not the only one that knows more than the generals.

Haha what's with all these guys going all macho against China recently? I bet its the same guys that think manliness is under siege, insecure little...
 
So you want to do something pointless.


okay...

And China has quite the incredible power projection in the South China Sea

It's not any more pointless than flying a bomber around. The point is also to send a message, that we have some nice toys too and oh by the way since you showed us yours I'll show you mine.
 
You don't seem to grasp the importance that positive relations with china has to the US economy and the importance of the one china policy to that. You're ignorant. You don't know what you're arguing or why other than "trump is right hur durr strong america". Go back to /r/the_donald and keep staying uninformed.

It's also important to recognize the cost of that economy. China oppresses a lot of groups in the name of "one China", I don't think everyone should ignore the human cost just because they don't have to deal with it. Same for Israel and Saudi Arabia. I don't think Trump is an altruist but I couldn't be happier someone is actually breaking the silence on these issues. Should others not call out the US because Trump will throw a hissy fit? And he too, by a lot of people, is a crazy nationalist who would start WW3 over some stupid shit.
 
I'm curious what people think antagonizing China is meant to accomplish or how it furthers US foreign policy goals. If trade relations break down then manufacturing jobs come back to the US?

Like, if China is suddenly wary of US military intervention what exactly is that sort of threat meant to accomplish? Is it just grandstanding for domestic support or is there some sort of goal we're negotiating towards?
 
I question the legitimacy of your government Beijing, but hey we can still do business with one another right?

Donald Trump is an imbecile.
 
It's not any more pointless than flying a bomber around. The point is also to send a message, that we have some nice toys too and oh by the way since you showed us yours I'll show you mine.

Yeehaw! if you really think that the bomber is pointless you can always ignore it.

The US already sent their fleet when there was a real conflict: the artificial islands. It didn't send it when there was another bomber flight issue (18 months ago, I think), if you keep sending them everytime then it loses its power as a message. A dick measuring contest helps no one, especially if it started for a blunder instead of a well planned diplomatic offensive.
 
So since they can't attack you on the other side of the world you are gonna leave a target right next to them and what if they realize is an empty threat?. Good to know that Trump is not the only one that knows more than the generals.

Haha what's with all these guys going all macho against China recently? I bet its the same guys that think manliness is under siege, insecure little...

What? No one is going to attack anybody. No one is even threatening anybody. The point of leaving it there is for them to look at, you don't park them in Hawaii or something. We do it all the time, our carrier fleets are constantly moving to regional hotspots. Not to attack anyone, but to let everyone know we are there and paying attention.
 
I think we were and always be unpopular with countries that we fucked over with our policies but this seems like we are moving into territory where we are just going to be generally hated even by our allies.

I can see us in the future telling people "Americans are not like what you see on the television, the people are actually really nice".

In Canada people have said that my entire lifetime and I'm in my mid 40's. People believe it on a small scale so long as you completely avoid certain topics. In general people do not say nice thing though. It actually hard to fight against the stereotype. I know I have struggled with it lots and have to force myself to have an open mind. You remember the negatives though that is what sticks with you.
 
It's not any more pointless than flying a bomber around. The point is also to send a message, that we have some nice toys too and oh by the way since you showed us yours I'll show you mine.

And you don't do anything else than handing your carrier on a silver platter while supporting any anti American movements in China and negotiate from a worse position.
 
I think you have it backwards.

By making Trump's USA the boogeyman, China's government can utilize the situation to unify their innards and stomp out dissent. Especially in a time where their economy is finally slowing down, they have the opportunity to use a foreign enemy to mask internal troubles. It's not good for China in the long term, but Trump's a useful tool for consolidating power.

If China wanted to make Trump the boogeyman they're free to do so whenever they want if convenient. We've had plenty of them over the years and a target for war is hardly the economy cure-all historians want you to believe it is.
 
Because China is a beacon of democracy and free speech that doesn't already stamp out all forms of dissent?
They had been loosening restrictions and allowing dissent for a bit, but recently under Xi Jinping things have gone sour because of the anti-corruption crusade—which was also a convenient vehicle to get rid of some political enemies.

From an outsider's perspective it looks like "one party system" = "dictatorship", but the Communist party has had transitions between different presidents in recent years. To get the one person there, it's a lot of politicking within the ranks of the political elite, which are not necessarily unified in approaches.

It's also not as if the government does not respond to dissent or completely deletes dissent. The Tianjin explosion definitely got a heavy response due to huge public reaction among the Chinese populace.

