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[la flama blanca]

I'm sorry to hear that. Glad that you now have a successful career. America is awesome and was made by people like you and with your spirit. I hope that you can change that status to Resident at some point in the future.

Thanks, I'd definitely shift any and all credit to my father who's been extremely resilient and really holds the American dream in his heart. Not to mention my other siblings who definitely are better model Americans than I am haha.

 

[adj_noun]

... the first large-scale effort to deport families who have fled violence in Central America, those familiar with the plan said

The adults and children would be detained wherever they can be found and immediately deported.

Do we know where we're deporting the adults and children to? Back where they came from? Somewhere else?

Normally I'd assume the former, but if you fled in the first place due to violence, sending them back there seems inadvisable.

 

[midramble]

What's hyperbolic? It isn't his land. Give it back.

The fact that the person you quoted mentions why people are fleeing across the border to suggest we should be lighter on deportation without mentioning extreme solutions and you respond that they should give up the house they own and pay for as a logical extension.

If you're making the parallel between land owned by the US and his house, you're missing the point. We directly affect the situation across the border but have no amount of mercy of the repercussions. We fund the cocaine trade and its resulting destabilization and cartel wars but label people fleeing it, not refugees, but illegal immigrants.

I doubt the person you quoted is suggesting an extreme solution to let everyone cross without paperwork and checks so why would you counter with an extreme solution.

Like pretty much every foreign policy issue it requires nuance so why use a hyperbolic hammer?

 

[Mesousa]

Because we go there legally? Everyone should follow the same rules

You are right.

H1B is being exploited hard by tech management in U.S. Even liberal IT workers are voicing their concerns for it. H1B is only supposed to fulfill requirements for unavailable specialized talent, but it is mostly being used to recruit cheaper workers driving wages down for network/system admins. So far only Trump has talked about it.

If there isn't a job that can be done by US citizens, then we should use funding to get the pay to that worker. The biggest myth around is that there is a Tech shortage. Sweatshops like Infosys and Disney just know they would be fools to pay Americans 70k when they can bring in H1Bs for much cheaper. This needs to end, and one reason why I am leaning towards ending such program all together.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Do we know where we're deporting the adults and children to? Back where they came from? Somewhere else?

Normally I'd assume the former, but if you fled in the first place due to violence, sending them back there seems inadvisable.

Most likely beyond The Wall so probably Canada.

 

[Christopher]

I don't see the problem. Aren't these people here illegally?
Have them follow the process we have in place.

Fix the process of it's broken but that doesn't change the fact these people are breaking the law currently.

Right come here legally and there's no problem at all more than welcome,

 

[Jazzy Network]

Most likely beyond The Wall so probably Canada.

Make them suffer by making them watch Maple Leaf games.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

We're tired of ISIS and trying to make a younger model enemy

 

[Polari]

Right come here legally and there's no problem at all more than welcome,

Well, it's not that simple.

But yeah, no-one should be surprised that the U.S. are actually trying to enforce their immigration policy.

 

[Cels]

the article says they're targeting people who

• are recent arrivals (have only been here since start of last year)
• were denied asylum (meaning their immigration judge found their claims of violence back home not to be credible...or, more likely, they didn't show up to the hearing at all as the article says)
• already ordered to be removed from the country by an immigration judge

the decision for the raids come down to a federal judge already ordering that child detainees and family members be released because of a consent decree requiring children to be treated humanely and allowed to quickly contest their incarcerations. DHS cannot hold all these people, there's no room, so its response is to deport those who have been denied asylum.

they are targeting "hundreds" of families which really not that much compared to the 11 or 12 million people who are here illegally.

funny enough, by doing this they anger both the left (many of whom want no deportations at all) and the right (who contend there are not enough deportations)

 

[Christopher]

Thanks, I'd definitely shift any and all credit to my father who's been extremely resilient and really holds the American dream in his heart. Not to mention my other siblings who definitely are better model Americans than I am haha.

So why not become a citizen and do things the right way?

 

[injurai]

Laws can be unjust.

Which is why many are fighting to fix our immigration laws. Doesn't mean deportation doesn't have it's place. Laws do need to be enforced. A growing discontentment of immigration is the fact that laws aren't enforced, and people aren't coming through the right channels. Plenty of people want to see immigration work.

