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[SaganIsGOAT]

I believe we have to draw the line somewhere. You believe lions are worth more than one suicidal man, but what about other species? Why don't we worry about the ants or the worms when we plow through the Earth to build the foundations for our skyscrapers? Humans first is a policy I will always adhere to, even though I believe humans have not been solely beneficial for the planet.

Thank you for not personally attacking me and my views, I appreciate that. I think the want to preserve human life is incredibly powerful within each of us, and that makes perfect sense. I don't want to come across as devaluing human life, I just want to take my stance that I think we need to be careful when it comes to how we impose on other life forms because some have said that humans are worth more than every life form in that zoo. If my girlfriend got attacked or I did by say a mountain lion when hiking, you better believe I would do my best to fight and survive. Is that devaluing the mountain lion's life? In my opinion. no. Every species on this planet will attempt to fight back in some way, shape or form when attacked. In this story, we have a mentally ill man who clearly isn't thinking straight and wants to die. His choice (if we can even call it that) was to get mauled by lions. This is where many of us are going to have a very different view on how the situation is handled after this. My personal belief is that if a human decides that the game is no longer worth the candle then they should be able to put the candle out. In this case unfortunately, that came at the expense of two lions live and a whole bunch of public witnesses. This whole situation with the suicidal man and the lions dying because of his actions is just plain shitty all around. I will backtrack on my earlier post because it appears that tranq guns were ineffective and lethal force was necessary. The more I think about this the more I am stuck between, "do we let the man fulfill his suicidal act or do we attempt to save him?" It sounds so shitty I know and I am honestly very conflicted the more I think about it.

 

[Berserking Guts]

k then. Because I can set aside my ego and understand that the human species is simply one piece of the incredible world we live in my values are disturbing. lol. Nice superiority complex. The most dangerous thinking on this planet is that human are the rulers and ones who should dictate and control everything. That we are the most important. That is some fuck all thinking.

I don't know why you're so hung up on this 'human superiority as a reason to put humans first thing.' If you can't understand the value of human life, then yes I'm calling out your disturbing thinking.

 

[VanMardigan]

Do we honor the life of the suicidal man more than the lion? These are not easy questions, but it's what my mind is questioning.

This IS an easy question. You shoot the lions, try to save the life of the man, then get him mental health treatment.

 

[Krammy]

What a horrible story all around, and fuck this guy. Two lions dead because he's a selfish bastard. If you're going to kill yourself, don't involve other people.

The zoo made the right decision in shooting the lions though. Not to save the guys life like a surprising amount of people in here are championing, but because it would've been a PR disaster if they didn't.

 

[gamz]

Man, if you are going to commit suicide getting mauled by Lions would be last on my list. Sheez!

 

[SeriousApes]

Maybe the man felt ignored in life and chose a very public way to commit suicide. I've had suicidal ideations (but never actually tried anything) and I deal with depression and anxiety, so I can understand... kind of - everybody has their own battles to fight, so I can't say I understand completely, just in a general sense. Anyway, that's my hypothesis on why he'd want to try to commit suicide in such a way. Maybe he felt like he deserved such a gruesome death. Depression / mental illness isn't logical or rational.

This is a situation where there's not really a good outcome either way. If I put myself in the shoes of the zoo staff, I'd have done the same thing. I'm sure it's protocol, and tranquilizers aren't a sure and instantaneous thing. It kind of reminds me of people who choose to commit suicide by cop.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Then you, sir, are a traitor. Humans give you cars, computors, and neogaf. Lions just give you a slow death with the option of becoming their feaces.

Don't forget, Humans also rape, murder, segregate and oppress each other. Wage war for the most stupidest of reasons, refuse to see the error of their ways because of pride, overpopulate and expel waste that's killing the planet.

 

[dakun]

Me. A human. A human who supports his race, and believes in human superiority.

wow, it doesn't even matter on which side you're on in this matter. That's a very egoistic way to view your position on this earth

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

I don't know why you're so hung up on this 'human superiority as a reason to put humans first thing.' If you can't understand the value of human life, then yes I'm calling out your disturbing thinking.

