Vicetrailia
Banned
I think it's pretty common sense that as we progress things get better.
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Trump's first year as a president
- Thread starter Pomerlaw
- Start date
I think it's pretty common sense that as we progress things get better.
BANGS
Banned
I'm not confusing anything. Tell me, where do you think that progress comes from? The coal miner, the cashier, the carpenter, or the big fucking corporation spending millions of dollars in R&D? I'll give you time to think about it...
You seem to be confusing income inequality with quality of life. Go move a nation where everyone is equally poor if that's where your value lies... I prefer to live in a nation where even the poorest people live in standards better than half the rest of the world. My values personally aren't so filled with jealousy that I think I deserve a piece of the pie that I never contributed to...
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Mahadev
Member
The progress comes from the scientists that work their asses off to better humanity and then get their ideas used by greedy corporations that exploit their work for their own benefit. Your argument is the same as that obnoxious Fox News "article" where they were downplaying the problems of the poor by telling us that they have refrigerators and mobile phones. You utterly fail to realize that when a certain standard of living exists in a society people who can't meet that standard become profoundly unhappy and happiness of the citizens is the best standard a society should have, not fucking Dow Jones points or GDP that only measure the success of the rich (and which is why they're used so much by capitalist governments of course).
BANGS
Banned
This is the most ridiculous sentence I've read all day, and I've been browsing reddit...
Mahadev
Member
Yes, how ridiculous to think that technological progress comes from scientists. Fyi, the "job" corporations do which you described above could easily be done by a public bank that would fund university projects and then allow humanity to enjoy the full benefits of technological progress. All corporations do is provide funding and then exploit the work of others while spamming the public with marketing which not only is a huge waste of societal resources but also its main purpose is to brainwash people into buying their overpriced shit.
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BANGS
Banned
Let me explain the simple concepts of reality. Scientific research is a service provided by scientists for a fee. That fee is paid for by often times by corporations who use said research to create new products. Those products benefit mankind...
Your other point about how they also create bad products and then market them is irrelevant. We all have our own personal responsibility, you don't have to purchase those products. Furthermore, progress needs failures. Not every invention is going to be a hit, and we learn from those mistakes...
The only factual point you make is "greedy corporations that exploit their work for their own benefit." Yes it's true, corporations don't give a shit about you, they only care about making more money. But in their pursuit of money, they create these great products that significantly improve our standards of living. That is how the free market operates, that is how progress is made. Man didn't invent the wheel to benefit the world, he invented it to benefit himself...
You can imagine all the magical fairy lands where "public banks" come up with money and create inventions despite having zero incentive to actually do so. Who is going to fund this bank? Who decides what products get researched/developed and in what priority? What is stopping you from doing this right now? You do realize this is basically what kickstarter is, but more grounded in reality, right? You can live in fairy tale land all you want, I prefer reality...
But we have gone WAAAY off topic and I do not wish to discuss this further on this topic. You are welcome to make another topic on the positive/negative impact of corporations on American lives. I'd gladly participate and I'm sure there are many here wiser and more qualified than myself to discuss such things...
Your other point about how they also create bad products and then market them is irrelevant. We all have our own personal responsibility, you don't have to purchase those products. Furthermore, progress needs failures. Not every invention is going to be a hit, and we learn from those mistakes...
The only factual point you make is "greedy corporations that exploit their work for their own benefit." Yes it's true, corporations don't give a shit about you, they only care about making more money. But in their pursuit of money, they create these great products that significantly improve our standards of living. That is how the free market operates, that is how progress is made. Man didn't invent the wheel to benefit the world, he invented it to benefit himself...
You can imagine all the magical fairy lands where "public banks" come up with money and create inventions despite having zero incentive to actually do so. Who is going to fund this bank? Who decides what products get researched/developed and in what priority? What is stopping you from doing this right now? You do realize this is basically what kickstarter is, but more grounded in reality, right? You can live in fairy tale land all you want, I prefer reality...
But we have gone WAAAY off topic and I do not wish to discuss this further on this topic. You are welcome to make another topic on the positive/negative impact of corporations on American lives. I'd gladly participate and I'm sure there are many here wiser and more qualified than myself to discuss such things...
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Mahadev
Member
The incentive for banks and unions in a civilized society where profits and exploitation isn't the main drive of society would be progress. Conservatives like you have this fucked up notion that without incentivizing people and organizations with greed you can't have progress. Healthy competition, reputation, helping humanity or just being part of a group that does something great are also huge incentives for people.
