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[Clear]

I don't see any way that all this can be wrapped up in a meaningful way in 3 episodes.

Oh well.

A lot of stuff has been wrapped up already. That's pretty much what the last few episodes have been doing.

A lot of pieces have been moved off the board already, and its unreasonable to expect there not to be more than a few red-herring strands and plotting which is tangential shading to the primary arc.

My take remains that the title of the series "The Return" is key to understanding Frost and Lynch's intentions. The whole run is about characters being drawn back to TP, however some (like Dougie-Coop) have had further to go than others! Even Mr C who appears powerful and in control of his destiny is finding himself sucked back to where it all began.

It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the "Spider" has been sat waiting at the centre of the web all this time, so the final confrontation should come quickly once all the "flies" are back in town.

 

[plagiarize]

You mean a physical release? Because The Twin Peaks Archive is an official release since the tracks were available on David Lynch's website a couple of years ago. He's selling them for $9.90 right now by the way, that's crazy value for 212 tracks/10 hours of music.

I do mean a physical release. A big fancy giant box that costs like $300 or something. Not joking.

 

[Airola]

My girlfriend and I have been rewatching(her watching for the first time) in anticipation for the finale.

Episode 8 is fine but I still think it's a little too far up it's own ass to be a "masterpiece" or "the best hour of television ever" like over seen thrown around.
I think it's haunting, important to the series, and downright fantastic. But the praise I've seen scream "I get it and I'm a part of the club that likes subversive things for the sake of being subversive" maybe that's just me though.

Yeah, I don't think it was a masterpiece either. It probably was the weirdest hour of television and certainly very interesting to watch, but I don't think it was a masterpiece. The end of the episode wasn't that great either. It was a good episode, yeah, but not my favorite episode in the season. And when none of the greater episodes so far have felt like masterpieces I can't really say that episode was a masterpiece either.

I think that maybe at least episodes 3, 7, 11 and 13 have been better than 8. The Naido scene in episode 3 has been the best surreal moment in the series so far. Better than anything in episode 8, which in my opinion even had a moment that almost drags the whole thing down: the Laura orb. I don't like the idea of Laura being even remotely something like a godly "Jesus figure" at all. The nuke stuff was still great though, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say it (and the giant stuff and the woodsmen stuff) makes the episode a masterpiece. I need more than that for anything to be a masterpiece.

A lot of stuff has been wrapped up already. That's pretty much what the last few episodes have been doing.

A lot of pieces have been moved off the board already, and its unreasonable to expect there not to be more than a few red-herring strands and plotting which is tangential shading to the primary arc.

"In a meaningful way" though.

Some pieces have been moved off the board by just having them be assassinated or like in Chad's case just suddenly saying "we have been watching you for months" and throwing him in jail (that was the end of the letter plot). I'm not too fond of them first getting a riddle and then Bobby just saying "I know where that is" either.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Some pieces have been moved off the board by just having them be assassinated or like in Chad's case just suddenly saying "we have been watching you for months" and throwing him in jail (that was the end of the letter plot). I'm not too fond of them first getting a riddle and then Bobby just saying "I know where that is" either.

That was the point though. Garland wanted Bobby to solve it - it's part of their arc that's been part of the show since the start.

 

[VistraNorrez]

That was the point though. Garland wanted Bobby to solve it - it's part of their arc that's been part of the show since the start.

I mean we are dealing with a show that an FBI agent learns of Laura Palmer's killer in a dream but forgets when he wakes up. And earlier in the day he threw rocks at bottles to eliminate suspects.

What is meaningful to one person won't be to another. I don't care about plot elements wrapping up, but I do want themeatic resolution. Lynch has never failed there for me.

 

[Airola]

That was the point though. Garland wanted Bobby to solve it - it's part of their arc that's been part of the show since the start.

Not that good way to show it though. Instead of taking time to show them walking in the woods that long, they could've written that mystery getting unraveled in much meatier ways.

