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[DeepEnigma]

Hate speech, antivaxxers, etc all have political wings and, at the first hint of breaking rules of conduct, should be banned at any time.

Keyword: Should.

It hasn't been equally applied and mainly ran down ideological and party lines.

All of which was on twitter and facebook at the time as well.

The "summer of love" burning businesses and murdering dozens of people was organized on Twitter and Facebook. No account bans or suspensions either.

*crickets*

 

[IntentionalPun]

All of which was on twitter and facebook at the time as well.

One of the main accounts leading the charge on Parler, was banned on Twitter.

Having content that then gets deleted or people banned is different than content that is allowed to stay up, or that stays up for really long periods of time.

That's the entire point.. the world decided to require companies have more pro-active and better re-active moderation if they want to be a social media company.

Hence why Parler is back on the app store. They improved their moderation.. it's still a right-wing focused social media site.. and guess what? It's allowed to be on the app store.. as is Truth Social..

Musk just gutted the company including the teams responsible for moderation.. advertisers, regulators, and app stores are concerned.

It's not a fucking conspiracy lol

 

[IntentionalPun]

The "summer of love" burning businesses and murdering dozens of people was organized on Twitter and Facebook. No account bans or suspensions either.

Just total fucking nonsense, there were loads of bans and suspensions surrounding BLM protests/riots.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

"Certain politicians"

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just total fucking nonsense, there were loads of bans and suspensions surrounding BLM protests/riots.

The main organizations and select politicians promoting them were not.

 

[Nobody_Important]

About that https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/3536000-dont-let-facebook-off-the-hook-for-jan-6/

What's your point? That Facebook's moderation shit the bed? Everyone knows that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"Certain politicians"

The key component behind the AMB MSM marketing. "Cut the head off the snake."

 

[Moneal]

What's your point? That Facebook's moderation shit the bed? Everyone knows that.

Advertisers and App Stores don't want to be associated with platforms that don't properly police their content. It's bad for business.

Um.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Um.

You are confusing a failure of moderation with the complete lack of moderation.

Facebook still moderates it content, but just like any other huge platform things will slip through the cracks. Same goes for Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, Twitter, etc etc. But they do TRY. So they aren't removed from the app store.

Parlor had no moderation whatsoever. They didn't even TRY to police what was being said. It was a horror show of violent threats, hate speech, and conspiracy theories. So they got dropped.

 

[Moneal]

You are confusing a failure of moderation with the complete lack of moderation.

Facebook still moderates it content, but just like any other huge platform things will slip through the cracks. Same goes for Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, Twitter, etc etc. But they do TRY. So they aren't removed from the app store.

Parlor had no moderation whatsoever. They didn't even TRY to police what was being said. It was a horror show of violent threats, hate speech, and conspiracy theories. So they got dropped.

Failure to do something would not be proper correct?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Failure to do something would not be proper correct?

Failure of moderation does not mean that proper moderation is not in place. Like I said before platforms as large as Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Etc etc will always have things slip through the cracks. They will never be perfect.


Facebook's moderation failed leading up to Jan 6th. Parlor had no moderation leading up to Jan 6th.


There is a clear difference between the two. So there are treated differently.

 

[Swift_Star]

People saying Twitter is partisan for applying rules:

 

[DeepEnigma]

People saying Twitter is partisan for applying rules:

This is as disingenuous as they come.

 

[Moneal]

People saying Twitter is partisan for applying rules:

Rules can't be partisan?

 

[strange headache]

No, I didn't. Maybe because you lived in some bubbles where people kept parroting this you believed that absurd. In the real world it never was partisan.

Facts.

Fact.

P.S.: Remove if too 'political', but the assertion that Twitter wasn't extremely biased is just plain wrong and needs to be countered. I'm a leftist btw, but I think political opposition is always needed to keep the crazies in check on both sides.

 

[Nobody_Important]

There we go.



Now we wait and see what the "free speech absolutist" will do.

 

[strange headache]

There we go.



Now we wait and see what the "free speech absolutist" will do.

No wonder the EU is in its deepest crisis since its inception.

We Europeans absolutely hate the EU meddling with our speech rights and this is coming from somebody who deeply appreciates European cooperation. This will only deepen the political divide also here in Europe and empower anti-EU forces across the board. Also speech rights still fall under national autonomy, so this will do jack-shit for countries like Greece, Italy, Czech Rep, Hungary, Poland and most other EU-sceptic or conservative led member states.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There we go.



