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[Karak]

The more negative press Microsoft gets, the more they're going to dole out the moneyhats to counterbalance the perception and always keep the demand where they need it to be to hit critical mass.

With all that investment and manpower going into creating software for XB1, there's bound to be a couple "killer apps" to get the console to critical mass in sales. It's not the Wii approach but its a brute force approach that's going to result in sales whether GAF likes it or not.

At some point they can't keep spending this cash though. I mean damn.

You're right but all of the games on the floor won't be shown on PS4 hardware, which to the press that's covering E3, will give the appearance that they are Xbox One exclusives or at least that XBO is the primary/lead platform. That is, if this is true, and if devs/pubs take the bribe.

This is what I was wondering about. I would think even some publishers would balk at that.

 

[ec0ec0]

Also, what happened to the threat about the money hat thing some hours ago? its was closed, but why?

 

[2600]

I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.

● The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
● Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
● A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
● Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
● Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
● ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
● ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
● ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
● A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
● Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
● Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
● And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
● And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
● On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
● Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
● One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.

Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:

● And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)


DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.


The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.

The proof is in the pudding. Holy goddamn fuck

This list isn't very convincing though, if only because everything is presented from such a subjective viewpoint, and peppered with loaded adjectives, etc. It obscures any objectivity your points may have had.

And gathering together disparate items with tenuous connection to each other gives a false sense of critical mass that really doesn't exist...or at least, only exists when looking at the list. If that makes sense. That's more of a public perception vs. passionate/obsessive enthusiast perception debate I guess.

 

[AkuMifune]

This is awful but also hilarious. What a poor and inefficient way to damage control. It seems history will repeat itself and the only way to make a console maker to understand is to not support it.

We can hope. The money they are going to throw at this problem and the apparent complicity of the games media on this issue has me worried we're in for a shitty gen where they throw their weight around and control the market somehow.

 

[LTWood12]

Why are none of the gaming websites at least mentioning this stuff? They'll post Kamiya tweets as news without a second thought, but not this?

 

[KojiKnight]

This list isn't very convincing though, if only because everything is presented from such a subjective viewpoint, and peppered with loaded adjectives, etc. It obscures any objectivity your points may have had.

And gathering together disparate items with tenuous connection to each other gives a false sense of critical mass that really doesn't exist...or at least, only exists when looking at the list. If that makes sense. That's more of a public perception vs. passionate/obsessive enthusiast perception debate I guess.

All it really takes though is for this list, however loaded they are perceived by some, to hit some of the bigger gaming press websites (and indeed, quite a few already have) and waves start to happen.

 

[Plinko]

Why are none of the gaming websites at least mentioning this stuff? They'll post Kamiya tweets as news without a second thought, but not this?

I think that's fairly obvious.

 

[LTWood12]

I think that's fairly obvious.

I'm genuinely asking. It isn't obvious to me.

 

[Karak]

All it really takes though is for this list, however loaded they are perceived by some, to hit some of the bigger gaming press websites (and indeed, quite a few already have) and waves start to happen.

I expect a good number of articles to be written after E3 that sort of follow this exact line of thought.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Also, what happened to the threat about the money hat thing some hours ago? its was closed, but why?

Unproven, more like whispers in the wind.

Fact remains, if Microsoft IS doing this, its a colossal waster of time and resources to deceive the group of consumers least likely to take your PR at face value. E3 Is not mainstream. Hardcore gamers will still know that PS4 of games will come out at some point, whether at the same time as xbone versions or further down the line.

 

[Fi Fo Nye]

No they were wrong standing by them would be stupid

So you're a troll. All thuway was wrong about was some dimensions. You sound like you were wrong about actual policies and developer relations, trying to defend Microsoft like a Senjutsu. No wonder you got called out.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm genuinely asking. It isn't obvious to me.

IGN for example is owned by News Corp. Microsoft has money. Does that answer your question now?

Nevermind, not anymore, but you get the idea.

 

[Plinko]

I'm genuinely asking. It isn't obvious to me.

Money, offers for exclusive interviews/previews, etc. I mean, CNN covered the XBone DRM stuff before IGN. Think about how insane that is.

 

[Karak]

So you're a troll. All thuway was wrong about was some dimensions. You sound like you were wrong about actual policies and developer relations, trying to defend Microsoft like a Senjutsu. No wonder you got name dropped.

Ok.

Unproven, more like whispers in the wind.