 

[Chitown B]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. But on my full rewatch I can't think of scenes where he directly says anything about that situation. I think it all has just been implied falsely.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. But on my full rewatch I can't think of scenes where he directly says anything about that situation. I think it all has just been implied falsely.

Bad Coop sent Hutch to kill Dougie. That conflict is likely going down this episode.

They both can't exist outside of the Black Lodge. One has to die, and Bad Coop wants to stay out.

But Evil Cooper calls Duncan Todd in Part 9...

Also, this. We know Todd has been trying to kill Dougie. So, it's clear Mr. C is his employer and, thus, wants Dougie dead.

 

[Cheebo]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. But on my full rewatch I can't think of scenes where he directly says anything about that situation. I think it all has just been implied falsely.

Mike told Dougie Coop that both Mr. C and him can't both exist. One has to die.

 

[PolishQ]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. But on my full rewatch I can't think of scenes where he directly says anything about that situation. I think it all has just been implied falsely.

But Evil Cooper calls Duncan Todd in Part 9...

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

I think in the end they will merge together in matrimony

Mr. C + Dougie <3

 

[mittelos]

It only just occurred to me that Bad Coop isn't the one trying to kill Dougie. If he kills him they'll both disappear. That's why he killed anyone who was trying to kill Dougie. I think in the end they will merge together.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. But on my full rewatch I can't think of scenes where he directly says anything about that situation. I think it all has just been implied falsely.

I think the "kill Dougie" plot works like this (and I think it was PolishQ who I first saw put this Lorraine part together): Jeffries, or someone pretending to be Jeffries, hired Lorraine to kill 'Dougie' and it had to be done before the time that Bad Coop was to be pulled back into the lodge...that way there would be no 'Dougie' to get pulled in place of Bad Coop and Bad Coop would get sucked in, and Bob would be reunited with the lodge. So the guys waiting outside at Rancho Rosa when Jade and 'unwoke Coop' are leaving are working for Lorraine. And by that time they'd failed anyway due to timing. They don't know it yet and go ahead and plant the bomb on his car when they don't see Dougie in Jade's car. I think the guys that get blown up by the bomb are just random car thieves that had really shitty luck that day.

Anyway, Lorraine fails. Bad Coop finds out about their conspiracy and asks Todd/Ike to take her out, along with unwoke 'Coop'. As we see, Todd/Ike/Anthony all fail taking out unwoke Coop, so he's sent Hutch and Chantal to finish the job.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Put me in the "Episode 8 was the best hour of television ever/masterpiece" camp.

 

[PolishQ]

I think the "kill Dougie" plot works like this (and I think it was PolishQ who I first saw put this Lorraine part together): Jeffries, or someone pretending to be Jeffries, hired Lorraine to kill 'Dougie' and it had to be done before the time that Bad Coop was to be pulled back into the lodge...that way there would be no 'Dougie' to get pulled in place of Bad Coop and Bad Coop would get sucked in, and Bob would be reunited with the lodge. So the guys waiting outside at Rancho Rosa when Jade and 'unwoke Coop' are leaving are working for Lorraine. And by that time they'd failed anyway due to timing. They don't know it yet and go ahead and plant the bomb on his car when they don't see Dougie in Jade's car. I think the guys that get blown up by the bomb are just random car thieves that had really shitty luck that day.

Anyway, Lorraine fails. Bad Coop finds out about their conspiracy and asks Todd/Ike to take her out, along with unwoke 'Coop'. As we see, Todd/Ike/Anthony all fail taking out unwoke Coop, so he's sent Hutch and Chantal to finish the job.

Funny you mention me, because I disagree... although I may have changed my mind somewhere along the way.

Duncan Todd has always been working for Evil Coop. In Part 1 when he says "tell her she has the job" he's referring to Lorraine. Lorraine hires the thugs to kill Cooper after he switches places with Dougie. The thugs fail, so Todd hires Ike to kill Lorraine and Cooper. After Ike fails, Todd hires Anthony to do the job. Since everyone keeps failing, Evil Cooper sends Hutch and Chantal to Las Vegas to kill Todd and Cooper.

