Support NeoGAF

[Audioboxer]

Three men planned to "create the next 9/11" by staging coordinated shootings and bombings in New York City, prosecutors have revealed.

The alleged plot would have seen explosives detonated in Times Square and on the city's subway, as well as shootings at concert venues in June 2016.

Although an undercover agent disrupted the alleged plot more than year ago, the arrests of three suspects remained secret until police completed a terror investigation.

Prosecutors say Abdulrahman El Bahnasawy, 19, and Talha Haroon, also aged 19, unwittingly discussed their ideas for an attack with the undercover agent who posed online as an Islamic State supporter.

According to court documents, El Bahnasawy sent the agent an image of Times Square with a message saying: "We seriously need to car bomb Times Square. Look at these crowds of people!"

In other messages, he allegedly expressed a desire to "create the next 9/11" and "shoot up concerts cuz they kill a lot people...we just walk in with guns in our hands".

El Bahnasawy purchased bomb-making materials, including hydrogen peroxide, and shipped them to the undercover agent, prosecutors say.

More @ http://news.sky.com/story/undercove...911-in-new-york-city-prosecutors-say-11070341

More evidence of the great work intelligence services can pull off. Then again, more evidence of how weak gun regulation can lead to crazy people committing atrocities far easier.

Also, more young men.

 

[SpaceWolf]

According to court documents, El Bahnasawy sent the agent an image of Times Square with a message saying: "We seriously need to car bomb Times Square. Look at these crowds of people!"

Christ.

 

[Sunster]

3 guys? and they sound like idiots. no way this would have been the next 9/11

 

[AmyS]

Even if they'd pulled off all that they had planned, it wouldn't have been anything close to 9/11.

 

[BrassDragon]

Good intervention that should be applauded.... but no way that plan was going to give them 3,000 dead and 6,000 wounded on par with 9/11.

It's an overblown and frankly unprofessional claim.

 

[Norwegian Rudo]

I'll wait for more info. Several of these cases have turned out it's been 99% the undercover guys pushing everybody else into illegal stuff.

 

[jellies_two]

3 guys? and they sound like idiots. no way this would have been the next 9/11

Keeping an open mind but let's see how much the "Islamic state supporter" who was a fed agent actually helped them along.
Still remember that bust of a nobody where the government suggested the plan supplied the arms dealer, the fake missiles, and then the money when the guy had none.

 

[Audioboxer]

3 guys? and they sound like idiots. no way this would have been the next 9/11

It's more based on his words

he allegedly expressed a desire to "create the next 9/11"

That's what these extremists still look up to, to this day. The areas they want to target are high population, and we have just witnessed what gun sprees in high-density areas can do, let alone multiple attacks at once with guns/bombs.

I think the concern here is far less "it wouldn't technically be able to reach 9/11 level of deaths" and more "here is more evidence extremists are moving to target high population areas". Just because America has been hit less by some of these people than Europe doesn't mean your intelligence services do not have a challenge here. As we can see from these people who did actually act on their words

El Bahnasawy purchased bomb-making materials, including hydrogen peroxide, and shipped them to the undercover agent, prosecutors say.

These threats need to be taken seriously, not brushed off, and it's important to understand why they look up to 9/11.

Yea my post was a dig at the terrorists, not the article or OP.

Ah, right, gotcha.

I'll wait for more info. Several of these cases have turned out it's been 99% the undercover guys pushing everybody else into illegal stuff.

Yes, this is clearly the undercover agent's fault

He was also said to have acquired a cabin within driving distance of New York City to build explosives in.

Meanwhile, Haroon allegedly asked an explosives expert for advice and planned to travel from Pakistan to help El Bahnasawy carry out the attack.

The 19-year-old told the undercover agent the subway was a "perfect" place to shoot passengers, adding that "when we run out of bullets we let the vests go off", according to court documents.

Russell Salic, a 37-year-old from the Philippines, is accused of sending money to El Bahnasawy and Haroon to fund the alleged plot.

Abdulrahman El Bahnasawy, a Canadian citizen, was arrested in New Jersey and pleaded guilty to seven terror charges in October 2016.

He is set to be sentenced in December and faces life in prison.

Talha Haroon was held in Pakistan in September 2016, while Salic was arrested in the Philippines in April.

Both are set to be extradited to the US.