Now we wait and see what the "free speech absolutist" will do.

Countries can't run autonomous in Europe anymore? Pretty sure each country has their own laws and rules on media content moderation.

 

[Nobody_Important]

No wonder the EU is in its deepest crisis since its inception.

We Europeans absolutely hate the EU meddling with our speech rights and this is coming from somebody who deeply appreciates European cooperation. This will only deepen the political divide also here in Europe between nation states and empower anti-EU forces across the board. Also speech rights still fall under national autonomy, so this will do jack-shit for countries like Greece, Italy, Czech Rep, Hungary, Poland and most other EU-sceptic or conservative led member states.

Yes I'm sure that the EU enforcing reasonable content moderation on Twitter will really speed up the downfall of the European Union lol

 

[BadBurger]

The "summer of love" burning businesses and murdering dozens of people was organized on Twitter and Facebook. No account bans or suspensions either.

There were plenty of people actioned on social media during those tumultuous months for advocating violence and threatening law enforcement. I personally watched it happen in real time on numerous occasions.

And since you brought it up, if you're going to reference the loss of life in such a manner you should provide context. Who they were, what they were doing, and who killed them:

At least 25 Americans were killed during protests and political unrest in 2020

Findings from Armed Conflict Location and Event Data raise concerns about continued violence during and after election day

www.theguardian.com

Reality didn't go down the way you seem to think it did.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There were plenty of people actioned on social media during those tumultuous months for advocating violence and threatening law enforcement. I personally watched it happen in real time on numerous occasions.

And since you brought it up, if you're going to reference the loss of life in such a manner you should provide context. Who they were, what they were doing, and who killed them:

At least 25 Americans were killed during protests and political unrest in 2020

Findings from Armed Conflict Location and Event Data raise concerns about continued violence during and after election day

www.theguardian.com

Reality didn't go down the way you seem to think it did.

Read my follow up post.

The main organizations and select politicians promoting them were not.

The very same "rules" they used to perm a sitting president did not apply to equally if not worse calls for it "not to let up" by select politicians and organizations themselves, during a pandemic no less.

The science "fact checkers" were also quiet about select "spreader events" as well.

And imagine unironically quoting me where Babylon Bee was banned, but The Onion stayed. Both parody news, both post edgy shit. One leans right, the other left. I wonder why that was?

 

[strange headache]

Yes I'm sure that the EU enforcing reasonable content moderation on Twitter will really speed up the downfall of the European Union lol

What part of national autonomy did you not understand? Lots of politicians are opposed to EU regulating speech. Do you honestly think conservative member states will abide by this, when they know full well that the EU has no enforceable say in this? Imagine Germany banning Twitter but not Poland and Hungary... yeah that won't fly at all and only create a major sh*tstorm further empowering the conservative and/or right leaning forces who already suspect silicon valley of suppressing their voices.

Your wishful thinking and over the top schadenfreude makes you blind to the realities at play here.

Also, there is still not one iota of evidence that Musk wants to "enable" hate speech. This whole thing is an absolute farce.

 

[Mistake]

What part of national autonomy did you not understand? Lots of politicians are opposed to EU regulating speech. Do you honestly think conservative member states will abide by this, when they know full well that the EU has no enforceable say in this? Imagine Germany banning Twitter but not Poland and Hungary... yeah that won't fly at all and only create a major sh*tstorm further empowering the conservative and/or right leaning forces who already suspect silicon valley of suppressing their voices.

Your wishful thinking and over the top schadenfreude makes you blind to the realities at play here.

Also, there is still not one iota of evidence that Musk wants to "enable" hate speech. This whole thing is an absolute farce.

Some people act like musk beats all 20 of his kids all in a row lol

 

[Kraz]

Keyword: Should.

It hasn't been equally applied and mainly ran down ideological and party lines.

I disagree it was overly biased towards one party. As with the earlier discussion this morning regarding foreign perception, it could strongly appear the way you suggest from an American pov due to the two big tent party nature of their politics. Yet, from the outside those bans look like the moderation isolated the crazies and is approved by all sorts of smaller political interests from both tents who could be classified as 'moderates'.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I disagree it was overly biased towards one party.

We're never going to come to an agreement and should disengage this conversation all together.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Also, there is still not one iota of evidence that Musk wants to "enable" hate speech. This whole thing is an absolute farce.

