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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
c0de said:
What do you guys think about the possibility that Aemon knew that Jon is a Targaryen?
This article brought that up last year:
https://winteriscoming.net/2016/08/03/did-anyone-know-about-jon-snows-true-birth/
But as we now know that the citadel knew about it, it's not unlikely, at least to me. It would explain Aemons attention to Jon and could paint a picture of Ned knowing Aemon knows so that his nephew was with one of his kinds.
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Aemon most definitely knew. No way he didnt.
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Yeah, Jaime is going to be shook by the dead, Cersei is going to try to pull some stunt and he's gonna have to kill her.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
c0de said:
What do you guys think about the possibility that Aemon knew that Jon is a Targaryen?
This article brought that up last year:
https://winteriscoming.net/2016/08/03/did-anyone-know-about-jon-snows-true-birth/
But as we now know that the citadel knew about it, it's not unlikely, at least to me. It would explain Aemons attention to Jon and could paint a picture of Ned knowing Aemon knows so that his nephew was with one of his kinds.
Click to expand...

The citadel, or at least one maester, knew about the annulment and second marriage to Lyanna. There's nothing said to indicate that anyone knew about a child, let alone that the child is Jon. I don't think Aemon knew anything.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
I fear cleganebowl with the hound versus zombie mountain would be too awesome for my fanboy heart. I really hope they bring back an other so it can happen.
 
G

gspec

Member
Aemon would not have left to go to the citadel and stayed by Jon side to counsel him. Before he died on the boat to the citadel, he regretted not knowing about Dany sooner. He would have left the night watch to be her maester and counsel her.
 
C

c0de

Member
Hazmat said:
The citadel, or at least one maester, knew about the annulment and second marriage to Lyanna. There's nothing said to indicate that anyone knew about a child, let alone that the child is Jon. I don't think Aemon knew anything.
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The marriage was written down to anyone who had access to the scrolls so yes, saying citadel might be exaggerating but it wasn't a secret. And yes, we don't know if the maester knew about the kid but then the whole reveal last episode wouldn't have any meaning. How would Samwell infer Jon's origin by only knowing about a marriage?
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
SporeCrawler said:
probably because the annulment wasnt widely known.things like that can provoke a war by themselves. imagine martell also joining baratheon, tully, arryn and starks.
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What I meant by "crazy" is just how much would have changed if word got out about the annulment. Dorne has a massive army. If they were against the Targs, would Ellia have become queen? She had a stronger claim than Robert. Who knows?
 
H

Hazmat

Member
c0de said:
The marriage was written down to anyone who had access to the scrolls so yes, saying citadel might be exaggerating but it wasn't a secret. And yes, we don't know if the maester knew about the kid but then the whole reveal last episode wouldn't have any meaning. How would Samwell infer Jon's origin by only knowing about a marriage?
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If it was a well-known thing among the maesters and that they could deduce that Ned Stark's bastard was the legitimate Targaryen heir then Pycelle would have known, and if Pycelle knew he would have told Robert or later Cersei to score points. And that book would have been written decades after Aemon was at the Citadel.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
jfkgoblue said:
Yeah, show only thing... how it fucked it up already
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How is it a fuckup? I think some of the added scenes in the book based seasons were really good.
mantidor said:
thatsthejoke.gif


I wonder if there are any salvageable plotlines now, the Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger crap is abysmal, the wight plan is one of the most stupid things I've heard, and lol at Cersei/Jaime thinking they can hold the throne with an incestuous bastard spawn, but maybe the people of Kings Landing have become that stupid.

I reaaally hope whatever the whitewalkers twist ends up being is really good otherwise there is nothing saving this train wreck.
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jfkgoblue said:
I don't think a single complaint you made here is based on things that actually happened.
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The only thing he was right about was how Jorah doesn't mention Sam to Jon when Jon mentions Jeor. It would've been more fulfilling in this hypothetical scenario if Jorah mentioned his full name Samwell Tarly because with Dany present she could've been like "hm I just burned some of that guy's family."
 
C

c0de

Member
Hazmat said:
If it was a well-known thing among the maesters and that they could deduce that Ned Stark's bastard was the legitimate Targaryen heir then Pycelle would have known, and if Pycelle knew he would have told Robert or later Cersei to score points. And that book would have been written decades after Aemon was at the Citadel.
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I don't say everyone knew or that it was well known. But also of course Aemon was in contact with the citadel so an old friend who knew about the boy could've told him. And again, if The maester didn't know about a child, the reveal last episode wasn't a reveal at all.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
So this is turning into Lord of the Rings now? Also holy smokes the bombs being dropped left an right.
Cersei knows everything anyway, Littlefinger outspies Arya who trained as a stealthy killer, sexual tension between Dany and Jon, the dragons love Jon, who also not only confirmed to be a Targ of course, but also that he isn't a bastard after all.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
The Artisan said:
How is it a fuckup? I think some of the added scenes in the book based seasons were really good.