I'm not providing a defense of China's practices. I'm suggesting that the typical American has very little understanding of China's internal politics—even I am not that knowledgeable. What I do know is that Trump will provide the Chinese population with a legitimate boogeyman instead of an imagined one cooked up by the Chinese government. That can definitely make things worse than they already are for activists and ethnic populations in China, as well as the extremely poor workers that are under economic duress but will have their concerns ignored in favor of blasting Trump. He will be used as an example of why their lives are worse, and stoke nationalism and radicalism. Creating a feedback loop where the Chinese government might feel they have to be more aggressive in order to not look stupid to their population.

If China wanted to make Trump the boogeyman they're free to do so whenever they want if convenient. We've had plenty of them over the years and a target for war is hardly the economy cure-all historians want you to believe it is.
Some people here can't think further than just the immediate impact, or think about the situation from China's perspective or from Taiwan's perspective. Unless you are ready to commit to war, don't be so flagrant with your words.
 
What? No one is going to attack anybody. No one is even threatening anybody. The point of leaving it there is for them to look at, you don't park them in Hawaii or something. We do it all the time, our carrier fleets are constantly moving to regional hotspots. Not to attack anyone, but to let everyone know we are there and paying attention.

Say the Chinese sinks one of your ships since they consider it an infringement of their sovereignty. What will you do then?
 
Truly spoken like a person that doesn't understand geopolitics. Hey are you from the rust belt?
I don't support Trump. But this and other moves like it put the US on offense rather than defense.

Like it or not, Obama's FP legacy will be defined by his passivity and inaction. This could signal a positive shift on that front, IMO.
 
If China wanted to make Trump the boogeyman they're free to do so whenever they want if convenient. We've had plenty of them over the years and a target for war is hardly the economy cure-all historians want you to believe it is.

Trump is giving them a reason, and a reason that is liable to find a lot of popular support. They don't even need to sell it, like all the stuff they needed to do with Japan.
 
I don't support Trump. But this and other moves like it put the US on offense rather than defense.

Like it or not, Obama's FP legacy will be defined by his passivity and inaction. This could signal a positive shift on that front, IMO.

A war is a positive shift guys!

Several decades long peace is overrated.
 
What? No one is going to attack anybody. No one is even threatening anybody. The point of leaving it there is for them to look at, you don't park them in Hawaii or something. We do it all the time, our carrier fleets are constantly moving to regional hotspots. Not to attack anyone, but to let everyone know we are there and paying attention.

If you truly believe the bomber is pointless then why escalate the conflict? just ignore them.

Like it or not, Obama's FP legacy will be defined by his passivity and inaction. This could signal a positive shift on that front, IMO.

People really believe this? did you forgot that the US sent their fleet when there was a real conflict because China made their artificial islands? how is any of this positive?
 
Trump is giving them a reason, and a reason that is liable to find a lot of popular support. They don't even need to sell it, like all the stuff they needed to do with Japan.

I personally don't believe it will stick as well as you think and demonify Trump because he's rousing internal politics. Taiwan praised the phone call that incited this act.
 
I don't support Trump. But this and other moves like it put the US on offense rather than defense.

Like it or not, Obama's FP legacy will be defined by his passivity and inaction. This could signal a positive shift on that front, IMO.
Nonsense. TTP as designed would have taken an axe to Chinese regional influence without firing a single shot. Instead Trump decides to scrap it and pick a fight over denying the PRC's legitimacy as a sovereign nation.
 
If you're using something as a bargaining chip, then to publically announce that you're using that thing as a bargaining chip is a really shitty negotiating tactic.
 
It is incredible how wall street remains incredibly happy about orange turd. Are they all just racist egotistical morons?


The only surprise so far from post-election Trump is him opening far and wide to pleasing Wall Street as much as possible.

Given that, It's not surprising at all.
 
They had been loosening restrictions and allowing dissent for a bit, but recently under Xi Jinping things have gone sour because of the anti-corruption crusade—which was also a convenient vehicle to get rid of some political enemies.

From an outsider's perspective it looks like "one party system" = "dictatorship", but the Communist party has had transitions between different presidents in recent years. To get the one person there, it's a lot of politicking within the ranks of the political elite, which are not necessarily unified in approaches.

It's also not as if the government does not respond to dissent or completely deletes dissent. The Tianjin explosion definitely got a heavy response due to huge public reaction among the Chinese populace.

I'm not providing a defense of China's practices. I'm suggesting that the typical American has very little understanding of China's internal politics—even I am not that knowledgeable. What I do know is that Trump will provide the Chinese population with a legitimate boogeyman instead of an imagined one cooked up by the Chinese government. That can definitely make things worse than they already are for activists and ethnic populations in China, as well as the extremely poor workers that are under economic duress but will have their concerns ignored in favor of blasting Trump. He will be used as an example of why their lives are worse, and stoke nationalism and radicalism. Creating a feedback loop where the Chinese government might feel they have to be more aggressive in order to not look stupid to their population.


