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[Goodlife]

We got about 48 hours of manifesto positivity, so naturally captain dickhead is now moving onto his pet-project stuff, namely the most toxic of foreign policies.

Am missing something then.

How is this not entirely sensible?

"But I am not a pacifist. I accept that military action, under international law and as a genuine last resort, is in some circumstances necessary. But that is very far from the kind of unilateral wars and interventions that have almost become routine in recent times."

He will say a "bomb first, talk later" approach to security "has failed" and is a "recipe for increasing, not reducing threats and insecurity".

"Waiting to see which way the wind blows in Washington isn't strong leadership. And pandering to an erratic Trump administration will not deliver stability," he will say.

"Britain deserves better than simply outsourcing our country's security and prosperity to the whims of the Trump White House.

"So no more hand holding with Donald Trump - a Labour government will conduct a robust and independent foreign policy made in London."

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It is sensible but it'll be spun as him trying to disarm the UK and befriend terrorists.

 

[Spuck-uk]

It is sensible but it'll be spun as him trying to disarm the UK.

To be honest anything he says is going to be spun anyway.

According to the tories his pledge to increase the minimum wage is 'abandoning the working class', according May.

Also there's no such thing as 'May Mania', the Tories poll majority is predicated on UKIP voters coming home to roost.

 

[suedester]

Lib Dems apparently pledge to legalise Cannabis. I've been surprised over the last few years how progressive some US states have been on this. Hope the Tories and Labour will change their position on it eventually.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-liberal-democrats-will-pledge-to-completely-legalise

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Am missing something then.

How is this not entirely sensible?

"But I am not a pacifist. I accept that military action, under international law and as a genuine last resort, is in some circumstances necessary. But that is very far from the kind of unilateral wars and interventions that have almost become routine in recent times."

He will say a "bomb first, talk later" approach to security "has failed" and is a "recipe for increasing, not reducing threats and insecurity".

"Waiting to see which way the wind blows in Washington isn't strong leadership. And pandering to an erratic Trump administration will not deliver stability," he will say.

"Britain deserves better than simply outsourcing our country's security and prosperity to the whims of the Trump White House.

"So no more hand holding with Donald Trump - a Labour government will conduct a robust and independent foreign policy made in London."

If only there weren't several decades of him advocating disastrous foreign policy decisions in line with dictators, genocidal maniacs and Russian foreign policy.

Remember this is the man who tried to put to parliament that the Balkan genocide was a manufactured myth.

 

[Acorn]

I don't appreciate how my news app wakes me with as daily countdown to election day.

It's like death row.

 

[Goodlife]

If only there weren't several decades of him advocating disastrous foreign policy decisions in line with dictators, genocidal maniacs and Russian foreign policy.

Remember this is the man who tried to put to parliament that the Balkan genocide was a manufactured myth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16BtpSCufU0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Juicy Bob]

I don't appreciate how my news app wakes me with as daily countdown to election day.

It's like death row.

God I wish.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16BtpSCufU0&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MloKNguQbIo

 

[Chinner]

To be honest anything he says is going to be spun anyway.

According to the tories his pledge to increase the minimum wage is 'abandoning the working class', according May.

Also there's no such thing as 'May Mania', the Tories poll majority is predicated on UKIP voters coming home to roost.

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

 

[*Splinter]

Also there's no such thing as 'May Mania', the Tories poll majority is predicated on UKIP voters coming home to roost.

People keep saying this, but it ignores that a large portion of those UKIP voters previously voted Labour. I thought that's what the 2015 result was all about? UKIP eating into Labour's voteshare.

 

[RAWRferal]

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

I wonder why that is?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

How can you challenge this?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

People keep saying this, but it ignores that a large portion of those UKIP voters previously voted Labour. I thought that's what the 2015 result was all about? UKIP eating into Labour's voteshare.

Most of the UKIP vote is the vote that could be swung from the Tories towards Labour, not very many of them are solid Labour voters historically.

