How about.... every single successful political leader in human history?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
- Start date
- Status
How about.... every single successful political leader in human history?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
He has no strategy, no plan, no objectives. He preaches to the same choir with the same song, week in, week out. He has no instinct for when to be quiet (talking about shoot to kill during the horrors of Paris) and gets massively bogged down in minor arguments.
The most prominent politician in the world, Barack Obama, in fact campaigned and won two elections on an idealistic message.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
This isn't a university debate. You play the game however you need to.
If you have to show a willingless to follow a current government policy, until you are in a position to show the populace that actually it's a stupid idea, then so be it.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Corbyn's legitmacy has completely gone he can't continue to any effctiveness at all, any points he makes in parliament will be undermined by the fact he can't even lead 20% of his own party anyone in parliament can tear him to pieces and longer he continues this the more of a laughing stock he'll become. The gig is up, he should end this swiftly while he stil can
Okay, so when the PLP vote to cut benefits, is that part of the deception too? Is it like some long-term con where you just pretend to not care about erasing your party's greatest achievements until you get into power and then reveal that you were actually a social democrat all along?
I apologize, didn't know it's was only that. Obviously 172 rich career politicians are way more than the 250 thousand people who voted.
I wish some politician's spoke up about shoot to kill after the London bombings, Jean Charles de Menezes might still be alive if they did.
The minor arguments are created by the media (didn't bow his head enough) not him
Massingberd
Member
Really? It's now come to shitty conspiracy theories posted on Facebook? Christ almighty. Nothing but Bernie Sanders, fucking Dear Leader hero worship. Based on failed, dead policies from the 70s and 80s. Unable to create and more importantly build a grassroots party (even something that cunt Farage managed to do) so willingly seeks to drag a centre-left party down, all so they can be shouting at clouds.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Dude has just lost a vote of confidence 172-40. This is his own party he's supposed to lead regardless of what you think of them. You'd have to try very hard to show less leadership than he has.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
No. He won his first campaign simplifying his message to two words.
He was also the most compromising politicians in recent memory. It was never about an idological message, it was about getting shit done.
His second campaign was won on the back that his opponent was still not up to that challenge.
Besides, Barack Obama has more charmisa in a late night eggy fart than Corybn has had in his entire career.
Rich career politicians? Is this a fucking joke? Do you have any concept about who or what you are talking about in the slightest?
He compromised once he was in power. I thought that's precisely when you reveal the con?
Also, we hate soundbites but you admit that Obama reduced his campaign to two words, and you think you have to pretend to support what your opponent is doing, and I don't recall Obama doing that in his campaign(s).
jamesmccloud
Member
That is a valid question.
If anything, Labour needs a clear that stands in opposition to the austerity that Tories (and UKIP) unabashedly represent. Opposing austerity and supporting heathy public services is actually a quite valid fiscal policy, and one which has and will have even more so popular support in the years to come.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
When the alternative is irrelevancy, you have to make hard choices. I don't know how this isn't clear to you.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
It isn't his opinions about shoot to kill that matter, just the timing. He believes what he believes and says it regardless of context.
He was victim to some slurs and smears. Of that there is no doubt. But every political leader has to face the media. That is the reality. He can't operate in a modern political media landscape.
Massingberd
Member
Who the fuck voted for the 172 then? Quite frankly, fuck those members. The general electorate matters far more.
It's simply mind-boggling to me that you believe the alternative to supporting the Tories dismantling the welfare state is irrelevancy.
Or perhaps I should have an even lower opinion of politics in this country than I already do, which is very low indeed.
So we let the media decide who we should like?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Obama's entire first campaign was about bi-partianship. If you didn't think he wasn't going to compromise in power you werent paying attention. For gods sake he put his most vocal opponents in the primaries in the VP and SOS positions.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
No but image management is a vital part of modern politics. It allows you to avoid all distractions and focus on the message. Corbyn's lack of charisma and refusal to abide by modern image standards gets him bogged down in silly discussions over how he is dressed and so forth rather than policy.
So we should only like people who dress in a good suit? Gotcha
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Corbyn is no Obama on well any level, and their positions are very different to begin with, Obama was a relatively small name senator before he started his presidential campaign with the well known "Change" Slogan, Corby is the leader of the opposition and has been so far a while, and may even be so for another 4 years before an election is called. The majority of the British public have already made up their mind on Corbyn and it isn't all that positive judging by polls (as dodgy as they are), same was not of Barrack Obama. If you placed Obama as the leader of the opposition for a few years answering all these questions to various events at parliament do you think his change message would have work as well? He'd be an old face at that point and a known quantity.
Some of Obama's tentpole policies in 2008 (universal healthcare, withdrawal of troops from Iraq) couldn't have been less bi-partisan.
Yes, and it's a shame that Corbyn didn't have that option, since all of his opponents announced that they would refuse to be in his cabinet before the vote even took place.
Is Corbyn's leadership opponents refusal to work with him also his fault? Since we're blaming the EU referendum on him, I don't think it's too much of a stretch
You don't seem to be getting the point that's being made.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
No politician can boss the bond markets.
