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[Ripclawe]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4963095-110247,00.html

so using a case where a 8 year old child was tortured and physically abused for months by 2 pieces of shit, that spanking is on the same level? pathetic, the pussification of the world continues.

 

[firex]

Even ... in the bedroom?

 

[ManDudeChild]

Just what we need, more kids that don't behave.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[cja]

Can't let the little darlings have a temporary bruise but if you want to give them lung cancer by passively smoke around them all the time thats fine!

 

[Phoenix]

While I don't live in the UK I can say for sure that I will spank my kids whenever they need it regardless of whether or not it is illegal. If the government wants to take 100% financial and moral responsibility for my kids - they can tell me what to do. Until then, they can suck my ass.

 

[ItalianStallion]

I still fear my mom and her hitting with the wooden spoon. She actually had a big ass pasta spoon specially bought just for hitting me. It set me straight from the ages of 5-13. After that though, I got bigger then her.

 

[The Faceless Master]

getting my ass whipped after hitting my brother with a rock straightened me out... i didnt do that shit ever again...

getting my ass whipped after setting some bushes on fire made me stop playing with fire too...

 

[miyuru]

I still fear my mom and her hitting with the wooden spoon. She actually had a big ass pasta spoon specially bought just for hitting me. It set me straight from the ages of 5-13. After that though, I got bigger then her.

:s

Painful memories. We still have that spoon ;_;

 

[Matt]

I’ve always been at a lose to understand the idea that physical abuse is the only proper way to discipline children. I also always find it funny that it’s the ones that were disciplined in such a manor that are always singing it’s praises. Methinks this might be due to some sort of deep-seated need for misplaced revenge.

 

[Invader Zim]

I’ve always been at a lose to understand the idea that physical abuse is the only proper way to discipline children. I also always find it funny that it’s the ones that were disciplined in such a manor that are always singing it’s praises. Methinks this might be due to some sort of deep-seated need for misplaced revenge.

No, it's more like that it worked just fine for us. I got spanked many times when I did things that were against the rules. I turned out just fine. I spank my kids when they do something wrong.

My kids are both well-behaved and polite compared to their friends and classmates. And it's no secret why. Nobody else spanks and they have hellions. If you actually think time-out works, volunteer for a day at pre-school and you'll change your mind in less than an hour. It's easy to tell the kids who have discipline and the ones that don't.

 

[Matt]

No, it's more like that it worked just fine for us. I got spanked many times when I did things that were against the rules. I turned out just fine. I spank my kids when they do something wrong.

My kids are both well-behaved and polite compared to their friends and classmates. And it's no secret why. Nobody else spanks and they have hellions. If you actually think time-out works, volunteer for a day at pre-school and you'll change your mind in less than an hour. It's easy to tell the kids who have discipline and the ones that don't.

I and my sisters were never spanked. Ask any of our teachers, camp counselors, etc. to name the best behaved kids they ever had, and I am sure we would be on the list (most likely on top.) I know a ton of kids that were spanked, hit, etc., and many of them are the rudest, meanest people you could know.

And I have been a counselor for pre-schoolers.

 

[Blackace]

Even at almost 27 years old I wouldn't dare raise my voice in a harsh way to my father for fear of an ass whooping.... I remember when this law came in to effect in the states,I was around 12. I told my dad if he spanked me (for skipping school and they called) I would CPS and he would be in trouble. He put down the belt, grabbed the phone and said here I'll help you dial! They can take you and your f*&king brother both! After that I took my ass whoopping and cried in my room... hahah good times... I love my father for giving me ass whoopings when I needed them...

 

[Invader Zim]

You must live in Mary Popinsville, USA then because only very rarely have I ever met a child that doesn't get spanked more well-behaved than one that does.

 

[way more]

No spanking in the UK? They just lost my tourism and debauchery dollars.

 

[Phoenix]

I’ve always been at a lose to understand the idea that physical abuse is the only proper way to discipline children. I also always find it funny that it’s the ones that were disciplined in such a manor that are always singing it’s praises. Methinks this might be due to some sort of deep-seated need for misplaced revenge.