 

[Sunster]

It's more based on his words



That's what these extremists still look up to, to this day. The areas they want to target are high population, and we have just witnessed what gun sprees in high-density areas can do, let alone multiple attacks at once with guns/bombs.

I think the concern here is far less "it wouldn't technically be able to reach 9/11 level of deaths" and more "here is more evidence extremists are moving to target high population areas". Just because America has been hit less by some of these people than Europe doesn't mean your intelligence services do not have a challenge here. As we can see from these people who did actually act on their words

Yea my post was a dig at the terrorists, not the article or OP.

 

[III-V]

I wonder what punishment they will receive. I did not see, OP were they US born as well?

 

[Audioboxer]

I wonder what punishment they will receive. I did not see, OP were they US born as well?

The rest of the article mentions this which I quoted above

He was also said to have acquired a cabin within driving distance of New York City to build explosives in.

Meanwhile, Haroon allegedly asked an explosives expert for advice and planned to travel from Pakistan to help El Bahnasawy carry out the attack.

The 19-year-old told the undercover agent the subway was a "perfect" place to shoot passengers, adding that "when we run out of bullets we let the vests go off", according to court documents.

Russell Salic, a 37-year-old from the Philippines, is accused of sending money to El Bahnasawy and Haroon to fund the alleged plot.

Abdulrahman El Bahnasawy, a Canadian citizen, was arrested in New Jersey and pleaded guilty to seven terror charges in October 2016.

He is set to be sentenced in December and faces life in prison.

Talha Haroon was held in Pakistan in September 2016, while Salic was arrested in the Philippines in April.

Both are set to be extradited to the US.

 

[FStubbs]

Trump will go off on this one, watch.

And yet he also hates our intelligence communities.

 

[Audioboxer]

Trump will go off on this one, watch.

And yet he also hates our intelligence communities.

This work/investigation was done under Obama's watch, so no credit for Trump.

I'm sure Trump will take credit though...

 

[Beartruck]

This work/investigation was done under Obama's watch, so no credit for Trump.

I'm sure Trump will take credit though...

The economy was fixed under Obama, but Trump claimed it was shit until the second he got into office, at which point he claimed that the positive numbers are now totally true and all because of him. You bet your ass he'll take credit.

 

[Norwegian Rudo]

Yes, this is clearly the undercover agent's fault

Because of course the authorities are going to put anything in the press release that makes it look less than legit. What do you think the initial press coverage of those other cases looked like?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Unfortunately there has been a number of these stories in Europe too.

 

[Nevasleep]

That global network of hate, funding from the Philippines, technical help from Pakistan, for a Canadian citizen.

 

[Weckum]

Yes, this is clearly the undercover agent's fault

Wouldn't be the first time:


https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/

Osmakac was the target of an elaborately orchestrated FBI sting that involved a paid informant, as well as FBI agents and support staff working on the setup for more than three months. The FBI provided all of the weapons seen in Osmakac's martyrdom video. The bureau also gave Osmakac the car bomb he allegedly planned to detonate, and even money for a taxi so he could get to where the FBI needed him to go. Osmakac was a deeply disturbed young man, according to several of the psychiatrists and psychologists who examined him before trial. He became a ”terrorist" only after the FBI provided the means, opportunity and final prodding necessary to make him one.

[...]

But the evidence suggests — and a recent Human Rights Watch report on the subject illustrates — that the FBI isn't always nabbing would-be terrorists so much as setting up mentally ill or economically desperate people to commit crimes they could never have accomplished on their own.

Not saying this was the case this time, but I also wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Khoryos]

They shipped the bomb precursors to the undercover agent?

So it's another case of the intelligence agencies heroically foiling a plot they put together, then.

 

[Marky Mark]

Good intervention that should be applauded.... but no way that plan was going to give them 3,000 dead and 6,000 wounded on par with 9/11.

It's an overblown and frankly unprofessional claim.

It still blows my mind to remember the sheer number of dead in that single attack. I honestly forget over time and then it hits me like a sledgehammer again.

 

[Audioboxer]

Because of course the authorities are going to put anything in the press release that makes it look less than legit. What do you think the initial press coverage of those other cases looked like?

This is court documents, a trial and an individual who pleaded guilty to 7 terror offences. It isn't a press release.