Some people here can't think further than just the immediate impact, or think about the situation from China's perspective or from Taiwan's perspective. Unless you are ready to commit to war, don't be so flagrant with your words.

And, you don't seem to understand that a repressive dictatorship that controls all aspects of the media does not need any excuse to create a boogeyman. Russia under Putin was able to push the narrative that Obama was Hitler come to push back the Motherland to Post-WWI levels. And it worked, people actually believe this.

Thus, this notion that Trump will somehow make the Chinese government worse to its own people or more repressive is nonsense. Communist China doesn't need an excuse to maintain their status quo.
 
And, you don't seem to understand that a repressive dictatorship that controls all aspects of the media does not need any excuse to create a boogeyman. Russia under Putin was able to push the narrative that Obama was Hitler come to push back the Motherland to Post-WWI levels. And it worked, people actually believe this.

Thus, this notion that Trump will somehow make the Chinese government worse to its own people or more repressive is nonsense. Communist China doesn't need an excuse to maintain their status quo.

I'd just like to point out that you don't need a repressive dictatorship with control of the media to create boogeymen. US has been doing it for decades, if not centuries.
 
The US has essentially tread a line between one China and supporting Taiwan. We sold Taiwan $1.6B in weapons last year. If we were actually fullly behind a one China, this wouldn't be happening.

We just pretend we aren't sending them weapons to defend themselves from China.
 
The US has essentially tread a line between one China and supporting Taiwan. We sold Taiwan $1.6B in weapons last year. If we were actually fullly behind a one China, this wouldn't be happening.

We just pretend we aren't sending them weapons to defend themselves from China.

Isn't that the point? It was already a bargaining chip. Trump just has the arrogance to think he can bully other countries around without repercussions.
 
China is all about face.
For trump to tell them in advance how he plans to make them lose is incredibly stupid.
Does anyone really believe this man is playing international chess with calculated moves? Really? Someone seriously thinks that anything he does in terms of international strategy is thought through?

This guy thinks he is a "deal maker". He sees the presidency as an opportunity to make little deals everywhere: carrier, Boeing, Lockheed, Taiwan and all this before he takes office. None of it reflects anything cohesive, it's just tiny opportunism. A president can't micromanage things this way it is stupidity..
 
What an idiot. What do you have to gain by not abiding by the policy?

This is what I think happened-

He unwittingly accepted the congratulatory call, faced a shitstorm, said it was intentional, planned and it indicates a departure from old foreign policy.

Now he's fucking stuck because he can't admit he was wrong. Get ready for 4 years of this, not only because he's an idiot who doesn't know anything about foreign relations, but he doesn't even want to learn.

It truly is something to behold.
 
Isn't that the point? It was already a bargaining chip. Trump just has the arrogance to think he can bully other countries around without repercussions.

I'm not sure communicating with a disenfranchised government is what I'd describe as "bullying." Even if he is motivated by self-gain Trump is giving them dignity.
 
You guys just don't like Trump. So you don't like whatever he does. He could put a man on Mars and you'd argue it's a waste of money. I'll say good day here so I don't continue to hijack this thread.

You could have actually presented some form of an argument, I'm actually curious what you meant. Personally, I don't necessarily think that China or any country should just assume that a policy cannot change; but I would like to hear what you have to say.
 
China is all about face.
For trump to tell them in advance how he plans to make them lose is incredibly stupid.
Does anyone really believe this man is playing international chess with calculated moves? Really? Someone seriously thinks that anything he does in terms of international strategy is thought through?

This guy thinks he is a "deal maker". He sees the presidency as an opportunity to make little deals everywhere: carrier, Boeing, Lockheed, Taiwan and all this before he takes office. None of it reflects anything cohesive, it's just tiny opportunism. A president can't micromanage things this way it is stupidity..

Didn't Trump campaign on this saying our leaders have been telling ISIS how we plan to defeat them and that is why we are losing? This motherfucker needs to listen to his own words.
 
Did anyone read the transcript of the conversation with Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz?

The man is a fucking moron.

I'm positive he had no idea what he was getting himself into, and he's just too stubborn to admit it.

EDIT: For posterity:

'Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif you have a very good reputation. You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work which is visible in every way. I am looking forward to see you soon. As I am talking to you Prime Minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me any time even before 20th January that is before I assume my office.'
 
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