Support NeoGAF

[cormack12]

I think it's disgusting to expect teachers to do this where there isn't a medical condition. Bare minimum was being toilet trained when starting school and guess what, every kid was. Parents need to step up and spend less time on tiktok. It's not the police and teachers job to be your stand in for parenting. If you're not going to accept the responsibility for your kid then don't have any.



Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74x23yw71yo

Parents being called into school to change children's pull-ups and nappies is "unfair", one father has said.

Blaenau Gwent council has said teachers and school staff will no longer change pupils who have wet or soiled themselves due to "very high levels of pupils coming to school in nappies".

But one charity said it was "tantamount to abuse" to force or allow a child to sit in wet or soiled underwear until a parent or guardian can come in and change them.

About one in four children are not toilet trained when they start school in Wales and England, according to recent figures.

One union leader said they had heard anecdotes of children as old as eight not being fully toilet trained and missing lessons as a result.

Education bosses said there had been an increase in school-age children not being able to use the bathroom independently since the Covid-19 pandemic.

In a statement, Blaenau Gwent council said it should be the parent or carer's responsibility to ensure their child is toilet trained before starting school.

"The policy states that parents will be expected to go to school to change their child's nappies/pull ups," it added.

It also said the policy would not apply if there was a recognised medical need.

Grandfather Gavin Wise said the policy was "unfair".

"If the kid's in school, that's what they're there for, to be looked after.

If they employed someone else to come in and do that for them, it shouldn't be a problem. I'd say it's part of the job."

Claire Armitstead of ASCL Cymru, which represents headteachers, said there had been a "huge increase" since the Covid pandemic in the number of children who need help going to the toilet.

She added the policy was not "parents against school" and concerns were around time rather than unwillingness to help.

"All over Wales there are a number of schools really struggling with this, because they have neither the money or the resource to keep supporting children in this way," said Ms Armitstead.

"If I have five teaching assistants in my school, and four of them are supporting toileting for children without additional learning needs, then they're not supporting for learning."

Eric, a children's bowel and bladder charity, said it was concerned parents were being "shamed" for not having toilet trained their children.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

There is a certain 'demographic' of parent that think by putting a iPad or similar tablet in front of its two year old is 'parenting'

However...

 

[Lambogenie]

They should be shamed though (except,again, if it's a medical issue)

I thought this was America. Haha. England Wales, you lazy fucks. Teachers need to clap back and get power back in general. So used and abused by shit parents.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

They should be shamed though (except,again, if it's a medical issue)

I thought this was America. Haha. England Wales, you lazy fucks. Teachers need to clap back and get power back in general. So used and abused by shit parents.

Believe me we're not lazy fucks, as I said there is a certain demographic that having a kid is their get out of jail card. Brings certain benefits and such and their only interaction is shoving chicken nuggets from maccies down its throat or when it starts screaming, sighing and shoving an iPad in its face to shut it up.

 

[Mohonky]

Concerned people were being shamed for not toilet training their kid; what, by 5 yrs old? The hell?

I mean if they have a learning disorder or medical reason, sure, but 5 yrs old and isn't toilet trained?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

About one in four children are not toilet trained when they start school in Wales and England, according to recent figures.

That's fine, and these kids in France are not going to school. Since it is obligatory to go to school in France either parents make sure the kid is potty trained or they risk fines.

Do some parenting FFS.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

"If the kid's in school, that's what they're there for, to be looked after.

No, they are in school to learn. What he is describing is nursery, and kindergarten is not that. Stupid Boomer.

Eric, a children's bowel and bladder charity, said it was concerned parents were being "shamed" for not having toilet trained their children.

As they should be.

 

[MudoSkills]

Whenever I wonder if I'm cut out to be a parent, I forget how low the bar is.

 

[Z O N E]

"We have members telling us that children as old as seven and eight, who have no additional learning needs or medical conditions, are struggling with toileting."

WHAT? HOW?

Just for the sake of curiosity, I asked my mum and she told me she started potty training me when I was around 1 to 1 1/2 years old. How are you NOT potty training your kid who is 7 or 8?!

This should be child neglect? Because what are you doing to raise your child? It's YOUR responsibility as a parent to teach them these things.

 

[kruis]

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74x23yw71yo

About one in four children are not toilet trained when they start school in Wales and England, according to recent figures..