Wouldn't be the first time:


https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/




Not saying this was the case this time, but I also wouldn't be surprised.

I think there is compelling evidence here as well as a trial with an admittance of guilt.

We've just seen one single individual in America get ahold of rifles and kill a load of people. Orlando was one individual with a rifle. I think saying they couldn't obtain guns and shoot and/or make a bomb on their own is grossly negligent to the potential.

Russell Salic, a 37-year-old from the Philippines, is accused of sending money to El Bahnasawy and Haroon to fund the alleged plot.

They were being funded too.

 

[Father_Brain]

They shipped the bomb precursors to the undercover agent?

So it's another case of the intelligence agencies heroically foiling a plot they put together, then.

Yup, just like most "foiled" terrorist plots in recent years.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Bunch of morons. “We just walk in with guns”

 

[Audioboxer]

More here

According to prosecutors, El Bahnasawy began talking with one another -- and the undercover agent -- in the spring of 2016. Over the month of May, they allegedly plotted pledged to carry out a variety of attacks in the city during the Islamic holy month of Ramadam -- that year, from June 6 to July 5 -- or on Memorial Day. They then reached out to Saric, who they called "The Doctor," in May to help finance their plans.

Prosecutors said that Al Bahnasawy and Haroon identified the 7 and 4/5/6 subway lines and Times Square as ideal targets and talked about trapping people inside the Crossroads of the World “and kill as many people as possible.”

Prosecutors added that Al Bahnasawy also communicated with an undercover agent posing as an ISIS sympathizer about wanting to "shoot up concerts cuz they kill lots of people." He also researched upcoming concerts in the city and talked about picking a show in “a concert hall thats far away from cops.”

"We just need guns in our hands," El Bahnasawy said. "That's how the Paris guys did it."

Haroon, meanwhile, told the undercover agent that he saw the subway as a "perfect" target for the attack, and that they should shoot as many train riders as possible before setting off suicide vests.

"When we run out of bullets we let the vests go off," he said.

Prosecutors add that El Bahnasawy bought bomb-making materials while in Canada; Haroon allegedly met with an explosives expert in Pakistan to get more information on how to build bombs.

Around the same time, the two allegedly had been talking with Salic, known as "the doctor," about getting money to carry out the attack. Salic, who also maintained a pro-ISIS social media presence, allegedly wired $423 to the undercover to help pay for the attacks on May 11, 2016, and told the agent he'd send more in the future.

The undercover also sent Salic a picture of hydrogen peroxide El Bahnasawy had bought to carry out the attacks; Salic allegedly responded by saying he might carry out his own attack if he wasn't able to go to Syria to join ISIS. He then allegedly wrote that "(I)t would be a great pleasure if we can slaughter" New Yorkers, according to the complaint.

“The most challenging and difficult decisions that are made in these investigations is finding where the balance is –- between protecting the integrity of the investigation and letting the public know the vital information they need to determine whether or not they feel safe foing to a particular venue,” Klaver said.

Sources familiar with the case said this was not a sting operation, but the FBI and NYPD got onto the lead suspect early on.

Times Square saw a failed car bomb attempt by terrorist Faisal Shahzad and the 2009 Zazi plot was set to be a series of backpack bombings on the subways. The trial of accused Chelsea bomber Ahmad Rahimi is currently underway in lower Manhattan.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investiga...-Las-Vegas-Arrest-Times-Square-449749293.html

 

[fortunato]

They were 3 years old when 9/11 happened.

 

[Kyzer]

3 guys? and they sound like idiots. no way this would have been the next 9/11

Is it really necessary to get technical about this

 

[old manatee]

Keeping an open mind but let's see how much the "Islamic state supporter" who was a fed agent actually helped them along.
Still remember that bust of a nobody where the government suggested the plan supplied the arms dealer, the fake missiles, and then the money when the guy had none.

That's what I thought of too.

 

[Hermii]

This work/investigation was done under Obama's watch, so no credit for Trump.

I'm sure Trump will take credit though...

I doubt the president micro manages these things, or even is briefed about them until the suspect is cought.

 

[Bishop89]

19 yrs old?

Jesus christ...

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

Guys, you're all harshing Audioboxer's buzz over the plots of the perfidious musselman being foiled once again

 

[Audioboxer]

Guys, you're all harshing Audioboxer's buzz over the plots of the perfidious musselman being foiled once again

Well, as a European it is a little surprising seeing some of these responses given even American's can follow the string of attacks we're seeing over here. You have your own, maybe not as frequent as Europe, but aiming to chalk this up to the fault of the intelligence services is completely misguided.

Instead of being content a potential plot was foiled, or individuals with intent were stopped now before they potentially act and you lose lives, we've got misdirection about how it's probably just your intelligence services trying to get people who'd otherwise do nothing to act. Buying bomb-making components, taking money from ISIS members and elaborately talking about venues to attack/places with the most people is a bit beyond shitposting and being hateful on the internet. This may not be high-level intelligence individuals, but you do not need intelligence to aim a gun and pull the trigger. Just enough hate, motivation and the finances/basic planning to go out and do it.

As I said above as well are people in here really going to argue its hard to get guns in America? Especially after what happened just the other day? All you need is some money. At the very least this threat, as well as any others like it stopped, should show everyone why guns need to be regulated better. All the other mass shootings haven't done that though, including Orlando.

I'm British

My mistake, but I still think it's a poor stance to not take these threats with utmost seriousness. Your sarcasm aimed at me is in poor taste.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

Well, as a European it is a little surprising seeing some of these responses given even American's can follow the string of attacks we're seeing over here. You have your own, maybe not as frequent as Europe, but aiming to chalk this up to the fault of the intelligence services is completely misguided.

Instead of being content a potential plot was foiled, or individuals with intent were stopped now before they potentially act and you lose lives, we've got misdirection about how it's probably just your intelligence services trying to get people who'd otherwise do nothing to act. Buying bomb-making components, taking money from ISIS members and elaborately talking about venues to attack/places with the most people is a bit beyond shitposting and being hateful on the internet. This may not be high-level intelligence individuals, but you do not need intelligence to aim a gun and pull the trigger. Just enough hate, motivation and the finances/basic planning to go out and do it.

As I said above as well are people in here really going to argue its hard to get guns in America? Especially after what happened just the other day? All you need is some money. At the very least this threat, as well as any others like it stopped, should show everyone why guns need to be regulated better. All the other mass shootings haven't done that though, including Orlando.

I'm British

 

[this guy are sick]

This sounds more like four lions than the next 9/11 really

 

[krazen]

Well, as a European it is a little surprising seeing some of these responses given even American's can follow the string of attacks we're seeing over here. You have your own, maybe not as frequent as Europe, but aiming to chalk this up to the fault of the intelligence services is completely misguided.

Instead of being content a potential plot was foiled, or individuals with intent were stopped now before they potentially act and you lose lives, we've got misdirection about how it's probably just your intelligence services trying to get people who'd otherwise do nothing to act. Buying bomb-making components, taking money from ISIS members and elaborately talking about venues to attack/places with the most people is a bit beyond shitposting and being hateful on the internet. This may not be high-level intelligence individuals, but you do not need intelligence to aim a gun and pull the trigger. Just enough hate, motivation and the finances/basic planning to go out and do it.

As I said above as well are people in here really going to argue its hard to get guns in America? Especially after what happened just the other day? All you need is some money. At the very least this threat, as well as any others like it stopped, should show everyone why guns need to be regulated better. All the other mass shootings haven't done that though, including Orlando.

The problem is that there’s been a few cases of where the intelligence community has basically framed perpetrators for a “win”. You aren’t going to find anyone at of the end of the day mad that a vicious terror plot got foiled but considering the FBI has become as politicised as any other US org (see their recent statement on “black identity extremists”) we feel forced to take things with a grain of salt. Which sucks, but that’s life now.

 

[LakeEarth]

Good intervention that should be applauded.... but no way that plan was going to give them 3,000 dead and 6,000 wounded on par with 9/11.

It's an overblown and frankly unprofessional claim.

I expected more from them.

 

[talisayNon]

3 guys? and they sound like idiots. no way this would have been the next 9/11

.

 

[BrassDragon]

I expected more from them.

One of the tenants of counter-terrorism, at least as perceived in Europe, is that you don't just foil plots and apprehend suspects but also work hard to preserve the peace and order of society (since you're fighting opponents that aim for maximum disruption.)

