I know how devolved administrations work.
The phrasing of "this isn't Welsh Labour's manifesto" doesn't exactly exude agreement and unity does it?
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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I know how devolved administrations work.
The phrasing of "this isn't Welsh Labour's manifesto" doesn't exactly exude agreement and unity does it?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Distancing yourself from a leaked manifesto whilst simultaneously treating Carwyn Jones as the leader of the Labour Party is where I'm getting this from - I know full well why it's not their manifesto on paper, as I am part of another party with a semi-independent Welsh branch. (Indeed I am obliged to be really nice to Welsh Labour, as I hear they have an unusually excellent Education Secretary these days.)
We've already had this mess to sort out in Scotland with Labour vs. Scottish Labour trying to have conflicting policies.
The problem is that they're the same party and it's a Westminster election, not one for the devolved assembly. They can't legally campaign with two conflicting manifestos, so while Scottish/Welsh Labour might accentuate policies relevant to their local area they can't outright contradict the UK manifesto as at the end of the day that's what people are voting for.
Little Old Man
Member
Have you heard that there's a general erection coming guys? It's said to be strong and stable.
Despite the mail and the torygraph's protestations, he isn't actually Chairman Mao.
Theonik
Member
Unfortunately.
PJV3
Member
I'm sure they could engineer a collapse in value somehow.
Yeah let's go full Venezuela on it, that'll calm the markets haha
Why are you against Taking Back Control?
JonathanEx
Member
The people voted for it, it must be done
Theonik
Member
Only the state can ensure strength and stability.
Ravensmash
Member
Bollocks - missed the LBC interview with Theresa and now I'm stuck with Nigel.
Edit: He's just debating with a guy who's praising the Tories for their financial clout with the economy, and surprisingly he's being quite critical of that viewpoint.
Surprising.
Edit: He's just debating with a guy who's praising the Tories for their financial clout with the economy, and surprisingly he's being quite critical of that viewpoint.
Surprising.
They're nicking all of his parties policies, hes prob mad the rugs been pulled out from under his feet
Ravensmash
Member
Very true, haha!
I really don't like to admit this, but as much as I dislike the man's politics, his show is usually fairly entertaining.
His jokes are cringey as fuck though.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I really enjoy listening to Nigel on LBC. For all his faults, he has charisma and is good on the mic.
Not sure which way I'm going to vote, if I bother at all to be honest. I'm too far left to vote for the Tories, but not far enough left to vote for Labour in its current form.
Not sure which way I'm going to vote, if I bother at all to be honest. I'm too far left to vote for the Tories, but not far enough left to vote for Labour in its current form.
Ravensmash
Member
Yeah, he's certainly one of their more lively presenters. I like James O'brien on there too, and he's like the polar opposite politically.
I don't think there's any harm in listening to alternative viewpoints either, in fact I'd encourage it.
I'll likely be going Lib Dem or Labour - whoever is more likely to reduce our MP's majority. We're a strong Tory safe seat, so I expect that to just increase instead...
Mr.Fletcher
Member
All my county's MPs are Conservative. I don't expect that to change.
Neither party is currently led by anyone with any sort of charisma if you ask me. I can behind policies on both sides but no one on either end of the spectrum galvanises me.
I know Tony Blair is an unpopular figure and ushered in the age of 'spin', but I felt like I could get behind him most of the time. He was probably the best performer we've had in British politics in the last 20 years.
I think the country could really do with a 'New Labour' style movement today - not necessarily in terms of policy, but something different, something that shakes things up, something that can appeal to people on both sides.
For all the talk of the changing face of politics, it's still essentially a choice between two parties... and both feel like they're learching towards political extremes.
whyamihere
Banned
Hmm.
And yet, same poll:
And yet, same poll:
Why would you do this.
Ravensmash
Member
Jezbollah
Member
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
It was the same with Ed Miliband, the policies were popular but not him. Although he was just seen as weird. Corbyn's IRA, nuclear and military comments really alienated people.
Jeremy's face might as well be on the junk mail you get saying you've been specially selected and won £2500.
It's not going to fly, and the more that is promised the less convincing it looks. Labour look like cowboy builders, you wouldn't invite them in to fix your house.
The party needs fixing first.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It's a cultural problem. Same one Clinton had. Labour don't look or sound anything like their voters. Even if they put forward policies some of those voters like, they don't really understand why those voters like them.
Jezbollah
Member
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Well I think Corbyn is closer to that authenticity than any politician in a long time. Blair didn't, he was just charming. I think the bigger problem is that they don't have the appearance of competence. Policies are irrelevant if they won't be achieved.
That said you won't find any argument that Labour's broader image, with fops like Umunna or Yvette Cooper, doesn't appeal to their base.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
David Cameron on the need to avoid 'extreme Brexit':
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39890248
There wouldn't be a Brexit in the first place if you didn't call the fucking referendum in the first place, you idiot
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39890248
There wouldn't be a Brexit in the first place if you didn't call the fucking referendum in the first place, you idiot
The usual suspect newspapers did a classic character assassination on him well before his policies.
