UK Government: discussion on permanent ban for EU residents claiming benefits

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i'm a uk national, my partner is from outside the EU and we pay an absolute fortune in terms of the visa process and have zero entitlement to any form of public funds. i'm curious if this goes through as to whether they'll try to hit EU citizens living here with the NHS surcharge (and how it'd work in practice - currently £600 for first 2.5 years of residence, another £600 for the second 2.5 years before paying for the final right to remain at the end of the 5 years). how that eventually folds into whatever form people from the EU end up living here in, I've no idea.
 
King_Moc said:
A lot of racists out there. And people who've been bathing in the diarrhoea of Murdoch and Rothmere's rags.



Agreed. You pay into the system, you should get out of the system. Same as everyone else.
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And boy do we pay taxes in Norway but I dont mind as I see where it is going unlike the council tax in the UK. lol
 
Nivash said:
To add to this: most of the benefits are tax credits, not welfare. Only about 4 % are claiming out of work benefits.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.the...news-for-uk-economy?client=ms-android-samsung

Oh, and EU immigrants are net contributors as a group, they're basically subsidising the living standards of everyone else in the UK. The government is trying to imply that they're protecting the country when what they're actually doing is exploiting immigrants even harder while simultaneously risking a backfire. If this makes it less attractive for EU immigrants to work in the UK, the UK can very well stand to lose the most.
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That report is a bit dodgy, though, for two reasons. Firstly, it centres around the pre-Eastern-Expansion countries who do have higher levels of education and thus are more likely to find high paying work. But the bigger problem, and it seems so obvious to me that I worry that perhaps I'm missing something, is that welfare and benefits payments aren't the only way you cost a government money. I - as a UK citizen - have never received a penny of welfare or benefits payment personally, but obviously I've cost the country money. Aside from my education (which isn't applicable to most immigrants, who come here post-education), there's also hospital and doctor visits, there's subsidised prescriptions, there's the police and military from whom I receive a holistic protection, there are ambulances and fire services, the Olympics, public transport subsidies, infrastructure projects, road improvements blah blah blah blah. These are all things that aren't directly attributable to a single person like welfare payments are but does, nonetheless, cost the government money and largely scales with population. When we decided to build Crossrail, the money to do so came out of all our tax money, not just those that will use it. So I'm not sure that the way they calculate their numbers is particularly enlightening, because by that metric almost everyone is a net contributor - yet we have a budget deficit of about £65bn.
 
Our government are human scumbags. Yes, ignore the people not paying tax worth millions and blame it all on the people migrating here.

God I hate this country.
 
KurtSloane said:
Citizens should have more rights and benefits than immigrants.
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This doesn't answer my question, it just repeats your statement.

I also totally disagree with the idea that an immigrant should have less "rights" than anyone else in the country. Thats kind of the point in recognising something as a right in the first place

CyclopsRock said:
I don't wanna speak on behalf of someone else, but I suspect they wouldn't consider "settled with a job and paying taxes" to be a default position for a migrant, either; That's something that you acquire over time and my suspicion is that they'd see the benefits acquired over time too. The default position of a migrant is, naturally, one of having contributed nothing (since you can't contribute til you actually get here).
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The same poster already said
KurtSloane said:
If you work here and contribute, you shoukd get benefit in line with how much contributions you paid ..... when that runs out, no more.
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I don't really have a problem with the discussion about initial entitlement to benefits, or that there should be some notion of contribution before getting something back out, but this guy wants to cap the maximum amount to that which a migrant pays in, which goes against the entire point of the welfare system in the first place.
 
hodgy100 said:
yup this sounds like the UK benefits system. All the while people like you are demonised for being unable to better yourself at no fault of your own. and i assume you can't get disability because the powers that be deem you "healthy enough" despite you saying otherwise? Doctors should really be dictating who gets disability allowance, not a 3rd party :/
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Yep I am deemed not ill enough to get other benefits. Despite having a therapist and doctor I see every week say differently. I have to go for a ESA medical each year to get assessed by a person that only sees me once and is probably not a doctor (many of the people the ESA use aren't actual doctors). So if I have a good day and look well I am fucked and have to appeal to get back on benefits ( with reduced benefits the time it takes to appeal which is normally around a year).
 
