Is there a scene I missed where House Cerwyn agrees to it?
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Is there a scene I missed where House Cerwyn agrees to it?
So he traveled all the way to Bear Island even though he was in a massive hurry to die? You might be right in saying Jon wanted to die but the show didn't portray him in a consistent enough way for that to come through.
I have no idea if House Cerwyn accepted or declined the call but I do know they were at Winterfell soon after the battle (because Sansa/Littlefinger were talking, Jon/Sansa were talking, and Mel/Davos/Jon were talking, conversations that would come soon after the fighting ended). They must have left before the battle started to get there in time (if the show isn't cheating with time) or else they only came after the battle and should therefore never be trusted. The show doesn't answer any of these questions we just have to guess.
They straight up said in the finale that neither house answered the call. Manderly specifically said he didn't answer the call as he didn't want more of his family to "die for nothing." They made it to Winterfell after the battle was won and when it was safe.
I know what they said afterward, I'm just explaining what happened beforehand. House Cerwyn wasn't contacted but they were still reprimanded. The Northern Houses were present at Winterfell soon after the battle ended. I know what the show is saying (No one cared a lick about Jon or Sansa) but that's not actually what happened.
Again, these are small shortcuts and hand waves that don't destroy the story they're telling, but it does show how they struggle to be cohesive. I didn't expect people to defend this scene so fiercely considering how obvious it was the script was wrong in what happened with House Cerwyn. Jon didn't want to take the time to recruit them because he was in a hurry but they were still reprimanded by Lady Mormont.
Shamrock7r
Member
As I understood it they sent Ravens to those houses and those houses didn't answer back or told them no
I think it makes some that the dragon lords used to use magic horns to bind their and other people's dragons to them.
Plus there being no dragon horn pretty much nulls most of the advantage of having Euron on Cersei's side would do.
Euron should be equalizing the sides. Dany's dragons are too OP. There needs to be another dragon and dragon rider on the other side to even the odds
When did they say that Cerwyn wasn't contacted? Did I miss that part?
Sansa, "If we went down to Castle Cerwyn I know that Lord Cerwyn would..."
Jon, "We fight with army we have."
Unless they mentioned something else that I forgot.
Right but it's already been implied that they sent Raven's to these houses and they either have refused or just ignored their call.
They sent ravens to everybody, as Jon notes. Sansa is not saying Cerwyn hasn't been contacted; rather, she's hoping that personal diplomacy might change it.
Cerwyn and Manderly sat out the war. Otherwise, they would have argued with Lyanna. Manderly outright states she's right.
Yeah, maybe. Who knows? I just really feel like they brushed aside logic to make Jon and Sansa's storyline work this season. There's no real impetus for their actions other than following whatever plot has been constructed.
I'm sure they will make great allies going forward then.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820
What a fuckin joke. Jon literally wanted to give Winterfell to her. He's said many times he's not a Stark.
Fuck Sansa. Desperate version of Cersei.
wesleyshark
Banned
Lmao yeah....
TheOctodad
Member
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820
What a fuckin joke. Jon literally wanted to give Winterfell to her. He's said many times he's not a Stark.
Fuck Sansa. Desperate version of Cersei.
Ehh. A little further down in the interview they ask her if Sansa finding out about Jon being a true son of Lyanna would change things and she says she never really thought about that.
This is just the actress interpreting her scenes. I don't think she has much of a pulse on the rest of the story yet. She's almost as blind as we are.
Wouldn't the directors tell her her motivation before she films the scenes?
Having Sansa turn against Jon would be the dumbest move ever. Worse than the Sand Snakes killing Doran.http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820
What a fuckin joke. Jon literally wanted to give Winterfell to her. He's said many times he's not a Stark.
Fuck Sansa. Desperate version of Cersei.
And there needs to be a dragon horn next season. Dany is way too OP with the Tyrells and Martells.
Something is definitely going to interfere with Dany's plans, but I wonder if they'll actually introduce the horn. I've always wondered if book horn actually even works though, and maybe that's why it's never been mentioned on the show.
There's a theory Dragonbinder really turns people into slaves. When it's blown, Damphair readily crowns Euron but afterward (when the blower dies), Damphair hates his brothers. Other people have a similar fate. Seems like a cool theory.
They showed us two house visits, one which resulted in a hard yes, and one a hard no. We don't need to see every visit... They believe the audience can figure it out. In a book that is just a few more pages. On a TV show that is serious money to throw at something that doesn't add much value.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
I am the storm, brother.
*Dany's whole fleet washes away in the storm before making it to King's Landing*
Nah. Dreadfort should be destroyed and any remains of the boltons erased from history.
hey_monkey
Banned
As my husband put it, he could win the war by just running through a city and high-fiving everyone.
wesleyshark
Banned
I am the storm, brother.