Its all about determining what's necessary. Sometimes you can reason with a child, but children are not stupid. Psychological punishment is not always effective and in those instances physical punishment may become the only recourse. Under those circumstances it should be done if discipline and respect of authority is to be maintained.

 

[etiolate]

I don't remember any lesson that I learned from spanking other than it hurts and made me cry. If I want to inflict that upon my children then I'll just wait till they're teenagers and they can do it to themselves through relationships.

 

[Matt]

Its all about determining what's necessary. Sometimes you can reason with a child, but children are not stupid. Psychological punishment is not always effective and in those instances physical punishment may become the only recourse. Under those circumstances it should be done if discipline and respect of authority is to be maintained.

I just don’t see that. Like you said, kids aren’t stupid, and when a parent hurts a child when they want to get a point across, all that really does (from my perspective) is teach child that violence is that right way to solve a problem. Sure, a kid might behave better for the short-term out of fear, but think about what it’s doing in the long-term.

You can raise a well behaved child without physical discipline, I and millions others are proof of that. Maybe it just involves being a better parent, or that is, having better judgment when you start off. I can think of a lot of things I don’t like about mine, but somehow they taught me to always do the right things by reasoning with me, and not punishing me. In fact, I can’t really remember any time I was “punished” at all, not just physical, but I wasn’t ever even sent to my room or anything really. They explained to me what I did wrong, I apologized, corrected the error, and we didn’t speak of it again.

Also, just out of curiosity, how the hell can anyone bring themselfs to hit a child? If I ever saw that in public, I’m afraid there are few things that could stop me from doing something about it, my business or not.

 

[Phoenix]

I and millions others are proof of that. Maybe it just involves being a better parent, or that is, having better judgment when you start off. I can think of a lot of things I don’t like about mine, but somehow they taught me to always do the right things by reasoning with me, and not punishing me. In fact, I can’t really remember any time I was “punished” at all, not just physical, but I wasn’t ever even sent to my room or anything really. They explained to me what I did wrong, I apologized, corrected the error, and we didn’t speak of it again.

You must realize that not every child is like you were or like I was. My parents had to discipline me very rarely and they most certainly didn't always use physical punishment. There were times when they did and that was that. Every child is different and every situation is different. You can't always reason with a child any more than you can always reason with an adult.

 

[Matt]

You must realize that not every child is like you were or like I was. My parents had to discipline me very rarely and they most certainly didn't always use physical punishment. There were times when they did and that was that. Every child is different and every situation is different. You can't always reason with a child any more than you can always reason with an adult.

I understand that, and I understand that some children are more difficult then others. That’s not the point. Just because something is hard it doesn’t mean you can take the easy way out, which is what spanking, etc. is (at least IMO.)

And like I said, I have a pretty good range of experience with kids (considering I’m not a parent), from taking child psychology classes and taking care of children one-on-one to being a counselor with many children to take care of. Not that that makes me an expert (far, far, far from it,) but I also certainly have a good amount of experience with many different kids, but I have never hit them, I have never used threat of violence to get them to listen to me, and I was near taught by my instructors that violence is an acceptable discipline device form children.

 

[Phoenix]

I understand that, and I understand that some children are more difficult then others. That’s not the point. Just because something is hard it doesn’t mean you can take the easy way out, which is what spanking, etc. is (at least IMO.)

I definitely wouldn't call it the easy way out any more than I would call saying 'go sit in time out' an easy way out. You have to find what a child will respond to and thats going to vary from child to child. I have this discussion with my mom often when I go home. She's got her PhD in Early Childhood Education and has been teaching for over 30 years now (readying for retiring). It all comes down to finding out how to deal with a child smart enough to manipulate you since you aren't really doing anything to prevent them from doing what they want. Without a penalty of some sort - some children will do whatever they want. As physical punishment has been removed from the school system the only thing you end up doing is removing these children from the learning process - sitting in time out or the principals office, etc. This is problematic as well and leads to one of the problematic situations with the school system where children with behavioral problems become children with educational problems and eventually become societal problems.