Not one iota of evidence?

He put out his "Freedom of Speech but not Freedom of Reach" tweet in which he explicitly states that hate speech and other offensive content will be "deboosted" but not deleted. He also said that accounts that share such tweets will not have their account "deboosted" only the individual tweets. That means that accounts can spread hate or other offensive content without worrying about their whole account being affected by it.


Even with your rose tinted glasses that is directly enabling it no matter which angle you look at it.

 

[strange headache]

Not one iota of evidence?

He put out his "Freedom of Speech but not Freedom of Reach" tweet in which he explicitly states that hate speech and other offensive content will be "deboosted" but not deleted. He also said that accounts that share such tweets will not have their account "deboosted" only the individual tweets.

So we're just conveniently ignoring Musks own follow up to this?



That's good enough and resembles more Twitters own much saner moderation guidelines from 2015. I'm not going into this whole "hate" speech routine again with you. We all know "hate" is just another codeword for "opinions that I don't like".

 

[DeepEnigma]

Also, there is still not one iota of evidence that Musk wants to "enable" hate speech. This whole thing is an absolute farce.

Yep. It's OMB 2.0, but rather AMB... yes, I've seen the "ableists" writing hit pieces and making it a talking point now due to his Asperger's. You see the true colors come out when it feels threatened.

 

[Nobody_Important]

So we're just conveniently ignoring Musks own follow up to this?



That's good enough and resembles more Twitters own much saner moderation guidelines from 2015. I'm not going into this whole "hate" speech routine again with you. We all know "hate" is just another codeword for "opinions that I don't like".

His follow up regarding violence? Yeah I know. I'm talking about hate speech and offensive content like he said in his tweets. In his own words. Regarding the official policy of Twitter when it comes to such content.


I get you want to defend him at all costs, but you are just being ridiculous at this point.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I get you want to defend him at all costs

 

[Nobody_Important]

??

 

[IntentionalPun]

Also, there is still not one iota of evidence that Musk wants to "enable" hate speech. This whole thing is an absolute farce.

Musk claiming he is a free speech absolutist is a farce too.

 

[strange headache]

and offensive content

Oh you mean the opinions that you don't like. Alrighty then.

Musk claiming he is a free speech absolutist is a farce too.

Obviously he cares more about free speech than you do, or most pundits you're championing for mobilizing against him for that matter.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Obviously he cares more about free speech than you do, or most pundits you're championing for mobilizing against him for that matter.

A web site censoring people is not a freedom of speech issue.

I fully support the American legal code for freedom of speech.

If you want a "public place" on the internet then support governments launching social media alternatives where only illegal content is policed. I'd support that. Because I do in fact support freedom of speech.

I also don't think the various EU laws about hate speech aren't terrible things.. but it also leaves too much room for opinion, and I think that should be minimized in law. So in the end I like the US 1st amendment. Much smaller room for opinion on what is/isn't legal speech.

Companies censoring the content uploaded to their servers? I fully support their right to do that.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Oh you mean the opinions that you don't like. Alrighty then.

I'm using Musks own words you donut.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Musk claiming he is a free speech absolutist is a farce too.

Perhaps it is. Keep latching on the the approved talking point™ though.

A web site censoring people is not a freedom of speech issue.

I fully support the American legal code for freedom of speech.

If you want a "public place" on the internet then support governments launching social media alternatives where only illegal content is policed. I'd support that. Because I do in fact support freedom of speech.

Then the governance and their letter agencies should not be meddling via proxy, especially in election season, which they have been.

 

[strange headache]

A web site censoring people is not a freedom of speech issue.

Oh boy here we go again, why do you guys keep repeating the same old debunked crap over and over again. This has already been discussed, but you insist on running in circles because you've got nothing else to add.

 

[Wildebeest]

Hopefully, our saviour Elon has a plan to finally defeat the evil anti-human AI, which exists in the future, by dominating the Apple Computer company in an honourable capitalist duel. Legally, they should be forced by the government to pay regular advertising tribute to him, although they should never be forced to pay actual taxes to a government, as that would be evil state manipulation.

 

[Toons]

Some people act like musk beats all 20 of his kids all in a row lol

To be fair some here also act like Musk beats THEM off 20 times in a row

 

[IntentionalPun]

Oh boy here we go again, why do you guys keep repeating the same old debunked crap over and over again. This has already been discussed, but you insist on running in circles because you've got nothing else to add.