What?!? How is that possible? But then I found this:

Why are children potty training later? - ERIC

Home > Why are children potty training later?

eric.org.uk

Why are children potty training later?​

Over the last century, the average age that our children are being toilet trained has moved from 12-18 months, to an average of around 3 or even 4 years today.
ERIC, The Children’s Bowel & Bladder Charity carried out research with the Association of Teachers and Lecturers in 2016 and the National Day Nursery Association in 2018. Both surveys showed that parents are toilet training their children later and that more children than ever before are starting school wearing nappies or pull-ups.
We have identified a number of reasons behind this growing trend:

---

Introduction of disposable nappies​

Modern nappies are so absorbent children don’t know when they are wet and don’t recognise when they need to use the toilet
Disposables are undoubtedly an amazing labour saving device, but when it comes to potty training they can make the process harder and take longer. They are designed to draw all the moisture away from a child’s bottom to prevent their skin from getting sore and keep them feeling comfortable – the perfect portable toilet! However, a child needs to get the feeling of wetness to be help them make the connection with what happens when they do a wee.
Re-usable nappies gives children this feeling and an incentive for parents to try and train them at a younger age.

---

Changes in parenting style​

Modern parenting theories emphasise a child-led approach which can delay toilet training, as families wait too long for their child to take the initiative.
Over time, attitudes to parenting have also changed dramatically. Caring for children used to be parent-led with children being expected to fit in with our routines. We have become more child-led and responsive to our children and their needs.
Parents today are more likely to feel that they should wait until their child is ready to be potty trained but aren’t always sure exactly when this should be. They worry that they could be doing harm to their child by taking nappies away too early.
A child-led approach worked well when children were wearing washable nappies, but it isn’t always as effective with disposables. There isn’t the same motivation for children to want to stop wearing them.

---

Longer hours in childcare​

More children spend longer in child-care settings, often cared for by early years workers who do not have skills nor experience to support toilet training
A survey conducted in 2018 showed that 72% of eligible 2 year olds and 92% of 3 year olds in England benefited from funded early education, in nurseries, pre-schools and with childminders. Our survey of early years practitioners showed that 70% of staff had received no training in how to potty train and only 53% of respondents said there was a potty training policy in place at their setting.

---

Changes to family life​

Changes to traditional family life resulting in lack of routine and children looked after by more than one adult/family member & spending time in more than one home.

---

NHS cutbacks​

Health Visitors are being cut or are no longer commissioned to help with toileting, leaving families with fewer places to go for help, and more likely to delay toilet training
The Institute of Health Visiting states that "around one in five health visitors were lost between 2015 and 2019 – the full-time equivalent of 18% of the workforce. This is due to public health budget cuts and the failure to protect health visitors’ preventative role by many cash-strapped local authorities, after health visiting commissioning moved from the NHS to local authorities in 2015".
Many families no longer have easy access to a Health Visitor after the statutory 2 year check and so do not have a reliable or trusted source of information to turn to for advice on when to start potty training.

 

[ClanOfNone]

Both of my girls were toilet trained right around the two year mark. Most of the pre-K programs required your kid to be toilet trained before they would be accepted, and certainly by actual elementary school age.
1 in 4 kids that start school aren’t toilet trained? Kids as old as 7 and 8 wearing pull ups? wtf are you doing over there UK?

 

[jufonuk]

The only time I think it’s right to expect a nappy change is when you stick your child into a nursery and you have nursery nurses that do it. Otherwise. Potty training is the way to go. Once your child starts proper school they should be toilet trained. It really isn’t the teachers job or the school to do it.

I’m with Nitty_Grimes

 

[bitbydeath]

Kindergartens teach them that where I live, along with being able to write their own name and my youngest had even learned to read before starting school.

 

[BlackTron]

1 in 4 are still in diapers when they go to school? What? 25% of everybody? I didn't even know it was a thing...at all

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Don't even get us UK GAF started on kids being able to read or write either.

As I keep saying, there are a number of people that believe having a kid is an obligation. The upkeep and maintenance of said kid isn't something they thought about (in some cases even think about) its someone else's problem is their opinion.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Poor kids suffering cause their parents are fucking losers who dont do basic parenting. Call these assholes out

 

[Mohonky]

Both of my girls were toilet trained right around the two year mark. Most of the pre-K programs required your kid to be toilet trained before they would be accepted, and certainly by actual elementary school age.
1 in 4 kids that start school aren’t toilet trained? Kids as old as 7 and 8 wearing pull ups? wtf are you doing over there UK?