 

[Lagamorph]

People keep saying this, but it ignores that a large portion of those UKIP voters previously voted Labour. I thought that's what the 2015 result was all about? UKIP eating into Labour's voteshare.

The reason they went to UKIP was to leave the EU. The Tories are now basically the Brexit party so for anyone with Brexit as their top priority they're likely to shift from UKIP to the Conservatives, no matter who they shifted to UKIP from.

 

[Chinner]

I wonder why that is?

Oh it's obvious, worth mentioning though.

 

[*Splinter]

The reason they went to UKIP was to leave the EU. The Tories are now basically the Brexit party so for anyone with Brexit as their top priority they're likely to shift from UKIP to the Conservatives, no matter who they shifted to UKIP from.

I understand that, I just think it's disingenuous to say that nothing is changing (ie. "this isn't Labour/Corbyn's fault, this is all just because of movements between other parties, nothing to do with us").

If it were as simple as "UKIP voters coming home" they'd be going to both parties, this is Labour's loss.

I see Billy contesting the idea that many of these voted Labour beforehand, I'll do more reading before I respond to that.

 

[Spuck-uk]

People keep saying this, but it ignores that a large portion of those UKIP voters previously voted Labour. I thought that's what the 2015 result was all about? UKIP eating into Labour's voteshare.

Yes, I'm comparing 2015 to now. Nothing about May is inspiring, in fact I'd argue she's far worse at being a leader than Cameron was, at least he had that poshboy slickness to him.

 

[Zaph]

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

Yup. Can't stand the man but it is really concerning how much of the media blindly toes the Tory line, or are scared witless by them.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I understand that, I just think it's disingenuous to say that nothing is changing (ie. "this isn't Labour/Corbyn's fault, this is all just because of movements between other parties, nothing to do with us").

If it were as simple as "UKIP voters coming home" they'd be going to both larties, this is Labour's loss.

I see Billy contesting that many of these voted Labour beforehand, I'll do more reading before I respond to that.

John Curtice made the point pretty well after one of the recent by-elections.

 

[Ravensmash]

How can you challenge this?

Wow, the Tories really are making this very presidential.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

The media follow mood as much as try and influence it, they just want sales and views.

Get it right and even The Sun will jump ship to be on the right side. It's the oppositions job to challenge, and electing someone other than a walking disaster would help.

 

[Uzzy]

You need a manifesto to get things through the lords, where the conservatives still don't have a majority. If it's not in a manifesto, then by convention the lords can keep blocking it for a long time.

True. I recall seeing an article from the FT talking about tensions over the manifesto and including specific promises for that very reason. But then again I can also see the Tories arguing that on the back of a thumping majority, that the Lords shouldn't be opposing the 'will of the people', regardless of previous conventions. We've already had two flashpoints between the Commons and the Lords in the previous Parliament.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn, but honestly the amount of heat he gets from the media us completely disproportionate. Meanwhile the Tories are virtually unchallenged.

Corbyn was quoted as saying he might, possibly consider stuff re: uni costs. Even by political standards that's ridiculous.

 

[Real Hero]

The media follow mood as much as try and influence it, they just want sales and views.

Get it right and even The Sun will jump ship to be on the right side. It's the oppositions job to challenge, and electing someone other than a walking disaster would help.

Even if Corbyn was super popular and ahead in the polls the Sun would not support him.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Even if Corbyn was super popular and ahead in the polls the Sun would not support him.

They would because the mood of the country is where the money is and the future Government is the one they will have to deal with. But this is like asking if Corbyn was a completely different Corbyn and Labour was a completely different Labour.

It's hard to compare parallel universes. Blair understood this totally though.

 

[Audioboxer]

Wow, the Tories really are making this very presidential.

