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[Maledict]

I am actually most interested in the part of this article which claims that Corbyn remaining is just horribly contrary to British social norms, according to which somebody who is this visibly detested by his party should really just leave on his own to avoid any further awkwardness.

Not being British I don't have any real insight into whether people think this has any validity. From a perspective of constitutional norms though it's pretty clear that the PLP is sending every available message it has to say that Corbyn should quit. Even if he stays, I'm not really sure how he intends to do the work of a political party when he doesn't have any politicians to do it.

I am genuinely surprised that the conversation here is still focused on reclaiming Labour and not on transitioning the Labour politicians to a new party. It seems like the obvious next step here.

When they wrote the rules in the 90s about votes of no confidence, they didn't make them binding because it never crossed their minds that someone who lost a vote would stay on against the wishes of the MPs. When Margaret thatcher *won* the vote of no confidence against her by 204 of the 372 votes she then dropped out as so many were against her.

the reason people talk about reclaiming Labour is that Corbyn's faction is very small. It's very active, and very loud, but the fact is the millions of labour voters who vote for the party each GE don't like him - almost a third say they won't support him at the top of the ballot. It's less that the party has moved away from the PLP, and more that a small, active group has basically taken over the party and doesn't care about the election. This has happened before to Labour in the 80s, and it's surprising how many people who were around then are still active now...

 

[JonathanEx]

I am genuinely surprised that the conversation here is still focused on reclaiming Labour and not on transitioning the Labour politicians to a new party. It seems like the obvious next step here.

I guess from their point of view - the vast majority, 80%, are against the current leadership. Why should the majority have to leave?

 

[Arnie7]

George Gallaway video on matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6NmHZoCTM

 

[Maledict]

George Gallaway video on matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6NmHZoCTM

As always, one of life's key rules - do whatever the opposite of George Galloway says.

 

[OriginalThinking]

George Gallaway video on matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6NmHZoCTM

It's really difficult to take anything "gorgeous" says seriously..

 

[Real Hero]

As always, one of life's key rules - do whatever the opposite of George Galloway says.

so go to war in iraq?

Spoiler

 

[Meadows]

George Gallaway video on matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6NmHZoCTM

There are few captions you could have put on this video to make me want to watch it less.

 

[NekoFever]

I like how the PLP should shut up because Corbyn was selected by 250,000 members, ignoring the 9.3 million people who voted for those Labour MPs.

 

[Hazzuh]

People on twitter saying Eagle will declare tomorrow at 3pm. Don't have a good feeling about this, think the party is done

 

[Real Hero]

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/748174931234529280?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

He's not going anywhere is he?

 

[Burai]

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/748174931234529280?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

He's not going anywhere is he?

No, he really isn't. The whole party is going down in flames and the only thing they'll be good for in 2020 is challenging the Greens.

We'll be back to two party politics in 2020; a more right wing Tory party and UKIP. What a world to live in.

 

[Hazzuh]

No, he really isn't. The whole party is going down in flames and the only thing they'll be good for in 2020 is challenging the Greens.

We'll be back to two party politics in 2020; a more right wing Tory party and UKIP. What a world to live in.

Still better than those pesky Blairites though am I right?!

 

[BadHand]

I like how the PLP should shut up because Corbyn was selected by 250,000 members, ignoring the 9.3 million people who voted for those Labour MPs.

Angela Eagle's own constituents are begging her not to run.

 

[Piecake]

Still better than those pesky Blairites though am I right?!

It is more important to have purity and to protest from a smug position of self-righteousness than to actually do anything substantial.

 

[Hazzuh]

It is more important to have purity and to protest from a smug position of self-righteousness than to actually do anything substantial.

The thing is, doing things leaves you open to criticism, why would anyone want that? It might even require to you have original thoughts...

 

[Arnie7]

At least Obi Wan Kenobi is supporting Corbyn.

 

[Piecake]

The thing is, doing things leaves you open to criticism, why would anyone want that? It might even require to you have original thoughts...

Exactly. Doing things would require you to compromise. And that means that you would no longer be ideologically pure and that smug self-righteousness would now also be pathetically hypocritical

 

[Coriolanus]

It is more important to have purity and to protest from a smug position of self-righteousness than to actually do anything substantial.

Fwiw that goes both ways. If he is unwilling to step down and they cant find anyone to dethrone him, then the losers, majority though they may me, must simply face the reality of the situation and build from there in order to minimize the damage. To remain openly hostile after a second defeat would (and should) be seen as no different from childen throwing a tantrum, as it would only maximize whatever damage corbs may cause.


Until they actually find someone able to defeat him, anyway.

 

[Riddick]

Shocking, a neoliberal party doesn't like the leader the people have chosen who happens not to be a corrupt scumbag handpicked by the ruling class. It's also very surprising how the systemic media have been waging a war against him. Yes, I'm very surprised by all this.

 

[Piecake]

Shocking, a neoliberal party doesn't like the leader the people have chosen who happens not to be a corrupt scumbag handpicked by the ruling class. It's also very surprising how the systemic media have been waging a war against him. Yes, I'm very surprised by all this.

250k are the people?

 

[Moosichu]

If the circumstances were different. I would be for Corbyn staying on. I even think the MP rebellion is so short-sighted and quite frankly a marvellous case of cutting of the nose to spite the face, and would have much rather they kept it together until at least article 50 is triggered.

However, now we have two stubborn sides that would rather let the party fall apart than let their side "lose", which is so so sad.

I really think Corbyn should resign, and a fresh Corbyn supporter (maybe Clive Lewis?), should stand for the leadership.

 

[Hazzuh]

Infuriating! They really are going to destroy the party!

 

[Morat]

If the circumstances were different. I would be for Corbyn staying on. I even think the MP rebellion is so short-sighted and quite frankly a marvellous case of cutting of the nose to spite the face, and would have much rather they kept it together until at least article 50 is triggered.

However, now we have two stubborn sides that would rather let the party fall apart than let their side "lose", which is so so sad.

I really think Corbyn should resign, and a fresh Corbyn supporter (maybe Clive Lewis?), should stand for the leadership.

Agreed. Both sides are behaving badly, but the reality is Corbyn needs to step down for the sake of the party - I say this as someone who voted for him.

 

[Piecake]

Fwiw that goes both ways. If he is unwilling to step down and they cant find anyone to dethrone him, then the losers, majority though they may me, must simply face the reality of the situation and build from there in order to minimize the damage. To remain openly hostile after a second defeat would (and should) be seen as no different from childen throwing a tantrum, as it would only maximize whatever damage corbs may cause.


Until they actually find someone able to defeat him, anyway.

The problem is that with Corbyn they are going to lose. Moreover, his ideas and values are what are going to be associated with labor until they at least get rid of him. His ideas and values cannot win a general election because he is well outside the majority opinion. No matter what reforms the labour party makes, they can't solve those two major issues. They are forever going to be a protest party with Corbyn, and I don't think it is surprising that many in labour do not want to see that happen. Will another leader turn it around? Who knows, but at least that person will have a better chance than Corbyn

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I used to like Corbyn but he's going to destroy what's left of the Labour Party at this rate. Ffs.

Aye, he's being so selfish. Burying his head in the sand and letting the party burn around him. Absolute idiot.

 

[Zaph]

In an ideal world there'd be room for a Corbyn party, maybe not in power, but dragging the whole conversation left and trying to do thing a bit differently.

But this is no time for ideals. We need a centrist party now to help dig us out of this massive whole we've made for ourselves. He's gotta go.

 

[Beefy]

So Labour are dead then.

 

[Hazzuh]

Just want to say to all of the people in here saying they think Corbyn should go but aren't already Labour party members, please join! The country needs an effective opposition now more than ever! It's time to stop letting total nutters decide the future of the country.

 

[ultratruman]

Angela Eagle

 

[Coriolanus]

The problem is that with Corbyn they are going to lose. Moreover, his ideas and values are what are going to be associated with labor until they at least get rid of him. His ideas and values cannot win a general election because he is well outside the majority opinion. No matter what reforms the labour party makes, they can't solve those two major issues. They are forever going to be a protest party with Corbyn, and I don't think it is surprising that many in labour do not want to see that happen. Will another leader turn it around? Who knows, but at least that person will have a better chance than Corbyn

You are speaking in certain terms. That is not the case, especially not with uncertain elections. That is likely, yes, but not definitely the case. No more concrete than that percentage of labour voters actually fucking off to some other party and ensuring conservative control with their own version of a "you must be this impure to pass" test.

You also have not detailed how open hostility after a second defeat would be a benefit to the party. I've never seen an openly fractured party perform better at the polls, after all. Quite the contrary, if labour continues to display such evident signs of fracture, that is the ideal scenario for conservatives to propose new elections.

So, again, what you say is well and good, and even fair IF he suddenly decides to step down OR they find someone to defeat him. Until one of those conditions is met, however, open defiance will favour only the tories.

Thus one, if defeated, will need to be pragmatic.

Just want to say to all of the people in here saying they think Corbyn should go but aren't already Labour party members, please join!

This is quite a healthy approach. No sarcasm.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

This turned up from one of Corbyn's Facebook groups:

Labour are finished as a mainstream party, they've been comprehensively Tea Partied by Momentum.

 

[cyberheater]

George Gallaway video on matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6NmHZoCTM

And once again he proves what an intelligent and eloquent speaker and showing he's as mad as a box of frogs.

Come on Corbyn. Fuck off.

 

[JonathanEx]

I mean him not falling to the coup is the most successful thing he's done so far, but that's because it involves him doing what he's best at, nothing

 

[Piecake]

You are speaking in certain terms. That is not the case, especially not with uncertain elections. That is likely, yes, but not definitely the case. No more concrete than that percentage of labour voters actually fucking off to some other party and ensuring conservative control with their own version of a "you must be this impure to pass" test.

You also have not detailed how open hostility after a second defeat would be a benefit to the party. I've never seen an openly fractured party perform better at the polls, after all. Quite the contrary, if labour continues to display such evident signs of fracture, that is the ideal scenario for conservatives to propose new elections.