 

[Rayis]

So why not become a citizen and do things the right way?

The only way he would be able to do that in his current state is to marry a US citizen, otherwise he'd have to exit the country and apply for a green card which is a difficult process in and of itself and would take years and is not even guaranteed he'd get it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Lot of employers are going to be hurt

 

[kame-sennin]

He's the one railing against the concept of boarders and citizenship. It isn't his land.

Give. It. Back.

Is this as close to a coherent argument as you can muster on this issue? While I'm not undocumented, my family came here for the same reasons that most Latin Americans did. The U.S. claimed Puerto Rico as a colony and destroyed the local economy. Then American factories started recruiting Puerto Ricans into low wage labor in the states. The only reason I'm a citizen and not "an illegal" is because the U.S. forced citizenship on Puerto Ricans against a unanimous vote by our delegates so that we could be drafted into WWI.

So, even if your question had merit - it doesn't - my family didn't really come here by choice and we didn't take (or inherit land taken) from anybody. We had our island colonized. That's essentially true of most undocumented people as well. They probably love their home. But it was made uninhabitable, in most cases by the U.S. Where do you expect these people to go? If you want us to go back, please, stop stealing our shit and toppling our governments. It's annoying.

 

[numble]

So why not become a citizen and do things the right way?

How did you or whoever in your family's line first obtain citizenship and how does it differ from the pathways currently available?

 

[la flama blanca]

So why not become a citizen and do things the right way?

The only practical way at the moment is to get married to a US citizen. I do not speak Spanish so going back to my country of origin is out of the question right now. I was in an 8 year relationship with someone who was a citizen, could have been really easy, but again, I'm stubborn. I'm not sure if you're really considering what "the right way" really means from my perspective. I consider myself an American, plain and simple. I'm so ultra-assimilated to the point where I can't even communicate or relate to other Hispanic-Americans most of the time. I unfortunately may have to consider the marriage option, but for now, I'm doing what I feel is right(especially considering I now have legal authorization to work here in the US).

 

[God Dayumm]

You are right.



If there isn't a job that can be done by US citizens, then we should use funding to get the pay to that worker. The biggest myth around is that there is a Tech shortage. Sweatshops like Infosys and Disney just know they would be fools to pay Americans 70k when they can bring in H1Bs for much cheaper. This needs to end, and one reason why I am leaning towards ending such program all together.

Lots of H1B workers are paid over 70k when they deserve it. There is indeed a shortage of talent and an american with $50k+ in debt for a Fat & Gender Studies degree ain't going to cut it, so employers are forced to look towards India, Africa, China, Eastern Europe and South America for talent that is under-appreciated and underpaid in their countries. If you think "they taking yer jerbs", then step up your game

 

[Elchele]

- Conquer a continent.
- Steal half a country and redraw border.
- Ethnically cleanse "frontier".
- Install dictators in Central and South America.
- Steal resources.
- Destabilize region.
- Crush popular resistance.
- Create black market drug trade.

- Deport people fleeing from resulting chaos because "laws have to be enforced" and "borders matter".

:lol
Basically this. USA only sticks to the law when it benefits them.

 

[Nibiru]

I'm sure those that have been trying to enter the legal way will be thrilled to hear this.

 

[DragonSworne]

Hopefully more action like this is taken. My father risked a lot getting into this country with 4 kids. Do it the legal way people.

 

[kame-sennin]

Hopefully more action like this is taken. My father risked a lot getting into this country with 4 kids. Do it the legal way people.

You know some of these people will be killed when they get home, right?

 

[Mesousa]

Lots of H1B workers are paid over 70k when they deserve it. There is indeed a shortage of talent and an american with $50k+ in debt for a Fat & Gender Studies degree ain't going to cut it, so employers are forced to look towards India, Africa, China, Eastern Europe and South America for talent that is under-appreciated and underpaid in their countries. If you think "they taking yer jerbs", then step up your game

I'm sure those Disney workers who had to train their cheap H1B replacements should have just "Stepped up their game"

More corporate speak from an elite class who wishes nothing more to send the middle class to hell, while lining up their third home in the hamptons. The only shortage in this country is the shortage of people calling out the BS H1B system.