I have stated plain and simple that I think human life is valuable. But I also believe life in general is beautiful and valuable. In this situation unfortunately there are so many factors involved that it makes coming to the "right decision" a tough one. The zoo doesn't want to look malicious by letting a man get mauled to death. Lions were simply being lions and acted like they do when they feel threatened. A suicidal man is probably going to spend the rest of his days badly injured and maybe still wanting to find a way of this life. It is just flat out awful all around. And I don't want to sound as though this doesn't make me sad. I am sad that a man attempted to commit suicide because of a mental illness. I am sad that lions were killed as a result of his actions. I am sad that this was a public display. And I am sad that there were not other ways to restrain the lions.

 

[psynergylover]

The Zookeepers did attempt to tranquilize the lions but shot the man in the neck by accident.

How in the world.......

 

[maquiladora]

What a horrible story all around, and fuck this guy. Two lions dead because he's a selfish bastard. If you're going to kill yourself, don't involve other people.

A long, painful and terrorizing death by mauling is not a typical way for someone who is suicidal to end their life. I think it's far more likely that this man was mentally ill. Think about that before you go all "fuck this bastard".

 

[RangerBAD]

Surprised they didn't accidentally shoot the man since they hit him with a tranq.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Humans first is a policy I will always adhere to, even though I believe humans have not been solely beneficial for the planet.

Humans are important, but don't feel all are equal, and this is not in the sense of racial, gender, sexuality or such. What did Martin Luther King Jr say, "Let them be judged by the content of their character"? You make your own worth as a human being. You are not immaculate, you are not special. Funny thing about humans, when it comes to eating each other, we are so quick to quote "survival of the fittest", the way of the world and all that jazz, but when it comes to comparing us to animals, "Nah, we're special!". We are a contradiction in the flesh. We want our cake and to eat it to.

 

[VanMardigan]

The zoo doesn't want to look malicious by letting a man get mauled to death.

The zookeepers weren't worried about PR. They were trying to save a human life.

 

[oti]

I mean, the guy was suicidal. He tried to kill himself with lions, and the lions were just doing what lions do.

Not sure killing them was he right thing to do.

que

 

[Krammy]

A long, painful and terrorizing death by mauling is not a typical way for someone who is suicidal to end their life. I think it's far more likely that this man was mentally ill. Think about that before you go all "fuck this bastard".

Despite suicide and mental illness falling under the same umbrella, even if this was another form of mental illness, my opinion of him isn't changed. Two lions are still dead because of his actions.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Do animals actually develop a taste for human blood or is it a myth?

Its not that they develop a "taste" for us (most carnivores don't have well developed taste buds as it is), its more that they realize that humans can be preyed upon and thus dont show the instinctive fear that other animals. They see a person and they'll hunt and try to eat them just like any other animal.

Obviously. in a zoo that is a very dangerous situation.

 

[NEO0MJ]

How in the world.......

Probably a lot of thrashing going on. It's not like the lions put him on a plate and calmly starting biting him in a controlled and elegant manner.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Despite suicide and mental illness falling under the same umbrella, even if this was another form of mental illness, my opinion of him isn't changed. Two lions are still dead because of his actions.

I'm not sure it's fair to blame someone who's exhibiting clear mental issues

 

[RangerX]

I get why they did it, I simply don't agree with it. This of course becomes a question of ethics and the value of human life. Is it fair to kill a lion for simply acting of its nature when a suicidal individual flings themselves at them in an attempt to get themselves mauled to death? Do we honor the life of the suicidal man more than the lion? These are not easy questions, but it's what my mind is questioning.

This is a very easy question. The answer is of course we do. Its a fucked up situation and tragic for the lions but they are obligated to protect human life.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

The zookeepers weren't worried about PR. They were trying to save a human life.

I should have worded that better because that's basically what I was saying, I just said it awfully lol. I just meant that if they hadn't acted quickly as they did it would have been a colossal shit show PR nightmare.

 

[CloudWolf]

Don't forget, Humans also rape, murder, segregate and oppress each other. Wage war for the most stupidest of reasons, refuse to see the error of their ways because of pride, overpopulate and expel waste that's killing the planet.

FYI, animals do this as well.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

This is a very easy question. The answer is of course we do. Its a fucked up situation and tragic for the lions but they are obligated to protect human life.

When I first posted that I thought that they had just chose lethal force as the first option. But after gathering more information about the missed tranq gun shot and how it's not as fast acting as we would think, I back tracked.

 

[andythinkpad]

I was going to say something about the man but those photos are insane. There is nothing else to add.

 

[F0rneus]

FYI, animals do this as well.

Well we ARE primates after all. So I'm not shocked. I can't find any sources, but I did hear about how there was a swan who lured and killed dozens of other swans before. Fucked up violence is not unique to humans.

 

[toastyToast]

Then you, sir, are a traitor. Humans give you cars, computors, and neogaf. Lions just give you a slow death with the option of becoming their feaces.

Lions gave us The Lion King though

Lions > people

 

[poppabk]

Depressing thread, jeez.

Lack of empathy for another fellow human is a bit disturbing.

You lose some empathy when you set out to traumatize other people and put other people's lives at risk.

 

[AquaWateria]

Feel bad for the suicidal man.

But poor lions had to die because of his actions.

 

[y2dvd]

How were the Lions killed? They were too afraid to tranq any further due to hitting the guy on the neck by accident. I would assume they'd be too afraid to use guns to take out the lions at that point.

 

[rokkerkory]

Feel bad for all 3

 

[Raynes]

You lose some empathy when you set out to traumatize other people and put other people's lives at risk.

Very simplistic way to think. Must be really comfortable. That suicidal bastard, didn't do a risk assessment beforehand! He was clearly stable!!

 

[starchild excalibur]

I know the guy has mental health issues, but I feel worse for the lions who were killed. Hopefully at least the dude survives given that two lions were killed as the workers were trying to save him.

 

[HighResTomato]

How were the Lions killed? They were too afraid to tranq any further due to hitting the guy on the neck by accident. I would assume they'd be too afraid to use guns to take out the lions at that point.

According to The Guardian the zoo has a dedicated person to do the job.

Alejandra Montalva, the zoo director, defended the actions of staff. “The alarms sounded and chemical control arrived [tranquiliser darts] and an independent shooter arrived. The shooter decided to save the life of the person and unfortunately we had to sacrifice two members of our family,” she said.

 

[VanMardigan]

I just meant that if they hadn't acted quickly as they did it would have been a colossal shit show PR nightmare.

And I'm saying that the fact that it would've been a colossal PR nightmare was not a consideration. The fact is there was a man being eaten by lions and they wanted to save that man. End of story. No moral dilemmas. No triangulation of public relations outcomes. No philosophical debates on the value of human life that seems to have clouded this thread.

 

[Madrugador]

Surprised they didn't accidentally shoot the man since they hit him with a tranq.

I would imagine shooting a real bullet is easier than a dart.

Terrible situation but I agree with what the zoo did. Human life goes first and you cannot let a man die mauled by lions. The lack of empathy on facebook is sad, if this guy was a member of your family you would probably be begging for someone to shot the lions.

If we really want to do something for this kind of animals, we should think about closing this and other zoos. Which will hopefully happen.

 

[NHarmonic.]

I guess add "being surrounded by food you can't eat" to the list of bad things about zoos. Are zoo animals born in captivity, or are we still capturing them from the wild? It seems like being surrounded by people their entire lives would impart some inedible familiarity. Some of my fondest memories as a kid are going to the National Zoo in DC. They do a better job than most in having a more-natural environment, but it's still too damn small and concrete. It's mainly the big cats, elephants, giraffes, etc. that are most inhibited by enclosure.

The lion was born in captivity, the lioness was saved from a circus.

This is a really shitty situation, i'm ashamed that it happened in my city :/

 

[direct_quote]

Very simplistic way to think. Must be really comfortable. That suicidal bastard, didn't do a risk assessment beforehand! He was clearly stable!!

Being suicidal isn't a blank empathy check. If someone is suicidal and decides to get drunk and drive into another car or kill his whole family and himself, I would find it hard to feel empathetic towards him or her.

 

[Airola]

I get why they did it, I simply don't agree with it. This of course becomes a question of ethics and the value of human life. Is it fair to kill a lion for simply acting of its nature when a suicidal individual flings themselves at them in an attempt to get themselves mauled to death? Do we honor the life of the suicidal man more than the lion? These are not easy questions, but it's what my mind is questioning.

No, this is very easy.

The man has mental issues. He has "sickness" in his brain. It's like letting someone contract HIV on himself on purpose. People who accept suicidal people to kill themselves when there is an option to stop it are indirectly causing a man's death.

People sometimes sympathise with suicidal people by saying it's their choice and we should let people do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But what they don't realise is that the action of accepting a suicide is actually a way to silently hurt people. It can even be seen as encouraging people to do a thing they wouldn't necessarily do if they have proper support.



Also, just because it's in "lion's nature" to eat even humans, it doesn't mean no-one shouldn't do anything about it. It's like saying when an elephant sees her baby elephant be hunted by some beast, the mother elephant should just let it happen because it's the beast's nature. It's like being sad for the beast that it couldn't get the baby elephant and died because the mother elephant came to protect and happened to kill the beast in the process.

Of course a species tries to help its kind.

 

[kinggroin]

Why on Earth would you choose such a agonizing way to end yourself? Now he's either going to die a very slow and painful death or survive and deal with severe complications that will no doubt be far worse than whatever made him want to kill himself. And two animals had to die for this. What an awful story.

I'm sure if a lion was depressed and ran into a populated human environment attempting suicide, his pride would jump in to kill the humans in order to save him

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

Don't forget, Humans also rape, murder, segregate and oppress each other. Wage war for the most stupidest of reasons, refuse to see the error of their ways because of pride, overpopulate and expel waste that's killing the planet.

If you hate humans so much why not just dress up as one of your precious animals and live in the wild?

wow, it doesn't even matter on which side you're on in this matter. That's a very egoistic way to view your position on this earth

You're damn right i've got an ego when it comes to something i'm proud of.

 

[cLOUDo]

The conditions of this animals in that specific zoo are very "inhuman" so in a way they are better now.

 

[FinalFanXtreme]

This really bothers me.

 

[kinggroin]

Don't forget, Humans also rape, murder, segregate and oppress each other. Wage war for the most stupidest of reasons, refuse to see the error of their ways because of pride, overpopulate and expel waste that's killing the planet.

You live and die by that human sword!

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

How did the guy endanger other lives?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

The Zookeepers did attempt to tranquilize the lions but shot the man in the neck by accident.

lol, silly humans.

 

[Jedi2016]

What pisses me off isn't so much their reaction to what happened, but the fact that this asshat made it necessary to kill those animals. The blame lies solely with him, not the zoo, and I hope he has some new charges laid on him when/if he gets out of the hospital.

 

[Kard8p3]

How did the guy endanger other lives?

The lives of the Lions.

And any handlers of the Lions when they realize how easy humans are to kill (if they hadn't shot the Lions)

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Feel sorry for the lions who were just going about minding their own business when this psycho scared them into a frenzy like that. They felt threatened and thus reacted as such. At least it was a get out of jail free card for the poor animals. Hope they're in a better place now.

What pisses me off isn't so much their reaction to what happened, but the fact that this asshat made it necessary to kill those animals. The blame lies solely with him, not the zoo, and I hope he has some new charges laid on him when/if he gets out of the hospital.

You can get charged with attempted suicide in some places, I thought?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

What pisses me off isn't so much their reaction to what happened, but the fact that this asshat made it necessary to kill those animals. The blame lies solely with him, not the zoo, and I hope he has some new charges laid on him when/if he gets out of the hospital.

Dude's mentally ill, he shouldn't be charged and if he were, he'd be admitted to a psychiatric ward and that'd be the end of it.

 

[Jeffolation]

Zoos are terrible and belong in the dustbin of history. That being said I'd kill any animal threatening the life of another human being, circumstances be damned.