The only weird part about Lorraine is that she sends the code to the Argentina box, which many people take to mean that she's working for Jeffries. But we now know that Jeffries is NOT in Argentina, he's at the Dutchman's (i.e. "nowhere"), and we know that Evil Cooper has access to the Argentina box from that same episode when he makes the call from the prison. So the box seems to be one of Evil Cooper's communication devices, so that he can route calls/messages through South America and discourage attempts to trace him. In his prison call, he sends a message to self-destruct the device, since he apparently doesn't need it any more.

Why was Lorraine instructed to send a message to the box instead of reporting directly to Todd? People criticize that because it seems like she's going over Todd's head, but we know that Todd prefers to keep himself clean (he uses gloves when handling the envelope for Ike). So it does make sense that he would instruct her to send updates to the secure untraceable box.

Hey, remember when we thought that the box WAS Jeffries?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

]Hey, remember when we thought that the box WAS Jeffries?

Psh, I knew he was going to be a talking tea kettle the entire time.

 

[snausagesUK]

Put me in the "Episode 8 was the best hour of television ever/masterpiece" camp.

Pine Barrens is still GOAT

 

[Chitown B]

Bad Coop sent Hutch to kill Dougie. That conflict is likely going down this episode.

They both can't exist outside of the Black Lodge. One has to die, and Bad Coop wants to stay out.

Also, this. We know Todd has been trying to kill Dougie. So, it's clear Mr. C is his employer and, thus, wants Dougie dead.

Thanks. I guess I forgot that stuff. However I don't think one has to die. Doesn't Mike just say "don't die"? I have a feeling that they will merge in the end. It's shown to Andy in 14 that they split apart.

So why does Bad Coop care about killing Todd and the hit lady that Spike killed? Both were people trying to kill Dougie, that he put hits on. Seems extraneous to do that - and he had hired the duo to kill people way before Todd failed.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Pine Barrens is still GOAT

If you'd said "Here Was A Man" I'd at least have given you second place.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Why was Lorraine instructed to send a message to the box instead of reporting directly to Todd? People criticize that because it seems like she's going over Todd's head, but we know that Todd prefers to keep himself clean (he uses gloves when handling the envelope for Ike). So it does make sense that he would instruct her to send updates to the secure untraceable box.

Hey, remember when we thought that the box WAS Jeffries?

In addition to this I'd say that him not being as careful afterwards just shows his desperation at getting the job done for Mr. C, it's clear he's very scared of him.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Thanks. I guess I forgot that stuff. However I don't think one has to die. Doesn't Mike just say "don't die"? I have a feeling that they will merge in the end. It's shown to Andy in 14 that they split apart.

So why does Bad Coop care about killing Todd and the hit lady that Spike killed? Both were people trying to kill Dougie, that he put hits on. Seems extraneous to do that - and he had hired the duo to kill people way before Todd failed.

On Gerard's first appearance to Coop once he assumes the role of Dougie, he says 'you were tricked. Now one of you must die' (or something very similar).

Later he appears again urging Coop to 'wake up... don't die'

 

[Chitown B]

On Gerard's first appearance to Coop once he assumes the role of Dougie, he says 'you were tricked. Now one of you must die' (or something very similar).

Later he appears again urging Coop to 'wake up... don't die'

You were tricked. Now one of you must die

Yeah, good point. But to me that could be metaphorical death, during the merge. We'll see. Way too much going on in this show.

 

[JBourne]

Psh, I knew he was going to be a talking tea kettle the entire time.

Really, I don't see how anyone who watched FWWM is surprised by this. It's the only logical direction they could've gone in.

Jeffries is a teapot now.

 

[Frost_Ace]

Pine Barrens is still GOAT

Loads of Sopranos episode are better than Pine Barrens imho.

 

[PizzaFace]

Now that we know 2:53 is the time when lodge inhabitants can enter the world (Cooper, Naido), I'm starting to wonder if between Laura's "yet I live" and her seemingly being dragged out of the waiting room, if some version of Laura is out in Twin Peaks...

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Loads of Sopranos episode are better than Pine Barrens imho.

And every episode of Deadwood is better than those

 

[Kerned]

Now that we know 2:53 is the time when lodge inhabitants can enter the world (Cooper, Naido), I'm starting to wonder if between Laura's "yet I live" and her seemingly being dragged out of the waiting room, if some version of Laura is out in Twin Peaks...

I think so, yes.

 

[plagiarize]

Put me in the "Episode 8 was the best hour of television ever/masterpiece" camp.

I saved you a seat.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I saved you a seat.

One for me too please!!

 

[plagiarize]

I'm so excited for Part 16. It's the last time we'll be hanging on for a week to find out what happens next for the foreseeable future (if indeed the last time ever). September 3rd is going to be a completely different viewing experience to anything else I've done (never marathoned anything as long as The Return before). Getting about one new hour of this a week has been a fantastic experience. It's been a rollercoaster of surprises.

In a little over a week, we'll be talking about The Return as a whole, with complete knowledge of the events within effecting our enjoyment of every part. We'll still speculate about what it all meant of course, but this speculation of what's going to happen next has been wonderful and I'm really happy that you lot have been part of that.

I've talked to a lot of people in real life. I've listened to a lot of podcasts. I've phoned multiple people up after the episodes have ended. It's been a blast, and while we aren't at the end yet, I just thought I'd share these feelings as we approach the final few episodes.

 

[mittelos]

Funny you mention me, because I disagree... although I may have changed my mind somewhere along the way.

Duncan Todd has always been working for Evil Coop. In Part 1 when he says "tell her she has the job" he's referring to Lorraine. Lorraine hires the thugs to kill Cooper after he switches places with Dougie. The thugs fail, so Todd hires Ike to kill Lorraine and Cooper. After Ike fails, Todd hires Anthony to do the job. Since everyone keeps failing, Evil Cooper sends Hutch and Chantal to Las Vegas to kill Todd and Cooper.

The only weird part about Lorraine is that she sends the code to the Argentina box, which many people take to mean that she's working for Jeffries. But we now know that Jeffries is NOT in Argentina, he's at the Dutchman's (i.e. "nowhere"), and we know that Evil Cooper has access to the Argentina box from that same episode when he makes the call from the prison. So the box seems to be one of Evil Cooper's communication devices, so that he can route calls/messages through South America and discourage attempts to trace him. In his prison call, he sends a message to self-destruct the device, since he apparently doesn't need it any more.

Why was Lorraine instructed to send a message to the box instead of reporting directly to Todd? People criticize that because it seems like she's going over Todd's head, but we know that Todd prefers to keep himself clean (he uses gloves when handling the envelope for Ike). So it does make sense that he would instruct her to send updates to the secure untraceable box.

Hey, remember when we thought that the box WAS Jeffries?

Ha, sorry it may not have been you, but either way, now you've made me change my mind again. Evil Coop manipulating the Argentina box does pretty much kill the version I posted.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm so excited for Part 16. It's the last time we'll be hanging on for a week to find out what happens next for the foreseeable future (if indeed the last time ever). September 3rd is going to be a completely different viewing experience to anything else I've done (never marathoned anything as long as The Return before). Getting about one new hour of this a week has been a fantastic experience. It's been a rollercoaster of surprises.

In a little over a week, we'll be talking about The Return as a whole, with complete knowledge of the events within effecting our enjoyment of every part. We'll still speculate about what it all meant of course, but this speculation of what's going to happen next has been wonderful and I'm really happy that you lot have been part of that.

I've talked to a lot of people in real life. I've listened to a lot of podcasts. I've phoned multiple people up after the episodes have ended. It's been a blast, and while we aren't at the end yet, I just thought I'd share these feelings as we approach the final few episodes.

NaidoHandhold.gif

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

So...why is Jeffries a kettle now?

 

[Solo]

To get the conversation percolating.

 

[A-V-B]

So...why is Jeffries a kettle now?