They're trying to veer the UK into a mini-America, from how elections are handled/promoted (lots of smearing/personal attacking/hostility/smoke and mirrors), to UK policy, and I don't think it's that good a thing. Look at the state America is currently in and the hostility of the fighting between sides (violence is quite common now too) and breakdown of inclusiveness/social help and care from their Government. All about the $, perpetuating wealth inequality and of course, you can never mention America without gawking at their healthcare.

The attitudes towards Brexit and how negotiations are being handled is like something right out of Trump's handbook too. Nobody will mess with America the great/Nobody will mess with Britain... the great? Apart from policies ravaging the UK and the people, the way in which the Conservatives want to present the UK to the rest of the world is upsetting many. Unfortunately, this brash, bullish and me me me attitude is galvanising a lot of public support. Many of the daily men and women seem to enjoy the selfish, hard and bullish exterior. Hard to explain why many get a rise of out trampling on those they perceive as "below" them on the foodchain. Years of being reinforced that if you want to blame anyone for your own woes you go right to the disabled/poor certainly isn't helping.

I mean this is apparently from that Tory councillor on question time last night

Yes, people are living longer, but FFS there is ways to talk about that, that don't make you sound like a twat.

 

[Jezbollah]

..Got my poll card through today folks.

*happeningbunker.gif*

 

[sasliquid]

Guardian did a piece on my local constituency

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...st-can-labour-hold-its-lucky-seat-of-20-years

I voted green last time but it no longer feels safe. My family is worried there's a rat in our house and I'll vote labour to keep rats out of our MPs seat.

Gotta do some campaigning.

 

[PJV3]

They would because the mood of the country is where the money is and the future Government is the one they will have to deal with. But this is like asking if Corbyn was a completely different Corbyn and Labour was a completely different Labour.

It's hard to compare parallel universes. Blair understood this totally though.

I think you also can't be a threat to his business empire, Ed was threatening to break up the Murdoch hold on media, he would never have got support even if you forget his strong stance during the hacking scandal.

 

[Maledict]

I don't want to sound mean, but if you think this is a new thing with the tories focussing on Theresa you need to go back and look at how previous elections have been done. Thatcher wasn't exactly running a cabinet style democracy, and Blair was absolutely the front and centre piece of new labours campaign. It's not new to focus on your leader when the opposition leader is a joke.

Also, this election is to be frank quite tame in terms of attacks. For one thing, the tories don't need to attack - they just repeat 'strong and stable leadership' and watch Corbyn and his team self explode anytime they need to go near a microphone. We've had much more unpleasant campaigns, even in recent memory (last London Mayor election?). In fact I'd say Ed was treated far worse by the press than Corbyn, simply because with Ed they made stuff up and poked fun at his weirdness, whereas with Corbyn they poke fun and attack his stated positions and policies...

 

[Audioboxer]

I don't want to sound mean, but if you think this is a new thing with the tories focussing on Theresa you need to go back and look at how previous elections have been done. Thatcher wasn't exactly running a cabinet style democracy, and Blair was absolutely the front and centre piece of new labours campaign. It's not new to focus on your leader when the opposition leader is a joke.

Also, this election is to be frank quite tame in terms of attacks. For one thing, the tories don't need to attack - they just repeat 'strong and stable leadership' and watch Corbyn and his team self explode anytime they need to go near a microphone. We've had much more unpleasant campaigns, even in recent memory (last London Mayor election?). In fact I'd say Ed was treated far worse by the press than Corbyn, simply because with Ed they made stuff up and poked fun at his weirdness, whereas with Corbyn they poke fun and attack his stated positions and policies...

If that's aimed at me I'm not saying it's a new thing, more so that it's really working on the general public now. Which is very much like how America does it. Popularity contests where it's about who can get the best zingers, drop the verbal bombs and troll the opponent to the highest order.

When you see this - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=236527128&postcount=5274 and then you correlate that with so many of the general public "squeamish" to vote based on what counts most, policy, and rather for "who's da man" then I can't help list off what I did.