I am talking about the Labour party, the neoliberal abomination that pretends to be left just like most socialist/labour parties in Europe. They're all the same shit really, using leftist rhetoric while passing neoliberal legislation or forcing other weaker nations within the EU to pass neoliberal legislation.
Massingberd
Member
Absolute insanity. I never thought in my life I'd get so angry politically. Purity overrules all. Compromise and youre a traitor. Be a pragmatist and youre a traitor, and a Tory traitor at that. The lunatics are about to run the asylum.
he's terrible, he already quit once
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Your opinion doesn't matter. Especially when you are coming from such an idealistic point of reference.
Serious question. Do you honestly think a labour party in power, would continue the Tories program of Austerity and cuts to the welfare state?
Do you feel they would be starving the NHS of funds and what little money they do give, going to private companies?
Do you think they would be looking to do with the human rights act/workers rights, including the right to fight unfair dismissal?
Do you think they would be tabling the snoopers charter?
Do you think they would allow the proliferation of zero hour contracts?
Do you think they would be working to sell off all social housing?
Do you think they would cut all programs to the homeless and the working poor?
And if you do, based on what?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Their MP's voted by the British public to represent them, bating out all over opposition.It doesn't matter if their rich career politicians, they are the respectitives of the labours voting public with the continuecies they won. They are important, they are not unelectected party officials.
I do believe that the Labour party in power would be committed to austerity, yes; because they've said as much, and voted as much when they had the opportunity to. And since the PLP lacks the will to actually change peoples' minds about whether austerity is a good thing, I'm not sure they would (or could) actually do anything else.
Do I think they would be literally as bad as the Tories? No.
But I simply refuse to believe that there's no middle ground for the Labour party between 'Corbyn' and 'voting to cut welfare'.
By the way, I'm still waiting for absolutely anybody to give me an idea of what New New Labour would look like besides 'they have to have a good leader and will also have to lie a lot'.
Tony Blair.
Do I think Labour would table the snooper's charter? And I'm supposed to be the one with a poor grip of political facts?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The guy who hasn't been in power for nearly 10 years. Great.
And where is this revisionist history coming from where Blairs polices hurt the welfare state, housing and workers rights?
Massingberd
Member
In the next general election, possibly before the end if the year, what is the best, realistic option we can have? I'll Take anything to the left of a Tory party which will undoubtedly move to the right with their new leader. We've just had the most right sided election result in recent history. How the fuck does Corbyn expect to being over a shit ton of voters in that short amount if time, with those same voters knowing his own party doesn't have faith in him. He cant. Its impossible. He either is totally deluded or doesn't care. Even the fucking Tories knew in 2010 they had to move closer to the centre to get into power, then they gradually moved more the right to where we stand now.
His idealistic message was bi-partisanship, coming together, transforming the culture of Washington, and getting shit done. That's certainly and idealistic message and did not pan out at all, but the message is a whole hell of a lot different than an ideologue who demands things be done his/her way and refuses to compromise because he/she knows he/she is right.
One is an idealistic pragmatism about people finding common ground, compromising and coming together while the other is fuck you, I'm right, do it my way.
Those rich career politicians were also voted in by 'the people', some perhaps even getting more votes than Corbyn. What makes Corbyn a person who was chosen by the people and not these other 172 politicians?
I agree. The PLP should take notes.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Amazing.
I've come to conclusion that Corbyn is a first rate tosser and no amount of intelligent persuasion is going to convince him to leave.
They are going to have to boot him out.
BlastProcessing
Member
The speech that put Obama on the map was his "More perfect union" speech at the 2004 DNC. The core of his message was that, while political leaders had polarized, the majority of the country could still get together and compromise. That was always teh core of his message, from the very beginning. Healthcare and Iraq are actually good examples of things that most of the country was ready to compromise on.
I'm just an outsider spectating, but for me it's not about whether or not it's Corbyn's or anyone else's fault. Fault does not enter into it. His ability to be a strong leader is irrevocably broken. It feels like he picked the wrong time to play politics and it blew up in his face.
The only strong leadership I see in the UK at all right now is coming from Sturgeon. She is the only one who seems to clearly understand the situation and her options and she is the only one who seems to have any unified support.
A man who quit the last leadership election (after 3 days) because of press scrutiny.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Well sorry, when the people close to me are hurting because of tory policies, im seeing homeless people on every fucking Street corner, my future has been thrown in a fucking blender on the basis of a Etonian dick waving contest and an entire country is screaming for clear political, not idological leadership, that is enough.
Corbyn needs to fuck off and take half the party that can't see practicalities with him if need be. Go be a protest party on the backbenches. Let the people who actually want to get shit done room to do so.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
He didn't do great.
Not building houses is not the same as turfing people out the ones they have, sorry.
Until he comes clean about his sexual history and past he never has a chance - and he's probably left it too late with how heavy handed he was with his wife and the press last time around.
His legacy lives on in the party. They want to replicate his success.
New Labour pretty much introduced the blueprint for the current welfare state. The more controversial policies that people put the blame on the Tories were actually introduced by New Labour. Medical assessments for disabled people being the obvious one.
New Labour did not invest in social, affordable housing whilst they were in. Blair is responsible for the current housing crisis by almost completely avoiding social housing throughout his whole 10 years.
Workers rights? Honestly can't comment on it.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked