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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin

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H

Hazzuh

Member
Absolutely ridiculous seeing the people in this thread defending the entryists as "true Labour" and the people who have been Labour party members their entire lives as frauds and liars. Wanting to undermine parliamentary democracy the way the Bennites and Militant wanted to isn't the aim of the Labour party and never was.
Quixzlizx said:
Am I being deceived by the lamestream media, or is Seumas Milne like some sort of communist Wyrmtongue?

He even has the "Anyone who opposes the West for any reason is a good guy" box checked.
Click to expand...

He thinks that the Stalinist purges and Holodomor was worth it because the USSR got a decent rail network.
 
S

spunodi

Member
With Tom Watson not standing, are we expecting Angela Eagle to soar?
like an eagle

Also, what became of SNP Commons dude Angus about his request to be recognised as Leader of the Opposition? I haven't seen an update on this in the rolling coverage and that seemed very interesting to me.
 
P

Pandy

Member
spunodi said:
With Tom Watson not standing, are we expecting Angela Eagle to soar?
like an eagle

Also, what became of SNP Commons dude Angus about his request to be recognised as Leader of the Opposition? I haven't seen an update on this in the rolling coverage and that seemed very interesting to me.
Click to expand...

The SNP request was given proper consideration (apparently genuinely) but not approved. It was a bit of a cheeky move, to be fair.

Also,
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...z7wn/TimesResults_160627_LabourLeadership.pdf

Eagle polling at 1% of Labour voters.

Also, unsourced story doing the rounds on my Facebook about Eagle and Benn conspiring with BBC journalist Laura Kuenssberg to unseat Corbyn for as long as he's been in post.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Pandy said:
The SNP request was given proper consideration (apparently genuinely) but not approved. It was a bit of a cheeky move, to be fair.

Also,
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...z7wn/TimesResults_160627_LabourLeadership.pdf

Eagle polling at 1% of Labour voters.

Also, unsourced story doing the rounds on my Facebook about Eagle and Benn conspiring with BBC journalist Laura Kuenssberg to unseat Corbyn for as long as he's been in post.
Click to expand...

It'll be bollocks, probably. Kuennsberg isn't my favourite political journalist (wasn't fond of her on newsnight) but the idea she's been part of any conspiracy is bollocks at best.
 
B

Baybars

Banned
If 80 percent of colleagues didnt have confidence in me at work i would quit just to spare my dignity. How is this useless tool still here?
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Why are there all these bizarre conspiracy theories about Laura Kuenssberg? I follow her on twitter and the amount of vitriol she gets is bizarre even when she just reports basic facts.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Hazzuh said:
Why are there all these bizarre conspiracy theories about Laura Kuenssberg? I follow her on twitter and the amount of vitriol she gets is bizarre even when she just reports basic facts.
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She's a woman, therefore the morons take extra offense when she questions Corbyn.

Baybars said:
If 80 percent of colleagues didnt have confidence in me at work i would quit just to spare my dignity. How is this useless tool still here?
Click to expand...

It's clear now that the people behind Corbyn are pushing him to use his position as Labour leader to start some kind of social uprising rather than focus on parliamentary politics and a credible alternative government. He doesn't care what the PLP think because he doesn't feel like he needs them. He only needs his echo chamber of soft-headed socialists to carry out his noble mission. He doesn't give a shit if the party gets destroyed.
 
D

Diablo Rosso

Member
Hazzuh said:
Why are there all these bizarre conspiracy theories about Laura Kuenssberg? I follow her on twitter and the amount of vitriol she gets is bizarre even when she just reports basic facts.
Click to expand...
I think it's because she's never once brought up the Tory election fraud investigation yet at every opportunity has a dig at Corbyn. She's a proper Tory.
 
S

spunodi

Member
Pandy said:
The SNP request was given proper consideration (apparently genuinely) but not approved. It was a bit of a cheeky move, to be fair.

Also,
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...z7wn/TimesResults_160627_LabourLeadership.pdf

Eagle polling at 1% of Labour voters.

Also, unsourced story doing the rounds on my Facebook about Eagle and Benn conspiring with BBC journalist Laura Kuenssberg to unseat Corbyn for as long as he's been in post.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. It was a cheeky move but from knowing very little about them some years ago, I'm really liking them as a charismatic political force (if not necessarily quite as good as the hype).

Kuenssberg being part of the coup wouldn't surprise me; the BBC approach to Corbyn's leadership has helped set the stage for this. I don't think it holds weight (oh imagine the bombshell if something leaked and it was true) but the obvious editorial slant, aided and abetted by people like The Guardian too in my opinion, could lead people to that suggestion.

Interesting that Hilary Benn seems to be the most preferred alternative (though still polling low seemingly).
 
R

Real Hero

Member
Hazzuh said:
Why are there all these bizarre conspiracy theories about Laura Kuenssberg? I follow her on twitter and the amount of vitriol she gets is bizarre even when she just reports basic facts.
Click to expand...

I think she is shit but I'm guessing a lot of abuse she gets is because she is a women plus a tory
 
C

Condom

Member
Baybars said:
If 80 percent of colleagues didnt have confidence in me at work i would quit just to spare my dignity. How is this useless tool still here?
Click to expand...

Because the members want him to stay?

I wonder if the new Champagne Socialists party that PLP members will set up will have any party democracy or allow any members. I mean, what if they want to select a popular fascist as leader to win the elections and those pesky members keep voting for a centrist.
 
P

Pandy

Member
JonathanEx said:
It'll be bollocks, probably. Kuennsberg isn't my favourite political journalist (wasn't fond of her on newsnight) but the idea she's been part of any conspiracy is bollocks at best.
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As I said, unsourced. On the link my Facebook friends are sharing goes as far back as https://www.facebook.com/LeftUnityWigan/

The reason I mentioned it was in connection with Eagle doing well. If Corbyn's supporters believe Eagle has been plotting against him since the beginning then she's got even less chance than she had to begin with.
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
Condom said:
Because the members want him to stay?

I wonder if the new Champagne Socialists party that PLP members will set up will have any party democracy or allow any members. I mean, what if they want to select a popular fascist as leader to win the elections and those pesky members keep voting for a centrist.
Click to expand...

I haven't been following this much, but in what universe is corbyn a centrist?
 
S

spunodi

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I haven't been following this much, but in what universe is corbyn a centrist?
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A universe where the Overton Window hasn't shifted so far to the right that austerity-based policies are the default for left and right?

Corbyn is painted all too often as this 'far-left' extremist. I really can't see it myself and think it's a narrative constructed to stifle any moves towards more of a social democratic platform.
 
P

Par Score

Member
Ushojax said:
It doesn't matter, the deranged members who support him will do so until he loses the GE, loses most of the party's seats and has to resign anyway.

Corbyn is a dead man walking, it's whether he chooses to leave with dignity or as a historic failure post-election.
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Fuck off with this shit. You're calling over half of the Labour membership "deranged". You're calling several posters in this thread "deranged".

I suppose you'd have preferred Liz Kendall, and are now inspired by the idea of Angela Eagle leading Labour? The members can only pick from what's in front of them, and Corbyn walked it.

Pandy said:
Also, unsourced story doing the rounds on my Facebook about Eagle and Benn conspiring with BBC journalist Laura Kuenssberg to unseat Corbyn for as long as he's been in post.
Click to expand...

Completely unsurprising if true. Kuenssberg has been after Corbyn from the start, a Tory attack dog in BBC clothing.
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
spunodi said:
A universe where the Overton Window hasn't shifted so far to the right that austerity-based policies are the default for left and right?

Corbyn is painted all too often as this 'far-left' extremist. I really can't see it myself and think it's a narrative constructed to stifle any moves towards more of a social democratic platform.
Click to expand...

Sorry, you lost me at "not interested in creating an alternative government, we want a social uprising".

That's real fucking left wing to me.
 
S

spunodi

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Sorry, you lost me at "not interested in creating an alternative government, we want a social uprising".

That's real fucking left wing to me.
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Who is that quote attributed to? I know that's a big sentiment in the groundswell support.

Though still, austerity as default doesn't really differentiate very much between the two parties and pre-Corbyn that was the prevailing wind. Who can forget Harriet Harman's time when she said not to oppose the benefits bill because the Tories had a mandate?
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
spunodi said:
Who is that quote attributed to? I know that's a big sentiment in the groundswell support.

Though still, austerity as default doesn't really differentiate very much between the two parties and pre-Corbyn that was the prevailing wind. Who can forget Harriet Harman's time when she said not to oppose the benefits bill because the Tories had a mandate?
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Let me ask you a simple question. How does Corbyn prevent or reverse further Austerity from the sidelines, infighting with his party?

Or even worse as minority party as most of PLP splits away?
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Exactly the same cult of personality Bernie Sanders has. These people are actually bonkers.

But I just don't understand why they need the labour party? Why not make corybn the head of momentum and work from there?
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Keep Corbyn, lose the PLP. Kick Corbyn, lose half the Labour Party membership.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Let me ask you a simple question. How does Corbyn prevent or reverse further Austerity from the sidelines, infighting with his party?

Or even worse as minority party as most of PLP splits away?
Click to expand...

How does the Labour party without Corbyn fight austerity when they've already committed to it as an economic policy?
 
J

jakonovski

Member
The problem is that just about every party in Europe is either populist or offering the politics of no choice. No choice but austerity, no choice but to keep going the same as before.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Par Score said:
Fuck off with this shit. You're calling over half of the Labour membership "deranged". You're calling several posters in this thread "deranged".

I suppose you'd have preferred Liz Kendall, and are now inspired by the idea of Angela Eagle leading Labour? The members can only pick from what's in front of them, and Corbyn walked it.
Click to expand...

Yeah I am calling them deranged, the writing is on the wall. The party cannot pull in one direction under Corbyn's leadership. Anyone would be better than him, I don't have a preference. The problem is not just Corbyn but the people he has surrounded himself with, they do not care about the party's role as an alternative government, they do not care about anything other than their extreme left ideals.