I fully agree a "good leader" is needed, I bashed Salmond enough for being terrible. Corbyn is not a good leader, but the actual Labour party as a whole are still putting forward policies that many who scream "monster!" at Corbyn, would benefit from. Benefit greatly from. I never got lost down the rabbit hole of it's all about an X-Factor competition where I'll knowingly vote to fuck myself because I can't possibly have my friends and neighbours know I voted for the uncool candidate. Think of the FB drama that will ensue if I say I voted for Corbyn!

 

[DECK'ARD]

I think you also can't be a threat to his business empire, Ed was threatening to break up the Murdoch hold on media, he would never have got support even if you forget his strong stance during the hacking scandal.

I'd agree, it comes down to how much you want to play the game in order to be in a position to change the things you want to. And over-estimating your own appeal is a sure fire way to blow it.

Corbyn is just playing with his ball in the corner of the playground and having a sulk when no one wants to play with him. And he's not giving up that ball no matter what.

He needs a new hobby like gardening.

 

[Par Score]

We got about 48 hours of manifesto positivity, so naturally captain dickhead is now moving onto his pet-project stuff, namely the most toxic of foreign policies.

The War on Terror is a bigger failure than The War on Drugs.

Walking hand in hand with Donald "grab 'em by the pussy" Trump as he trudges towards conflicts with everywhere from Syria to North Korea will be a disaster for our country.

That saying this is seen as "toxic" shows just how fucked we are.

 

[Maledict]

If that's aimed at me I'm not saying it's a new thing, more so that it's really working on the general public now. Which is very much like how America does it. Popularity contests where it's about who can get the best zingers, drop the verbal bombs and troll the opponent to the highest order.

When you see this - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=236527128&postcount=5274 and then you correlate that with so many of the general public "squeamish" to vote based on what counts most, policy, and rather for "who's da man" then I can't help list off what I did.

I fully agree a "good leader" is needed, I bashed Salmond enough for being terrible. Corbyn is not a good leader, but the actual Labour party as a whole are still putting forward policies that many who scream "monster!" at Corbyn, would benefit from. Benefit greatly from. I never got lost down the rabbit hole of it's all about an X-Factor competition where I'll knowingly vote to fuck myself because I can't possibly have my friends and neighbours know I voted for the uncool candidate. Think of the FB drama that will ensure if I say I voted for Corbyn!

This has *always* been the case though. People on the left have to drop this cross they bear over 'people like our policies but not the leader omg politics shouldn't be about personalities'. Politics is. It *always* has been. Policies don't make up for a poor leader, and people often prize the appearance of competence ahead of words on a piece of paper. That's the game, that's how it is played and that's how it's always been played. We either learn it (again) or keep losing. Moaning about it doesn't help us, because that's never worked.

Just as a counterflip, the same is true in Scotland. Nicole Sturgeon is a fantastic leader, and she gets votes because people like her, trust her and respect her - even though some polices the other parties are pushing would be better for them. People are more interested in a leader so they think understands them and will fight for them rather than someone whose policies might better align with them.

 

[Chinner]

They're trying to veer the UK into a mini-America, from how elections are handled/promoted (lots of smearing/personal attacking/hostility/smoke and mirrors), to UK policy, and I don't think it's that good a thing. Look at the state America is currently in and the hostility of the fighting between sides (violence is quite common now too) and breakdown of inclusiveness/social help and care from their Government. All about the $, perpetuating wealth inequality and of course, you can never mention America without gawking at their healthcare.

The attitudes towards Brexit and how negotiations are being handled is like something right out of Trump's handbook too. Nobody will mess with America the great/Nobody will mess with Britain... the great? Apart from policies ravaging the UK and the people, the way in which the Conservatives want to present the UK to the rest of the world is upsetting many. Unfortunately, this brash, bullish and me me me attitude is galvanising a lot of public support. Many of the daily men and women seem to enjoy the selfish, hard and bullish exterior. Hard to explain why many get a rise of out trampling on those they perceive as "below" them on the foodchain. Years of being reinforced that if you want to blame anyone for your own woes you go right to the disabled/poor certainly isn't helping.