Statements like this aren't meant to thump your own chest, they should have a de-escalating and normalizing effect. Comparing small scale interventions to one of the most successful terrorists plots in history, making people even more antsy that a new 9/11 could pop at any moment, is sabotaging your own mission.

 

[Mahonay]

They sounded like 3 dumbasses.

 

[Saren is Bad]

Because of course the authorities are going to put anything in the press release that makes it look less than legit. What do you think the initial press coverage of those other cases looked like?

Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I'll wait for more info. Several of these cases have turned out it's been 99% the undercover guys pushing everybody else into illegal stuff.

Can you, uh, show some receipts for that claim?

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Genuinely baffled at some of the responses here criticizing the intelligence agencies. So what if they helped supply the means for the plot? If these guys were willing to go through with it then I have absolutely no problem with setting them up to get them off the street.

They would have just found another way to inflict mass casualties and terror on the populace.

 

[Kin5290]

Considering how many terrorists are actually known to the police, or reported to cops by people in the community (who frequently are other Muslims who are not terrorists), only to be overlooked or ignored until they execute their plans and kill loads of people, I don't really have a problem with the FBI's actions here.

 

[ChainedMaster]

Genuinely baffled at some of the responses here criticizing the intelligence agencies. So what if they helped supply the means for the plot? If these guys were willing to go through with it then I have absolutely no problem with setting them up to get them off the street.

They would have just found another way to inflict mass casualties and terror on the populace.

People have a problem with it because the government is notorious for entrapment which is illegal and fucked up. Anytime I hear of the FBI foiling some "massive plot" I think entrapment. I don't trust these pricks. They more than likely didn't foil a god damn thing.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Genuinely baffled at some of the responses here criticizing the intelligence agencies. So what if they helped supply the means for the plot? If these guys were willing to go through with it then I have absolutely no problem with setting them up to get them off the street.

They would have just found another way to inflict mass casualties and terror on the populace.

This is NeoGAF, it is to be expected

 

[MIMIC]

Excellent undercover work! But unfortunately, their work never ends.

Another thing: anyone else as stunned by how young those guys were?

 

[ChainedMaster]

Here are sources on why these FBI stings are bullshit.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant

The ex-FBI informant with a change of heart: 'There is no real hunt. It's fixed'

https://news.vice.com/article/the-line-between-fbi-stings-and-entrapment-has-not-blurred-its-gone

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/fbi-isis-terrorism-stings.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots

Lawyers for the so-called Newburgh Four have now launched an appeal that will be held early next year. Advocates hope the case offers the best chance of exposing the issue of FBI "entrapment" in terror cases. "We have as close to a legal entrapment case as I have ever seen," said Susanne Brody, who represents another Newburgh defendant, Onta Williams.

Some experts agree. "The target, the motive, the ideology and the plot were all led by the FBI," said Karen Greenberg, a law professor at Fordham University in New York, who specialises in studying the new FBI tactics.

But the issue is one that stretches far beyond Newburgh. Critics say the FBI is running a sting operation across America, targeting – to a large extent – the Muslim community by luring people into fake terror plots.

 

[zeemumu]

"We seriously need to car bomb Times Square. Look at these crowds of people!"


In other messages, he allegedly expressed a desire to "create the next 9/11" and "shoot up concerts cuz they kill a lot people…we just walk in with guns in our hands".

What the hell is this tone of voice when planning mass murder? They sound so casual and that horrifies me

 

[BrassDragon]

The article is a bit light on details of the operation; 'undercover agent' conjures the image of a deep cover officer but in intelligence circles, 'agent' is the term for any person persuaded to perform an action on behalf of the agency.

It could be a civilian who started as a source and was then prepped and instructed to go along with the plot, becoming an agent.

 

[ChainedMaster]

The article is a bit light on details of the operation; 'undercover agent' conjures the image of a deep cover officer but in intelligence circles, 'agent' is the term for any person persuaded to perform an action on behalf of the agency.

It could be a civilian who started as a source and was then prepped and instructed to go along with the plot, becoming an agent.

Happens all the time. I suggest you read the articles I posted. Especially this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant

These cases are often just FBI-orchestrated terror plots that are done through coaxing Muslims they encouncter at mosques.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Sadly not shocked. Times Square is open but has a ton of cops. But a crowded subway station is an open target where it'd take a while for cops to get in there.