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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
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I like being naive from time to time. But for me that was never an option. So Mr Glove can Punch harder then the Iron Fist, neat
I know the Doppelganger has all of Coop's pre-1991 memories. But my point was that when Jeffries talks to Coop in FWWM, he seems to think that's the Doppelganger, not Coop. So is Jeffries carrying a conversation with what he thinks is the same man? Or is he, like you said, just referencing the fact that the Doppelganger would have Coop's memory of the real Coop speaking to Jeffries?
The grown manbaby that is Dougie-Coop.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Ah, yeah. I can see that.
For me it was absolutely brilliant and unprecedented how this show is dealing with unavailable (for whatever reason) cast. They are committed to including everyone they need to, however they need to, but also crafting a story and presentation that allows for the obvious limitations in certain instances.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
but why do they need jeffries, and what does that character have, without bowie, that desmond doesn't?
plagiarize
Banned
But that's not really a person so much as a mental state Agent Cooper is in. Just because he wakes up doesn't mean you couldn't get 'Dougie' back by giving him a concussion or whatever.
We don't know why Chris Issak isn't in the show either. So he's not necessarily an option at all. We also don't know how late they found out David couldn't do it. Maybe they were hoping he'd find time to get somewhere and shoot something. He could have been anywhere and they could have mixed him in instead of the teapot.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Aside from Chris Isaak potentially having no interest, we have seen multiple interactions involving Jeffries and the rest of the Blue Rose Krew that have powerfully echoed throughout this series.
I mean raise your hand if you ACTUALLY thought we'd find out about Judy in this thing!!!!
John Dunbar
correct about everything
but all that stuff was introduced in the third season. you could have just switched pretty much everything from jeffries to desmond and nothing would change. it's not like jeffries had any major role in the original run or fwwm, and desmond could know about judy just as well. though i have no idea who judy is and i imagine i will not care.
isaak not wanting to do it would certainly be an acceptable reason (i actually tried googling while back why isaak is not on the show, but couldn't find anything. i guess no one has even asked him about it, which is odd since i don't think he's a recluse or anything), but i feel like we would have heard something about it if he had even been asked to do it.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
They've showed the FWWM sequence twice already. I just thoroughly disagree. Jeffries was established to have been deeply affected by these entities and other worlds and whatever.
Desmond disappeared. Honestly with allll the magical stuff they packed into this season, I don't think there was room to explain a whole 25 years of interim for Desmond when you could just leave it as Jeffries and have all this stuff already built in.
Also, without Sam, Desmond sucks.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I think I had the same reaction he did the first time I saw Sunset Boulevard (it was after Twin Peaks).
plagiarize
Banned
Honestly, at this point, I don't care who Kyle is playing when he's on my screen. I've loved all of it.
VistraNorrez
Member
I think it's just how they planned things. Remember Lynch would have made a movie focusing on Jeffries if FWWM was a success. Plus as far as they knew when writing the season Bowie was healthy.
I think the plans for Chet Desmond were too different to consolidate with the Jeffries role. I think the FWWM scene was more important than we can imagine.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
jeffries also "just" disappeared. and i agree that something was going on with jeffries, but that doesn't change the fact that bowie is dead and without him the whole jeffries thing has felt totally hollow. and explaining desmond's disapparence would not have taken any more explanatation than that of jeffries, so i really don't know what you are talking about there, and using the clip from fwwm only serves as a reminder that the only interesting thing about the character is gone.
isaak being unwillining to do it is really the only good reason to go with jeffries. the characters are pretty much entirely same: fbi agents who disappeared for mysterious reasons. whatever experiences jeffries had could easily be shifted on desmond.
Buttonbasher
Member
Hmm...
Yeah I was in disbelief that they actually mentioned that name again, let alone furthered the plot.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
It looked like Ed was willing Norma to be with him while his eyes were closed. He was smiling before Norma touched his shoulder.
plagiarize
Banned
He wasn't the only one willing her to do what she did.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
What do you mean? I was a bit cabernet'd last night.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Agree to disagree I guess. Jeffries was just a more interesting character.
Yeah, Bowie died, obviously, but this is a much more ingenious way to keep the charac on the show than like a CGI Tarkin.
Oh shit, also, sorry, shit, this show has actually explained what happened to Desmond, I just realized this. He touched the ring. He ended up in the lodge.
Yeah, I don't know. Is it that you think it's disrespectful to have a Jeffries without Bowie?
That's a whole other story. I think this show is in very uncharted territory as far as cast unavailability and replacement and time passing and all kinds of stuff. I think, as with all things on this show, it is what it is and, for me at least, you just kind of marvel at how it's all been put together.
plagiarize
Banned
I'm talking about the audience, myself included. You weren't willing things to work out as well?
VistraNorrez
Member
Consider all the things that have been referenced from the FWWM/TMP scene. We have the convenience store, Judy, "Who do you think this/that is there", Buenos Aires, and I'm sure there are other things. These would have to transfer to Desmond.