 

[fastford58]

Why is there a pic of trump in the op? Obama is pres.

 

[Clockwork5]

I watched the movie "Spare Parts" the other day. Knowing theres families here that just want to contribute to society, rubs me the wrong way. Especially when theres american citizens that are repeatedly sent to jail over offenses. Why aren't we deporting gang members? I don't care that they're citizens. I just think our priorities are mixed up.

L fucking O fucking L

Let's start deporting US citizens wtf...

 

[daycru]

Is this as close to a coherent argument as you can muster on this issue? While I'm not undocumented, my family came here for the same reasons that most Latin Americans did. The U.S. claimed Puerto Rico as a colony and destroyed the local economy. Then American factories started recruiting Puerto Ricans into low wage labor in the states. The only reason I'm a citizen and not "an illegal" is because the U.S. forced citizenship on Puerto Ricans against a unanimous vote by our delegates so that we could be drafted into WWI.

So, even if your question had merit - it doesn't - my family didn't really come here by choice and we didn't take (or inherit land taken) from anybody. We had our island colonized. That's essentially true of most undocumented people as well. They probably love their home. But it was made uninhabitable, in most cases by the U.S. Where do you expect these people to go? If you want us to go back, please, stop stealing our shit and toppling our governments. It's annoying.

So, you're not giving the land back?

 

[...Scatter...]

- Conquer a continent.
- Steal half a country and redraw border.
- Ethnically cleanse "frontier".
- Install dictators in Central and South America.
- Steal resources.
- Destabilize region.
- Crush popular resistance.
- Create black market drug trade.

- Deport people fleeing from resulting chaos because "laws have to be enforced" and "borders matter".

You forgot: Crush your enemies, drive them out, hear the lamentation of the women.

 

[...Scatter...]

You know some of these people will be killed when they get home, right?

What's your solution? Allow anyone in and give them citizenship because they deserve to be American? What happens when 2/3rds of the 3rd world wants in? Please enlighten us with your solution to the immigration issue.

 

[Clockwork5]

:lol
Basically this. USA only sticks to the law when it benefits them.

To be fair. The USA should only be passing legislation that benifits the USA.

 

[Palculator]

So, you're not giving the land back?

Do you know how the real world works?

 

[BennyBlanco]

If you enter a country illegally, you sure as shit deserve to get deported.

Yea, pretty much.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Do you know how the real world works?

That's his point, I believe

 

[mugurumakensei]

Lots of H1B workers are paid over 70k when they deserve it.

In tech, it's used a lot for jobs that aren't all that specialized beyond requiring a college degree. In theory, it's supposed to be used for a specialization that is rare. I'll also say that a lot of H1B are severely lacking in talent in my field(software) as well. About the only thing that has worked in finding talent for my company is to hire interns, mold then, and hope they stick on after graduation. It's turned out far better than the often 4+ Month process of finding a senior or junior level position.

 

[User Name Here]

Deport them where?
LOL

To 'murica. Or Mars. Soon to be New 'murica.

- Conquer a continent.
- Steal half a country and redraw border.
- Ethnically cleanse "frontier".
- Install dictators in Central and South America.
- Steal resources.
- Destabilize region.
- Crush popular resistance.
- Create black market drug trade.

- Deport people fleeing from resulting chaos because "laws have to be enforced" and "borders matter".

'mmmmurica! Fuck yeah!

 

[numble]

So, you're not giving the land back?

There is no hypocrisy in being a proponent for policy to be implemented while not doing a microscopic version of it. It's like asking Democrats that are in favor of Medicare for all to voluntarily pay more Medicare tax.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Surprised with the number of people okay with deportation in this thread

 

[Polari]

Surprised with the number of people okay with deportation in this thread

So anyone that enters illegally should be allowed to stay once they cross the border?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

So anyone that enters illegally should be allowed to stay once they cross the border?

Rules shmules. I just feel sorry for anyone that built their life here being suddenly forced out. Certainly I didn't expect people to egg it on just because it was Obama who did it and not Trump

 

[Christopher]

Rules shmules. I just feel sorry for anyone that built their life here being suddenly forced out.

Ok that's nice

 

[User1608]

I hope one of you has the courage to tell me I should return despite having been here for over 2 decades.

