Support NeoGAF

[AcademicSaucer]

Ministers reportedly stepped up passport bans amid fears that militants will seek to return from Syria after collapse of Isis

Quoting official figures and security sources, the paper said more than 40 suspects have had their right to a passport removed this year, with about 30 targeted since March.

It added those who have had their citizenship removed include gunmen and “jihadi brides” who have travelled to Syria.

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, as ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would lead a suspect stateless.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship

 

[iPaul93]

Good.

 

[NexusCell]

I'm okay with this.

 

[Xando]

I thought the EU stops britain from doing this

 

[ponpo]

Absolutely halal.

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, as ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would lead a suspect stateless.

Even if they have already left to Syria? Pfft.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, as ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would lead a suspect stateless.

This is the important part.

What do we do with those who aren't dual nationals?

 

[Matt]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

 

[Trojita]

Took long enough. People were acting like they couldn't do this.

 

[Anticol]

Great news.

 

[Atolm]

What happens when you become stateless? I guess you can't be an illegal immigrant anymore...?

 

[Volimar]

Is there any kind of due process for this? Surely they're not just doing this any dual citizens that went to Syria.


I mean it is a small number so they have to have evidence of wrongdoing, right?

 

[Kinyou]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

You don't have an inherent right to dual citizenship. I don't see any wrong with this. These people made their choice.

 

[lupinko]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

I agree with this sentiment, just prosecute them if they should ever return.

 

[kruis]

What happens when you become stateless? I guess you can't be an illegal immigrant anymore...?

It happens only to jihadis with more than one passport.

BTW I think this is excellent news. More countries should follow this example to stop these madmen from returning to Europe.

Is there any kind of due process for this? Surely they're not just doing this any dual citizens that went to Syria.

I mean it is a small number so they have to have evidence of wrongdoing, right?

You can be sure the secret service keeps tabs on radicalized muslims and makes note of anyone from that group who travels to Syria, Iraq or Libya.

 

[Syder]

and, yes, you can blame human rights again

Fucking human rights, eh? What are they good for? What have they ever done for us!?

 

[Coen]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I feel it's a deplorable tactic. These people are our problem, they should be trialed, sentenced and handled accordingly. Denying them entrance doesn't solve a thing. We're just exporting our problem cases to countries that are less equipped to deal with them. Today's denied returning Jihadi are tomorrow's human traffickers.

 

[jakonovski]

Kinda reinforces the idea of nationality being dependent on one's ethnicity.

 

[kruis]

Kinda reinforces the idea of nationality being dependent on one's ethnicity.

Nonsense. We're talking about people who went to join ISIS knowing full well what atrocities they committed. That's joining a foreign, hostile army and that was enough to strip anyone off their passport in the past.

 

[Sec0nd]

I don't know if there is any basis for this. But you can also think of it like another 150 people with some form of terrorist thoughts/experience/knowledge/whatever that now have found a new enemy in the UK.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Kinda reinforces the idea of nationality being dependent on one's ethnicity.

Not really, it clearly states they are dual nationals and they can't revoke citizenship from those who aren't.

This won't apply to anyone who is born in the UK and only holds a British passport.

 

[Jezbollah]

If you're not born in the UK, you don't have UK nationality. If you go through ILR and then claim nationality, you pledge an allegiance that you'll promise to respect the rights, freedoms and laws of the UK.

If you break that allegiance, you stand to face the possibility of having that nationality revoked.

I can see a few that may be against it, but it's something that will be popular and serve as a deterrent to those thinking of acting in a criminal way.

I don't know if there is any basis for this. But you can also think of it like another 150 people with some form of terrorist thoughts/experience/knowledge/whatever that now have found a new enemy in the UK.

You do realise that there is a whole legal review process that happens before such measures take place to determine if such actions are legal?

 

[Skinpop]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I feel it's a deplorable tactic. These people are our problem, they should be trialed, sentenced and handled accordingly. Denying them entrance doesn't solve a thing. We're just exporting our problem cases to countries that are less equipped to deal with them. Today's denied returning Jihadi are tomorrow's human traffickers.

they were "exported" here first though if that's the line of reasoning you want to use.

 

[alexthekid]

Jihasdists that grew up and became radicals in Europe should be Europe's problem. Kurds and other minorities have enough crazies to deal with as it is.

 

[Syder]

If it can be proven that someone willingly joined an overseas terrorist organisation I'd be completely fine with them being made stateless even if they don't have dual citizenship.

 

[harriet the spy]

It's not that uncommon for countries to revoke citizenship of dual nationals FYI - with no reason other than that they don't recognize dual citizens (eg if you get another citizenship you lose your indian one Afaik). What's a bit weird here is that it's not clear the other country is cool with inheriting that formerly dual national.

 

[jakonovski]

Nonsense. We're talking about people who went to join ISIS knowing full well what atrocities they committed. That's joining a foreign, hostile army and that was enough to strip anyone off their passport in the past.

It says the suspects "include those" who have done that. It also says not all suspects can be prosecuted. The implication being, you can't prove all of them guilty.

I have a sneaking suspicion that wouldn't fly on white dual citizens with traditional British names.

 

[Alx]

Not really, it clearly states they are dual nationals and they can't revoke citizenship from those who aren't.

This won't apply to anyone who is born in the UK and only holds a British passport.

It does imply that dual nationals aren't "as British" as regular British citizens though, since they don't have the same rights. Like tier 2 citizens.

 

[Meadows]

When you apply for citizenship (if British is your second citizenship) then you are warned extensively in the process that the Home Secretary has the right to take away your British citizenship.

This is at their discretion, I don't think you even technically have to have committed a crime to be subjected to this. However, in practice the only people that get this done are hate preachers and terrorist suspects, normally a very small number (less than 100 per year).