KurtSloane Is just voicing what The Sun readers have in mind and voted for Brexit.

As someone who isn't a brit (Norwegian) who lives in UK, I am disappointing in his response.

Abusing Welfare should be banned whether you are a Brit or a Non-Brit. Saying its OK for an English person to do so because its his ''right'' is total bullshit.
 
StayDead said:
Our government are human scumbags. Yes, ignore the people not paying tax worth millions and blame it all on the people migrating here.

God I hate this country.
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What you have to remember is Britain is organised to be a beneficiary for billionaires who avoid taxes, it exists for oligarchs now :(
 
TimmmV said:
I don't really have a problem with the discussion about initial entitlement to benefits, or that there should be some notion of contribution before getting something back out, but this guy wants to cap the maximum amount to that which a migrant pays in, which goes against the entire point of the welfare system in the first place.
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Well, I dunno if I'd say it "goes against the entire point of the welfare system in the first place" since that's exactly how the welfare system worked in the first place, but yeah, I agree generally.
 
faridmon said:
KurtSloane Is just voicing what The Sun readers have in mind and voted for Brexit.

As someone who isn't a brit (Norwegian) who lives in UK, I am disappointing in his response.

Abusing Welfare should be banned whether you are a Brit or a Non-Brit. Saying its OK for an English person to do so because its his ''right'' is total bullshit.
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Yeah exactly controls should be in place but it should not be based around where someone was born especially as that person has no decision making about that choice.
 
I'm sorry, but that number isn't a lot in the grand scheme of government spending. You shouldn't treat immigrants as second class just because they didn't come out of a vagina on UK soil. Go after the rich tax dodging scum bags before you attack the poor, especially the poor workers from overseas who are working the jobs most of your population refuse
 
KurtSloane said:
I see no issue with this .... unemployed people coming here to get welfare shoukd be banned out right.


If you work here and contribute, you shoukd get benefit in line with how much contributions you paid ..... when that runs out, no more.
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Unemployment benefit doesn't get paid unless the claimant had has paid in for quite a few years iirc.

In work benefits get paid regardless of contribution status though and they can be quite lucrative to those willing to accept low pay to qualify or dare I say, lie.
 
If you pay taxes to a society then that society is your home. It should not be a privilege to receive the things that society provides. Either get employers to pay people more money (lol they won't in future tax haven UK) or accept that in work benefits are necessary. Unemployed people can't go seek welfare in EU countries anyway. I can't just fly to Sweden right now and sit on my ass doing nothing. I have to either have a realistic chance of getting a job in 3 months or have enough money with me to live on without going on welfare.
 
RenditMan said:
Unemployment benefit doesn't get paid unless the claimant had has paid in for quite a few years iirc.

In work benefits get paid regardless of contribution status though and they can be quite lucrative to those willing to accept low pay to qualify or dare I say, lie.
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the problem is this, wages need to be applicable to where they are being paid. Having people on zero hour contracts for peanuts doesn't help anyone and thats british folks or otherwise.
 
Alienfan said:
I'm sorry, but that number isn't a lot in the grand scheme of government spending. You shouldn't treat immigrants as second class just because they didn't come out of a vagina on UK soil. Go after the rich tax dodging scum bags before you attack the poor, especially the poor workers from overseas who are working the jobs most of your population refuse
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the government and press have successfully pitched the lower and middle classes against each other. its ridiculous. i've had full blown arguments with family about this. they dont get it. They care more that mary down the street is getting £100 a week more because they have a kid and took a part time job because they are a single parent that can't afford child care and wants to look after their kid (hypothetical situation). all because "they managed when times were tough so they should too". The lack of empathy is disgusting.
 