Don't worry, the ones reporting people on Facebook for hate speech are still wearing their nappies too.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Health Visitors are being cut or are no longer commissioned to help with toileting, leaving families with fewer places to go for help, and more likely to delay toilet training

To go for help with what? This is not some KPMG implementation project that takes 3 years, it's to tell you kid to sit ass down on the potty. This makes it read like they are people in the state of perpetual life confusion.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

If a parent needs 'help' to train their kid to use a potty then I would seriously question that's parent's qualification to be a 'parent'

It's almost like you're implying 'I didn't know I could get pregnant if I had unprotected sex, I mean I was on the pill' kind of mentality.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I 100% agree that teachers shouldn't be forced to intervene in this way, and tbh, I'm surprised that sending a child to school in this state isn't so shameful that parents allow it to happen.

The problem here is that other measures lead to kids suffering for parents' fecklessness and that any punishment handed down to the parents actually impacts the child. If you refuse to allow the child to attend school until they can look after themselves then then you delay the child's development. If you fine the parents for it, you potentially push people already in or near poverty into ever more dire straits, the child included.

I think the solution of insisting parents come change and clean their children is probably born of desperation - the stance of the school, that staff are there for educational, not cleaning and hygiene needs is bang on.

As if it wasn't hard enough to recruit teachers!

 

[ssringo]

Eric, a children's bowel and bladder charity, said it was concerned parents were being "shamed" for not having toilet trained their children.

Good. People should feel shame. Kinda helps with correcting problems that affect others.

Hell, I'd expect the kid to feel shame at having his fucking nappie changed at school but I guess everyone has to be "accepting" these days and besides, you can't blame them for their parents failure.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This is a very reasonable punishment to the parents, as most kids in the US are potty trained by the age of 2. A teacher should not be responsible for the failings of the parents. They aren't a day care.

 

[Hookshot]

There's a whole underclass of people who breed in this country for more benefits not because they want to raise kids properly. When I grew up single mothers were still shamed but that changed and now the schools of filled with kids who can't wipe their arses let alone read or write. The parent doesn't care and the father is long since gone if they even knew the kid was theirs. It's also why some of these kids were so neglected that they fall pray to gangs, be that drugs or the grooming ones.

Edit - I'll add for the Americans here, the drug gangs I mention aren't just your usual selling weed or coke down the park, these are using kids/teens to ferry drugs around the country. They'll give the kids a bag full in Birmingham and put them on a train to Coventry where someone else will meet them and take the bag because kids travelling are less likely to be stopped by anyone. Doesn't matter that the kid should be in school, they aren't going to learn anything and so the money from it is a steady income.

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/keeping-safe/community-family/county-lines/transport-used-in-county-lines-exploitation

 

[AJUMP23]

Unless you are disabled at the schools here you have to be potty trained. My wife does have to help with changed of some disabled kids in after school cares at times.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

There's a whole underclass of people who breed in this country for more benefits not because they want to raise kids properly. When I grew up single mothers were still shamed but that changed and now the schools of filled with kids who can't wipe their arses let alone read or write. The parent doesn't care and the father is long since gone if they even knew the kid was theirs.

Nail meet head.

 

[Kraz]

It shouldn't be an educators job to do this anymore than it should be for them to provide armed protection.

They're there to teach the curriculum. Medical services should take care on diapers, and guards for the other in unstable barbaric nations.

 

[Northeastmonk]

My child is disabled and some days there are 0 accidents. Those are becoming common and he’s disabled. It’s so much work if your kid is disabled, but it’s totally worth seeing progression. And a win is a win. If you can’t do this with your typical kid then that’s a big wtf. Take a week or a weekend and start potty training. There’s a ton of material on potty training, especially for disabled children.

That whole iPad thing bugs me. We decided not to put my kid into a particular school district. The reason being, we toured the place and all the disabled kids were sitting in corners watching YouTube. This apparently has caused lots of complaints online.

This is why it sucks so much when you hear about benefits for disabled children getting cut.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

now the schools of filled with kids who can't wipe their arses let alone read or write.

they fall pray to gangs

(sorry, couldn't resist).

 

[Artoris]

Believe me we're not lazy fucks, as I said there is a certain demographic that having a kid is their get out of jail card. Brings certain benefits and such and their only interaction is shoving chicken nuggets from maccies down its throat or when it starts screaming, sighing and shoving an iPad in its face to shut it up.