Because Bowie died and David Lynch loves industrial imagery.

 

[Chitown B]

it's an electrical node with a smoke exhaust. he's always moved through electricity

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

To get the conversation percolating.

That smells a little fishy.

 

[Joqu]

the way I interpreted things is that he "went native" to the place above the convenience store after all these years.

 

[Frost_Ace]

How THE HELL does a fish get into a percolator anyway?

 

[Linkin112]

How THE HELL does a fish get into a percolator anyway?

Very carefully

 

[Levito]

Regarding "answers" and the finale:


Having just watched all of Lynch's filmography over the past couple months, one thing I've realized is he likes to leave a lot of lingering questions. This goes from stuff like Inland Empire which is one giant mindfuck, to The Straight Story--probably his most "traditional" film has a fairly up in the air ending. He doesn't like to talk about what his films are about and thinks explaining them would cheat the audience. For example one of the best scenes in Mulholland Drive is the diner scene, it sticks out to me so much because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the plot but it also gives you enough hints to maybe unlock the mystery of everything that went on in the film. Mulling that over is a lot more satisfying than someone just explaining the whole thing at a podium, at least to me anyways.


So I think if you're really expecting every question to be answered, you are most certainly going to be disappointed. Some of this stuff is so strange that I'm pretty convinced a lot of straight up explanations would probably sound ridiculous. (Like, really--how on Earth would an explanation for David Bowie being a teapot not sound stupid no matter how well thought out it was? lol best left to your imagination I say)


For me personally, I've gotten so much enjoyment out of The Return, and just Twin Peaks in general that the finale could just be James playing at the Roadhouse for two hours and I wouldn't have regretted the experience of Twin Peaks as a whole. Despite how much I love the lore and weird surrealism; my favorite moments have been the character moments. Seeing Bobby become a stand up dude, Big Ed and Norma finally getting together, The Mitchum brothers befriending Dougie, the Log Lady saying goodbye--these are the best parts for me.


I'll miss the laughs, I'll miss the weirdness, I'll miss the mysteries, I'll miss the scares, I'll miss the characters, I'll miss the coffee and Cherry pie; I'll just miss Twin Peaks in general, cause I'm so thankful for this ride.

 

[EdmondD]

In the book Secret History of Twin Peaks they talk about how much Philip Jeffries loved tea. Similar to how Coop loves his coffee. He was absolutely obsessed with it so I guess he decided to make himself into a giant tea kettle.

Spoiler

I never read that book.

 

[Kadayi]

I know someone suggested recasting Tilda Swinton as Jefferies and I kind of would of like to have seen that

 

[Zach]

Psh, I knew he was going to be a talking tea kettle the entire time.

It was pretty obvious.

 

[Cripplegate]

I know someone suggested recasting Tilda Swinton as Jefferies and I kind of would of like to have seen that

I could have lived with that.

It's still blowing my mind that they were talking about Judy. Even with how much Jeffries we've had this season, I never expected that to come up again as a relevant plot detail.

 

[PolishQ]

I could have lived with that.

It's still blowing my mind that they were talking about Judy. Even with how much Jeffries we've had this season, I never expected that to come up again as a relevant plot detail.

FWWM is the real pilot of this season.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

FWWM is the real pilot of this season.

I plan on starting with FWWM and then going right into The Return.

Prolly never watch the OG series again. It seems so diluted compared to those.

 

[Ashby]

Prolly never watch the OG series again. It seems so diluted compared to those.

Come on, man.

 

[Slaythe]

In the book Secret History of Twin Peaks they talk about how much Philip Jeffries loved tea. Similar to how Coop loves his coffee. He was absolutely obsessed with it so I guess he decided to make himself into a giant tea kettle.

Spoiler

I never read that book.

Wait is this real ?

And that picture is in the book ?

 

[Wrestlemania]

I love season one and the good parts of season two. But yeah - put me in team “FWWM and The Return is peak Twin Peaks”.

 

[axisofweevils]

So...why is Jeffries a kettle now?

He's a Tin Machine.