Fact remains, if Microsoft IS doing this, its a colossal waster of time and resources to deceive the group of consumers least likely to take your PR at face value. E3 Is not mainstream. Hardcore gamers will still know that PS4 of games will come out at some point, whether at the same time as xbone versions or further down the line.

MS has the money to do it but at some point they have to run out of gold in those coffers.

 

[GorillaJu]

This list isn't very convincing though, if only because everything is presented from such a subjective viewpoint, and peppered with loaded adjectives, etc. It obscures any objectivity your points may have had.

And gathering together disparate items with tenuous connection to each other gives a false sense of critical mass that really doesn't exist...or at least, only exists when looking at the list. If that makes sense. That's more of a public perception vs. passionate/obsessive enthusiast perception debate I guess.

Yes the list was definitely written with a specific bent to it. However that bent is just the same conclusions many of us came to on each individual piece of news as it was reported. What putting them all together does is remind everyone just how many blunders have been committed over the past couple of months. Anyone reading it would have to be aware that it is indeed a list on a forum written by a normal poster and not posing as a news article or official press in any capacity.

So yes, it is fairly convincing to see it all laid out just how poorly MS has handled this whole debacle.

 

[Amir0x]

All it really takes though is for this list, however loaded they are perceived by some, to hit some of the bigger gaming press websites (and indeed, quite a few already have) and waves start to happen.

My list has hit a website, or individual parts from this list have hit big websites? If my list did, I'd love to see a link for curiosities sake heh

 

[Karak]

My list has hit a website, or individual parts from this list have hit big websites? If my list did, I'd love to see a link for curiosities sake heh

So would I. Has it? Or maybe he means the individual points.

 

[maabus1999]

My list has hit a website, or individual parts from this list have hit big websites? If my list did, I'd love to see a link for curiosities sake heh

I have not seen anything other then general stories about hardcore gamers being upset with the reveal and possible drm policies. No individualized list.

 

[Jean Valjean]

Hey Amir0x:

The proverb is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". What you've used makes no sense.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_proof_is_in_the_pudding

"This phrase is a shortened form of the proof of the pudding is in the eating (14th century). The shorter version dates back to the 1920s and came into common use in the United States in the 1950s"

 

[Daingurse]

Essentially, Microsoft did not enter the console space because they saw opportunity - they entered because they saw threat. They didn't get in it to build a great gaming device, even if that ended up being the result to some, the overarching goal has been to quash the convergent living room bogeyman, and whoever was making it, that could have taken away the relevance of the Windows PC.

When you think about it, this really is true. The Xbone, an all-in-one media device for the living room was always the endgame. The original Xbox, a console I truly enjoyed, was a fucking experiment. The 360 was the foot in the door. Now that Microsoft has finally gained what they see as an appropriate amount of mind-share in the public's eye, they're going for it. That all-in one media hub, a jack of all trades entertainment device. They made great gaming-centric consoles in-spite of this original goal up until now, which is truly ironic.


They used the hardcore gamer as stepping stone. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Woggerman]

I'm genuinely asking. It isn't obvious to me.

Because to 90% of the gaming public, these things are not important. The most important thing is whether or not the system is going to have the games you want to play. If it soes, you buy it. If it doesn't you don't. Simple as that.

 

[LTWood12]

Money, offers for exclusive interviews/previews, etc. I mean, CNN covered the XBone DRM stuff before IGN. Think about how insane that is.

Not only have I not seen a story, I haven't seen so much as a tweet from ANY of the gaming press I follow commenting on this. Not even acknowledging it as rumor.

 

[Stripper13]

This whole thing has been a complete disaster for Microsoft.

As someone who is a big fan of many of their IPs - I really hope they get it together and release something awesome that isn't laughably inferior to the PS4's hardware.

There's just no words for the amount of mistakes and stupid PR/responses we've got over the last couple of weeks.

 

[Truespeed]

omg

Wow, I did not see those posts earlier.

lol Microsoft handing out money hats for just E3 reveals to make them look like exclusives.

hope that backfires big for Microsoft

The blowback would be hilarious if this were true. It's a pretty desperate and despicable move on their part. Although, all Sony has to do is announce those titles at their presser, regardless of the publisher being there, to level the playing field and thereby erasing any advantage they paid for.

 

[daebo]

My list has hit a website, or individual parts from this list have hit big websites? If my list did, I'd love to see a link for curiosities sake heh

I've only seen it by a forum poster on giantbomb forum and they used the entire list.