So, again, what you say is well and good, and even fair IF he suddenly decides to step down OR they find someone to defeat him. Until one of those conditions is met, however, open defiance will favour only the tories.

Thus one, if defeated, will need to be pragmatic.

I think this would certainly be true if England only had two parties, but it doesnt. Labour isnt the only viable option for people who are in that center to mid-left spectrum.

I can't see labour winning a national election no matter how fucked the tories become considering that Corbyn seems a half a step away from being a communist.

 

[Goodlife]

Just want to say to all of the people in here saying they think Corbyn should go but aren't already Labour party members, please join! The country needs an effective opposition now more than ever! It's time to stop letting total nutters decide the future of the country.

Yeah, Angela Eagle will lead us into the light.....

Generally voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas

Consistently voted for the Iraq war

Consistently voted against an investigation into the Iraq war

 

[Trumpets]

Aye, he's being so selfish. Burying his head in the sand and letting the party burn around him. Absolute idiot.

That's just it: he genuinely is an idiot. An eloquent and likeable idiot, but clearly not up to the task of running a major political party. And that's before you even consider his far left political views, which make him unelectable anyway.

The fault here lies with the people who for voted him as party leader in the first place. What the hell were they thinking?

 

[Zaph]

Yeah, Angela Eagle will lead us into the light.....

Generally voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas

Consistently voted for the Iraq war

Consistently voted against an investigation into the Iraq war

Those are things I'm prepared to care about again after we avoid economic suicide.

 

[Goodlife]

Those are things I'm prepared to care about again after we avoid economic suicide.

She's a nobody, a lightweight nobody.

She'll make no difference if an election is held.

 

[Dougald]

That's just it: he genuinely is an idiot. An eloquent and likeable idiot, but clearly not up to the task of running a major political party. And that's before you even consider his far left political views, which make him unelectable anyway.

The fault here lies with the people who for voted him as party leader in the first place. What the hell were they thinking?

'Fuck the tories' was the mindset I think.

He is totally and utterly unelectable and I wouldn't vote for him. And I'm generally in the 'fuck the tories' camp. He acts like he just left a British Leyland picket line, rather than it being 2016

 

[D4Danger]

The fault here lies with the people who for voted him as party leader in the first place. What the hell were they thinking?

fed up of being Tory lite and getting nowhere. Corbyn at least represented a different voice. I imagine it's gone too far in the other direction for some people though and Labour risk become the Green party rather than any sort of opposition.

 

[Diablo Rosso]

If Angela Eagle is the best they can get then Corbyn will win the leadership election. She's a Blairite and that's not what they need. They need Dan Jarvis.

 

[Goodlife]

If Angela Eagle is the best they can get then Corbyn will win the leadership election. She's a Blairite and that's not what they need. .

Exactly

 

[D4Danger]

If Angela Eagle is the best they can get then Corbyn will win the leadership election. She's a Blairite and that's not what they need. They need Dan Jarvis.

Corbyn will win any new vote no matter who comes forward. The Labour members will vote out of spite if nothing else.

The only chance they have is with someone like Jarvis who isn't in the middle of all this and has some credibility.

 

[Ushojax]

Looks like the PLP is going to have to seriously consider splitting. Throwing out the communist manifesto in front of SOAS is not going to change anything.

 

[Real Hero]

Do they really not have anyone who can deliver some of corbyn's message in a more effective way? It's the only way he will lose

 

[Ushojax]

Do they really not have anyone who can deliver some of corbyn's message in a more effective way? It's the only way he will lose

It doesn't matter, the deranged members who support him will do so until he loses the GE, loses most of the party's seats and has to resign anyway.

Corbyn is a dead man walking, it's whether he chooses to leave with dignity or as a historic failure post-election.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Am I being deceived by the lamestream media, or is Seumas Milne like some sort of communist Wyrmtongue?

He even has the "Anyone who opposes the West for any reason is a good guy" box checked.

 

[Real Hero]

Am I being deceived by the lamestream media, or is Seumas Milne like some sort of communist Wyrmtongue?

He even has the "Anyone who opposes the West for any reason is a good guy" box checked.

he seems like a nutter

 

[Condom]

In an ideal world there'd be room for a Corbyn party, maybe not in power, but dragging the whole conversation left and trying to do thing a bit differently.

But this is no time for ideals. We need a centrist party now to help dig us out of this massive whole we've made for ourselves. He's gotta go.

Why don't all you neoliberals and social liberals join the Libdems then? I don't understand why the heck all these liberals get attracted to social-democratic parties, continue to piss on all the socdem ideals and then cry foul when people want to go back to what a labour party should actually stand for.

LABOUR PARTY

It's in the name. God damn it is the same as all those other socdem parties in Europe that got infiltrated by these Starbucks Liberals.

 

[Red Liquorice]

As much as I like Jezza, I can get behind Eagle too. But I fear both of them are too lefty for what people are looking for (whatever that is, I don't even know any more what people want from the left wing).

At least Obi Wan Kenobi is supporting Corbyn.

Oh Ewan <3