The way I see it is that Gordon Cole is to Philip Jeffries as Dale Cooper is to Chet Desmond. You can't just substitute Desmond in because his character is not in the same mold.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Oh ha, of course. I thought I missed something else.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Much more succinct, thank you.
Also, I feel like this confirms maybe that red light black box thing is also a Jeffries conduit?
Can I get a ONE ONE NINE??
miazakiplz
Member
If you watch the scene from last night again, it appears that what Mr.C is seeing is a projection of some sorts. Jeffries/thing portraying Jeffries is not actually in the room. The door number is 8 and in a similar font to the 3, 6 and 15 numbers we have seen.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
don't care about that, it's just a character. it's just that the only truly interesting thing about the character was the actor who played him, so all the phone calls and mentions of "phillip jeffries" just felt empty since i didn't believe for a second bowie might actually have filmed something for the show, so i knew it would end up being something disappointing, and it did with the kettle.
honestly, i see absolutely zero difficulty in moving that stuff over to desmond. all this is so fucking vague anyway that it would be no problem whatsoever.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Has anyone made out what the garbled voice says when the convenience store disappears?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
there's a g-g-g-g-g-g-garbled voice???
Man, I loved that episode. Really surprised we'll be getting Judy stuff out of this season, I never dared to hope for that.
Also, I'm pretty convinced we're getting Cooper back next episode now, I hope I'm not wrong on that but nothing in the past has come close to sticking a fork in an electrical outlet with such intent. Though I'll really miss Dougie-Coop too if so.
And don't answer that, no spoilers. I know they're out there.
Also, I'm pretty convinced we're getting Cooper back next episode now, I hope I'm not wrong on that but nothing in the past has come close to sticking a fork in an electrical outlet with such intent. Though I'll really miss Dougie-Coop too if so.
And don't answer that, no spoilers. I know they're out there.
I bet the next time we see Cooper it'll be the shot in the trailer of him emerging from the darkness... his dark house. And he'll be back to "normal".
With the Log Lady's death, I think we can throw out the theory that the Hawk scene in Part 2 at Glastonbury Grove was a flash-forward.
With the Log Lady's death, I think we can throw out the theory that the Hawk scene in Part 2 at Glastonbury Grove was a flash-forward.
Dougie didn't die. Coop's mind was transferred back into Coop's body via electricity. Dougie was already gone.
miazakiplz
Member
Judy could well be another term for Laura Palmer. If you watch Hitchcock's Vertigo then it seems to point to that. Judy could also be Joan Chen as she was originally supposed to play this character (according to one of the writers of FWWM they Judy was Josie's twin). This could also mean Judy is Naido but we don't have any reference to Mr.C meeting Naido before so I think that hint is supposed to suggest someone we've seen him meet (either as Mr.C/Dale Cooper). So lots of options lol.
what?
If the series ends with Coop getting hit in the head and reverting back to his Dougie persona...I don't know how I'll react
I think the big difference between their characters is that Jeffries introduced and positioned in the overall story as someone who's in the know -- he has answers or at least experiences related to the bigger Twin Peaks cosmos -- whereas Desmond is a guy who didn't know anything and then disappeared.
Of course you could just transfer all that stuff over to Desmond, except now you've just made Desmond into Jeffries and left the actual Jeffries hanging out like a loose end. Just seems more succinct in terms of telling a narrative to use the Jeffries you already have instead of abandoning him and reintroducing another old character who is functionally the same as Jeffries.
minor effort
Banned
I kind of hope we get to see what Richard and Mr. C talk about after getting in the truck. I was interested in seeing that conversation but we didn't get it this week.
Laura Palmer: "I'll see you in 25 years"
Dougie: "25. Years. See you."
I like to think Bowie is sitting somewhere right now laughing his ass off that he became a teapot in the show and loving it.
Thank Dougie.
VistraNorrez
Member
You might not, but clearly Lynch/Frost do see a problem. They have an idea about what Jeffries is and it doesn't line up with what Desomnd is. That's important.
Why keep it this way otherwise? You are on the right track questioning the decision here, but I think you go down the wrong path when your conclusion is to change it. "Why is Jeffries important?" is a good question. It might be one of the most important questions of this season.
miazakiplz
Member
Laura is the one. It's one of her most famous lines.
I'm predicting Judy is Annie. It would somewhat explain her existence, and her speaking to Laura in the past, as well as her disappearance without any notice. I then would also predict that Heather Graham was secretly filmed but has been putting up a front on any talk shows asking about it. Maybe her name is Judith Anne or something.
diunxx
Member
I loved this image, you can really see Lynch's experience as a painter on display in the lighting and composition of the scene.
Bowie truly is a chameleon.
Intheflorsh
Banned
I noticed that one of the Woodsmen has the same blood gushing from mouth problem that Billy and the guy in the cell do, interesting.
good point
Whoops typo, meant to say "No more 'Richard is Johnny Horne's son' theories".
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