"shoving chicken nuggets from maccies down its throat or when it starts screaming, sighing and shoving an iPad in its face to shut it up"

I guess it could be worse

 

[Mistake]

A school and daycare are two different things. I've taught kids as young as three and they were potty trained. Sure there's accidents occasionally, but that's whatever. Unless the kid is disabled, that's ridiculous

 

[Drew1440]

I wonder if this correlates with the increase of cousin marrages, and the consequences of the resulting offspring.

 

[V1LÆM]

fuck sake. kids are going to school wearing nappies???

nursery i get but primary school?

alright when i was in primary i had some problems and i shit myself once or twice because i was too scared to go to the toilet and would hold it in. i was a very nervous/anxious kid and wouldn't go to school if it was raining lol. teachers never went near me. they gave me a spare pair of gym shorts, stuffed my shitty underwear into a plastic bag, and called my parents to pick me up.

people are fucking stupid. don't have kids if you can't look after them. fuck sake.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

"shoving chicken nuggets from maccies down its throat or when it starts screaming, sighing and shoving an iPad in its face to shut it up"

I guess it could be worse

You conveniently missed my 'there is a certain demographic'

Perhaps I should rephrase we're not ALL lazy fucks?

 

[-Minsc-]

My mother used to be a babysitter, she toilet trained a lot of kids.

 

[poppabk]

To go for help with what? This is not some KPMG implementation project that takes 3 years, it's to tell you kid to sit ass down on the potty. This makes it read like they are people in the state of perpetual life confusion.

Eh, its not teaching them to sit on the potty but to do it at the right time. My son has aspergers and we tried everything to get him potty trained - you name it we tried it, songs, special seats, timed visits etc. We were practically pulling our hair out as kindergarten approached. Then one day I was taking a piss and all of a sudden a second stream joined mine.
He was basically potty trained from that day on.
My daughter it was so easy I don't even remember doing it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Lol.

Dumbass parents treating teachers as glorified babysitters.

Makes sense if you think about it.

Lazy parents watching NF leaving their kid become zombified watching Paw Patrol on a tablet all night. Then they shit their pants and wait for mom and dad to wipe their ass an hour later after Squid Games is over.

Everything important in life seems to involve qualifications, certifications, even goofing around buying a $2 scratch ticket at a gas station you know will be a loss 99% of the time involves adult age.

But having kids as zero skilled parents is always 100% ok.

Every parent should require mandatory parenting class. And if they fail, their taxes go up 10%. Lol

 

[Pegasus Actual]

What a shitty situation. Hope you guys can get it cleaned up.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

My son has aspergers and we tried everything to get him potty trained - you name it we tried it, songs, special seats, timed visits etc. We were practically pulling our hair out as kindergarten approached. Then one day I was taking a piss and all of a sudden a second stream joined mine.
He was basically potty trained from that day on.

And your example is an "edge case" that doesn't apply to vast majority of kids. I think 1 1/2 to 2 years is probably a bit too young, but from the moment they understand what you are saying - go for it.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The reason being, we toured the place and all the disabled kids were sitting in corners watching YouTube.

That is just vile.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

You conveniently missed my 'there is a certain demographic'

Perhaps I should rephrase we're not ALL lazy fucks?

Far too many dumb fucks having kids in addition to teenage pregnancies.

No one should have the right to have a child.

The act of procreation is easy, but raising a child is not.

Worse yet, it's always the dumbest motherfuckers who have the most kids (often single mothers).

 

[Cyberpunkd]

No one should have the right to have a child.

Check this out, eugenics in 2025. The year is starting splendidly.

 

[Trilobit]

If that happens to kids in ages 6-8 then the social services need to be contacted because something is clearly wrong. I can't remember that ever happening to any of my classmates when I was first grade. It would have been incredibly humiliating and that kid would probably have been bullied and made fun of. I don't even have words for this. It's some serious regressive behaviour, but it happening to 1 in 4 is insane and there needs to be a serious and comprehensive investigation. In no ways is it the teachers' responsibility to handle that, kindergarten teachers probably have education for it. If it's the parents' fault then they should rightfully be shamed into oblivion because not potty training your kids is akin to not feeding them every day.

 

[Hookshot]

If that happens to kids in ages 6-8 then the social services need to be contacted because something is clearly wrong. I can't remember that ever happening to any of my classmates when I was first grade. It would have been incredibly humiliating and that kid would probably have been bullied and made fun of. I don't even have words for this. It's some serious regressive behaviour, but it happening to 1 in 4 is insane and there needs to be a serious and comprehensive investigation. In no ways is it the teachers' responsibility to handle that, kindergarten teachers probably have education for it. If it's the parents' fault then they should rightfully be shamed into oblivion because not potty training your kids is akin to not feeding them every day.