The only thing he was right about was how Jorah doesn't mention Sam to Jon when Jon mentions Jeor. It would've been more fulfilling in this hypothetical scenario if Jorah mentioned his full name Samwell Tarly because with Dany present she could've been like "hm I just burned some of that guy's family."
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The prophesy said "3 children and golden will be there crowns"

But they decided to include a 4th child and make him a black haired child.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It would be easier for me to sympathize with Jorah constantly getting "friend-zoned" if shooting way out of his league to his own detriment wasn't a straight-up character trait of his.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
c0de said:
I don't say everyone knew or that it was well known. But also of course Aemon was in contact with the citadel so an old friend who knew about the boy could've told him. And again, if The maester didn't know about a child, the reveal last episode wasn't a reveal at all.
Click to expand...

They might reveal more stuff in coming episodes, but all of your reasoning is pure speculation. Nothing that we've seen indicates that anyone alive except for Howland Reed and Bran knows about Jon's parents.
 
K

kirblar

Member
jfkgoblue said:
Cersei isn't actually pregnant, for one the prophesy says that she would have 3 children... wait the show already fucked that up... nvm
Click to expand...
The strong implication of the combination of those two things would be that neither she nor the unborn child is making it out of the series alive.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Meanwhile, over at GRRM’s place...
DHSKYFCXoAAjy5c
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F

Faddy

Banned
c0de said:
The marriage was written down to anyone who had access to the scrolls so yes, saying citadel might be exaggerating but it wasn't a secret. And yes, we don't know if the maester knew about the kid but then the whole reveal last episode wouldn't have any meaning. How would Samwell infer Jon's origin by only knowing about a marriage?
Click to expand...

The whole point of the Citadel has been to show the maesters surrounded by knowledge but they do nothing with it. Too busy writing their own detailed analysis of their own shits to read someone else's.

What are the chances that anyone read that book before Gilly? Or even if they did they never did anything about it. Maybe they assumed the high septon was drunk. They ignored a cure to greyscale for long enough, filed it away and put it on the shelf.

Maester Walken writes to them with a detailed account they rubbish it denigrate him.
 
H

H.Cornerstone

Member
Faddy said:
The whole point of the Citadel has been to show the maesters surrounded by knowledge but they do nothing with it. Too busy writing their own detailed analysis of their own shits to read someone else's.

What are the chances that anyone read that book before Gilly? Or even if they did they never did anything about it. Maybe they assumed the high septon was drunk. They ignored a cure to greyscale for long enough, filed it away and put it on the shelf.

Maester Walken writes to them with a detailed account they rubbish it denigrate him.
Click to expand...

They didn't ignore it. They banned it because it was too dangerous.
 
N

Napalm_Frank

Member
I still can't get over the fact that the other Stark children haven't mentioned Rickon. Does Arya even know he is dead? I'd assume Bran knows even if he doesn't care.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
H.Cornerstone said:
They didn't ignore it. They banned it because it was too dangerous.
Click to expand...

This wasn't one of the books from the forbidden section of the library that Sam steals, it's one of the old books that he has to make a fresh copy of. Sam only took stuff about the white walkers and the Long Night from the locked section of the library.
 
J

JakeD

Member
the history of rhaegar and lyannas marriage is recorded in the citadel but it's been completely ignored because the only maester who knew stuck it in the middle of a detailed recording of bowel movements and pointless facts

thats so perfectly GRRM that i wouldnt be surprised if it ends up being book accurate
 
O

Ocarina_117

Banned
Napalm_Frank said:
I still can't get over the fact that the other Stark children haven't mentioned Rickon. Does Arya even know he is dead? I'd assume Bran knows even if he doesn't care.
Click to expand...
People in the show thread were trying to effectively argue he was acknowledged in silence. Ridiculous.

He's hurried in the crypts. Would have been a nice moment. The stark reunions have really underwhelmed. They should be a event, none have felt like it bar Sansa-Jon.
 
H

H.Cornerstone

Member
Hazmat said:
This wasn't one of the books from the forbidden section of the library that Sam steals, it's one of the old books that he has to make a fresh copy of. Sam only took stuff about the white walkers and the Long Night from the locked section of the library.
Click to expand...

the Archmaester literally says the procedure to cure Greyscale is banned because it is too dangerous and often times led to the person doing the surgery also getting it.

JakeD said:
the history of rhaegar and lyannas marriage is recorded in the citadel but it's been completely ignored because the only maester who knew stuck it in the middle of a detailed recording of bowel movements and pointless facts

thats so perfectly GRRM that i wouldnt be surprised if it ends up being book accurate
Click to expand...