BANGS
Banned
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said greed is the only incentive for progress, I'm implying that a healthy free market is the best incentive for progress. There are plenty of other examples of progress in society which I did not mention as they were irrelevant. None of those examples are nearly as effective as the free market as a whole. The biggest one I can think of is NASA, which while awesome and groundbreaking, isn't nearly as productive as a similar sized corporation(their yearly funding budget makes some big businesses look like a fucking kickstarter project)...
But I would love to hear all the examples you have outside the free market of people making huge leaps of progress to benefit society's standard of living on the scale that corporations do. Do you imagine flying cars will be built in a church? Please, enlighten me on the progress made for the sake of "helping humanity" and how it's superior in comparison to the progress made from business...
edit: Last warning. If you wish to continue this very off topic discussion, make a new topic about it. We cannot derail this thread...
But I would love to hear all the examples you have outside the free market of people making huge leaps of progress to benefit society's standard of living on the scale that corporations do. Do you imagine flying cars will be built in a church? Please, enlighten me on the progress made for the sake of "helping humanity" and how it's superior in comparison to the progress made from business...
edit: Last warning. If you wish to continue this very off topic discussion, make a new topic about it. We cannot derail this thread...
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Kadayi
Banned
There is not evidence, no matter how you frame it, it's just hearsay. Nothing you've said there adds any more weight to the position and given Trump isn't alone in saying it didn't happen, other people in attendance don't recall it either. Clearly, you want it to have occurred, but without actual evidence, there's no logical reason to give it any credence.
As an aside does the edit post button confuse people?
It's right next to the report post button.
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rokkerkory
Member
He's doing great things to our global image in his first year:
-18 points from a year ago while Russia has gained a point
Imagine when we will have a crisis, will our allies still come to our aid?
-18 points from a year ago while Russia has gained a point
Imagine when we will have a crisis, will our allies still come to our aid?
Kadayi
Banned
As a Eurolander I'm curious to know the case scenarios where the US would need a hand from anyone else tbh? Militarily there isn't a country remotely in the same ballpark, and the rest of the world is beholden to the US dollar as a global currency as means to buy oil via the long-standing arrangement with OPEC.
No one over here in the UK liked Bush and most people thought the whole WMD things was BS (turns out we were right to be sceptical) widescale public distrust, however, didn't stop the war criminal known as Tony Blair throwing our lot in with the Iraq War, because when the Whitehouse says jump the response is 'how high?'
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BANGS
Banned
I'm so glad you said it before I did...
rokkerkory
Member
See the global response to September 11th? Support is much more than just military or budget btw.
Kadayi
Banned
So you think what exactly? That if another 911 happened tomorrow say, that just because Trumps in the Whitehouse and he's a big meanie (according to mainstream media) that no one in the rest of the world would give a shit? Does that seem like a credible response?
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rokkerkory
Member
I am sure our friends would care if another 911 came about. How they show it in action may be different this time around based on how Trump has acted. Perhaps a country in Africa may not want to help out since they are a "shithole" country.
Let me put this into simpler terms. If you talked bad about your friends, how would they react to you?
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BANGS
Banned
Well chances are America is helping that shithole country from being just a strait pile of shit country, and they appreciate our support. Some mean words from one guy aren't gonna change that...
It's much more likely America has played a heavy hand in that country being a "shithole" in the first place more than anything
appaws
Banned
Is it just the term "shithole" that is bothering people? Or just because it is Trump? If he had said essentially the same thing in pretty words, like "countries with sub-optimal living conditions," would that be "racist?"
Trump Derangement Syndrome is definitely real, every time the guy strings two words together the chicken littles come out screaming about the sky falling. I thought it was bad under Bush, who was truly a terrible president, 1000x worse than Trump. But the tax plan is decent, the deregulation is good, and the judges are fabulous. No major wars, although I am disturbed that the neocons are wielding more influence than I thought they would before the election.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is definitely real, every time the guy strings two words together the chicken littles come out screaming about the sky falling. I thought it was bad under Bush, who was truly a terrible president, 1000x worse than Trump. But the tax plan is decent, the deregulation is good, and the judges are fabulous. No major wars, although I am disturbed that the neocons are wielding more influence than I thought they would before the election.
BANGS
Banned
That's cute...
Sadly it's been a thing even before he was elected... The guy literally ate a taco and the world lost their minds...