I mean this is apparently from that Tory councillor on question time last night

Yes, people are living longer, but FFS there is ways to talk about that, that don't make you sound like a twat.

Thought we managed to get away from the social darwinism. Guess not.

 

[Audioboxer]

This has *always* been the case though. People on the left have to drop this cross they bear over 'people like our policies but not the leader omg politics shouldn't be about personalities'. Politics is. It *always* has been. Policies don't make up for a poor leader, and people often prize the appearance of competence ahead of words on a piece of paper. That's the game, that's how it is played and that's how it's always been played. We either learn it (again) or keep losing. Moaning about it doesn't help us, because that's never worked.

Just as a counterflip, the same is true in Scotland. Nicole Sturgeon is a fantastic leader, and she gets votes because people like her, trust her and respect her - even though some polices the other parties are pushing would be better for them. People are more interested in a leader so they think understands them and will fight for them rather than someone whose policies might better align with them.

If you look at the picture on the whole and don't think the UK is shifting further to a selfish, non-inclusive nation I'm not sure what to tell you. The way in which the parties campaigned for Brexit, a murder of an MP and the fallout of non-stop hostility between sides is pretty damning. The UK publicly in large numbers have been "weaponized" over time by parties (mostly Tories/UKIP) as they spend millions on PR/stylists and most likely psychologists to tap into primal fears/urges and use them. It's a scummy way to do politics, and yes, is very Americanised. Training people to constantly fight and attack those lower on the food chain than them. Don't hold MPs and their policies accountable, instead, attack the poor, attack the immigrants, attack the disabled and funnily enough attack your own NHS.

Popularity is indeed a big part of the picture, but why does "popular" in the UK keep seemingly shifting to "whoever the biggest asshole is, the cooler they are"? I mean, is that the solution for Labour? Go and find the largest cunt there is, who will out bully May and profit? If so, there is indeed a worthwhile debate to be had about what is going on with the general public, and not just why Corbyn/Milliband is a bad leader.

 

[Spuck-uk]

This has *always* been the case though. People on the left have to drop this cross they bear over 'people like our policies but not the leader omg politics shouldn't be about personalities'. Politics is. It *always* has been. Policies don't make up for a poor leader, and people often prize the appearance of competence ahead of words on a piece of paper. That's the game, that's how it is played and that's how it's always been played. We either learn it (again) or keep losing. Moaning about it doesn't help us, because that's never worked.

Just as a counterflip, the same is true in Scotland. Nicole Sturgeon is a fantastic leader, and she gets votes because people like her, trust her and respect her - even though some polices the other parties are pushing would be better for them. People are more interested in a leader so they think understands them and will fight for them rather than someone whose policies might better align with them.

Not disagreeing with you at all but fuuuuuck is it infuriating to see people vote against their own best interests over and over again.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Replace 'Republican' with 'Tory' and 'Democrat with '2015 Labour'

 

[Maledict]

If you look at the picture on the whole and don't think the UK is shifting further to a selfish, non-inclusive nation I'm not sure what to tell you. The way in which the parties campaigned for Brexit, a murder of an MP and the fallout of non-stop hostility between sides is pretty damning. The UK publicly in large numbers have been "weaponized" over time by parties (mostly Tories/UKIP) as they spend millions on PR/stylists and most likely psychologists to tap into primal fears/urges and use them. It's a scummy way to do politics, and yes, is very Americanised. Training people to constantly fight and attack those lower on the food chain than them. Don't hold MPs and their policies accountable, instead, attack the poor, attack the immigrants, attack the disabled and funnily enough attack your own NHS.

Popularity is indeed a big part of the picture, but why does "popular" in the UK keep seemingly shifting to "whoever the biggest asshole is, the cooler they are"? I mean, is that the solution for Labour? Go and find the largest cunt there is, who will out bully May and profit? If so, there is indeed a worthwhile debate to be had about what is going on with the general public, and not just why Corbyn/Milliband is a bad leader.