If spanking a child is the only way to reach that child - it should not be prohibited. It can't get out of hand, but it would not be responsible to remove what may be the only avenue to reach a child. It may only take once time for that child to realize that they can't just have their way, but if the child realizes that there is no relevant penalty for their actions, they will become more brazen in their attempts.

 

[SFA_AOK]

"UK getting ready to outlaw all spanking"

I just saw the evening news (and there's probably been some development of the situation since then) and it sounds like the amendment is going to go ahead (see this BBC story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3864001.stm which also seems to suggest this) so smacking will be allowed, just not smacking that causes bruising, swelling, scratches etc. And I think that's reasonable, if you have to beat your kid until they're back and blue then there's more than the child at fault.

 

[Phoenix]

"UK getting ready to outlaw all spanking"

I just saw the evening news (and there's probably been some development of the situation since then) and it sounds like the amendment is going to go ahead (see this BBC story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3864001.stm which also seems to suggest this) so smacking will be allowed, just not smacking that causes bruising, swelling, scratches etc. And I think that's reasonable, if you have to beat your kid until they're back and blue then there's more than the child at fault.

Indeed. If you're leaving a mark - something is definitely wrong with you and you need to seek help.

 

[Deg]

This doesnt mean much its just updating things for today. I laugh at the people here who thought they were thinking of outlawing all smacking and use of force as that would be impossible to control.

Of course it would be considered wrong if you were actually causing 'harm' as in doing something wrong to the child (cutting, damage to body and the usual stuff around that).

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4963095-110247,00.html

so using a case where a 8 year old child was tortured and physically abused for months by 2 pieces of shit, that spanking is on the same level? pathetic, the pussification of the world continues.

No need to get worked up about pussifying anything. Thats spin on your part. None of the UK tv channels are saying anything like what you are saying and the British media ussualy make a big deal about things.

This is a joke. The lack of discipline in UK schools is bad enough as it is without the cane, to see this spreading into the home is disheartening.

Because kids in schools in other countries are so well behaved

I’ve always been at a lose to understand the idea that physical abuse is the only proper way to discipline children.

Abuse is different and of course thats not going to be allowed.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

Too many parents seem to hit their kids out of anger, not as a way to make them behave. That is my problem with it.

 

[Kon Tiki]

"We don't need no education..."

(too lazy to screen cap a pic from the mucis video)

 

[Phoenix]

This doesnt mean much its just updating things for today. I laugh at the people here who thought they were thinking of outlawing all smacking and use of force as that would be impossible to control.

So is drug use, but its very much outlawed

 

[Ryo]

You guys who think spanking is ok sickens me. Spanking is illegal in any form in Sweden and I am thankfull for that. It is insane to think that it is ok to hit someone just because they are smaller and can't defend themselves. And not to forget they are mentally weaker too. "Oh I am tall as hell and strong as an ox, and I live with three midgets, it is OK for me to hit them because I am bigger and stronger." Just pathetic. I am 100% sure that any parent wouldn't hit their kids if they knew they were going to get hit back and could't do anything about it, like the kids feel. They can't hit back, and even if they could, it would be hitting someone they love. I think hitting your children is just as bad as hitting your wife/husband.

 

[dem]

Spanking is fine..
Jesus christ some of you are sensitive. Getting smacked on the ass is hardly the same as getting a beating. You talk like spanking is the same as punching someone in the face.

 

[Ryo]

jebus....

You talk like spanking is the same as punching someone in the face.

It is the same thing.. just not as hard. The thing about spanking is the act of laying hand om someone else. If it is hard or not is not the issue.

 

[tenchir]

I have a fear of feather dusters. Whenever me or my brother do some dumb shit, my mother and her feather duster set us straight. I am definitely sure if she didn't punished us with physical punishment, I would still be doing dumb shit. You have to teach them when they are young that they WILL get punish for doing something wrong(or dumb).

 

[The Promised One]

I and my sisters were never spanked. Ask any of our teachers, camp counselors, etc. to name the best behaved kids they ever had, and I am sure we would be on the list (most likely on top.) I know a ton of kids that were spanked, hit, etc., and many of them are the rudest, meanest people you could know.

And I have been a counselor for pre-schoolers.

Fact is, you and your sister are rare. 99% of the children on the planet are not that naturally well behaved.

 

[The Promised One]

And like I said, I have a pretty good range of experience with kids (considering I’m not a parent), from taking child psychology classes and taking care of children one-on-one to being a counselor with many children to take care of.

That's far different than being a parent.

 

[The Promised One]

You guys who think spanking is ok sickens me. Spanking is illegal in any form in Sweden and I am thankfull for that. It is insane to think that it is ok to hit someone just because they are smaller and can't defend themselves. And not to forget they are mentally weaker too. "Oh I am tall as hell and strong as an ox, and I live with three midgets, it is OK for me to hit them because I am bigger and stronger." Just pathetic. I am 100% sure that any parent wouldn't hit their kids if they knew they were going to get hit back and could't do anything about it, like the kids feel. They can't hit back, and even if they could, it would be hitting someone they love. I think hitting your children is just as bad as hitting your wife/husband.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If that's what spanking was about, I'd be against it as well.

 

[tenchir]

I forgot to mentioned that while me and my brothers had physical punishment, my little sister was never touched. It wasn't because that she's a girl, it was very likely that my parents and older siblings(including me) raised her pretty well. She's an A student, relatively popular at her school, gone out of the house often with her friends. Me, my younger brothers, and my two older sibling on the other hand were monsters. I remember back at the stupid things I did and didn't blame my parents for the feather dusters punishment. We pretty much raised her so that she doesn't do those stupid things.

 

[Ryo]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If that's what spanking was about, I'd be against it as well.

I have every idea what I am talking about.

What I am saying is that laying hand on someone else is wrong, whoever it may be. And that by spanking your children you are abusing them, and sending them the signal that hitting someone is ok. I don't think it is OK, even if it is mild and "doesn't leave a mark" (that one sickens me also. Gives me association to women abusers who hit their wifes just so much that it won't show. And no I don't say it is the same thing, but I get that association)

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Ryo]

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. What would you do in case you were attacked in the street somewhere? If you caught a robber in your house, would you kindly escort him out? Sometimes there IS a need for violence to assert authority and to protect yourself.

Sure sure.. Violence in self defence is one thing. Spanking your kid in self defence though, is not that common I think.

 

[Deg]

Fact is, you and your sister are rare. 99% of the children on the planet are not that naturally well behaved.

Yes we are living in anarchy

I'm pretty sure the UK has one of the worst teen pregnancy rates in Europe and the yob culture right now is pretty disgusting. You only have to talk to a townie to see that.

Because teen pregnancy rates and yob culture have alot to do with spanking?... Use your brain. You cant spank a young adult or adult. Its not like young children are the ones going on drunkard rampages in the streets.

My own experiences at school were pretty nuts too, I saw kids smoking/drinking/taking drugs at the age of 13, bringing in weapons, attempts at robbery, to name a few. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in other countries, but the UK is easily amongst the worst in this regard.

UK is easily amongst the worst? Check again. 3rd world countries where spanking is common in schools are much worser at what you are mentioning.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Deg]

Err...it points towards a lack of discipline. I have a hard time believing you know much of the subject. It has been widely reported on the news and media that yob culture is a teenage thing now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1053913.stm

You should really research before posting

Nice except its got nothing to do with Yob culture(you gave a link to young crime) which is dominated by 16-30 year olds and is being linked to drink often. A good example is the Euro 2004 mess. There most certainly werent 'children' causing trouble.