When he showed up and said that to Balon, I about died. Such a fantastic delivery.
I guess it is kind of implied, when jon is talking to lord glover and he ask what houses are with the starks, jon says: "house mormont and we've sent ravens to the houses manderly and.." He is interrupted on this part by lord glover saying "I dont care about ravens" obviously jon was about to mention the house cerwyn there, also cerwyns are mentioned along house mormont, manderly and the one with the name of the D&D friend before jon's group leave the wall.
From a practical standpoint, someone needs to govern the lands formerly ruled by the Boltons. The Dreadfort is the most logical place to do that from. Tearing it down and building a replacement doesn't seem like the sort of thing you would do in Westeros, especially with winter having just arrived.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like the high sparrow and faith militant were kind of wasted in the show. Were they ever portrayed as a formidable force? Seemed like they were just a bunch of idiots with spiked clubs and I didn't find it very convincing that they were a threat in the face of the city guard and the Lannister + Tyrell army.
Am I missing the point?
Am I missing the point?
I agree. I feel like it required a certain amount of suspension of disbelief to buy their unopposed rise to power.
Yes. The faith militant's weapons weren't primarily based on military force, but on guilt and manipulation.
You'll notice that every time someone employed a tactic that worked with everyone else, it failed against the high sparrow.
-Olenna threatened to starve the people.
-Jaime threatened to use the Tyrell army.
-Tommen threatened to use his kingsguard.
-Everyone threatened them with their position.
The truth is that they should have been killed, but they were allowed to infiltrate the government, which is a parallel to medieval governments ruling by the fear of god, and intimidation by the church.
Some of it is a bit ridiculous like Margaery being arrested and tortured for lying, but in a theocracy things like that can happen.
The source of their power in the book is the people, and the problem with the people in the show is that they're all really unpleasant and stupid.
Every time we see a commoner, he or she is just cursing or flashing their genitalia. We never get to see how regular people live in the show.
Well, Wildlings need a place to crash. It's interesting how the Dreadort(Boltons), Karhold (Karstarks), and the Last Hearth (Umbers) all border each other and form the mid-eastern part of the North. Boltons deserve to be erased and lands distributed to others, but what about the Karstarks and Umbers in the show?
Charlie0108
Member
The music that plays during that hard cut from the baby to Jon makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up every time I see it. So good.
wesleyshark
Banned
Masterful scene.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
How will they legitimize Jon as the true heir to the throne? It's pretty much Bran's word vs everyone else. Even if someone with some knowledge / power tried to rally behind the idea - there's Dany and her army that would be another issue.
They also had The Kings and the common people's backing.
Just having the common people backing you is a huge amount of power.
I feel like the show has tried to portray this but it gets lost in between all of the scheming, dragons, Jon Snow and explosions. Their portrayals of the common people giving you or taking power are too far and few between.
wesleyshark
Banned
The books will probably use Howland Reed, I'd imagine. For the show... I'm not sure. Howland was at ToJ, but not in that scene with Lyanna. I suppose we could see Ned inform him afterwards- perhaps Bran will have a few more flashback scenes in s7?
The thing here is that Jon's real parentage doesn't matter except as an obstacle for maintaining his power as the King in the North.
King Jon can easily just marry Daenerys and become the King of Westeros that way. There's no need for him to tell people the truth
IggyChooChoo
Member
He'll have to get flamed and emerge unburnt, like Daenerys.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Bran should go back in time and tell himself not to climb the tower so he doesn't become a cripple
hey_monkey
Banned
You know, I make fun of the time skips as much as anyone, but really, it's not as bad as we make it out to be. There are plenty of cues about time passing - like Sansa making those clothes - and people WOULD travel so very slowly that showing things closer to real time would be incredibly boring. Really, the problem isn't folks teleporting (though, still, LOL), but the way they cut things together that can't possibly happen close to one other, but they're choosing narrative over the other (similar to GRRM's wacky timelines in the last two books). I think it would be an interesting experiment to have someone recut a season to be more in order, or even just added some date stamps or something.
TheOctodad
Member
I don't even know if the directors know that much.
She's interpreting she doesn't know. That's my point. It could go either way.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Ah, that's right. He can marry his aunt and become King that way - it was perfectly ok for Targs to marry someone from their own family.
Not all Targs are immune to fire, right? It would be interesting to see if Jon can burn or not.
IggyChooChoo
Member
In the book he burned his hand in a fight with a wight; maybe it'll come back to that somehow.
wesleyshark
Banned
I think the immunity to fire thing is just in the show, yeah? And only with Dany, as she has the blood-ties to her dragons.
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