You have no actual evidence to say the nation is shifting particularly beyond an ugly and unpleasant political cycle that's the result of a number of unique factors. As a gay guy I'd strongly argue against the notion that we are becoming a less inclusive nation.

And the stuff you complain about has *always* been true. That's sort of my point - it always feels like we're reaching new lows, but the fact is this ugly side of politics has always been present in any democracy. It comes in cycles but doesn't mean the nation as a whole is sliding into the abyss (as awful as the current times are).

And labours solution isn't to find the biggest cunt. It's to find a capable of leader who actually looks and sounds like they can lead and fight for people -*thats* what people want to see. Blair was a damn nicer guy than IDS or Howard and he won.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'd agree, it comes down to how much you want to play the game in order to be in a position to change the things you want to. And over-estimating your own appeal is a sure fire way to blow it.

Corbyn is just playing with his ball in the corner of the playground and having a sulk when no one wants to play with him. And he's not giving up that ball no matter what.

He needs a new hobby like gardening.

"Instead of Prime Ministers Question time, he should be listening to Gardeners' Question Time!"

<rabble rabble, HERE HERE, rabble rabble>

Hire me Theresa!

 

[Audioboxer]

You have no actual evidence to say the nation is shifting particularly beyond an ugly and unpleasant political cycle that's the result of a number of unique factors. As a gay guy I'd strongly argue against the notion that we are becoming a less inclusive nation.

And the stuff you complain about has *always* been true. That's sort of my point - it always feels like we're reaching new lows, but the fact is this ugly side of politics has always been present in any democracy. It comes in cycles but doesn't mean the nation as a whole is sliding into the abyss (as awful as the current times are).

And labours solution isn't to find the biggest cunt. It's to find a capable of leader who actually looks and sounds like they can lead and fight for people -*thats* what people want to see. Blair was a damn nicer guy than IDS or Howard and he won.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. Homophobia may not be anywhere near as bad as it is in the US, in the UK, but xenophobia and classism is pretty rife. There is continual outright contempt for those on the fringes of society, notably those in poverty, those with substance abuse/mental health issues, and even those born with disabilities. As I said, constantly blame your own woes on those below you. It's them stealing your taxes. It's them breaking the NHS. It's them taking all the zero hour contracts/low paid jobs and leaving you unemployed. It's never about you, your own life, what you vote for and the parties you support who enforce Government policies/laws.

But okay, you can keep arguing this is the status quo, and we aren't changing as a nation, but you know what, some people want to try and shift away from the status quo. One big reason I want Scotland to break away from it. Leaving the Union is taking a meat cleaver to a piece of meat instead of a steak knife, however, maybe you're right, the UK, on the whole, wants the status quo to stay and to escape it there really isn't much hope left rather than to cut your chunk of meat away, for good.

I'd rather for the people across the rUK there is a little bit more hope because unlike Scotland others cannot rely on the bail option (unless you're talking moving country which for most is hyperbole born out of frustration, not an actual option). Therefore, an attempt to try and dig down and honestly speak about what the hell is happening in the UK other than "LOL CORBYN". I've said multiple times the leader is part of the problem, but in my opinion, it's not where the discussion stops. Understanding why people vote against their interests shouldn't just stop with "it's a popularity contest bruh". Surface analysis of what is often a multi-tiered situation.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Well, here's a story in The Guardian about my constituency.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lib-dem-voters-could-give-theresa-may-a-fight

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

You have no actual evidence to say the nation is shifting particularly beyond an ugly and unpleasant political cycle that's the result of a number of unique factors. As a gay guy I'd strongly argue against the notion that we are becoming a less inclusive nation.

And the stuff you complain about has *always* been true. That's sort of my point - it always feels like we're reaching new lows, but the fact is this ugly side of politics has always been present in any democracy. It comes in cycles but doesn't mean the nation as a whole is sliding into the abyss (as awful as the current times are).