Guess what that means.... More kids in the care system, more victims for the grooming gangs. These are the exact kind of broken home kids that were being prayed on, which is also why most people of a "higher" class didn't and do not care.

It's a fucking mess of multiple failed policies that no body wants to even attempt to fix. I don't know how to fix it.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Check this out, eugenics in 2025. The year is starting splendidly.

It was primarily an offhand comment directed to some people who think they can endlessly pop out babies. Whilst I am usually against interventions at a state level, I genuinely think there should be an 'evaluation' to consider an individual's fitness or capacity to be a parent if they have more than 2-3 kids or a history of mental health disorder.

 

[FeralEcho]

This is what a system built by snowflakes looks like.

When no one tells you the flaws you have to not "hurt" you,you grow up having no shame when an adult has to change your fucking diapers when you're 7 years old.

And it's not the kids at fault here, it's the adults that have let this happen in the first place,and they should be the ones shamed in public for this shit.

Maybe then they'd understand that sometimes it's better to tell someone hurtful things to help them grow and evolve their character as it has for humanity since the dawn of time.

 

[Aesius]

Concerned people were being shamed for not toilet training their kid; what, by 5 yrs old? The hell?

I mean if they have a learning disorder or medical reason, sure, but 5 yrs old and isn't toilet trained?

I can almost guarantee this is at least partially due to excess screen time. And likely tablets.

My oldest son turned 4 a couple months ago and despite potty training him for a YEAR AND A HALF, he still occasionally has minor pee accidents when we let him watch Disney+ or YouTube. If he really likes what he's watching, he basically loses all sense of self or just can't pull himself away from the screen to go to the potty. But if he's just playing with toys or whatever, he takes himself to the bathroom when he needs to go without us having to ask him if he needs to go.

So I think parents are trying to potty train, but their kids get so much screen time (and they likely have tablets, which our son DOES NOT) that they have frequent accidents at home, so the parents just kinda give up. Then they end up school-aged and are still somewhat or completely incontinent because their parents put them back in diapers because they're tired of dealing with the mess.

 

[RagnarokIV]

alright when i was in primary i had some problems and i shit myself once or twice because i was too scared to go to the toilet and would hold it in. i was a very nervous/anxious kid and wouldn't go to school if it was raining lol. teachers never went near me. they gave me a spare pair of gym shorts, stuffed my shitty underwear into a plastic bag, and called my parents to pick me up.

Same. One time I shit my pants in school and they didn't have any left over pants and so I had to wear Minnie Mouse knickers they dug out of somewhere. I guess I was a transgender crossdressing before it was cool.

 

[cormack12]

Same. One time I shit my pants in school and they didn't have any left over pants and so I had to wear Minnie Mouse knickers they dug out of somewhere. I guess I was a transgender crossdressing before it was cool.

Dude. I want them back.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I can almost guarantee this is at least partially due to excess screen time. And likely tablets.

My oldest son turned 4 a couple months ago and despite potty training him for a YEAR AND A HALF, he still occasionally has minor pee accidents when we let him watch Disney+ or YouTube. If he really likes what he's watching, he basically loses all sense of self or just can't pull himself away from the screen to go to the potty. But if he's just playing with toys or whatever, he takes himself to the bathroom when he needs to go without us having to ask him if he needs to go.

So I think parents are trying to potty train, but their kids get so much screen time (and they likely have tablets, which our son DOES NOT) that they have frequent accidents at home, so the parents just kinda give up. Then they end up school-aged and are still somewhat or completely incontinent because their parents put them back in diapers because they're tired of dealing with the mess.

I think their CPUs are just too small to process multiple things at once. When we get the kids to watch TV (c'mon, don't judge) I need to either pause or ask them 5 times the same question for it to register.

 

[Aesius]

I think their CPUs are just too small to process multiple things at once. When we get the kids to watch TV (c'mon, don't judge) I need to either pause or ask them 5 times the same question for it to register.

Agreed, plus kids' programming on modern HDTVs is just insanely hypnotizing for them. I mean, I had A LOT of screen time as a kid, but it was on a 27" wood-paneled tube TV. And I cycled through the same 4-5 VHS tapes. So I got bored of shit quickly. But my kids have an infinite variety of 4K content to watch on a gorgeous 65" OLED TV. I've debated heavily on moving it to my office and just not having a TV in our living room anymore, but my wife and I watch stuff on it too after our kids are asleep. But I still may do it.