Under Night In-birth Exe:Late |OT| Under Night In-America

OceanBlue said:
IMO it's really hard to react to rebeat pressure, even offline. Like AnnelFrank said, most of it tends to be only slightly minus (I think most of Hyde's is -2 except for 5[C] 2A obviously, and Orie's 2C 2A might be -3 or something). Most times I just have to guess since if I try to react, I'm already too slow to get frame advantage.
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It actually depends heavily on the character. Like with Merkava pretty much all his rebeat pressure is more negative than that, but range and ability to convert and throw out a bunch of options and yada yada.

Have a preview of the video I'm working on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6AhC2ZAxSM&feature=youtu.be
 
I have trouble hitting my Hilda bnb on characters like Linne and Vatista. It definitely works, but the timing seems weirder on them for some reason. Any other Hilda players here have similar problems or is it all in my head?
 
El Sloth said:
I have trouble hitting my Hilda bnb on characters like Linne and Vatista. It definitely works, but the timing seems weirder on them for some reason. Any other Hilda players here have similar problems or is it all in my head?
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I don't know which Hilda BNB you're doing, but mine usually involves microdashes before the 3B and 3CC's against those characters.
 
Hola, so I was further testing safejumps and doing frame by frame review of recordings and blah blah. Anyways, it looks like the fastest thing you can safejump is 5 frames, like anything faster I can't find a way to safejump. Curious if anybody else here knows what's up with landing recovery after air normals.
 
Essay said:
I don't know which Hilda BNB you're doing, but mine usually involves microdashes before the 3B and 3CC's against those characters.
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I usually go for 5B > 2B > 2CC xx 623A > 3CC xx B lynchpin and then usually 214 B for the setup afterwards.

It's the B lynchpin part that tends to whiff on those characters for me. I think I'm doing the 3CC too early on them, since I land it more consistently if I change up my timing. I think, but am not sure, that Hilda's distance from the wall also effects it.

So you dash after the 623A then?
 
AnneIFrank said:
Hola, so I was further testing safejumps and doing frame by frame review of recordings and blah blah. Anyways, it looks like the fastest thing you can safejump is 5 frames, like anything faster I can't find a way to safejump. Curious if anybody else here knows what's up with landing recovery after air normals.
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From spending some time playing a copy of the game with a bunch of the debug information enabled, it was listing the landing recovery for jumping attacks as part of the frame data, and it looks like each normal has its own value for landing recovery. So I'm willing to bet that some normals just can't be used for safe jumps -- but some other normals are listed as having no landing recovery but it seems like you'll still eat fast reversals, so there's probably something else going on.
 
Kumubou said:
From spending some time playing a copy of the game with a bunch of the debug information enabled, it was listing the landing recovery for jumping attacks as part of the frame data, and it looks like each normal has its own value for landing recovery. So I'm willing to bet that some normals just can't be used for safe jumps -- but some other normals are listed as having no landing recovery but it seems like you'll still eat fast reversals, so there's probably something else going on.
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Hmmm weird. With Merkava j.A I I can get it so the safejump is frame perfect, Merk lands and enters landing recovery, then gets bopped by Vatista flashkick. That flashkick is supposedly 4 frames (same set up beat's Hyde 623C and Aka 22B which are both 5) and Merk clearly landed and isn't getting CH, so I'm going by assumption.

Curious if it's a by move or by landing recovery thing. I tested j.B and you can safejump with that as well. All of these are from flight btw so that might also have something to do with it. Best guess is that moves with no landing recovery listed in the data are just subjected to a normal set amount of landing recovery like in most games.
 
AnneIFrank said:
Hmmm weird. With Merkava j.A I I can get it so the safejump is frame perfect, Merk lands and enters landing recovery, then gets bopped by Vatista flashkick. That flashkick is supposedly 4 frames (same set up beat's Hyde 623C and Aka 22B which are both 5) and Merk clearly landed and isn't getting CH, so I'm going by assumption.

Curious if it's a by move or by landing recovery thing. I tested j.B and you can safejump with that as well. All of these are from flight btw so that might also have something to do with it. Best guess is that moves with no landing recovery listed in the data are just subjected to a normal set amount of landing recovery like in most games.
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Got some more info about this: each move seems to have it's own landing recovery value. For example, Merkava's j.A has 2 frames of landing recovery, j.B has 3, j.C has 4, j.2C has 10 and the dive out of hover has 16 frames. The landing recovery is based on the move that's currently out, or if you're in neutral it was the last move used. So the dive having all that recovery means little, since you can cancel into another attack on hit/block and negate most of it (and it's nearly impossible to whiff with it). Of course, there are exceptions:

-Rising air normals have no landing recovery.
-Attacks that hit have no landing recovery.
-Air normals out of assault (both ground and air) always have 2 frames of landing recovery (regardless of the normal, and regardless if whiffed, was blocked, or hit).
-Having an attack get shielded sets your landing recovery to 10 frames (and you lose all of your cancel options).

But then, there are exceptions to those exceptions:

-Merkava's j.2C always has 10 frames of landing recovery, even if it's TKed, out of assault, hits, or is shielded.
-Merkava's dive attack out of hover ignores shield penalties (whoever at French Bread thought this was a good idea needs to be smacked).

I don't know if the landing recovery replaces the normal jump/assault landing recovery (if there is any), or if it's added to that.

Fake fake edit: Herp derp the Mizuumi wiki has most of the system-general data for landing recovery:

0f: landing from empty jump
2f: landing from ANY assault jump attack
2f: landing from j.A's
3f: landing from j.B's
4f: landing from j.C's
4f: landing from empty assault
6f: landing from jump shield
10f: landing from shielded jump attack
10f: landing from shielded assault attack
 
Honestly most of my stupid 360 attemps that get me killed is me thinking for who knows what reason that you'll touch the ground by the time I do it

I need to stop
 
OceanBlue said:
Vatista's pressure is kinda hard to do lol. It's not as straightforward as Orie's or Hyde's.
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Yeah, my friend who mains her says the same, pointing out that she requires a lot of understanding of which buttons to hold and what you can and can't do when you're doing so. Her pressure with the unseeable overhead covered by the exploding crystal is the bane of my existence though.
 
Essay said:
Yeah, my friend who mains her says the same, pointing out that she requires a lot of understanding of which buttons to hold and what you can and can't do when you're doing so. Her pressure with the unseeable overhead covered by the exploding crystal is the bane of my existence though.
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Lol, really I feel like I have to just get better at planning what I want to do on offense before I go in. I kinda just freestyle with Hyde since his offense is so stable. :V
 
ggs Rhapsody. It's really fun playing you lol. Too bad we're coast-to-coast. :(

Can you DP after Nanase's slide between the overhead/low mixup? If the slide is unsafe, that would be pretty crazy. Also that Seth x__x. I need to work on making my Orie's offense scarier and on using my resources with Hyde when I have them.

Edit: Also sorry if I'm a bit boring to play lol. I like standing around. Anyway if you're still looking for people to play after I finish shopping, I'll play you more.

DiscoShark said:
Speaking of Vatista stuff I stumbled across this ridiculous one while searching for videos :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KEbBliuwJM#t=9m45s

and (same video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KEbBliuwJM#t=19m29s

Definitely something to look at closely if you're looking to figure out her pressure. I'm trying to pick her up myself. :P
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Oh this guy is the top-ranked Vatista. He has a good win record with him too lol. I've been watching Wako play but more footage to watch is always great. Thanks a lot!
 
OceanBlue said:
Too bad we're coast-to-coast. :(
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This is what scares me away most of all. A lot of animefgc
gaf
is way way waaaay on the west coast. I'm not a high level player, but I know when my Seth combos feel off and I have trouble punishing whiffed limbs
with my amazing normals, lol.
 
OceanBlue said:
ggs Rhapsody. It's really fun playing you lol. Too bad we're coast-to-coast. :(

Can you DP after Nanase's slide between the overhead/low mixup? If the slide is unsafe, that would be pretty crazy. Also that Seth x__x. I need to work on making my Orie's offense scarier and on using my resources with Hyde when I have them.
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GGs. And which Nanase slide? Her special move where she can do follow ups or are you talking about her dash B/dash C stuff? For the special move, it's not that great on blockstrings. Her A follow ups stab and she needs to either CS or do 214C to be safe (214C is even plus on block). B follow up is that high slash. It's not good since you can DP before the high slash hits, so I usually stop doing this when the opponent knows. C follow up is the pass through. Even this is unsafe against most characters. As a side note, none of these are lows, even before the follow up. Just stand block once you see her 236x stuff and you're gold.

In practical use, the biggest reason Nanase would want to do these on block is to either get in after max range 5C and pressure them in the corner. Another reason is if you're cornered and you manage to get out a normal that they block, you special cancel into stab and then CS (which can make you swap sides) or 214C to escape.

Dash B/Dash C are pretty bad. Dash B is a low and comes out faster than dash C. All you do is when you see this animation, block low and then change your block to high and it'll cover both options. On block, Nanase's options are B+C, special, and super cancel.
OceanBlue said:
Edit: Also sorry if I'm a bit boring to play lol. I like standing around. Anyway if you're still looking for people to play after I finish shopping, I'll play you more.
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Not at all, it was fun. I enjoy playing people I at least know compared to random ranked, regardless of connection too.
 
Uraizen said:
This is what scares me away most of all. A lot of animefgc
gaf
is way way waaaay on the west coast. I'm not a high level player, but I know when my Seth combos feel off and I have trouble punishing whiffed limbs
with my amazing normals, lol.
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Lol, yeah I think I got away with really bad whiffs against Rhapsody. I whiffed a lot of 2Cs as Orie (I'm not used to people pushing me out of 2C range with shield) but I luckily didn't really get punished lol. It's probably not easy for Akatsuki though.

Rhapsody said:
GGs. And which Nanase slide? Her special move where she can do follow ups or are you talking about her dash B/dash C stuff? For the special move, it's not that great on blockstrings. Her A follow ups stab and she needs to either CS or do 214C to be safe (214C is even plus on block). B follow up is that high slash. It's not good since you can DP before the high slash hits, so I usually stop doing this when the opponent knows. C follow up is the pass through. Even this is unsafe against most characters. As a side note, none of these are lows, even before the follow up. Just stand block once you see her 236x stuff and you're gold.

In practical use, the biggest reason Nanase would want to do these on block is to either get in after max range 5C and pressure them in the corner. Another reason is if you're cornered and you manage to get out a normal that they block, you special cancel into stab and then CS (which can make you swap sides) or 214C to escape.

Dash B/Dash C are pretty bad. Dash B is a low and comes out faster than dash C. All you do is when you see this animation, block low and then change your block to high and it'll cover both options. On block, Nanase's options are B+C, special, and super cancel.

Not at all, it was fun. I enjoy playing people I at least know compared to random ranked, regardless of connection too.
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Uhh... I guess I need to training mode Nanase lol. Glad you enjoyed it at least. :D
 
QisTopTier said:
Where is my list of things to improve on!

jk
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You're like the one person I probably don't need to give a list to help on lol

You should learn Carmine's swag 5.6k veil off combos lol
El Sloth said:
What's that supposed to mean
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I remember saying you wanted to work on defense in the other thread. I see a habit of you trying to always do something on reversal. Midscreen after a combo, you'll up back every back tech, so I looked to AA it. This is even worse when you up back when already cornered since I have a lot of options ready. You need to EX shield and inch forward.

In the corner, you'll throw on wakeup a ton. Be careful. As Nanase I would just meaty you every single time without worrying too much on hit confirming. Same goes for if I did assaults as Akatsuki.

I guess the biggest one is something I see a lot of people do is people feeling compelled to push a button after a whiff. After you whiffed a projectile or normal in the air or ground, I'd go in to start pressure, but I'd end up counter hitting the opponent for free damage (one I don't feel like I deserved). Just block. Online you might be able to hit them first, but that's mostly because of the input delay affecting their meaties.

GGs, and good use of veil off here and there. Your other supers don't really have invul, so you'll have to learn how to stick your ground and defend. Throwing is a good option for Hilda if you need to stick something out fast, but doing it too much online along with up backing defeats the purpose of improving defense.
 
Rhapsody said:
I remember saying you wanted to work on defense in the other thread. I see a habit of you trying to always do something on reversal. Midscreen after a combo, you'll up back every back tech, so I looked to AA it. This is even worse when you up back when already cornered since I have a lot of options ready. You need to EX shield and inch forward.

In the corner, you'll throw on wakeup a ton. Be careful. As Nanase I would just meaty you every single time without worrying too much on hit confirming. Same goes for if I did assaults as Akatsuki.

I guess the biggest one is something I see a lot of people do is people feeling compelled to push a button after a whiff. After you whiffed a projectile or normal in the air or ground, I'd go in to start pressure, but I'd end up counter hitting the opponent for free damage (one I don't feel like I deserved). Just block. Online you might be able to hit them first, but that's mostly because of the input delay affecting their meaties.

GGs, and good use of veil off here and there. Your other supers don't really have invul, so you'll have to learn how to stick your ground and defend. Throwing is a good option for Hilda if you need to stick something out fast, but doing it too much online along with up backing defeats the purpose of improving defense.
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Now you understand why I need to work on my defense lol. I've picked up the bad habit of always needing to try something on wakeup, no matter the game, to interrupt my opponents offense because it's worked for me so much in SSIV online. I have a feeling improving my defense with Hilda in this game will be something that will carry over to the other games I play.

I did try green shielding a bit in the beginning, but I saw it wasn't really having much of an effect because of that move Nanase does that rushes her forward. It didn't really occur to me to be patient and slowly "inch" forward though.

Yeah, I get nervous and then a itchy trigger finger for throws. Although I don't remember going for throws very much against you in the corner. I usually tried to press a button if I thought I saw a gap in the pressure (there was never a gap RIP). I did try to wakeup with throw in general way too much, especially after being knocked down midscreen and you'd be right on top of me. Meatied every time.

I'll keep that in mind. I was definitely hearing "COUNTAH" way too much and kept slapping myself upside the head.

I meant to ask yesterday but fell asleep, were you expecting me to pop Veil Off when you were doing that air projectile against me in the corner or was it just a coincidence that recovers fast enough? I remember being baited by that at least three different times. Yeah, and I keep forgetting blocking isn't such a bad thing in this game thanks to GRD. Vorpal really does make a difference, especially for Hilda who doesn't have many ways to get people off of her.

Thanks for the advice, and I really am serious about improving my defense! In fact, last night I was actually shield blocking more than I usually do believe it or not! Just because it's still shit doesn't mean I'm not improving it a little! lol

I really need to learn to shield assualts and regular jump ins since the extra landing lag should theoretically let Hilda hit with her 2A.

Edit: Also, how did our connection feel for you? I thought it was pretty decent considering it was cross-coast
 
El Sloth said:
I meant to ask yesterday but fell asleep, were you expecting me to pop Veil Off when you were doing that air projectile against me in the corner or was it just a coincidence that recovers fast enough? I remember being baited by that at least three different times. Yeah, and I keep forgetting blocking isn't such a bad thing in this game thanks to GRD. Vorpal really does make a difference, especially for Hilda who doesn't have many ways to get people off of her.

I really need to learn to shield assualts and regular jump ins since the extra landing lag should theoretically let Hilda hit with her 2A.

Edit: Also, how did our connection feel for you? I thought it was pretty decent considering it was cross-coast
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In a block string or on oki? If it's on a blockstring, I got lucky then. For combo enders, I went for wind projectile only when you had enough meter for veil off. I went for hard knockdown+damage otherwise since Hilda has no other options.

Shielding assaults vary from character to character, but yeah, it's good to shield air normals when players get really predictable or autopilot.

QisTopTier said:
Honestly I haven't even looked at any guides or videos really yet haha I'm just winging it :P
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Carmine can be really scary. Came across 2GB Combo last night and only won 1 out of 4. :(

I wasn't free on my losses, but I was definitely inexperienced on some setups and strings.
 
I ran into SonicFox a few different times in ranked. I beat him more than he beats me, but sometimes I block and then just die pretty horribly. That's Carmine :T
 
Pretty much. Also sucks when you block looking for a way out then you get command grabbed in a set up :/
I really need to stay in control of Vorpal since losing over 4k off of that and CS sucks.

Also I've been thinking if Nanase's 214A in Vorpal state on their wakeup would be a good idea. Theoretically it should cover all of their options if I'm willing to spend CS to maintain pressure without any guessing. But regardless, their wakeup isn't the problem, I need to figure out escaping corner pressure like that.
 
Rhapsody said:
Pretty much. Also sucks when you block looking for a way out then you get command grabbed in a set up :/
I really need to stay in control of Vorpal since losing over 4k off of that and CS sucks.

Also I've been thinking if Nanase's 214A in Vorpal state on their wakeup would be a good idea. Theoretically it should cover all of their options if I'm willing to spend CS to maintain pressure without any guessing. But regardless, their wakeup isn't the problem, I need to figure out escaping corner pressure like that.
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Aww, I got all excited until I saw the only one he has uses meter.
 
AnneIFrank said:
Orie actually fights Merkava pretty well by just playing good neutral. She has good hitbox interactions with him at some ranges.
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it feels to me that I can't counter poke him at long range and I have to guess to get closer. I walk/dash (he can get a grab), I jump/assault (he can get a grab). That and I've mistimed every 3B b/c of that hover being longer than I expected. Also 2B has screwed me over so many times in that fight since that hitbox isn't the same as the animation it seems like (too bad I can't use the viewer anymore :( )
 
irfaanator said:
it feels to me that I can't counter poke him at long range and I have to guess to get closer. I walk/dash (he can get a grab), I jump/assault (he can get a grab). That and I've mistimed every 3B b/c of that hover being longer than I expected. Also 2B has screwed me over so many times in that fight since that hitbox isn't the same as the animation it seems like (too bad I can't use the viewer anymore :( )
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You can dorit and harass him a bit in midrange since Orie's hitboxes extend a good bit out of their hurtboxes. If he's killing you with his 214x moves, you're really not doing the neutral right.
 
AnneIFrank said:
You can dorit and harass him a bit in midrange since Orie's hitboxes extend a good bit out of their hurtboxes. If he's killing you with his 214x moves, you're really not doing the neutral right.
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I was using divine thrust at times, but I haven't got the spacing down or they would trade. Guess I just have to figure out her normals better
 
irfaanator said:
I was using divine thrust at times, but I haven't got the spacing down or they would trade. Guess I just have to figure out her normals better
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Let me just drop the key thing about fighting Merk real quick. The thing actually does have hurtboxes and recovery. Like, the reason I say that about 214x is because those moves have a ton of start up and recovery and can whiff really easily. Like if you run at Merk and he commits to 214A and you jump, well he just died. They're not good moves to just throw out unless you're fairly sure it's safe to do so. 2B's hitbox is really long, but on whiff it's horrendous, so we won't throw it out unless we're sure it'll be blocked. All of his buttons have a lot of frames on them and extend his hurtbox, so he has to show some restraint. The main way we get around this is actually fast fly j.B, but once you're into a certain range that just becomes a pretty big risk. I'm not saying his buttons aren't stupid good, they are absolutely retarded, but you can actually play neutral around Merk's ranges.

The thing with Orie, is she has a lot of moves that have the hitbox extend past the hurtbox, while most of Merk's tend to overlap, so she can actually be pretty aggressive in poking some stuff out. On the ground, if she wants to droit or do like DC or something, I have to actually play around it. Her AA is good, and her jump buttons can be hard for Merk to AA in some cases because again, extended hurtbox vs extended hitbox.

High level Merk play is actually pretty funny when you see it. He'll use flight and buttons to grab spacing, but when a certain spacing happens, he just uses the threat of buttons to force respect. Merks in Japan will sit in like 5B range, then just run up and 2B because they know the opponent is scared to challenge. Orie can actually pretty directly challenge him on the ground, which is a good thing. I'm not saying it's good for her overall, I mean Merk is still going to be Merk, but she's one of the better chars at dealing with him.
 
AnneIFrank said:
Let me just drop the key thing about fighting Merk real quick. The thing actually does have hurtboxes and recovery. Like, the reason I say that about 214x is because those moves have a ton of start up and recovery and can whiff really easily. Like if you run at Merk and he commits to 214A and you jump, well he just died. They're not good moves to just throw out unless you're fairly sure it's safe to do so. 2B's hitbox is really long, but on whiff it's horrendous, so we won't throw it out unless we're sure it'll be blocked. All of his buttons have a lot of frames on them and extend his hurtbox, so he has to show some restraint. The main way we get around this is actually fast fly j.B, but once you're into a certain range that just becomes a pretty big risk. I'm not saying his buttons aren't stupid good, they are absolutely retarded, but you can actually play neutral around Merk's ranges.

The thing with Orie, is she has a lot of moves that have the hitbox extend past the hurtbox, while most of Merk's tend to overlap, so she can actually be pretty aggressive in poking some stuff out. On the ground, if she wants to droit or do like DC or something, I have to actually play around it. Her AA is good, and her jump buttons can be hard for Merk to AA in some cases because again, extended hurtbox vs extended hitbox.

High level Merk play is actually pretty funny when you see it. He'll use flight and buttons to grab spacing, but when a certain spacing happens, he just uses the threat of buttons to force respect. Merks in Japan will sit in like 5B range, then just run up and 2B because they know the opponent is scared to challenge. Orie can actually pretty directly challenge him on the ground, which is a good thing. I'm not saying it's good for her overall, I mean Merk is still going to be Merk, but she's one of the better chars at dealing with him.
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Gotcha. Is there a youtube channel of jp uniel?
 
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