Vicetrailia
Banned
America takes much more from those countries than it gives them.
Well scratch that, poor countries develop rich companies far more than they benefit/develop. This makes sense from a capitalism/globalism view, but don't make it seem like something it isn't. It's a part of the game. If it were 50/50 benefit poor countries would develop faster.
BANGS
Banned
Care to provide examples?
Vicetrailia
Banned
An example of how capitalism and trade works between unequal powers?
Here's a modern symptom: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...rse-how-poor-countries-develop-rich-countries.
Here's a modern symptom: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...rse-how-poor-countries-develop-rich-countries.
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BANGS
Banned
No, an example of the US TAKING more money from a poor country than they give in aid. That article shows nothing about money being taken, only shows that business flows towards the bigger nations... That's not taking money...
Fucking christ almighty.
The judges are fabulous? Are you literally one of those fiscally conservative, and socially conservative people?
He is a boorish imbecile. If you can't see how obviously stupid this fucking trainwreck of a human being is I don't know what to tell you. He's been a joke for 40 years. He's what stupid people think a rich and successful person is.
Even the arguments for and against him in this thread are ridiculous. I don't hate him because he's a mean old capitalist, or greedy. I just expect him to be an intelligent and thoughtful leader which Trump is obviously not. He fucking shoots himself in the foot daily.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Aid is a tiny piece of the pie, and is completely irrelevant compared to trading/investment with a country. Us giving aid helps us profit, even when it is donated from citizens, and there are reasons why that is too. Money is made through business. More money and resources are extraced than they extract from us. So it is we who are grateful.
We spend less than one percent of our budget on aid btw.
And we just don't give aid in a vacuum, even when there is an ebola outbreak crisis.
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BANGS
Banned
Oh I must have taken your original post out of context. You're just talking about business. I was talking about aid. So again, we straight up GIVE them money, but we don't actually TAKE away money. Doing business is not the same as giving or taking money, at least not in the context we were talking about...
Doing business with them is certainly helping them, so I fail to see the point. If they didn't want to do business with us, then they shouldn't choose to. I'm sure they could just do business with other shithole countries and see how well that goes for them...
BANGS
Banned
What do you mean, one of those people? Is that so hard to believe?
appaws
Banned
"Literally" fiscally conservative, and socially conservative....ZOMG!!!! LOL, who ever heard of such a thing?
The judges have been excellent. He was smart, and went to the Federalist Society for quality people who interpret law and don't try to make it. They don't believe that the Constitution is endlessly flexible and they don't believe that the federal government has the power to socially engineer society without limits, so I am sure you find them "unqualified."
It was worth it to elect him just to watch lefties go completely batshit.
Vicetrailia
Banned
You're too simplistic. We do not give aid for free. The government benefits. It's not "oh I gave you 8 million, be grateful". Aid isn't a tool for you to use as a weapon like you tried to do.
And of course business is helping, you afterall help your CEO, giving them way more than they give you while still benefitting in the process...while they benefit far more. That's capitalism.
And there is no such thing as "if you don't like it, just leave" in global economics.
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rokkerkory
Member
How is America helping Haiti right now?
BANGS
Banned
You cannot choose to do business with another country, just like I can't choose to work for a different CEO? Not sure I understand your point here, but that's ok. This conversation doesn't seem to be going anywhere...
https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/1982.htm
rokkerkory
Member
All of that 'help' is coming prior to 2017 LOL. Did you read your own link?
Kadayi
Banned
Anthropomorphizing entire nation states with all their sheer complexity is always a mistake in a discussion. It's the sort of gross simplification that just doesn't hold up all that well to any degree of intellectual scrutiny. The political, economic and strategic aspects alone are all prevalent factors that far outweigh any notions of emotional response. Which is why Trump's overseas popularity isn't anything more than something for the news media to get excited about when all is said and done.
LatvjuAvs
Member
Best guy in that office since for ever.
Not yet sure if he is in bed with everyone else in that disease riddled politics pit.
Give him one more year and one more term, then will see.
Like some stuff her is doing, dislike other, usual politics.
Million times better than last actor that was there.
Not yet sure if he is in bed with everyone else in that disease riddled politics pit.
Give him one more year and one more term, then will see.
Like some stuff her is doing, dislike other, usual politics.
Million times better than last actor that was there.
rokkerkory
Member
But calling them and others shithole is the new norm.
rokkerkory
Member
Are you really from Taylorsville Kentucky?
I'm just trying to understand. You’re surrounded by some of the highest infant mortality, shockingly low median income (19k per household!), nearly highest poverty rate, very high crime rate, and some of the worst public schools in the developed world.
What have your conservative values done for you? By every measurable metric I can think of your worse off. The gap between your children’s quality of education and a state like Massachusetts is massive, and to top it off you pay a similar tax rate as we do.
Spencer county went 75% Trump. My town went 87% HRC. The gap between your world and mine is inconceivable. I just can’t see how your choices have done anything but condemn generations to poverty while laughing at how delicate snowflakes are “triggered”.
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Well maybe. He’s shockingly insecure and has a such a fragile ego. I would assume he would do anything to front load as much gain as possible without any concern for the long term consequences. The economists I’ve heard speak about it say he’s doing things normally reserved for recessions. Building the national debt while you pull out of a resession is normal, but going further in debt during good times leaves you in serious trouble when the next “correction” happens.
I have no reason to believe his obvious incompetence in every other category suddenly disappears when it comes to economic decisions.
I think eventually the markets will need to correct and it’s going to be devastating. At some point the deregulation and gutting of the EPA is going to cause a disaster in some small town next to a chemical plant. At some point we will have missed the point we had to deal with climate change and every year we will get “100 year storms” devastating town after town. At some point the gutting of the state department is going to destroy complex relationship we have built over hundreds of years.
I think the people in the midwest and south who voted for him have condemned themselves and their children to a life of increasingly provincial, isolated existence.
appaws
Banned
I grew up in Chicago. Have lived near Taylorsville since 2009, actually unincorporated Spencer County, not in Taylorsville itself, but just up the road.
Spencer County public schools are very good. I can't even imagine what you are basing "worst public schools in the developed world" on...!?!?
Also I just looked up our crime rate, and Spencer is well below both Metro Louisville and the United States average in both violent and non-violent crime, so again I am not sure what you are talking about.
Fine, the gap is inconceivable. This is one of the reasons why "main street" America has such a problem with the coastal "elites" and their enablers. The utter arrogance. You seem to think that everybody here is too stupid to be able to identify their own interests and work in favor of them. We need you and your wonderful statism to show us the way. Let Massachusetts do it however they want, I have no problem with that. But I will stay here in My Old Kentucky Home.
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BANGS
Banned
This is not acceptable post behaviour with the over the top profanity and groups insults.
mod edit: rhetoric and insulting comments removed. The rest is questionable as to whether it brings anything to the discussion. Consider this the benefit of the doubt.
Edit: Conservatives have always been scumbags imo. The GOP is a cancer. That's the norm, but supporting THIS fucking guy just blows my mind. That's the guy you wanna die for? Him? The antagonist from the 80's kids movie who buys the community center and shuts it down cuz the kids have too much fun? The guy who can't even get one sentence out of his mouth without sounding like a colossal dumbass? Just trying to read quotes from him gives me a fucking anyeurism, he's SO FUCKING STUPID.
And to top it all off, he's the whiniest chode ever. Some big Alpha he turned out to be. All he does is fucking bitch and moan on twitter. Suck it up motherfucker, put your big boy pants on and go to work.
Edit: Conservatives have always been scumbags imo. The GOP is a cancer. That's the norm, but supporting THIS fucking guy just blows my mind. That's the guy you wanna die for? Him? The antagonist from the 80's kids movie who buys the community center and shuts it down cuz the kids have too much fun? The guy who can't even get one sentence out of his mouth without sounding like a colossal dumbass? Just trying to read quotes from him gives me a fucking anyeurism, he's SO FUCKING STUPID.
And to top it all off, he's the whiniest chode ever. Some big Alpha he turned out to be. All he does is fucking bitch and moan on twitter. Suck it up motherfucker, put your big boy pants on and go to work.
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rokkerkory
Member
I would say that not all conservatives or liberals are scumbags but there definitely those that are hypocrites ie many Evangelicals who give Trump a pass with all his scandals, many failed marriages, how he talks about grabbing poo-c, etc. They just turn and look the other way. I am sorry but that behavior isn't condoned by the Bible.
It's okay because he;s doing something about abortion /s
BANGS
Banned
Well it's just like those that claim a president who wants to deport illegal immigrants is a racist despite Obama deporting more illegals than any president in history and puts Trump to shame in that department. People believe what they want to believe and support who they want to support. They ignore any inconveniences to their world view...
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