 

[pgtl_10]

- Conquer a continent.
- Steal half a country and redraw border.
- Ethnically cleanse "frontier".
- Install dictators in Central and South America.
- Steal resources.
- Destabilize region.
- Crush popular resistance.
- Create black market drug trade.

- Deport people fleeing from resulting chaos because "laws have to be enforced" and "borders matter".

Yup. Sounds like the Middle East as well.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

The posters in here saying, "Well, they're here illegally. I don't see the problem" you are really ignorant to the situation. I'm not saying that insultingly -- I'm staying it in the most literal sense. You are missing quite a few pieces of knowledge and context, not the least of which is the inconsistency with which these laws are a applied.


My family immigrated illegally and are now naturalized citizens (this was way before 9/11). Many families actively contribute to the economy and to society, like mine did, and many are given a pathway to citizenship. The lawyers who help in this process expect you to be here illegally as a way to migrate. The US authorities often do, too. Being an illegal resident is a de facto part of the process for many to becoming a citizen.

When there is a rapid change in enforcement or policy, it can disrupt a good chunk of society and the economy with it. It's also a big shock on families often in financially precarious situations. That might not be your responsibility, but ultimately, it affects the health of the nation as a whole. Consistent application of laws is as important to a stable society as the laws themselves.

Some posters in here addressed the distinction between all illegal immigrants and the ones already ordered to leave. Fine, that brings some nuance to the discussion, although I still wouldn't call it open and shut. But the ones who say "illegal? Then they should be deported" are attempting to paint a real world issue in fairy tale black-and-white morality.

 

[Madness]

You are right.

If there isn't a job that can be done by US citizens, then we should use funding to get the pay to that worker. The biggest myth around is that there is a Tech shortage. Sweatshops like Infosys and Disney just know they would be fools to pay Americans 70k when they can bring in H1Bs for much cheaper. This needs to end, and one reason why I am leaning towards ending such program all together.

Even companies like Microsoft. They can't get enough H1B visas to get more Indian/Chinese workers so what they've started to do is open buildings in Canada, train and bring in workers there and then have them use the Canadian/US visa free travel, or simplified employment programs and then bring those workers to the US to get cheaper IT workers hired.

It's just as bad in Canada. The companies here even exploit loopholes to bring in workers from Philippines, Haiti to work at fast food joints for few to benefits and meager pay with little to no salary increases.

 

[MogCakes]

The biggest obstacle facing the US with immigration is everyone wants in. Unless some genius can come up with a solution to that massive volume of people there will be tension and hard feelings such as those expressed here.

Ignoring emotions, how would those of you who are against deportation handle this issue? Just allow people to cross and scrap the Social Security system?

 

[Lonewolf_92]

- Conquer a continent.
- Steal half a country and redraw border.
- Ethnically cleanse "frontier".
- Install dictators in Central and South America.
- Steal resources.
- Destabilize region.
- Crush popular resistance.
- Create black market drug trade.

- Deport people fleeing from resulting chaos because "laws have to be enforced" and "borders matter".

To be fair, Spain had already did a number down there long before the US as we know it even came to be.

You know some of these people will be killed when they get home, right?

Or starve to death. That drought isn't doing anyone any favors. I seem to recall a thread here not long ago from a South American poster who had to wait in line for the chance to get very basic necessities.

 

[midramble]

The biggest obstacle facing the US with immigration is everyone wants in. Unless some genius can come up with a solution to that massive volume of people there will be tension and hard feelings such as those expressed here.

Ignoring emotions, how would those of you who are against deportation handle this issue? Just allow people to cross and scrap the Social Security system?

Not entirely against deportation as there are of course moments when the law should be enforced, but considering the climate of close nations I feel it would be great if we allowed a working vacation visa system like many other countries that was quick to apply for and receive, and allowed people to apply for change of status to work visa if they find a permanent job in the US during that 6 month time period. The hard part of that is that we get so many applications that a speedy process would take a lot of funding. Admittedly I don't know exactly how much funding. This is where it becomes a more nuanced situation again. Anyone know the USCIS budget off hand?

The reason you get so much illegal immigration is that it regularly takes around a year to get in, and that's not even guaranteed. It's extremely hard to plan around that especially when you're trying to get out of a cartel war zone..

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Hey look, a class war.