Corbyn and his apparatchiks are espousing a type of politics that would have been outdated 20 years ago, there is no future for the party with him and his cronies at the helm. Social justice and ending inequality are noble aims but if you aren't in government you can't do anything about them. A bunch of bearded old Stalinists and green-haired students are not going to be able to seriously challenge the Tory party in an election.
 
M

Moze

Banned
I don't see how some of you think it is crazy to support a man who speaks up for what many people want? Why do you want people to accept something they do not want? Corbyn supporters are not crazy communists. They are not crazy for supporting the man who brought the anti austerity movement to the forefront of UK politics during a time when people are literally dying due to welfare cuts. You are crazy for thinking these people should accept a Tory-lite Labour party when it has failed to work in the past two elections. It's not an option for some people. Stop acting like it is an option.

Corbyn was elected. I do think it is going to be very hard for him to stay, though. That doesn't mean it is his fault. It means the party completely failed him.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I still haven't been given an idea of what New New Labour could look like. Corbyn resigns, cool. We get a new leader. What tangible policies should they offer that will actually appeal to people in a way that makes them electable a) to the Labour Party membership, who clearly do not want another Tory-lite Labour and b) to the electorate, who cleary do want another Tory-lite Labour party.

Furthermore, so, you say, 'well the Labour Party membership don't actually need to elect him in a General Election so what they want doesn't matter'. That's fine, but I'd still like to know what you think the new leader's platform should be.
 
S

spunodi

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Let me ask you a simple question. How does Corbyn prevent or reverse further Austerity from the sidelines, infighting with his party?

Or even worse as minority party as most of PLP splits away?
Click to expand...

He doesn't, which is the great tragedy of it. The PLP are in contrast to their members and have been sniping for the last year rather than uniting behind him.

So is there an alternative? The names cropping up currently aren't filling me with hope that Labour can provide an alternative and that's what people are crying out desperately for hence the vociferousness of the Corbyn support from the membership.

Ideally, a candidate with Corbyn's principles but with better media management and party discipline should be offered. But the choice seems lamentably mutually exclusive.

To address a point mentioned above, why the Labour Party and not another organisation? The answer to that is First Past the Post I reckon and the upholding of traditional rather than 'New' Labour values.
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
Alan Johnson's letter on this.
CmJJ2L2XIAAe6kB.jpg
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...go-to-police-over-death-threats-after-refusa/

Labour MPs have been forced to call in the police over death threats in the last 48 hours after they refused to back Jeremy Corbyn, The Telegraph has learnt.

Vicky Faircroft, a Labour whip, received a call to her constituency office which said: “If she doesn’t support Corbyn I will come down to the office and kick the f*** out of you.”

Police officers had to rush her office, close the shutters and attempt to trace the call after the man said he was on his way and hung up.

Another MP who resigned over Mr Corbyn’s leadership has received an email naming their child and threatening to kill them. Police have been passed the message and are now investigating.

Lucy Powell, the former shadow education secretary, received a message telling her to kill herself after announcing she would leave the frontbench over frustrations with the leadership.
Click to expand...
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
godelsmetric said:
Keep Corbyn, lose the PLP. Kick Corbyn, lose half the Labour Party membership.



How does the Labour party without Corbyn fight austerity when they've already committed to it as an economic policy?
Click to expand...

From my vantage point, without PLP, corbyn is just another protest politician without a shred of credibility.

And how much of this party membership are so idologicaly blind that they would prefer a lame duck that can't do a damn thing over a lame duck that has a few feathers they don't like the color of?

As for your second question, like any sensible political party would. Get into power first, then slowly dial it down.

It's like people have forgotten politics is a game of compromise until you are in a position of strength.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
As for your second question, like any sensible political party would. Get into power first, then slowly dial it down.
Click to expand...

So by lying to the electorate rather than actually challenging anything in the arena of discourse?

It would have to be quite a long and drawn out lie too. If they realise too soon that they accidentally voted in socialists they'll be out at the next General Election.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Goodlife said:
When you say hasn't shown any leadership, what you mean Is hasn't made any bullshit sound bites for the media, yeah?
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All he does is make sound bites! Really bad ones!

He has no policies. He has no vision. He mouths slogans without any idea on how to deliver them or how into power to do anything.

He is the ultimate protest candidate, and at a time when the country needs a strong labour leader,who can make the argument for europe and take us back from this abyss we have Jeremy fucking Corbyn.
 
C

Condom

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
It's like people have forgotten politics is a game of compromise until you are in a position of strength.
Click to expand...

Can you show me a case where that actually happened?

Maledict said:
He is the ultimate protest candidate, and at a time when the country needs a strong labour leader,who can make the argument for europe and take us back from this abyss we have Jeremy fucking Corbyn.
Click to expand...
So you want somebody pro-EU but not critical of the EU? Corbyn's argument for Europe is in line with many other progressive movements in the EU.
 
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