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what are you going to do with my fellow countrymen that went to work in UK in the later years, where are you going to get your nurses now UK
 
SirShizznit said:
the problem is this, wages need to be applicable to where they are being paid. Having people on zero hour contracts for peanuts doesn't help anyone and thats british folks or otherwise.
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Zero hours contracts are necessarily a bad thing, they do have their place for certain things. Their over prevalence in the market does indicate a possible over supply of labour which in turn makes it disposable.
 
RenditMan said:
Zero hours contracts are necessarily a bad thing, they do have their place for certain things. Their over prevalence in the market does indicate a possible over supply of labour which in turn makes it disposable.
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when my mum who is a carer has to go to a place that with fuel costs (even with fuel payments) costs more than the 30 min in call house visit makes and if she refuses she is off the rota for a week is terrible. If humans weren't spiteful vindictive bastards they would be fine but we are and they do not work.
 
paperghost said:
i'm a uk national, my partner is from outside the EU and we pay an absolute fortune in terms of the visa process and have zero entitlement to any form of public funds. i'm curious if this goes through as to whether they'll try to hit EU citizens living here with the NHS surcharge (and how it'd work in practice - currently £600 for first 2.5 years of residence, another £600 for the second 2.5 years before paying for the final right to remain at the end of the 5 years). how that eventually folds into whatever form people from the EU end up living here in, I've no idea.
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This is my nightmare if I ever want to live back in the uk. Currently living in my wifes country outside the eu as the process was far less complicated/expensive.
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Uber.
Walk. (it's not like you have time to spend on anything else)
Get a bike.

I just saved you £60 a month.
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the sentence that immediately precedes the one you respond to is
Beefy said:
Due to a health condition I can't take public transport (bus) and the job centre will not pay for taxis.
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gonna take a guess that whatever health condition Beefy has prevents him from following your "advice"
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Uber.
Walk. (it's not like you have time to spend on anything else)
Get a bike.

I just saved you £60 a month.
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I doubt that someone on ESA is able to walk or cycle particularly far, but neither of us know the OPs situation. I suspect if he isn't able to take a bus he can't walk or cycle. Uber is not available in most of the UK.
 
Royal_Phalanx said:
If you pay taxes to a society then that society is your home. It should not be a privilege to receive the things that society provides. Either get employers to pay people more money (lol they won't in future tax haven UK) or accept that in work benefits are necessary. Unemployed people can't go seek welfare in EU countries anyway. I can't just fly to Sweden right now and sit on my ass doing nothing. I have to either have a realistic chance of getting a job in 3 months or have enough money with me to live on without going on welfare.
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You could fly to Sweden, speak to an immigration lawyer and follow the advice of getting any work you can to earn the bare minimum and get the government to top your earnings up.

This would be an attractive if you are from a country with low employment prospects, very low wages and poor welfare system.
 
The UK definitely has moved into full immigrant hate mode. Had a Chinese classmate who tried to get a work visa recently and he failed despite his top grades in a STEM subject because his job wasn't on the shortage list and companies don't like sponsoring people to begin with. And they're talking about making people earn over £30,000 to get a visa now. Ironically the only way to get people to fill the job vacancies in that case is to keep free movement.
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Uber.
Walk. (it's not like you have time to spend on anything else)
Get a bike.

I just saved you £60 a month.
Click to expand...

Walk I can't due to my health condition, bike also. I suffer from depression/society anxiety and general anxiety, so I can't walk that far without throwing up or getting dizzy, I also can't use a bike due to my anxiety effecting how I judge traffic etc. Uber isn't a big thing were I live so is hard to get one on time and even if I could use Uber I would have to pay for it and I doubt irlt would be that much less. So nope you haven't saved me anything
 
Kule said:
This is my nightmare if I ever want to live back in the uk. Currently living in my wifes country outside the eu as the process was far less complicated/expensive.
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yeah, it's already horrendous and likely to increase steeply in price over the next few years. if we eventually end up with a "level" playing field (and by level, i mean "everyone is on the same terrible system") then the only end result i can see if the whole thing collapsing on itself - no way could they cope with EU residents in the UK being shunted onto a similar setup.
 
Beefy said:
Walk I can't due to my health condition, bike also. I suffer from depression/society anxiety and general anxiety, so I can't walk that far without throwing up or getting dizzy, I also can't use a bike due to my anxiety effecting how I judge traffic etc. Uber isn't a big thing were I live so is hard to get one on time and even if I could use Uber I would have to pay for it and I doubt irlt would be that much less. So nope you haven't saved me anything
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Uber would still cost you money anyway so its not like you'd be saving £60 maybe like £20. Poster is just being a twat.

dreamcastmaster said:
My god, I'm so so sorry. I must be a moron.

P.S.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=918901&highlight=

#youweresaying?
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what kind of person do you think you are that you can pass judgement like you are. This was over 2 years ago so perhaps his situation has changed perhaps videogames are his only fucking entertainment. are people on the breadline like this required to sit there in silence staring at a wall because god forbid they save what little they have to make their life slightly more entertaining.

Seriously your mindset is what is wrong with this country.
 
How did you read this and come to the conclusion that it would be a way for the UK to stay in the single market ?
 
hodgy100 said:
what kind of person do you think you are that you can pass judgement like you are. This was over 2 years ago so perhaps his situation has changed perhaps videogames are his only fucking entertainment. are people on the breadline like this have to sit there in silence staring at a wall because god forbid they save what little they have to make their life slightly more entertaining.

you are what is wrong with people in this country.
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Doesn't matter where it is, people want to see the poor, disadvantaged and disabled suffer. Can't be a good citizen and maybe splurge yourself every once and a while, nope, you gotta grind their face into the dirt and make them a pariah.
 
Royal_Phalanx said:
The UK definitely has moved into full immigrant hate mode. Had a Chinese classmate who tried to get a work visa recently and he failed despite his top grades in a STEM subject because his job wasn't on the shortage list and companies don't like sponsoring people to begin with. And they're talking about making people earn over £30,000 to get a visa now. Ironically the only way to get people to fill the job vacancies in that case is to keep free movement.
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Unfortunately we are systematically turning away ideal applicants from outside the EU as the government tries to get to grips with EU migration.

Even with the high visa requirements none EU migration is very high. Unfortunately your friend is competing for places and a time of exceedingly high demand.

"Immigration hate?" I wouldn't say that, our immigration rates are through the roof and getting higher. It's a problem that needs solving and no one knows how to do it or has the legal capability to do so.

I see a potentially easy fix. Remove In work subsidies for a certain period of time for new arrivals but keep free movement of people.
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Physical exercise has been proven to have health benefits for people with your condition. Don't pay the avoid mentioning what issues you have until you can pull that card to make someone look like the bad guy. It was telegraphed several posts ago.
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How big of a hole are you trying to dig for yourself?
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Physical exercise has been proven to have health benefits for people with your condition. Don't pay the avoid mentioning what issues you have until you can pull that card to make someone look like the bad guy. It was telegraphed several posts ago.
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Damn you sound like a nice guy... I actually work out a lot but thanks for suggesting that as well. My anxiety etc is due to me being abused by my grandad as a kid. But carry on having no empathy
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Physical exercise has been proven to have health benefits for people with your condition. Don't pay the avoid mentioning what issues you have until you can pull that card to make someone look like the bad guy. It was telegraphed several posts ago.
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what are you trying to prove?

Why are you passing judgement on what his life is consisting of?
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Physical exercise has been proven to have health benefits for people with your condition. Don't pay the avoid mentioning what issues you have until you can pull that card to make someone look like the bad guy. It was telegraphed several posts ago.
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do you know his condition? i suspect not so stop judging.
 
dreamcastmaster said:
Nope guys. If he's playing the I can't afford to live on this pittance and has I assume a PC to play games on for free that's a contradiction. No need to shoot the messenger.
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Again, this was two years ago. You just assume OP is gaming the system without knowing anything about the situation, he could have been working, hell he could have been a damn 16 year old kid with christmas money

You are a piece of work.
 
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