You cannot compare the UK to third world countries, and even then, I have relatives back in India who would not even dream of answering back to a teacher out of fear of being caned. Compare the UK to its European neighbours and you'll find it's amongst the worst.

Behaviour of children isnt much different in India and the UK. I know this because i was a child in many environments during my school years. I'd say spanking causes alot of hate towards teachers and the school. You just dont get that level of hate in UK schools.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Deg]

Well your definition varies from mine, which is closer to Blunkett's definition:

What definition? May i show you some more articles from your beloved BBC site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3811577.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3746965.stm

As you can see Yob culture isnt exactly an age thing. Bear in mind this isnt the videogame world where 'mature' people are in their 20's or 30's.

This is where I again doubt your knowledge. Indians are VERY conservative. When a Indian kid does something stupid, not only is he punished for what he did, he is also punished for bringing shame to the family name. The Indian police aren't forgiving either, if you get caught breaking the law you will get beaten in a police cell. When you combine these two, you have a structure that discourages anti social behaviour. It's why you'll never hear of a yob culture in India.

You clearly dont know anything about India. Have you even lived there and been in school in both countries?

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Deg]

You misunderstand me. To me, yob culture includes alcohol aided crime, youth crime, ASB and so on. That's the generally accepted definition. It doesn't solely include alcohol fuelled crime.

I agree with that and the term 'yob' isnt just reserved for any specific age group if you look at the articles.

That's pretty hilarious, you do realise I'm Indian, right?

That doesnt matter. The question is did you live there and went school in both countries?

There are plenty of people who share your view but have not been to school in both countries.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Deg]

I have made three trips to India, and have been there for 7 months in total. I did not attend school in India since I was brought up in the UK and went to school here.

Ha. You were just making assumptions with no hard facts to go on. I know you feel strongly but like many people who are in your shoes they dont really know how it is.

However, I don't see your point. Why do I need first hand experience of being in an Indian school when both my parents and the majority of my family have been in one? I'm practically told daily of how easy I have it in the UK compared to their upbringing.

They are talking the same BS that older generations also said to them. You might say those same words to newer generations yourself in the future

 

[SFA_AOK]

Err...it points towards a lack of discipline. I have a hard time believing you know much of the subject.

I should think that the kids causing trouble today probably were spanked. But spanking is not some sort of miracle cure. Bad parenting + smacking = problems down the line. Not to mention that there are plenty of other issues involved - parents threatening teachers for disciplining their kids for example.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[Deg]

I just mentioned that my family members have been to Indian schools. That's an assumption with no hard facts? Right...

But its not your experience. Its theirs. You're getting information from them, how do you know they are telling you the reality or a skewed interpretation based on their feelings? Bear in mind in the UK things were different in the past.

Okay...1.1 billion people must be having a delusion since this is one of the most recognisable traits of Indian culture. Next you'll be telling me Indians don't like curry.

I've lived there i know what happens in school and i know what the culture is like. I'm not going off what someone else is syaing. I have been there. I know plenty of people who have never been India who shared your thoughts on this while i was in school in the UK(maybe i might have had that opinion if i didnt go school in another country). Problem is they assume Indian schools have better behaviour and then they assume its because of teachers being able to hit, more discipline etc. Problem is they dont know the reality.

You've clearly not lived in the UK in recent years since this issue is something so significant I expect it to become a part of election manifestos. I'm also willing to bet you've never been to India, and I'm probably one of the few Indians you've ever met. My advice: Do go out and meet some Indians and ask them about this issue.[.quote]

What if i am Indian and have lived there and been to school for many years and in the UK? What would you say about that?

If anything, you've been making the rash assumptions here, as I have first hand accounts to back myself up, home office figures and some 5000 years of culture. What evidence do you have? You've only pasted a vague report on Euro 2004 incidents (how exactly can a kid afford to go to portugal again?), which were on foreign soil. How convincing.

First hand accounts? Your stuff is too opinionated. Euro 2004 inicdents were mainly in the UK itself by the way

I'm done with this thread.

good.