And labours solution isn't to find the biggest cunt. It's to find a capable of leader who actually looks and sounds like they can lead and fight for people -*thats* what people want to see. Blair was a damn nicer guy than IDS or Howard and he won.

I'd have to say that on the face of things, we are witnessing a cultural backlash across much of the west. Many of the things we take for granted in terms of what the acceptable norms are, the things that have been hard fought for, have actually came in suddenly and there's been a longer period of building resentment than there was transitioning to the status quo of today.

Gay rights are an excellent case in point. In a remarkably short period, brilliant progress has been made. Gay marriage is as normal as anything else, perhaps even ten years ago that may have seemed remarkable. In this country perhaps, something like this will be untouchable; there are too many gay tories, for a start. We're lucky that the conversation has yet to fully shift onto religious moral issues, the way it has in the US.

Despite this there are a number of other 'outlets' for the shock of the pace of social change, immigration and Islam being the main two. I think the inability of the left to deal with this is one of the principle reasons for much of the unrest and upheaval. There has to be a way of talking about this kind of thing with someone who has seen their 'normal' disintegrate in the last 20 years without windmilling at them for bigotry.

 

[Showaddy]

Lib Dems apparently pledge to legalise Cannabis. I've been surprised over the last few years how progressive some US states have been on this. Hope the Tories and Labour will change their position on it eventually.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-liberal-democrats-will-pledge-to-completely-legalise

Since the rise of synthetic cannabis products like Spice across the country this is never going to happen. Absolutely brain melting shit.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Since the rise of synthetic cannabis products like Spice across the country this is never going to happen. Absolutely brain melting shit.

Evil stuff.

And as one chemical is identified and banned another is used. I mean if you're doing drugs at least know what the fuck you are taking.

Legal highs in general were Russian Roulette, the Government made things 10 times worse with an election looming by trying to ban them all including Mephedrone which was quite understood and never killed anyone despite the tabloid stories.

The head of the drug advisory committee resigned saying much worse was coming and here we are. One of my mates was completely fucked up by some shit called Ivory Wave thinking it was the same as Mephedrone and took the same amount.

Had a complete psychotic break, the stories of which were plain scary with seeing people in his house who led him to the chemist to get stuff to overdose on. He's never been the same since, and I talked him out of a suicide attempt a few moths later and flushed his mum's pain medication that he had on him down the toilet.

 

[Ravensmash]

Since the rise of synthetic cannabis products like Spice across the country this is never going to happen. Absolutely brain melting shit.

Synthetic cannabis only came to prominence because it was a legal alternative.

Cannabis prohibition is to blame for the synthetic epidemic.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Synthetic cannabis only came to prominence because it was a legal alternative.

Cannabis prohibition is to blame for the synthetic epidemic.

It would kill the demand, but if you're going to do this you need to grasp the nettle and tackle the party drugs as well.

It's the same problem, and we were THIS close to an intelligent debate about it while the country was swimming in Mephedrone.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

In other news, Momentum launched a website to help people find their nearest marginal to campaign in.

Except it's actually being ran by 'contributors', who are all momentum, and as such it only points out seats that those people have a personal interest in, and as such gives inaccurate information that protects the people momentum like at the expense of those actually in your closest marginal.

 

[Auctopus]

BBC is losing credibility every day with me now...

BBC cameraman's foot run over by Jeremy Corbyn car

This isn't GE news but it's clearly written to fling dirt on Corbyn. Who cares if it was Corbyn's car? He wasn't driving! Also, they provide video evidence of the guy standing stupidly close the car - he deserves a few broken toes for being an idiot.

But the least surprising thing about this event is that front and centre in these pictures is Laura Kuesenburg. I swear there was a time when BBC was a genuinely neutral news sources but that time seems to have passed. The fact that they listed this under General Election news just proves it.