 

[jufonuk]

Thanks Brexit? or UK just said fuck it and done this, so need to Brexit??

my worry now what if this punishment is given out for other "crimes"

will this be abused? this is my worry.

 

[MUnited83]

Took long enough. People were acting like they couldn't do this.

And they can't, in cases where someone doesn't have dual nationality.

 

[Xando]

Thanks Brexit? or UK just said fuck it and done this, so need to Brexit??

my worry now what if this punishment is given out for other "crimes"

will this be abused? this is my worry.

What does this have to do with Brexit?

Germany has been doing this for some time now

 

[daviyoung]

It does imply that dual nationals aren't "as British" as regular British citizens though, since they don't have the same rights. Like tier 2 citizens.

Birthright citizenship trumps all.

 

[Khaz]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

My opinion as well. Dual-citizens shouldn't punished more than single-citizens, simply because they are guilty of having another passport.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

It does imply that dual nationals aren't "as British" as regular British citizens though, since they don't have the same rights. Like tier 2 citizens.

I feel like that's the unspoken rule for all dual nationals no matter where they might be.

Countries are happy to accept them and any benefits they might bring, but they are pretty much only really tolerated and if they break any laws, they are going to suffer worse than someone who was born in said country and doesn't hold dual nationality.

It's shitty and shouldn't really be that way, but that's how I've always felt it is.

 

[GHG]

And they can't, in cases where someone doesn't have dual nationality.

They can't yet.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

They can't yet.

They'd have to change the Asylum Act to be able to do this...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/41/contents

 

[Jezbollah]

My opinion as well. Dual-citizens shouldn't punished more than single-citizens, simply because they are guilty of having another passport.

Would you rather they be deterred from committing the crime in the first place?

If so, that's how the system currently works.

 

[DrSlek]

This is the important part.

What do we do with those who aren't dual nationals?

Lock them up as they return?

 

[Nevasleep]

If British is their second nationality, sure remove it (Those are the risks when you claim it). However if they are British from birth, then I believe it is Britain's duty to deal with them, and I doubt any other country would accept it.

 

[Alx]

I feel like that's the unspoken rule for all dual nationals no matter where they might be.

Countries are happy to accept them and any benefits they might bring, but they are pretty much only really tolerated and if they break any laws, they are going to suffer worse than someone who was born in said country and doesn't hold dual nationality.

It's shitty and shouldn't really be that way, but that's how I've always felt it is.

Dual citizenship isn't some half-granted status and aren't limited to people who weren't born there. I was born in France and for some time I had French-German dual citizenship (because of my mother's origin... obviously that was before EU). It didn't make me less of a French citizen.

 

[Khaz]

I feel like that's the unspoken rule for all dual nationals no matter where they might be.

Countries are happy to accept them and any benefits they might bring, but they are pretty much only really tolerated and if they break any laws, they are going to suffer worse than someone who was born in said country and doesn't hold dual nationality.

It's shitty and shouldn't really be that way, but that's how I've always felt it is.

In that case they are treated worse than a foreigner who was given the nationality and revoked their original nationality (for whatever reason, like the original country not recognising multiple-citizenships).

It's like dual-citizens are forever considered as potential traitors. Even though single-citizen traitors are much more numerous. Nationalism was a mistake.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I do not like this for different reasons, mostly because it's off loading these people, but there is no right to dual citizenship.

 

[Khaz]

Would you rather they be deterred from committing the crime in the first place?

If so, that's how the system currently works.

I would rather have all citizens be equal before the law. That concept doesn't go against crime deterrence.

 

[Dadasch]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

I agree.
By revoking citizenship you essentially dispose yourself of this burden/this problem that was created in your country.
That's borderline criminal.

Prosecute them, throw them in jail, do whatever you can to stop these people from doing any harm, but that is just wrong.

 

[kruis]

I feel like that's the unspoken rule for all dual nationals no matter where they might be.

Countries are happy to accept them and any benefits they might bring, but they are pretty much only really tolerated and if they break any laws, they are going to suffer worse than someone who was born in said country and doesn't hold dual nationality.

It's shitty and shouldn't really be that way, but that's how I've always felt it is.

Second tier citizens? Have you any idea how extraordinary the circumstances must be before someone loses his passport? In the Netherlands that can only happen when someone commits a terrorist act or joins a foreign hostile army (like ISIS). And even with those laws in place a judge will have to approve that decision.

 

[MUnited83]

They can't yet.

That would be quite ridiculous.

 

[Mailbox]

Not a fan of countries being able to revoke citizenships.
Mostly because it feels like they are just sweeping the problem under the rug and saying "yeah not ours" and being done with it.

I would like to know if the same would be done to right-wing home-grown terrorists or if this is a double standard.

Also, the fact that an even more big brother, fascistic government in the future could use this as precedent for the removal of normal citizens under the veil of "terrorist" or "unwanted" is scary as shit to me ._.

 

[LinkAndEpona]

Good, don't let them back in.

 

[Jumeira]

If British is their second nationality, sure remove it (Those are the risks when you claim it). However if they are British from birth, then I believe it is Britain's duty to deal with them, and I doubt any other country would accept it.

Agreed. This is concerning if it means people who are British by birth and as a child thier parents process them with a passport from thier ancestral home, which they have no control over undermines thier rights, as in they aren't equal to others over papers they didn't sign for, and the general concept of dual nationals status being different to British only. They, at anytime can have thier status removed and are on constant watch for good behavior.

If it applys to British citizenship as a second passport then I wouldn't have any issue.

 

[djkimothy]

I find the idea of a government being able to revoke citizenship incredibly disturbing.

If these people have broken laws, by all means prosecute them.

This. There are frameworks in place to deal with such matters. You may as well throw the constitution out the door if this is the behavior of government.