 

[Mononoke]

This list isn't very convincing though, if only because everything is presented from such a subjective viewpoint, and peppered with loaded adjectives, etc. It obscures any objectivity your points may have had.

And gathering together disparate items with tenuous connection to each other gives a false sense of critical mass that really doesn't exist...or at least, only exists when looking at the list. If that makes sense. That's more of a public perception vs. passionate/obsessive enthusiast perception debate I guess.

His interpretation of each incident is subjective. But even if you remove his comments, it shows a long list of bad press/ and poor decisions by MS.

 

[braves01]

I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.

That list is mindblowing. Hard to believe MS is so far off base at this point.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

So you're a troll. All thuway was wrong about was some dimensions. You sound like you were wrong about actual policies and developer relations, trying to defend Microsoft like a Senjutsu. No wonder you got called out.

Wow, a junior calling a member a troll. I gotta read the gaming side more often.

 

[MogCakes]

its a brute force approach that's going to result in sales whether GAF likes it or not.

Most of us know it's going to sell - it just won't sell well with people who are aware of all this. MS can't keep up that brute force strategy to dominance, but it will net them a good sized userbase.

 

[Plinko]

Not only have I not seen a story, I haven't seen so much as a tweet from ANY of the gaming press I follow commenting on this. Not even acknowledging it as rumor.

Because nobody wants to be the site blacklisted by one of the big three, especially when the new systems are about to launch.

Journalistic integrity doesn't seem to apply in the gaming world.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Ok.



MS has the money to do it but at some point they have to run out of gold in those coffers.

Having the money to do it is not the point.

any advantage in doing this would be obliterated by the consoles launch as the hardcore would be informed about any PS4 release by then.

Casuals may not, but casuals wont be watching E3 anyway.

Honestly the only thing this would do is allow microsoft to "Win" E3. Something only the most pathetic fanboy gives a shit about.

Im not saying its bullshit, but if it is true, whoever thought this was a good idea will be fired by the consoles launch.

 

[Dosia]

Because nobody wants to be the site blacklisted by one of the big three, especially when the new systems are about to launch.

Journalistic integrity doesn't seem to apply in the gaming world.

Does it apply anywhere nowadays?

 

[Karak]

Having the money to do it is not the point.

any advantage in doing this would be obliterated by the consoles launch as the hardcore would be informed about any PS4 release by then.

Casuals may not, but casuals wont be watching E3 anyway.

Honestly the only thing this would do is allow microsoft to "Win" E3. Something only the most pathetic fanboy gives a shit about.

Im not saying its bullshit, but if it is true, whoever thought this was a good idea will be fired by the consoles launch.

Well agreed. I am just saying financially...it makes better sense to spend your money elsewhere. Cause that is just throwing money away.

 

[CLEEK]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_proof_is_in_the_pudding

"This phrase is a shortened form of the proof of the pudding is in the eating (14th century). The shorter version dates back to the 1920s and came into common use in the United States in the 1950s"

Americans murdering my beautiful language. Soon "I could care less" will be seen as a valid version of "I couldn't care less".

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pro1.htm

 

[Qvoth]

just found out about update 2
any new response from senjutsusage yet?
he is the one putting his account on the line here

 

[Eusis]

I have a feeling it'll work more on journalists who don't have the time to check and are prone to being more enthusiastic than skeptical, and it'll likely be an advantage that evaporates long before launch anyway.

 

[Pandemic]

Why does this sound like a war is about to start... This all sounds extremely serious.. Or is it all being blown out of proportion?

 

[CDX]

Two of our most trusted neoGAF insiders have said that Microsoft is reacting hard to what has went down, and so they're going to try to dismantle PS4's image as a "for gamers" console by paying publishers and devs to not show their multiplatform titles during E3 on a PS4. In other words, even if the multiplatform version is coming out for the PS4, they won't be able to show them at E3, thus contributing to the perception that somehow Sony is getting significantly less support for PS4 than Microsoft is "for gamers."

Of course, I'm sure multiplatform games will slip through - they can't possibly pay everyone - but it's extremely telling how they're choosing to spend their money. Rather than do the thing everyone wants, which is end the anti-consumer nonsense, they'll spend their time trying to deceive everyone instead. That should say it all about Microsoft since this year started

Microsoft, that's just pathetic

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Why are none of the gaming websites at least mentioning this stuff? They'll post Kamiya tweets as news without a second thought, but not this?

It's thanks to CBoaT's way of posting. They can't really use that as a source.