Neat, glad it's been discussed.

It's factually not a freedom of speech issue in the US. I don't know about other places.. but here we allow companies to limit speech.

 

[DeepEnigma]

To be fair some here also act like Musk beats THEM off 20 times in a row

Most people who supported him did until he displayed "wrong think."

 

[Kraz]

Hopefully, our saviour Elon has a plan to finally defeat the evil anti-human AI, which exists in the future, by dominating the Apple Computer company in an honourable capitalist duel. Legally, they should be forced by the government to pay regular advertising tribute to him, although they should never be forced to pay actual taxes to a government, as that would be evil state manipulation.

 

[Wildebeest]

Most people who supported him did until he displayed "wrong think."

Such treacherous people exist who only agree with someone until they think they are wrong. How can they live with themselves.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Such treacherous people exist who only agree with someone until they think they are wrong. How can they live with themselves.

They should be censored. Am I doing this right?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Such treacherous people exist who only agree with someone until they think they are wrong. How can they live with themselves.

Best post I've seen in ages

 

[Clear]

There we go.



Now we wait and see what the "free speech absolutist" will do.

Musk already stated that he will obey the rule of law. So seems like sabre rattling to me.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Musk already stated that he will obey the rule of law. So seems like sabre rattling to me.

He needs to prove he CAN abide by the rule of law after gutting the company.

It's not as simple as saying "We ban hate speech" the EU laws actually enforce you prove the ability to remove it quickly.

I think Musk will do that, the EU stuff will go away, and Twitter will remain on app stores. But expecting governments to just trust Twitter after gutting the company including famously gutting content moderation teams for shit like child sex abuse content is ridiculous.

And along with claiming he will "ban illegal content" he's openly talked about literally un-banning everyone from Twitter, at the SAME TIME as laying off huge chunks of their moderation staff. You think that gives regulators/advertisers warm and fuzzies on this topic?

 

[strange headache]

Twitter 2.0: Our continued commitment to the public conversation

Twitter’s mission is to promote and protect the public conversation–to be the town square of the internet. For many years, we’ve said that we want to give everyone the power to create and share ideas

blog.twitter.com

As we carry out this work, we want to assure you of a few things:

• First, none of our policies have changed. Our approach to policy enforcement will rely more heavily on de-amplification of violative content: freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach.
• Our Trust & Safety team continues its diligent work to keep the platform safe from hateful conduct, abusive behavior, and any violation of Twitter's rules. The team remains strong and well-resourced, and automated detection plays an increasingly important role in eliminating abuse.
• When urgent events manifest on the platform, we ensure that all content moderators have the guidance they need to find and address violative content.
• As we improve our policies and processes, bad actors will also develop new methods of disruption. This is not new. Our team of experts is constantly adapting to identify and defuse threats, and we are proud of our early results: impressions on violative content are down over the past month, despite the growth in overall usage on the platform.
• Finally, as we embark on this new journey, we will make mistakes, we will learn, and we will also get things right. Throughout, we’ll communicate openly with our users and customers, to get and share your feedback as we build.

We remain committed to providing a safe, inclusive, entertaining, and informative experience for everyone. We will continue to be transparent as we move through this transition period. And we will listen to you, the people who make Twitter what it is: the town square of the internet.

There, now can the free speech fearmongers finally stop with their ridiculous concern trolling?

 

[Mistake]

He needs to prove he CAN abide by the rule of law after gutting the company.

It's not as simple as saying "We ban hate speech" the EU laws actually enforce you prove the ability to remove it quickly.

I think Musk will do that, the EU stuff will go away, and Twitter will remain on app stores. But expecting governments to just trust Twitter after gutting the company including famously gutting content moderation teams for shit like child sex abuse content is ridiculous.

And along with claiming he will "ban illegal content" he's openly talked about literally un-banning everyone from Twitter, at the SAME TIME as laying off huge chunks of their moderation staff. You think that gives regulators/advertisers warm and fuzzies on this topic?

Playing devil’s advocate here, but isn’t it possible current and old twitter hire outside moderation teams as well? I can’t imagine the company doing all of it themselves, especially with such high turnover on employees moderating cp. In any case, if musk thinks the current team wasn’t up to task, no sense in having them train their replacements

 

[Swift_Star]

Rules can't be partisan?

So elon is partisan. Good that you finally understood that.