I know people don't like to admit that news and newspapers clearly influence them but Ed was seen as the swotty geek who thought he was better than you. Cameron the smooth in control born to rule type. And thus the 'better' choice.
Audioboxer
Member
"I support all this shit Labour wants to do, really good for the country..."
"Who's the leader?"
"Corbyn"
Twat.
Jezbollah
Member
"I support all this shit Labour wants to do, really good for the country..."
"Who's the leader?"
"Corbyn"
I think there's a reason you're not seeing Corbyn in any Labour marginals in this campaign.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
That's certainly true. Their treatment of Milliband was dreadful, particularly the anti-semitism. The problem was always that he was nerdy and nasal. So the smears actually were supported when people did see and hear him. He has been way more relaxed and amusing since stepping down as leader.
This cunt calls the referendum, makes no plans for a leave vote, quits immediately and casts the country into a political turmoil yet has the nerve to say this bullshit? Fuck him. I don't like Theresa May all too much, but Cameron's arrogance and lack of responsibility is atrocious.
Little Old Man
Member
Don't worry, he will totally claim responsibility for the decision and publicly announce his regret, selfishness and arrogance, which will just happen to coincide with the release of his memoirs in 2035.
JonathanEx
Member
The video of the teenager berating him is a lovely watch.
I was only half joking when someone posted that fake Corbyn quote saying the only fox he's interested in hunting is nailing Rupert murdochs head to the wall. When both Trump and the Pod Save America crew agree on something you have to pay attention - politicians need to talk like normal people if you want their votes. Simple, easy to understand language, that makes you sound like a human being - not an out of touch geography teacher or someone whose every line has been processed by a committee designed so you don't offend anyone.
naweednrahman
Member
I think labour are going to do pretty well, a lot better than people want to believe.
Audioboxer
Member
Like Blair, he'll scurry off to do a load of speaking events. It looks like he already is, along with George Osborne.
Well I mean anything's possible, and when faced with outright annihilation even a small number of survivors can look ok!
Go Jeremy.
Look at the polls above. People vote like it's fucking xfactor and it's been decided that Corbyn is a disaster so none of the policies matter. What matters is being on the winning team so that means a load of casual Tory support.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
The manifesto will throw him a life raft, of sorts. Still, if he loses seats he has to resign instantly.
When someone can't even run their own party, no one in their right mind is going to give them the keys to 10 Downing Street.
Ed's problem was inadequacy, he sat on his hands waiting for a backlash against the coalition government so when the election campaign did kick in it was too little too late. And no piece of granite would be big enough to compensate for the fact he just hadn't been there.
Jeremy's problem is incompetence. Which is even worse, because it's destructive. The party is in tatters and there's no reason to believe he wouldn't stubbornly drive the country off a cliff as well. So why change drivers?
We haven't had an effective opposition since 2010, when we've needed it the most. Better the devil you know is here with us for years now until we do.
Theonik
Member
Looking a bit deeper than headline poll numbers, you can see a path where Labour avoids disaster.
Labour's vote was already at it's core base in 2010/2015, people seem to think Corbyn is a disaster but it looks like he'll get at least Brown / Miliband numbers. And those numbers are currently trending up, by a few percentage points since the election was announced.
The issue comes with comparing this very slightly higher Labour number to a much higher Tory number.
It's plain as day that the Tory vote share inflation is almost entirely down to UKIP coming home now that Brexit is a done deal, and most UKIP -> Tory switching is in the Tory heartlands, so it literally doesn't matter. Another chunk is in Labour heartlands and may ironically increase some Labour majorities there.
What's left is the sliver that matters, the UKIP switching in 2-way / 3-way marginals. If that can be minimised then Labour can easily stem the bleeding to single-digit / low double-digit losses.
Labour's vote was already at it's core base in 2010/2015, people seem to think Corbyn is a disaster but it looks like he'll get at least Brown / Miliband numbers. And those numbers are currently trending up, by a few percentage points since the election was announced.
The issue comes with comparing this very slightly higher Labour number to a much higher Tory number.
It's plain as day that the Tory vote share inflation is almost entirely down to UKIP coming home now that Brexit is a done deal, and most UKIP -> Tory switching is in the Tory heartlands, so it literally doesn't matter. Another chunk is in Labour heartlands and may ironically increase some Labour majorities there.
What's left is the sliver that matters, the UKIP switching in 2-way / 3-way marginals. If that can be minimised then Labour can easily stem the bleeding to single-digit / low double-digit losses.
Little Old Man
Member
The laughing guy on Question Time....jesus.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Going to pore through it on Github to increase my JS knowledge, which is a bonus.
Also, I don't know why I bother engaging with the comments on /r/ukpolitics anymore. Sub is loaded full of alt right trash. And people on there call it a 'good subreddit', just lol, the whining on there from a lot of users there after Macron won was...something else.
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