We at NeoGAF however, believe in CBoaT thanks to his amazing track record.

 

[MogCakes]

Well agreed. I am just saying financially...it makes better sense to spend your money elsewhere. Cause that is just throwing money away.

They are almost literally burning money away - spending heap loads to have preferential treatment at E3. Assuming the rumor's true at any rate.

 

[LTWood12]

Because to 90% of the gaming public, these things are not important. The most important thing is whether or not the system is going to have the games you want to play. If it soes, you buy it. If it doesn't you don't. Simple as that.

That same percentage probably doesn't read gaming websites at all (though i doubt it's 90%). But your line of logic is without merit. So I guess this vast majority cares about unboxing videos, reviews of indie titles, etc., since we get articles about them.

 

[Templar_Dante]

omg

Wow, I did not see those posts earlier.

lol Microsoft handing out money hats for just E3 reveals to make them look like exclusives.

hope that backfires big for Microsoft

This dissapoints me so much...
There is a line one shouldnt cross, thats just a dirty dirty game their playing. Me, personally, I cant support a company that does this.

 

[ec0ec0]

we are here taking about all the things that microsoft has done wrong but, if i asked some of my friends, they would know nothing about it.

 

[Truespeed]

That list is mindblowing. Hard to believe MS is so far off base at this point.

It's not hard to lose focus when you're trying to battle Google or be like Apple. The Xbox One obviously wasn't a priority and throwing money at it to fill in the gaping gaps is just a band-aid.

 

[Plinko]

Does it apply anywhere nowadays?

Touché.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Because nobody wants to be the site blacklisted by one of the big three, especially when the new systems are about to launch.

They will be blacklisted from press list only if they break embargo or NDA. Last time I heard of a site getting blacklisted was Kotaku (PS Home), but that was way back.

 

[Woggerman]

That same percentage probably doesn't read gaming websites at all (though i doubt it's 90%). But your line of logic is without merit. So I guess this vast majority cares about unboxing videos, reviews of indie titles, etc., since we get articles about them.

Talk about reaching. I'm just saying that issues with the technical specifications, money-hatting, whether the demo was faked or not is of no concern to most gamers. They care when and on what system they will play the next Call of Duty or Uncharted or Forza. What happens up to that point is of no consequence. They just want the games they want to play. I am also not saying it is not relevant. All of this is important to me. But we are a very vocal minority. Websites and press want the most views and broader coverage. They aren't going to sell this stuff to the Walmart crowd. It's just reality.

 

[vazel]

we are here taking about all the things that microsoft has done wrong but, if i asked some of my friends, they would know nothing about it.

That's why you as someone that knows better, need to edify them. And then hopefully they'll tell their friends and so on.

 

[Replicant]

I'm surprised honestly... we've known about Microsoft's dirty dealings for decades at this point (forcing IE on every windows PC in the US, and every country that didn't ban them from doing so, cutting people's OEM discounts if they stocked non-windows computers, intentionally making opera and other non-IE browsers display the microsoft/MSN/hotmail webpages incorrectly, etc)

Now you mentioned it, I guess it's kind of true. I remember how MS rep suddenly became uncooperative (not responding to calls, messing up orders, etc) when they found out that our uni would not order as many Windows 7 licenses as we had XP. Some students demanded OSX on the machines so our uni wanted half Windows/half Apple licenses (we were running mostly XP licenses for a long while). But since they were being total pain about it our uni eventually decided to just go OSX all the way. Served them right.

That's why you as someone that knows better, need to edify them. And then hopefully they'll tell their friends and so on.

This. This is important if we want the mass market to not fall for MS marketing tactics.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Based on looking at the gaming performance of equivalent AMD cards, having 50% more CUs can lead to a 100% increase in frame rate (e.g. twice the performance) This isn't idle speculation, or fanboy induced fantasy mathematics, but actual real world metrics.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/536?vs=549

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60303153&postcount=1180

Nice try, but HD 7770 have a 128 bit bus, whereas HD 7850 have a 256 bit bus, and double VRAM. More than biased comparison, take care when introducing the term fanboy :/

So you're saying if it goes from 1.3Tflops to .8Tflops it will be less than a linear change in performance?

It can be less, it can be more. Every architecture have a performance sweetspot. Reached a point, adding more proccessors may be futile, since others aspects of the design could be bottlenecking the final output (as seen on most high end proposals). On the other hand, at lower end chips, every muscle you add may improve the performance greatly, since it will be probably starving.