It wasn't the journal of a Maester, it was the journal of the High-Septon.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
JakeD said:
the history of rhaegar and lyannas marriage is recorded in the citadel but it's been completely ignored because the only maester who knew stuck it in the middle of a detailed recording of bowel movements and pointless facts

thats so perfectly GRRM that i wouldnt be surprised if it ends up being book accurate
Click to expand...
It wasn't even from a maester, it was from a High Septon. How much do the maesters care about what the HS would write about? My guess is close to none.

Ocarina_117 said:
People in the show thread were trying to effectively argue he was acknowledged in silence. Ridiculous.

He's hurried in the crypts. Would have been a nice moment. The stark reunions have really underwhelmed. They should be a event, none have felt like it bar Sansa-Jon.
Click to expand...
He should've had a statue next to his father and Arya and Sansa should've acknowledged it in their first scene together.
 
F

Faddy

Banned
Ocarina_117 said:
People in the show thread were trying to effectively argue he was acknowledged in silence. Ridiculous.

He's hurried in the crypts. Would have been a nice moment. The stark reunions have really underwhelmed. They should be a event, none have felt like it bar Sansa-Jon.
Click to expand...

But Rickon was acknowledged in silence. I thought it was pretty obvious with the look on Sansa's face.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
John Dunbar said:
but i would think they would care a ton about the crown prince getting an annulment.
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They would need to read the book first.

Maesters: "Here's a book from the High Septon, throw it on the shelf."

If it was a message sent by raven they would've at least read it.
 
W

Wvrs

Member
I'm ecstatic for book 6, but it's actually been over 6 years since I read the series now (which seems crazy, but it was after I finished the first season -- never imagined when I was 15 that I'd still be waiting for the next one at 22), so I'm going to have to read the whole series again.

I've been thinking about the story of Azor Azhai and Lightbringer, and it got me wondering; what if Lightbringer was just plain old Valyrian steel, albeit the first of its kind? I'm also wondering about the Azor Azhai and other prophecies in general; it seems like the Long Night covered the whole world at some point, and that seems too much work for one man, and that perhaps that just became legend after centuries of oral storytelling. What if there was more than one Last Hero? Maybe 7, given the number's significance in the series (seven kingdoms, faith of the seven, seven kingsguard). The Faith especially, I could see that being born from legends about 7 heroes during the Long Night.

I'm not saying the seven who've ventured out beyond the wall now are the ones who will stop the Long Night this time. But swap a few out for more central characters, all armed with Valryian swords (I think Sam will discover the secret to its creation, and Gendry will be the one to make them), and I could see them together fulfilling the various prophecies. I think the fact that 7 have headed out now is foreshadowing in a sense.
 
O

Ocarina_117

Banned
Faddy said:
But Rickon was acknowledged in silence. I thought it was pretty obvious with the look on Sansa's face.
Click to expand...

She says Bran's home too. I felt the silence and look of concern on Sansa and Arya's faces was indicating Bran isn't really Bran anymore. It was clear, to me at least, that is what the show was trying to convey. I also feel if they really wanted to acknowledge Rickon they could have shown his tomb next to Ned or do anything meaningful, really.



Whilst on the topic of Rickon, what role do people think he'll play in the story later on? I felt he'd have been a character to benefit from a time skip and return with a new perspective.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
Ocarina_117 said:
She says Bran's home too. I felt the silence and look of concern on Sansa and Arya's faces was indicating Bran isn't really Bran anymore. It was clear, to me at least, that is what the show was trying to convey. I also feel if they really wanted to acknowledge Rickon they could have shown his tomb next to Ned or do anything meaningful, really.



Whilst on the topic of Rickon, what role do people think he'll play in the story later on? I felt he'd have been a character to benefit from a time skip and return with a new perspective.
Click to expand...
His dog is named shaggydog. His story is supposed to be irrelevant and pointless.
 
F

Faddy

Banned
Ocarina_117 said:
She says Bran's home too. I felt the silence and look of concern on Sansa and Arya's faces was indicating Bran isn't really Bran anymore. It was clear, to me at least, that is what the show was trying to convey. I also feel if they really wanted to acknowledge Rickon they could have shown his tomb next to Ned or do anything meaningful, really.



Whilst on the topic of Rickon, what role do people think he'll play in the story later on? I felt he'd have been a character to benefit from a time skip and return with a new perspective.
Click to expand...

I thought it was clear that Arya was waiting for Sansa to say something about Rickon but only got silence and that is when she knew he was dead.

Rickon will play the role of keeping Davos away from Stannis' impending failure at Winterfell
 
Y

yunbuns

Member
I feel like the show is going to paint Rhaegar and Lyanna as tragic lovers despite the fact that Rhaegar left his sick wife, proceeded to make his own children bastards by marrying someone else, and then left them with his crazy ass dad.
 
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